What type of writing is prominent in your homeschool?

[Night Elf]

Writing is one of those topics that is repeatedly discussed, I know. But please bear with me.

 

I have listened to SWB's Writing Without Fear. I just can't get my ds11 writing.

 

Jeffrey is using K12's program but he doesn't do any of the writing assignments. He especially hates the composition program which asks him to do personal narratives, expository writing, etc. I'm assuming those are traditional types of writing. When he writes, his writing is pretty awesome. He doesn't have a problem with mechanics. It's content.

 

So I thought maybe the pace and expectation of K12 was simply too much for him. He does have Asperger's Syndrome which affects his schooling. I purchased a 4th grade Spectrum Writing workbook thinking it might suit him better. He has the same problems though. He's only made it through 5 lessons but it's like pulling teeth to get him to write. (I know this is long, I'm so sorry!! I just really need help thinking this through and putting him on the right track.)

 

One of the Spectrum assignments showed him a picture and asked him to write a paragraph about it. It showed a girl running down a pier with waves crashing a boat floating away. His first try:

 

"A girl is running down the pier. Waves are crashing against the pier. A boat is floating nearby."

 

So then I asked him to rewrite it in story form rather than being so literal. He asked if he could name the girl. I thought that was funny because he is such a literal minded person and he didn't feel it was right to make up something about the picture that he didn't know for a fact. But I asked him to try anyway and here is his paragraph:

 

"As a powerful storm raged, Emily took shelter in her coast-side house. She then remembered her boat, which was moored by the dock. With great speed, she rushed outside and ran down the dock. When she got to the end, Emily stood shocked. Her boat had been knocked free of its moorings and was slowly drifting away."

 

I think that sounds lovely! I'm just unsure of what to ask of him. Should I continue the Spectrum Writing and perhaps skip the grammar type assignments? Should I expect him to work on the K12 writing which is still creative writing? Or should I heed SWB's advice and steer clear from creative writing? Is it really okay if my son doesn't work on expository or persuasive or whatever type writing? Do I just ask him to write a paragraph of what he reads in History, Science and Literature, alternating a subject each day? Will his writing volume increase naturally? When or how will he make the transition to multiple paragraphs?

 

Oh and he does understand the concept of outlining though he hasn't outlined a book like Kingfisher. K12 has him using the Hakim series for History. Can we possibly outline those? Science is all online so I have no idea how I'd outline that.

 

I'm just really confused. How do I make a decision? I've avoided serious thinking about writing because of Jeffrey's issues, but he's almost 12 years old. I am starting to feel pressured by my DH to make sure Jeffrey is ready for high school.

[Colleen in NS]

It sounds to me like he has various bits and pieces that he needs for a writing foundation already. He is literal and can write facts. He understands the concept of outlining. He knows how to use mechanics. The *bonus* that I see is that he has creative writing tendencies - I thought that paragraph about the girl and boat was fabulous! I don't think SWB meant that kids SHOULDN'T write creatively, just that we shouldn't push them to write creatively if they are not so inclined. I think her emphasis was on building up other writing skills over the years, to be able to use other forms of writing in high school/college, even if they never write creatively. Those other forms are meant to help us think clearly about what we are reading or hearing for the rest of our lives.

 

I don't know anything about Asperger's, or about the writing programs you named. So take anything I say and filter it through what you know. :)

 

I guess I would start with: Is he comfortable with reading a history or science passage (a page or a few pages) and narrating it in 3 or 4 sentences or so? If not, use SWB's writing CD suggestions for grammar stage - narration and dictation, until he can bring the two skills together by himself in a paragraph. If so, move on to outlining (but still have him write a paragraph or so a day in history or science). You can use many things for outlining - the thing I recently discovered about this is that it's easier to outline 5 or 6 paragraphs that are clearly one topic each. So check out your various history books to see if they are easy to outline, and start with one level outlining (unless you know he can do two or three level outlining). You can do the same with science - are there any passages online that he can read and outline? The next phase on the writing CD after outlining is rewriting from an outline. My understanding is that when you get to this skill, it will replace writing narrations of science and history.

 

I'd work on the narration and dictation, and outlining for several years, and use a writing program alongside these skills - a program that teaches several other writing skills, with maybe a few creative writing assignments thrown in for variety. Then I'd start on rewriting from an outline (anywhere from 6th to 8th grade when he's comfortable with three level outlining)(still alongside a writing program). The way I understood the writing CD is that the writing programs are meant to be used alongside the skills mentioned in the CD. They all work together to build up to high school writing. And, you CAN put creative writing in there, but you don't have to.

 

I say all this because you say he hates writing - perhaps he just needs to build up his writing skills one step at a time this way. I think the expository and persuasive writing you asked about doesn't happen until high school or so anyway. What SWB said on her CD made total sense to me - build up the skills first, then high school writing will be much easier.

 

Will his writing volume increase naturally? When or how will he make the transition to multiple paragraphs?

 

 

Here's my story about this. My 10yos has been working on narration and dictation for several years now. He has HATED writing all this time. I've panicked, sweated, listened to that writing CD over and over again taking extensive notes and read anything and everything I could ever find written by SWB about writing, to reassure myself that it was all worthwhile (and to try to understand the big picture of writing). And I picked away at these writing skills, a little at a time, every day during school time. Just a few weeks ago, he finally got comfortable with telling a tape recorder what he wanted to write, in coherent sentences ON HIS OWN, and writing those few sentences from the tape recorder BY HIMSELF. This was a major milestone for him! And today, he actually wrote three sentences, BY HIMSELF, without needing me or the tape recorder to help him put his sentences together or remind him of what he just said so he could get it on paper. HE DID IT HIMSELF!!

 

I can finally see that since he broke through this barrier, that he will eventually be able to write two paragraphs on his own. I can also see in a few years that this will happen because of the outlining and rewriting from an outline - I see that these two skills which are coming up next are going to help with expanding what he writes. Think about it: if he writes a three level outline for 6 paragraphs of a science book, he'll end up writing 6 paragraphs in his own words when he rewrites from that particular outline. Eventually he'll be able to come up with his own ideas to write several paragraphs about.

 

All this to say, go back to the basics of the writing CD and build up from there. :)

 

Hope something here helps! :)

[Linda...inOwasso]

"As a powerful storm raged, Emily took shelter in her coast-side house. She then remembered her boat, which was moored by the dock. With great speed, she rushed outside and ran down the dock. When she got to the end, Emily stood shocked. Her boat had been knocked free of its moorings and was slowly drifting away."

 

 

I agree that is a wonderful writing sample. My dc are younger so I don't have "experience" to offer you -- only opinion, so for what it's worth:

 

1. I see nothing wrong with encouraging creative writing. A writer who can capture and hold a reader's attention is one who's works will be read.

 

2. Outlining, reports, etc... are also important when it comes to "school assignments." So, while they're not nearly as fun to write, they're necessary.

 

3. My guess is your ds will move to multiple paragraphs when he's required to. For us, it will be in 4th grade (possibly 3rd) but I try to gradually increase my expectations for my dc. Playing catch up is NO fun. I'd rather be a little ahead of the game and have some room for coasting (if needed) than pushing to get up to speed.

 

4. There are so many types of writing -- I would decide which types YOU want him to know and then develop a game plan. (i.e., writing poetry is wonderful but not essential. Writing a research paper is necessary.) Set your short-term goals based on the big picture. I always feel better when I know where I'm going and have laid out a path.

 

Best wishes to you!!

[Oakblossoms]

My son has Asperger's, too. He just turned 11 and writing is a struggle. I think because he is a perfectionist. He hates his handwriting and he can tell when a sentence is written well. He wants his first writing to be a Novel.

 

We are starting Writing Strands 3 this month. I didn't do any written narration with him when he was younger. So, we have slowly started to add them into his work. But, I try to make them fun. Like have him take pictures of a project and write captions for all the pictures. Sometimes I type his narrations for him and print them out for his notebook. Are you doing anything like that with him yet?

 

At this point I don't think outlining is necessary for him. Perhaps when he is older. But, I try to keep in mind that he will be behind in some areas and that is why we homeschool. So, he doesn't have to feel behind. Plenty of children go off to college lacking skills in some areas and they do just fine. I know because I'm in the University right now. I've figured out when we are struggling that I need to create a sneak attack plan on him.

 

It's been a huge struggle for us and I feel your pain. PM if you want.

[Night Elf]

Thank you for your responses. I decided to order IEW and use it alongside the K12 materials. I'm also going to get him started on writing in each subject, even if it's just a few sentences each day.

 

We did try Writing Strands a couple of years ago and I remember he loved the first few lessons but then he hit an assignment that frustrated him. That's why I tried Spectrum Writing which you can find in a bookstore like Barnes and Noble or a teacher store. I do like the workbook but I wasn't sure if it was the right thing to do.

 

He definitely prefers using his computer to type assignments over handwriting. I have him write paragraphs on the computer and handwriting if it's no more than a few sentences. I'm working on building up his fine motor skills. He's gotten so used to do everything orally that it was a struggle to get him to handwrite anything, but he's been doing it for a little while now and no longer complains. I see that as progress!

 

I really appreciate the responses and am copying these ideas into a file so I can go back and look at them. I guess it's time to listen to Writing Without Fear again. I always come away from that cd wishing I could have an hour or two of SWB's personal time to discuss my specific child and his writing issues! :)

[mcconnellboys]

It sounds like you need to give him some ability to set factual parameters for himself, so that he feels he can write about things. If he sees the world in very literal terms due to his Aspergers, it may always be difficult for him to write "imaginery" things. It sounds to me like you've hit on precisely what you need to do in order for him to be able to write. Let him set some parameters so that he can relate to the pictures in some way. I think the Spectrum book you're using is fine as a starting point for him to help him be able to have success in doing that. And I think his writing today was absolutely wonderful!

[Carol in Cal.]

You might also want to look at Wordsmith Apprentice. It is pretty specific in what it asks of emerging writers, and it's kind of a gentle start. Also, I would focus hard on doing frequent, short writing in subject areas--book reports, science lab reports, history summaries, etc. I would not polish all of those necessarily--although here I diverge with some of the WTM recommendations--but would pick one per week or so to perfect. That way he is getting words on paper in various 'true' genres every day or two, which would warm up his writing muscles.

 

I agree with others that his final paragraph was pretty good, and I would add that sending a child back to rewrite something is something that all teachers have to do. It is not abnormal. It takes a while to get used to following writing assignments exactly, and to amplifying on everything. It is also true that rewriting and editing are two writing areas that are widely resisted by children, if this board's collective expressed experience is any guide. So he might not be as far out of the norm as he may seem to you in that regard.

[EKS]

For a child lilke this, I recommend IEW's keyword outline technique to get him started. My son did this for about a year before progressing to other forms of writing. We don't do the rest of IEW, but the keyword outline thing worked like a miracle for him.

[8filltheheart]

Hi Beth,

 

I think the 2nd sample was excellent.

 

I just wanted to comment on fictional/non-fictional writing, esp with someone with Aspergers. I am not a huge proponent of pushing fictional writing on kids that prefer to write factually; HOWEVER, fictional writing does lend itself to active voice writing more easily. Your ds's 1st example is typical in its "voice" for most elementary kids' factual writing. Learning "voice" is an important skill.

 

For a child with Aspergers, learning to be descriptive and present material in active voice might be easier exemplified with fictional descriptive writing. If he can incorporate that skill into science or history assignments, you have attained a huge victory.

 

FWIW.....I do not force my non-fiction writers to write fictionally very often. I do occassionaly request one. This yr, one of my sons complained repeatedly about a fictional assignment I made him do. Ultimately, he thoroughly enjoyed it and it was one of the best papers he had ever written. We took that paper and compared it to his non-fiction writing to evaluate. He has done several additional fictional assignments since then and the transference of active voice skills into his essay/report writing has been invaluable.

 

Also, I personally wouldn't recommend IEW for a child with Aspergers b/c with a literal transference of understanding, you might find him totally constrained with the key word approach. I think summation is a more important skill for writing.

 

HTH :)

[Night Elf]

Also, I personally wouldn't recommend IEW for a child with Aspergers b/c with a literal transference of understanding, you might find him totally constrained with the key word approach. I think summation is a more important skill for writing.

 

HTH :)

 

I've already ordered it but they have a return policy if I don't like it. How would you recommend I help him with doing summaries? I had him writing summaries once and he got frustrated because he wanted to retell every little detail. I thought IEW would help him with that. And I love the look of the U.S. History based writing lessons. I'll look over the materials as soon as I get them.

[8filltheheart]

The concern I have about a child with Aspergers and key word outlining is that it might lead to regurgitation exactly like what you describe. Key word outlines can cause perfectly normal kids to want to plagarize, but with Aspies that literally want to re-tell everything, it can be even harder for them to understand the distinction.

 

One way I have helped my "literal" one is by giving him a couple of different sources that talk about the exact same topic but in different styles and then asking him what he knows. The mix of sources BEFORE telling the info helps force kids to process it in their own words. I have had the best success locating info in simple google searches for articles aimed at children. Usually each will have its own focus. It will probably require you to ask your questions carefully, but through selective questioning vs. asking for a point-blank retell, you can help them learn to assimilate info and make it there own before summarizing it.