4wildberrys Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Is this possible without any huge hurdles? My son is completing MUS Algebra 1 and I am contemplating switching him to Saxon using Dive and the MFW lesson plans because even though MUS Alg has gone well, there have been a few annoying snags. First of all, there is no teaching or solutions for the Honors lessons, simply a brief explanation of the topic and the answers only are given in the answer key. He has totally balked at pretty much every single lesson so far because they are just too vague or confusing. Then just the procedure of some information on the DVD, some in the book and the rest left for us to figure out with the answer key for the regular lessons is starting to get to me. I am worried about the upper levels now, especially Calculus by MUS. It just seems that Saxon is a tried and true entity, clearly self teaching and the reference numbers make it easy to review forgotten concepts. I know there are 'better' math programs out there, but I don't have the $300+ at the moment for them, which is why I am now considering Saxon. So is this crazy or unworkable to try and move to Saxon Alg 2 from MUS Alg 1? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalGal Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 I don't have personal experience...yet. We're in the process of switching from MUS to Saxon. My 14 year old is currently working on MUS PreAlgebra. We're waiting for the Saxon Algebra 1/2 to arrive. Cathy Duffy's 100 Top Picks review stated that a student completing MUS PreAlgebra could move INTO Saxon Algebra 1/2...which suggests to me that MUS is a full level behind Saxon. I'm thinking I will review have her complete the tests until she scores 80% or less, we'll back up 5 lessons and we'll start at that point in Saxon Algebra 1/2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4wildberrys Posted January 18, 2011 Author Share Posted January 18, 2011 I don't have personal experience...yet. We're in the process of switching from MUS to Saxon. My 14 year old is currently working on MUS PreAlgebra. We're waiting for the Saxon Algebra 1/2 to arrive. Cathy Duffy's 100 Top Picks review stated that a student completing MUS PreAlgebra could move INTO Saxon Algebra 1/2...which suggests to me that MUS is a full level behind Saxon. I'm thinking I will review have her complete the tests until she scores 80% or less, we'll back up 5 lessons and we'll start at that point in Saxon Algebra 1/2. Uh-oh---this doesn't sound too good! :001_huh: If you don't mind, Why are you switching to Saxon from MUS? Anyone else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbollin Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Have him take a placement test in Saxon. You might have some bumps,learning curves... I don't know. since you mentioned mfw and their saxon plans... here's a link to their website and the Saxon placement test. saxon placement test not to start math wars in cyber space, but the comment about MUS being "behind" Saxon is something that my husband made the same comment on after looking at the table of contents in MUS calculus and the book just below that. My dh was a dual math and chemistry major, so maybe he has very high expectation or whatever. But just saying that others has noted similar thing. no such thing as one size fits all? (can you tell I avoid math topics on forums for fear of wars :lol: -crystal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4wildberrys Posted January 18, 2011 Author Share Posted January 18, 2011 Thanks Crystal---I went ahead and printed that placement test from MFW. The placement test from the Saxon site for Algebra 2 is WAY over our heads! We'll have to see---I'm not sure my son would do another year of Algebra1 :confused: I notice that MUS has pulled their Calculus course. I just have major reservations about using something that's so new and perhaps will still be full of kinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiramisu Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 My friend's dd went from MUS Pre-Algebra to Saxon Algebra 1. She's not mathematically inclined, but she made it and completed through Saxon Algebra 2. They did get a tutor. That could have made a big difference.:001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teachin'Mine Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 If you do switch to Saxon, I would definitely begin with Algebra I. You can have him take the tests only and let him keep going with those until he starts scoring below 85% or so. Then have him start the lessons from that point, and be sure to review the concepts he had missed. If Algebra 2 looked way over where he's at, then Saxon Algebra 1 may have enough new concepts for him that it won't feel like doing the same thing over again. Saxon is reasonably priced, can't believe I'm saying that as I was in sticker shock when we first started using it, but I also think that it's one of the best. That is, if it works for your student. No one program will work well for every student. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbollin Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 I notice that MUS has pulled their Calculus course. well that made my head tilt b/c he and I just looked at it a few days ago but.... but you're right. I can see the online table of contents of it, but there's no price or ordering. oh well. ok.... (my dh said it about several of the other upper level ones too and hearing others having the placement results tells me my dh was right again. not surprised really that my dh is right on this stuff.) :grouphug: -crystal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalGal Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Uh-oh---this doesn't sound too good! :001_huh: If you don't mind, Why are you switching to Saxon from MUS? Anyone else? I had the same reaction... ;) My husband and I became concerned about the "ease" with which our children were flying through the program. It just seemed too "easy"...they weren't being challenged and as I've already noted, it didn't seem to teach the same concepts as other programs. We want to make sure that we are adequately preparing our children for the future and it just seemed like the right time to make a change. Does that help?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4wildberrys Posted January 19, 2011 Author Share Posted January 19, 2011 I had the same reaction... ;) My husband and I became concerned about the "ease" with which our children were flying through the program. It just seemed too "easy"...they weren't being challenged and as I've already noted, it didn't seem to teach the same concepts as other programs. We want to make sure that we are adequately preparing our children for the future and it just seemed like the right time to make a change. Does that help?? Yes, thank you! And I know what you mean by 'flying' through the program :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4wildberrys Posted January 19, 2011 Author Share Posted January 19, 2011 well that made my head tilt b/c he and I just looked at it a few days ago but.... but you're right. I can see the online table of contents of it, but there's no price or ordering. oh well. ok.... (my dh said it about several of the other upper level ones too and hearing others having the placement results tells me my dh was right again. not surprised really that my dh is right on this stuff.) :grouphug: -crystal I know! So are you using Saxon with the MFW schedule? You have a high schooler, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenaj Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 My dd did MUS Algebra and then switched into Saxon Algebra II. I won't say it wasn't difficult, but she has managed and she's not a "math" kid at all. She did hit a wall between lessons 20 and 30 but we just backed up and redid those lessons and she's been flying through them since them. I'm sure it's not ideal but it has worked for her. For what it's worth, my ds did Teaching Textbooks I, then MUS Geometry and then Saxon Algebra II. He said that he learned more in Saxon Algebra II than he did in either one of the previous courses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbollin Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 I know! So are you using Saxon with the MFW schedule? You have a high schooler, right? sorta right :) (you can tell it's too early in the morning for me....) my oldest (currently 9th grade) did Saxon 8/7 in 7th with MFW plans. She then did Saxon Alg. 1 in 8th grade with the MFW plans. And this year is in Jacob's Geometry with mfw plans. next year, saxon alg ii, and yep... my daughter loves those mfw plans. and yes, she used DIVE CD with 8/7 and alg I. -crystal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bethben Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Does the sequence of lessons bug anyone else in Saxon? it seems so jumpy to me - like they're not really mastering anything before having to learn something completely different. I'm on a MUS/Saxon fence coming from Singapore. Beth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cheryl in SoCal Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Does the sequence of lessons bug anyone else in Saxon? it seems so jumpy to me - like they're not really mastering anything before having to learn something completely different. I'm on a MUS/Saxon fence coming from Singapore. Beth It drove us insane, and is the reason we won't use Saxon again. If we wanted to change from MUS it would be to AoPS or ChalkDust depending on the child. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenaj Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Does the sequence of lessons bug anyone else in Saxon? it seems so jumpy to me - like they're not really mastering anything before having to learn something completely different. I'm on a MUS/Saxon fence coming from Singapore. Beth It doesn't bother me anymore and my kids have become used to it. I didn't appreciate it completely until I realized that my kidlet that was doing 8/7 last year was not complaining about the new concepts. I would ask him what his lesson was about and he would tell me and then usually add, "but it's easy because we did (such and such) last week and this is just a little different". I realized then that he had adjusted to the Saxon incremental system and was beginning to connect the dots. All of my kids, older and younger, have since said similiar things when talking about their math lessons. Notice that I said they don't complain about the new concepts - that doesn't mean we don't have any complaining about the problem sets :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalGal Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Just wanted to "pop in" and say that I spoke with Art Reed on the phone yesterday. (I purchased his DVD series for Algebra 1/2.) His advice was to start testing with Test 1. The parent should score the test like "Atilla the Hun" (his exact words) -- meaning no partial credit for forgetting to reduce fractions, etc. Review the missed problems. In a day or two, do Test 2...and so on until the student scores less than 80%. This is the point at which you start in Saxon. He was WONDERFUL!! You can call or email any time with questions, concerns, etc. and he answers each and every one in person within 24 hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngieW in Texas Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 (edited) Saxon has its own unique scope and sequence. It's extremely difficult to start it after Algebra I because it has other topics randomly sprinkled in. My experience with Saxon is only from looking at it. The randomness of the program made absolutely no sense at all to me. There was no logic to the sequence that I could see. If you want to switch to Saxon, you'll need to start with Algebra I and then you can use the tests to skip through the book until you get to material that hasn't been learned yet. Have you looked at Kinetic Books? It's a solid program with a sequence that actually makes sense. It's done on the computer, so most of the problems have immediate feedback. It's also designed for self-teaching. I've used it for Algebra I and Algebra II. I'd be using it for prealgebra right now if my youngest didn't refuse to use any math program that's computer-based. KB is also pretty inexpensive at $60 for a one-year subscription. I'd probably put him in Algebra I though. I'd skip the end-of-unit exercises completely and just have him do the problems that have immediate feedback on the computer. KB is a pretty rigorous algebra program, so I don't think he'd be able to go from MUS Algebra I to KB Algebra II. Edited January 21, 2011 by AngieW in Texas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuvingLife Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 I know you probably don't want another program thrown into the mix, but have you heard/tried Lial's introductory algebra? I love it so much, and thanks to Jann in TX, she has me completely hooked to the program. I love how it gives such detailed explanations, and how it gives plenty of practice problems before it even starts the problem sets. Personally, I don't like Saxon all too much, I love how hard it is and I loved being challenged, but the jumpiness became a little too much for me. So I had to put the brakes on and put the book on the shelf, which was why I tried Lial's. I am also going to be doing MUS geometry for this year, just so I know that I have covered everything, we could not afford TT geometry. Hope this helps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4wildberrys Posted January 21, 2011 Author Share Posted January 21, 2011 I know you probably don't want another program thrown into the mix, but have you heard/tried Lial's introductory algebra? I love it so much, and thanks to Jann in TX, she has me completely hooked to the program. I love how it gives such detailed explanations, and how it gives plenty of practice problems before it even starts the problem sets. Personally, I don't like Saxon all too much, I love how hard it is and I loved being challenged, but the jumpiness became a little too much for me. So I had to put the brakes on and put the book on the shelf, which was why I tried Lial's. I am also going to be doing MUS geometry for this year, just so I know that I have covered everything, we could not afford TT geometry. Hope this helps! Thanks for the suggestion! If my son was as self-motivated as you, it sounds like something like LIal's would be great :tongue_smilie: As it is, since his placement test looks more like he would be starting with the Saxon Algebra 1 book, I think we will just tough it out with MUS. We figured out some concepts that were stumping us after watching the DVD again and re-reading the TM...about 3 times! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HollyDay Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 MUS has a much different (IMHO) scope and sequence from Saxon. It might be a good idea to take the Saxon placement test and follow that advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuvingLife Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Thanks for the suggestion! If my son was as self-motivated as you, it sounds like something like LIal's would be great :tongue_smilie: As it is, since his placement test looks more like he would be starting with the Saxon Algebra 1 book, I think we will just tough it out with MUS. We figured out some concepts that were stumping us after watching the DVD again and re-reading the TM...about 3 times! Aww thank you and I am glad you have figured out your problem, hopefully all will turn out well in the end! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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