sleepymommy Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 I'm ready to pull my hair out with this section. Ds6 has had problems with it from the start and after a few really difficult days I backed off and we didn't do MM for a week or two and the came back to it. This usually works for us but not this time. I've worked the problems through with him, I've drawn examples on the whiteboard, I've used various manipulatives to show the problems and he gets it for that problem and then doesn't get it for the very next one.:willy_nilly: This happens over and over again! He can give me the answer but has no idea how to write the equation for it, NO MATTER HOW MANY TIMES I SHOW HIM. And the whole "Ask yourself if your looking for the total or How many more." question throws him off too. He's good at answering equations that are already there for him but can not figure out the best way to formulate his own. Please tell me what to do. Should I just skip all of these all together, should I just keep going over it and over it until my brain explodes, or any other suggestions?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veritaserum Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 I would use manipulatives for every problem for awhile. We use base ten blocks when dd6 needs to see why the answer is what it is. I'm sorry you're so frustrated. :grouphug: Hopefully some other moms will have some good ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boscopup Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 I agree, continue to use manipulatives for EVERY one of those problems until you can see that he understands it, then try taking the manipulatives away. Also, maybe practice outside of those problems with some real life objects, like "We have 5 bananas and 3 apples... How many more bananas do we have?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momling Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 I'd skip it for now and come back to it at the end of the semester. A 6 year-old's brain isn't always ready for all types of math (like telling time or having a good understanding of money), and sometimes ideas just need time to take hold. I'd just set it aside and try again later - I'll bet he has no trouble in a few months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleepymommy Posted January 29, 2011 Author Share Posted January 29, 2011 Okay, I think I might back off again for awhile and then revisit and use the manipulatives every time. Also, maybe practice outside of those problems with some real life objects, like "We have 5 bananas and 3 apples... How many more bananas do we have?" He actually does pretty good in real life settings, it's just the whole equation thing that he can't really seem to wrap his head around. For example today he was asking for a dog again (this has been ongoing for 3 yrs) and he asked "when I'm 8 and "little brother" is 6, can we get a dog?" My answer was "maybe when your 10 and your brother is 8." He immediately came back with "WHAT!?, that's 4 years away!" I'm happy that he can do the calculating like that in his head for real life stuff and I guess that's where it really matters anyway. I guess I just let my frustration with getting the bookwork done get the best of me. It is so nice to be able to come on this board and regain my perspective! Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mothergooseof4 Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 My 6yo dd didn't get those problems either. She gets all of the other word problems and can do the equations for them. But, ever one of the "how many more" problems were an issue. We used different items and she still didn't get it. I will revisit it later this spring. But, don't panic, it will come up again. It is not going to hurt him if he doesn't master this one issue this year. Especially since he can do it in his head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyforlatin Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 We have the same exact problem here! It's not just MM - we also use Singapore CWP, so we get a double-dose of those dreaded word problems. DD hates them, but we work on them every couple of weeks. I'm starting to draw bar graphs and I think that may be helping and I may use the pp's suggestion of using manipulatives. It could be that some kids are not ready for such word problems, even though they may be working on more difficult number problems, so maybe taking a break from it for a few weeks would be good. I've also tried switching to another language when re-phrasing the question, but that didn't seem to work. I don't even think it's a matter of reading comprehension because DD's reading level is about 5th grade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renmew Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 I teach second grade, and those kind of problems are a real big thing. When I start with my new class each year, I stress drawing pictures from what you're reading in a math problem. I don't actually teach listening for key wording to help choose which operation to use, EXCEPT with "how many more/fewer" questions. I show my kids with board examples and manipulatives exactly why subtraction is the way to go. I use examples they are familiar with - like mom gives you two cookies and little sister 5 cookies. You complain and whine that sister got more than you. However many more would you need so that it was fair? Some of my kids just aren't ready to get the "why" of it, and that is fine, because when they are developmentally ready they will. Still, I teach 34+ kids every year and my job is to teach this skill, ready or not. So, I make a complete and utter joke of it. I will repeat in 1 day in different volumes and accents, over and over and over again, with as much humor as I can muster, what do we do when we hear "how many more/less?" WE SUBTRACT! I tell them a huge neon light should go off in their head FLASH FLASH FLASH subtract!! The kids tell me this answer 50+ times in one day and we review it every week for the rest of their second grade lives. It might seem boring to you, but I could ask any 7th grader today (my first class there) the same question and they smile immediately, chuckle a little, and give me the correct answer, usually with an accent. Kids will remember anything if you make it funny enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DianeW88 Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 I have always told my kiddos that when you read "how many more" in a story problem.....it's code for "subtract". That's all they need to know in my experience. Read those words...subtract. I make them memorize it and then we move along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paige Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 I am so relieved to see this post. I was going through the exact same pages in MM last week and I thought I would lose my mind. I told them that "More than" was code for "equal and then plus" and "fewer than" was code for "equal and then subtract." I think the word "fewer" tripped them up and they did better when I changed it to less than. We struggled on the word problems and I had them give both people an equal amount, whatever they felt like, and then they added circles or erased circles to get the more or less than. They did it better that way a few times. Then, in desperation I took them away from the paper and I gave them candy. I said, surely you know if I give your sister more than you how much you will need to make it equal. You know what isn't fair, and you know how to make it equal, and you know how to give somebody more. We passed out candy for a while until they saw that the math was no different than their whining to me at snack time that "she got 2 more bunny cookies than me and it isn't fair!" :lol: I am too much of a by the book type and it didn't even cross my mind to skip that section when they were not getting it at all. I am not convinced that they will be able to do them without help on Monday but they did do some by themselves on Thursday so I am optimistic. When we got to the page where they made you do it with subtraction, they did most of it with no assistance. I don't know why MM didn't just teach them to subtract it from the start instead of torturing us with those more than and fewer than addition word problems! At least now, if they still struggle on Mon., I'll know it is a common problem and I'll just skip it and come back later. I had no idea this could be a difficult concept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleepymommy Posted January 30, 2011 Author Share Posted January 30, 2011 I am so glad to hear that we weren't the only ones that struggled with that section. I'm with Paige on this, I don't know why most of the problems involving "how many more" had to be done as addition. It would seem better just to focus on the subtraction and move on! Thanks Renmew, I think I will try the funny voice with ds6 too. He will get a kick out of it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FO4UR Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 I lay out the Cuisenaire Rods as I read the problem and point to the empty spot when I ask "How many more?" This concept will be repeated and repeated. No worries. Use the manips/pictures as much and as long as needed. When the child is annoyed at the thought of using the manips b/c he can do it faster without, they are no longer needed. I just did some of these with my dc today...the 5yo can work them with manips. The 7yo can whip the answers out without batting an eyelash (He worked them with manips at 5yo.). The 5yo will be 7 soon enough.;) Still, even though my 7yo can whip out the answers, writing the equations is yet a different skill set. He can, but writing it out in symbolic language is the last step...don't rush it. jmho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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