Dyslexic and Gifted questions (long)

[Storm Bay]

Here I am, back again after a 3 year hiatus. My ds, who I use to post about on the old boards, is the one I'm writing about. I'm not sure who is still here from then, so I'll sum up and then ask my question.

 

Ds had low muscle tone as a baby and was behind in everything at 13 months. He was caught up in all but speech by 2, and caught up in speech by 2.5. He as always been behind in his fine motor skills, which we have addressed, but he doesn't have dysgraphia based on what I've read, or if he does, it's relatively mild.

 

When he was 5 and not ready to read, I took suggestions from the old boards and tested him for dyslexia. He didn't have any of the signs I was looking for. He did learn to read, and although he was behind in this until 8, once we patched his eye (his left one because his right eye was the lazy one) he started catching up within two weeks, and in two months was 4-5 grades ahead in reading, although he has only found a few fiction books he likes, and all in the past year or so.

 

However, based on some things I've been noticing, I have recently been working to find out how to teach him better. In this search I have realized that not only is he a very auditory learner in many areas (but not all) he has enough dyslexic traits to make a cluster, even though he can read. He spelling is horrible, among other things, and he fits that profile perfectly.

 

He fits the math profile on this site http://www.dys-add.com/symptoms.html#dysgraphia he is gifted in math, but has these challenges

 

He had a lot of trouble with writing b p d q (it was my eldest who pointed out that they all look the same, as to me they're different) as well as u and n for quite some time, although that was mainly in writing, not in so much in reading. He no longer reverses letters, but he did even when he was 8, I think. It definitely took him the longest to get over it.

 

He has parts of some of the other things, especially the part about the face clock.

 

I have some suggestions for learning spelling as an auditory learner, but after reading this, I'm leaning to an orton-gillingham based system to help him with spelling, for sure. He can visualize what he reads very well apparently (he just refused to listen to a recorded book while reading because it would interfere with the character voices he think in his head while reading and he says he pictures the action, however, he had trouble with reading comprehension testing.) I'd like to help him express what he reads and comprehend it. He has no trouble at all comprehending and expressing stories he hears.

 

Would the Barton Reading and Spelling system help a 10 yo with spelling, comprehending better when he reads silently and things like this? If not, what might be better? I can't afford a tutor and need something we can do at home.

Edited March 4, 2011 by Karin

[LizzyBee]

I would suggest you call Susan Barton and discuss whether Barton is a good fit. She is very knowledgeable and helpful.

 

That said, since your son is already reading, All About Spelling might work for him. It's not as thorough as Barton, but often a kid who's already reading doesn't need something as intense as Barton.

[merry gardens]

Here I am, back again after a 3 year hiatus. My ds, who I use to post about on the old boards, is the one I'm writing about. I'm not sure who is still here from then, so I'll sum up and then ask my question.

 

Ds had low muscle tone as a baby and was behind in everything at 13 months. He was caught up in all but speech by 2, and caught up in speech by 2.5. He as always been behind in his fine motor skills, which we have addressed, but he doesn't have dysgraphia based on what I've read, or if he does, it's relatively mild.

 

When he was 5 and not ready to read, I took suggestions from he old boards and tested him for dyslexia. He didn't have any of the signs I was looking for. He did learn to read, and although he was behind in this until 8, once we patched his eye (his left one because his right eye was the lazy one) he started catching up within two weeks, and in two months was 4-5 grades ahead in reading, although he has only found a few fiction books he likes, and all in the past year or so.

 

However, based on some things I've been noticing, I have recently been working to find out how to teach him better. In this search I have realized that not only is he a very auditory learner in many areas (but not all) he has enough dyslexic traits to make a cluster, even though he can read. He spelling is horrible, among other things, and he fits that profile perfectly.

 

He fits the math profile on this site http://www.dys-add.com/symptoms.html#dysgraphia he is gifted in math, but has these challenges

 

He had a lot of trouble with writing b p d q (it was my eldest who pointed out that they all look the same, as to me they're different) as well as u and n for quite some time, although that was mainly in writing, not in so much in reading. He no longer reverses letters, but he did even when he was 8, I think. It definitely took him the longest to get over it.

 

He has parts of some of the other things, especially the part about the face clock.

 

I have some suggestions for learning spelling as an auditory learner, but after reading this, I'm leaning to an orton-gillingham based system to help him with spelling, for sure. He can visualize what he reads very well apparently (he just refused to listen to a recorded book while reading because it would interfere with the character voices he think in his head while reading and he says he pictures the action, however, he had trouble with reading comprehension testing.) I'd like to help him express what he reads and comprehend it. He has no trouble at all comprehending and expressing stories he hears.

 

Would the Barton Reading and Spelling system help a 10 yo with spelling, comprehending better when he reads silently and things like this? If not, what might be better? I can't afford a tutor and need something we can do at home.

Hi Karin, I think I read some of your old posts when I was new to this board.

 

Lizzy's suggestion to call Barton Reading and spelling is great. I use the Barton program and think it's wonderful. I bought it primarily for my child who had serious difficulties learning to read, but I'm also using it my other children who can read but who struggle at spelling. It helps with spelling too. Since cost is a concern, keep that in mind that compared to most spelling programs, Barton is an expensive program, (but it's still typically cheaper than a tutor.) I would think Barton could do what you hope it would do. I wouldn't have bought it for my readers who spell poorly, but I'm very glad to have it for them. :)

 

Another thing I'm doing with my poor spellers who can read, (besides Barton) is we are going through a list of the 1,000 most commonly used English words. I'm making sure they learn how to spell all theose common words and in the case of words that sound the same, which spelling when, (Like they're, there, or their). We go through the list and I test them, and then any they didn't know (or weren't sure about even if they go them right) I put on their spelling lists. Between the Barton's and the common words list individualized spelling tests, I hope to see some significant improvements on the spelling section of our standardized tests this year.

 

As to your son's reading comprehension tests...if he's picturing while he reads, but still had a problem with reading comprehension on a test, I wonder if he might have had problems with reading all the words accurately on that test? Bright and gifted people can often guess at words in context accurately, especially if they can read most of the other words in the story and are familiar with the subject matter. However, misreading (or guessing wong at) an unfamiliar word or two, can sometimes change the entire meaning of a story.

 

I don't remember where, but there are lists available somewhere with nonsense words to test if a child is able to de-code unfamiliar words accurately. Something like that might help you find out if his de-coding is a problem. If de-coding non-sense words is a problem, then he isn't able to read unfamiliar words--and that might help explain what happened on the test with his reading comprehension scores.

[ElizabethB]

Here is a nonsense word test:

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/newelizabethian.html

 

Have you had his vision tested? (covd type, not normal vision.)

 

A cheap alternative to Barton may be AAS with "Recipe for Reading" to get additional OG ideas. I would add in "Spelling Plus" with "Spelling Dictation," they are well designed books that focus on the most frequent 1,000 words. (I like them for spelling! It's beginning reading as wholes that I object to them.)

 

If he has trouble with the nonsense words, I suggest my online phonics lessons and "We All Can Read, 3rd grade and Above."

 

My students who are good at math appreciate these charts, they have percentages for each sound. I would let him use them for a while, then have him memorize some of the frequencies after he gets the hang of using the charts as a reference.

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/Phonics%20Lsns/phonogramsoundch.html

 

Also, my spelling and syllable division rules may help, they are linked at the end of my how to tutor page.

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/howtotutor.html

 

You could also try Webster's Speller. The syllables function as nonsense words.

Edited March 3, 2011 by ElizabethB

[PeterPan]

To me, you're saying a lot of things that are eyes. I would get his eyes checked by a developmental optometrist. Your patching may not have solved everything. http://www.covd.org The eyes move with MUSCLES remember. I read somewhere that by mid-20's most people with low tone will have opthamalogically diagnosable eye problems (peripheral vision, focusing, etc.). There's just no reason to assume there isn't. My dd couldn't cross her eyes, something I didn't even realize before we started. It's not exactly one of those things you ask of your kid, lol.

 

When you have the eyes fixed, then you improve the visual processing. Once the visual processing is in place, then you have a foundation upon which to build that Barton or AAS or whatever. Without fixing the eyes and visual processing, everything else just is shaky and doesn't stick quite right, btdt.

 

Barton has a pre-test on their website you can do for free. Really though, if your budget is tight, have you at least looked at WRTR? It might be at your local library, and it would give you a start. It's not the whole thing. But if you learn the basics, then you can start seeing what Barton, AAS, etc. add, what you can do for yourself, which level of help he needs, etc. But really, I'd start by getting those eyes checked.

[Storm Bay]

I would suggest you call Susan Barton and discuss whether Barton is a good fit. She is very knowledgeable and helpful.

 

That said, since your son is already reading, All About Spelling might work for him. It's not as thorough as Barton, but often a kid who's already reading doesn't need something as intense as Barton.

 

Thanks--someone else recommended AAS before I figured out possible this other stuff.

 

Hi Karin, I think I read some of your old posts when I was new to this board.

 

As to your son's reading comprehension tests...if he's picturing while he reads, but still had a problem with reading comprehension on a test, I wonder if he might have had problems with reading all the words accurately on that test? Bright and gifted people can often guess at words in context accurately, especially if they can read most of the other words in the story and are familiar with the subject matter. However, misreading (or guessing wong at) an unfamiliar word or two, can sometimes change the entire meaning of a story.

.

 

Thanks, you may be right about this.

Here is a nonsense word test:

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/newelizabethian.html

 

Have you had his vision tested? (covd type, not normal vision.)

 

A cheap alternative to Barton may be AAS with "Recipe for Reading" to get additional OG ideas. I would add in "Spelling Plus" with "Spelling Dictation," they are well designed books that focus on the most frequent 1,000 words. (I like them for spelling! It's beginning reading as wholes that I object to them.)

 

.

 

Thanks! I'm going to look at all of those links and at that cheaper alternative, also about the eyes, I'll answer below.

 

To me, you're saying a lot of things that are eyes. I would get his eyes checked by a developmental optometrist. Your patching may not have solved everything. www.covd.org The eyes move with MUSCLES remember. I read somewhere that by mid-20's most people with low tone will have opthamalogically diagnosable eye problems (peripheral vision, focusing, etc.). There's just no reason to assume there isn't. My dd couldn't cross her eyes, something I didn't even realize before we started. It's not exactly one of those things you ask of your kid, lol.

 

 

Barton has a pre-test on their website you can do for free. Really though, if your budget is tight, have you at least looked at WRTR? It might be at your local library, and it would give you a start. It's not the whole thing. But if you learn the basics, then you can start seeing what Barton, AAS, etc. add, what you can do for yourself, which level of help he needs, etc. But really, I'd start by getting those eyes checked.

 

Thank you. I will do the pretest and I'll see about getting his eyes properly checked. This is the first time I remember hearing about a link between low muscle tone and these eye problems. What is WTRT?

[PeterPan]

WRTR=Writing Road to Reading. By Spalding, who studied with OG. So there are lots and lots of programs that keep spinning off the OG ideas: SWR, WRTR, AAS, Barton. They're all sort of in that flavor and family, with each bringing particular strengths. The greatest virtue of WRTR is that it's extremely inexpensive (under $20 on amazon) and often at your local library. If you just want to learn the jist, it's a good place to start. Then you'll start seeing the nuances that the other programs (Barton, AAS, etc.) bring you. For instance Barton and AAS do a much better job with syllabification than SWR or WRTR. The programs all have differences in pacing, level of detail, etc.

 

Just remember, on those eyes you want a developmental optometrist. A regular optometrist only screens and may blow it off. A developmental optometrist will go much further in looking at how the eyes are working together. They'll have more tools and may even have things like a visagraph (infrared goggles to track eye movements with reading).

[Storm Bay]

WRTR=Writing Road to Reading. By Spalding, who studied with OG. So there are lots and lots of programs that keep spinning off the OG ideas: SWR, WRTR, AAS, Barton. They're all sort of in that flavor and family, with each bringing particular strengths. The greatest virtue of WRTR is that it's extremely inexpensive (under $20 on amazon) and often at your local library. If you just want to learn the jist, it's a good place to start. Then you'll start seeing the nuances that the other programs (Barton, AAS, etc.) bring you. For instance Barton and AAS do a much better job with syllabification than SWR or WRTR. The programs all have differences in pacing, level of detail, etc.

 

Just remember, on those eyes you want a developmental optometrist. A regular optometrist only screens and may blow it off. A developmental optometrist will go much further in looking at how the eyes are working together. They'll have more tools and may even have things like a visagraph (infrared goggles to track eye movements with reading).

 

Thanks. I've gone to the link you gave me, and there are two listed there within 25 miles of me (none within 10 miles). My insurance won't pick this up for sure (we have a deductible, and even then it might not count, but I'm going to find out, because it's always cheaper to have them say no and tell us what they allow than to pay what is actually charged). I'm going to call them and see if I can get an appointment and then see if our pediatrician will give us a referral if it will be covered.

[EKS]

Have you looked at The Mislabeled Child by Brock and Fernette Eide? The Eides are experts in the field of dyslexia in gifted individuals. If you google them you will also find lots of things online about this topic.

[Storm Bay]

Have you looked at The Mislabeled Child by Brock and Fernette Eide? The Eides are experts in the field of dyslexia in gifted individuals. If you google them you will also find lots of things online about this topic.

 

Thanks, Kai, I just put a hold on it on our library site.

[Storm Bay]

We have an appointment with an optometrist I found on the COVD site. The first visit is going to be covered, but the eye plan our med insurance uses won't cover vision therapy. They can't bill our regular insuance, either, because the doctor is an optometrist. Our normal eye doctor happens to be an opthamologist, which comes in handy when we need to have more exams than our insurance allows because we can get referrals from the ped. There were only 2 people on the site within 25 miles of us,and the other one is very good but also very expensive. She's also farther away and ds wants to have only male doctors. My sister is an MD, but he's like this, anyway, perhaps because our ped is a man.

[Storm Bay]

A cheap alternative to Barton may be AAS with "Recipe for Reading" to get additional OG ideas. I would add in "Spelling Plus" with "Spelling Dictation," they are well designed books that focus on the most frequent 1,000 words. (I like them for spelling! It's beginning reading as wholes that I object to them.)

 

.

 

Do you think tha if I use AAS and WTWR I could use Spelling Power to Supplement? I only ask because I own it and it worked well for my eldest, who is a natural speller. If not, I could finally sell Spelling Power.

[PeterPan]

Our insurance doesn't cover eye stuff at all, but they covered one block (month) of the VT. I don't know how that happened, but they did. Like you say, we gave them the info and the VT people put it through. It got us a cut rate even though we still had to pay for it (under deductible). Your VT place should be able to tell you what they can typically get covered with your particular insurance. Ours was pretty upfront about it.

 

Of course you can sell Spelling Power, mercy. You don't need AAS *and* WRTR. I was merely suggesting WRTR as something you could find at the library for free to do some learning. You can fiddle with it and decide if that's enough or whether you need a curriculum with more bells and whistles.

[siloam]

Do you think tha if I use AAS and WTWR I could use Spelling Power to Supplement? I only ask because I own it and it worked well for my eldest, who is a natural speller. If not, I could finally sell Spelling Power.

I wouldn't recommend you do WRTR with a dyslexic child. They are often easily overwhelmed. You can modify the program to be more incremental, but the way it is written you cover all the phonograms and all the spelling rules from day 1. That is a lot of information for a dyslexic to take in. Practically I find that they tend to memorize all the information but they have problems applying it consistently, especially out side of formal spelling time.

 

I also wouldn't recommend Spelling Power, because it is generally accepted that it works best with natural spellers, and this child is not.

 

AAS isn't cheap but it would be my first recommendation. If you really can't pull that off I would go with Recipe for Reading to set your pace and then you just cover each level to mastery, and include a lot of review.

 

Barton would be ideal, but it sounds like it might also be more than he needs. 50% of the time is spent on spelling, and 50% on reading. Of that 50% of the time the work with real words and about 50% of the time with nonsense words to break guessing habits and force them to apply rules. The one down side I see in AAS is the lack of nonsense words. Eventually I hope to put together nonsense word lists to go with AAS, but I haven't had the time yet. I just make it up as I go. But if he is beyond having letter confusion, b/d, p/q, n/m/u confusion, is not guessing and is reading well, then 50% of Barton is covering material he already has down.

 

On the visualization issues. Have you asked him if he actually sees letters in his mind? I can visualize well, and hear voices like he does, but I didn't see letters or words at all. I have had to use Seeing Stars with two of my children to develop the ability. Also on the comprehension side, while I do visualize well with fiction, I don't with non fiction. Also I tend to focus on the big picture action and not the fine details, which can cause comprehension problems. I am just focused on what happened and not where, who (as in exact name), what they were wearing or even exactly what they did. I can also add to it if I am really into it or fill in with my favorite color, setting or character, and you can guess how unhelpful that is. :rolleyes:

 

Heather

[Storm Bay]

Our insurance doesn't cover eye stuff at all, but they covered one block (month) of the VT. I don't know how that happened, but they did. Like you say, we gave them the info and the VT people put it through. It got us a cut rate even though we still had to pay for it (under deductible). Your VT place should be able to tell you what they can typically get covered with your particular insurance. Ours was pretty upfront about it.

 

Of course you can sell Spelling Power, mercy. You don't need AAS *and* WRTR. I was merely suggesting WRTR as something you could find at the library for free to do some learning..

Yes, the doctor's office was very upfront about what our eye insurance would cover, although they'll try to get therapy if ds needs it. If we had state insurance, eye therapy would be covered, but we make too much money for that (you have to have a very low income to qualify.) Okay, I'll look for WRTR at the library to learn and keep AAS on my list of possibilities.

 

I wouldn't recommend you do WRTR with a dyslexic child. They are often easily overwhelmed. You can modify the program to be more incremental, but the way it is written you cover all the phonograms and all the spelling rules from day 1. That is a lot of information for a dyslexic to take in. Practically I find that they tend to memorize all the information but they have problems applying it consistently, especially out side of formal spelling time.

Good to know

 

I also wouldn't recommend Spelling Power, because it is generally accepted that it works best with natural spellers, and this child is not.

Right, which is why we've only ever stuck with it for my eldest, who is a natural speller. I've tried quite a few spelling programs with ds, but not AAS.

 

AAS isn't cheap but it would be my first recommendation. If you really can't pull that off I would go with Recipe for Reading to set your pace and then you just cover each level to mastery, and include a lot of review.

 

Barton would be ideal, but it sounds like it might also be more than he needs. 50% of the time is spent on spelling, and 50% on reading. Of that 50% of the time the work with real words and about 50% of the time with nonsense words to break guessing habits and force them to apply rules. The one down side I see in AAS is the lack of nonsense words.

What is the advantage of nonsense words? Is that to keep dc from guessing?

On the visualization issues. Have you asked him if he actually sees letters in his mind? I can visualize well, and hear voices like he does, but I didn't see letters or words at all. I have had to use Seeing Stars with two of my children to develop the ability. Also on the comprehension side, while I do visualize well with fiction, I don't with non fiction. Also I tend to focus on the big picture action and not the fine details, which can cause comprehension problems. I am just focused on what happened and not where, who (as in exact name), what they were wearing or even exactly what they did. I can also add to it if I am really into it or fill in with my favorite color, setting or character, and you can guess how unhelpful that is. :rolleyes:

 

Heather

 

Thanks. I just asked him, and he doesn't visualize letters. He learned to read numerals before letters (he's mathy), and didn't learn to count until we did two days of Brain Gym years ago. We had to stop Brain Gym at the time due to the silliness of my middle dd, but I may start that again as part of everything else we're doing. He also found learning to read note values much easier than letters. We haven't been consistent with music, but he has no trouble learning to read that. So, Seeing Stars is going to stay on my list.

 

He's reading Redwall at the moment, and refuses to read and listen at the same time, so he's reading two chapters (they are short) and then listening to an unabridged recording right afterward. I haven't yet checked his comprehension because he's doing this for fun, but I did order a study guide for it (he got to choose which book and we'd just started it.)

 

ETA Seeing Stars--do you have to go to them for tutoring or can you do this yourself? The kit is very expensive, and I saw used books only on Amazon. I don't see why I'd need all of the kit since he knows the phonics rules, etc.

 

Before I shop, I'm going to wait until he sees the COVD optometrist and see what he says. The first financial priority would be vision therapy if he needs it. AAS perhaps next. Also, how would I know which level of AAS to get? Is there a placement test?

Edited March 4, 2011 by Karin

[PeterPan]

If he needs VT, they will probably work on visualization during the visual processing stage. My dd had the vision problems, which had affected her visual processing. So the vision (convergence, focusing, etc.), then go back and rebuild the visual processing that should have been there. For some kids that processing kicks in, just by getting the eyes back to working together. For others, they have to go through therapy for that aspect too. The next step then is to ponder how they're processing the information they receive daily, in their school work, etc. For instance my dd is a visual learner, but because her visual processing is weaker and takes more effort, she has deferred to auditory processing. So it's like she wasn't even taking in and processing the info with her best modality, if that makes sense.

 

The VT place will help you sort all that out and determine if he even has issues. I just say all that to explain why things might seem so confusing or contradictory to you, because they very well might be. :)

 

You start AAS at the beginning, sorry.

[siloam]

What is the advantage of nonsense words? Is that to keep dc from guessing?

 

Both to keep the child from guessing and to force them to apply the rules. Dyslexic's are notorious for guessing based on the shape of the word, and the first few letters, which is why, as ridiculous as it sounds, I read Nicholas as Nicholatte till I discussed the book with my dh and he discovered my error. I was about 30 at the time. :blush:

 

Also with rules they can often appear to get them because they can apply them with real words. Given them a nonsense words and you figure out if they really understand the rule or if they are just scraping by based on what they can read.

 

Thanks. I just asked him, and he doesn't visualize letters. He learned to read numerals before letters (he's mathy), and didn't learn to count until we did two days of Brain Gym years ago. We had to stop Brain Gym at the time due to the silliness of my middle dd, but I may start that again as part of everything else we're doing. He also found learning to read note values much easier than letters. We haven't been consistent with music, but he has no trouble learning to read that. So, Seeing Stars is going to stay on my list.

 

He's reading Redwall at the moment, and refuses to read and listen at the same time, so he's reading two chapters (they are short) and then listening to an unabridged recording right afterward. I haven't yet checked his comprehension because he's doing this for fun, but I did order a study guide for it (he got to choose which book and we'd just started it.)

 

ETA Seeing Stars--do you have to go to them for tutoring or can you do this yourself?

I am doing the Seeing Stars work myself (and developing the ability myself at the same time). It isn't that difficult. I add the Seeing Stars work to our AAS. Seeing Stars as a package is an o/g learning to read program. It isn't used much because while they have scripted examples of what to do they leave what exactly you cover, the pace and review totally in your hands. They do provide lists of words to pull from, but again you have to decide which to use when and such. Most mom's would rather buy something more structured.

 

Heather

[Shay]

Have you by chance looked at Wilson's "newish" program called "Just Words" ? It is OG and they have taken the regular Wilson program and have extracted just the word study portion.

 

http://justwords.com/

 

I've never used this, but it looks interesting. I read somewhere that it is a 1.5 year program when used regularly.

[merry gardens]

Yes, the doctor's office was very upfront about what our eye insurance would cover, although they'll try to get therapy if ds needs it. If we had state insurance, eye therapy would be covered, but we make too much money for that (you have to have a very low income to qualify.) Okay, I'll look for WRTR at the library to learn and keep AAS on my list of possibilities.

 

 

Good to know

 

 

Right, which is why we've only ever stuck with it for my eldest, who is a natural speller. I've tried quite a few spelling programs with ds, but not AAS.

 

 

What is the advantage of nonsense words? Is that to keep dc from guessing?

 

 

Thanks. I just asked him, and he doesn't visualize letters. He learned to read numerals before letters (he's mathy), and didn't learn to count until we did two days of Brain Gym years ago. We had to stop Brain Gym at the time due to the silliness of my middle dd, but I may start that again as part of everything else we're doing. He also found learning to read note values much easier than letters. We haven't been consistent with music, but he has no trouble learning to read that. So, Seeing Stars is going to stay on my list.

 

He's reading Redwall at the moment, and refuses to read and listen at the same time, so he's reading two chapters (they are short) and then listening to an unabridged recording right afterward. I haven't yet checked his comprehension because he's doing this for fun, but I did order a study guide for it (he got to choose which book and we'd just started it.)

 

ETA Seeing Stars--do you have to go to them for tutoring or can you do this yourself? The kit is very expensive, and I saw used books only on Amazon. I don't see why I'd need all of the kit since he knows the phonics rules, etc.

 

Before I shop, I'm going to wait until he sees the COVD optometrist and see what he says. The first financial priority would be vision therapy if he needs it. AAS perhaps next. Also, how would I know which level of AAS to get? Is there a placement test?

Off topic, but just started reading Redwall outloud to my children last week. I only recently learned of the series. So far, we all love it! Now back to our regularly scheduled thread topic....

 

Yes, one advantage to nonsense words is both that it minimizes guessing, but there's more. Many people with dyslexia recognize a large number of words by sight--and a bright person is likely to have the ability to know a very large number of sight words. Nonsense words are used to teach the phonics rules to sound out words, and they can't be "read" just from memory.

 

Seeing Stars includes nonsense words. I'm using portions of that program. A bright homeschool mom could probably do it with the manual and perhaps a few of their other materials. Gander Publishing sells individual components of the Lindamood-Bell programs. We use the workbooks, but those are probably below your son's level. Seeing Stars teaches not just the phonics rules, through nonsense words and real words, but it also places a fair amount of emphasis on common words that all good readers and spellers should know hwo to read and spell quickly. It calls them "Star Words". Their Star Word List of the 1,000 most common words is what I'm using with my other not-so-good spellers who can read. I believe their emphasis on sight words is a little different approach than Orton-Gillingham programs.

 

As I mentioned earlier, I'm also doing Barton with poor spellers who can read. While Barton does divide the lessons about 50% reading and 50% spelling, my readers don't take nearly 50% of the time for reading. It's probably under 25% of the time. We go through the reading very rapidly, (unless we've hit a problem area.) Most of time we spend on spelling. The child for whom I really bought these programs takes significantly longer to get through each lesson with both the reading and the spelling.

 

There are several good programs out there. I hope you find some you like and can afford that will help your son. :)

Edited March 5, 2011 by merry gardens

[Storm Bay]

If he needs VT, they will probably work on visualization during the visual processing stage. My dd had the vision problems, which had affected her visual processing.

The VT place will help you sort all that out and determine if he even has issues. I just say all that to explain why things might seem so confusing or contradictory to you, because they very well might be. :)

 

You start AAS at the beginning, sorry.

 

Thanks. I will wait, then until after the first appointment for sure; no need to pay for the same thing twice if I don't have to.

 

I am doing the Seeing Stars work myself (and developing the ability myself at the same time). It isn't that difficult. I add the Seeing Stars work to our AAS. Seeing Stars as a package is an o/g learning to read program.

Heather

 

Thanks. He did master phonics to the point of spelling phonetically, but I do know he guesses sometimes because he doesn't want to read slowly. Again, his sisters read like Philadelphia lawyers, so he's comparing himself with them. He also makes mistakes using phonics for names that might follow different rules from other languages, etc.

 

Have you by chance looked at Wilson's "newish" program called "Just Words" ? It is OG and they have taken the regular Wilson program and have extracted just the word study portion.

 

http://justwords.com/

 

I've never used this, but it looks interesting. I read somewhere that it is a 1.5 year program when used regularly.

 

Thanks, I'm going to check it out, too.

 

Yes, one advantage to nonsense words is both that it minimizes guessing, but there's more. Many people with dyslexia recognize a large number of words by sight--and a bright person is likely to have the ability to know a very large number of sight words. Nonsense words are used to teach the phonics rules to sound out words, and they can't be "read" just from memory.

 

Seeing Stars includes nonsense words. I'm using portions of that program. A bright homeschool mom could probably do it with the manual and perhaps a few of their other materials. Gander Publishing sells individual components of the Lindamood-Bell programs. We use the workbooks, but those are probably below your son's level. Seeing Stars teaches not just the phonics rules, through nonsense words and real words, but it also places a fair amount of emphasis on common words that all good readers and spellers should know hwo to read and spell quickly. It calls them "Star Words". Their Star Word List of the 1,000 most common words is what I'm using with my other not-so-good spellers who can read. I believe their emphasis on sight words is a little different approach than Orton-Gillingham programs.

 

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. :)

Thanks. He reads far better than he spells, but I'm not sure that he takes the time to be careful when he reads for fun.

[PeterPan]

How do Philadelphia lawyers read? I haven't heard that one, lol.

[Storm Bay]

How do Philadelphia lawyers read? I haven't heard that one, lol.

I heard that one from my sister's mil who is a school teacher who once said that one of my nephew's read like one. Since my dd's do the same, I interpret it to mean well, with good speed, dynamics, etc.:001_smile: I'd never heard it before she said it, but liked it.

[homemomandnild]

Check into www.nild.net as well.

[Storm Bay]

Check into www.nild.net as well.

Thanks--I've saved that the the folder I have for this topic.