Dog advice

[Danestress]

Okay, I need input from dog people.

 

I have a lovely male (neutered) Belgian Shepherd (see my profile page - I think he's there).

 

He's very affectionate, sweet, fun, spirited, and snuggly. He will let my children do pretty much anything to him, and he not only lets me brush his teeth, he will even let me scrape them. He will let kids lie down on TOP of him, take his food - anything. All this to say that he's quite compliant in some ways.

 

But I do not like how territorial he is about the yard. He's on an electric fence, which is both a life saver, and probably part of the problem. I love that he can run out at night or in the morning without me having to take him. But I also am worried that he's too territorial, and it doesn't help that he LOOKS scary. He smiles at people and it scares them. It scared me when his Mom did it to me, and I have never felt fear of a dog before. Now I know it's his greeting - he bares his teeth in a grin every morning when he sees me, but of course it's scares the heck out of people.

 

Twice now he has nipped small children in the yard. The first time, the kids ran in my yard to do the "boo" thing at Halloween. One girl was afraid of him, ran, fell, screamed, and he nipped her as she ran. All the kids said he was being playful - not aggressive. But it's continuing problem that his way to play is to grab at our clothes, and in this case, he grabbed at her booty.

 

This weekend, he scared a girl scout who came to the door when he was loose in the yard. She ran off and he chased. I don't think there was any physical contact, but I hate that he scared her (I also hate kids coming in my yard if they are already afraid of the dog, because I think it's a bad combo).

 

One other time he nipped a boy in the yard. He was wanting to come to the front door. Again, he was afraid of the dog but came up anyway. It wasn't a big deal - not skin breakage or anything, and I think he wanted to play, but I wish he played differently. I wish he looked less scary. He adores kids an want to play with them, and he does get the chance to do that, but mostly with older elementary and junior high boys who don't mind the clothes nipping. Unfortunately, my boys have sort of let him get away with that.

 

Anyway, obviously he needs to not be unattended outside. I NEVER leave him in the yard when we are away from the house. But I do lot him stay out for an hour or so at a time. Honestly, he loves being outside. Maybe I need to stop this? But it's hard to stop because he loves it and asks to go out a lot - and does get exercise when he's out. He has only gone through the fence once in 3 years, so I am not worried about that. He is a wimp.

 

I'm just trying to problem solve here. I like my neighbors and don't want to cause problems. I don't understand kids not being taught to stay out of yard with loose dogs they don't know well. In all three cases, the child in the yard was not invited or expected or really knew my dog. But I don't want to make this about how the kids need to change, because he's my dog and I like kids and want to be a good neighbor.

 

Any insight? I know there is more than one angle here.

[kewb]

Is he taken for daily walks? Dogs need to roam. If they don't get the roaming they tend to get yard aggressive. My dog is much happier when he gets a 30 minutes walk in the morning and then either a couple of short walks through the day or another 30 minute walk in the late afternoon/early evening.

[astrid]

So sorry you're going through this, Danestress. I totally understand, BTDT.

 

The first thing that leaps to my mind is that he's a herding breed, and the running/chasing/nipping that he did to the little girl is just textbook behavior in drive-y herding breeds, such as you Belgian Shepherd.

 

That said, aggression is very different than prey drive, and very different again from territorial guarding. Herding breeds have strong genetics telling them to keep their "flock" (you and the kids) surrounded and be on the lookout for any intruders, so that's what he's doing.

 

The "smiling" is sweet to you, but as you know, it can be intimidating to others. It might just be who he is, or it might mean something else-- fear, nervousness, stress, discomfort in the situation. Could be anything. Or nothing. Without observing him it's hard to tell.

 

Could you maybe back up the invisible fence a bit? Without seeing your property, if you've got it right up to the sidewalk, they tend to develop more fence-charging behavior. We did this with ours. We live in a residential neighborhood of historic homes and could not put up fencing because of zoning regs, etc. so went with professionally installed invisible fence, which as you say, is a lifesaver.

 

I highly recommend the book The Culture Clash by Jean Donaldson.

 

Hope that helps a bit--- sorry I didn't have more to offer--

 

astrid

[Danestress]

I would be willing to spend the money to move the wire up closer to the house. We have a full front yard going down to the residential street, and he can go to within about 4 feet of the end of our yard/the curb. I wonder if he only had half the front yard - like 30 feet back from the curb, if that would help. I bet it would, and I will talk to my fence guy about that. I would do anything I had to do in order to make the situation better because I LOVE this dog and also love my neighbors.

 

I will look at the book too - thanks for the recommendation.

 

The grinning is not nervousness - he grins at me when I have been away from the house or when I get up in the morning sometimes. Apparently it's genetic.

 

thanks for the suggestions!

[vettechmomof2]

So sorry you're going through this, Danestress. I totally understand, BTDT.

 

The first thing that leaps to my mind is that he's a herding breed, and the running/chasing/nipping that he did to the little girl is just textbook behavior in drive-y herding breeds, such as you Belgian Shepherd.

 

That said, aggression is very different than prey drive, and very different again from territorial guarding. Herding breeds have strong genetics telling them to keep their "flock" (you and the kids) surrounded and be on the lookout for any intruders, so that's what he's doing.

 

The "smiling" is sweet to you, but as you know, it can be intimidating to others. It might just be who he is, or it might mean something else-- fear, nervousness, stress, discomfort in the situation. Could be anything. Or nothing. Without observing him it's hard to tell.

 

Could you maybe back up the invisible fence a bit? Without seeing your property, if you've got it right up to the sidewalk, they tend to develop more fence-charging behavior. We did this with ours. We live in a residential neighborhood of historic homes and could not put up fencing because of zoning regs, etc. so went with professionally installed invisible fence, which as you say, is a lifesaver.

 

I highly recommend the book The Culture Clash by Jean Donaldson.

 

Hope that helps a bit--- sorry I didn't have more to offer--

 

astrid

:iagree:

I have no other ideas yet except changing the style of fencing to a more secure setting where people cannot walk through your yard anymore.

[gingersmom]

Can you work with a trainer to curb the nipping problem?

 

I had a 10 pound bichon frise that would nip at ankles and butts. I thought it was hysterical (I was a kid), everyone else did not think it was so cute..

[Lolly]

Agreeing about moving the fence. You need to make sure that you move it so that people have access to your door without having to go through the dog. Perhaps consider allowing the dog to only have access to the backyard? (We had the same issue and wound up having to put a regular fence around the invisible fence in the backyard. The regular fence was to keep people out. The invisible fence was to keep the dog in.)

[myfunnybunch]

But it's continuing problem that his way to play is to grab at our clothes....<snip>...He adores kids an want to play with them, and he does get the chance to do that, but mostly with older elementary and junior high boys who don't mind the clothes nipping. Unfortunately, my boys have sort of let him get away with that.

 

Our young dog (under a year) wants to play like this.

 

Our children are under strict instructions not to allow nipping or clothes-grabbing of ANY kind. I am afraid that one day he will get wild and accidentally hurt one of my kids or someone else's. He's a good dog with good intentions, but he doesn't understand that teeth hurt!

 

When he starts getting mouthy, all play STOPS immediately. Immediately. The kids tuck their hands into their armpits, look at the sky and freeze, then walk away slowly. Usually they say "No!" firmly too. If he doesn't stop, they call me and I remove the dog to a quiet spot, usually the bathroom, for a time-out to calm down.

 

I work on teaching him "Gentle mouth." If he's getting mouthy, I stroke the sides of his face gently until he's no longer mouthing. Then I really work on petting his face and mouth, praising him quietly and telling him "Gentle mouth. Good gentle. Good dog, gentle." I also do this 2-3 times a day when he's calm--really handle his mouth, tell him "gentle." I do not allow the children to do this training. However, the word "gentle" has become a calming command for him. When he hears "gentle" from me or the kids, he is starting to calm just at the command. He's a young naturally mouthy guy, but he's learning. I still have to watch carefully and intervene once in a while, but I think once he's grown a little he'll stop altogether if we keep up the work.

 

Actually, I think the hardest part is to train the kids! LOL.

 

I don't know about the yard. But if you're working on the clothes-grabbing and mouthiness too, it lessens the possibility of nipping or clothes-grabbing if a child comes in the yard.

 

Cat