He wants to major in mechanical engineering ?? OH NO!!!

[Pam L in Mid Tenn]

While having a little "guidance counseling" session with my 15 year old boy this morning, he tells me that he'd like to major in mechanical engineering.:001_huh: He also tells me that math is his favorite subject.:001_huh:

 

He is math bright, but also he is extremely LAZY in math! :confused:

 

He does love to build and tinker. He still "builds" not "plays" with Legos. So I'm not TOTALLY surprised, but.... I am very overwhelmed!

 

Now, I fear that I have not pushed him enough. We've been more concerned with understanding than challenge. He did MUS from Alpha to PreAlgebra, switched to Lial's for Algebra I (he was overwhelmed with the "look" of the number of problems), tried a Larson text after Lial's ( I forgot why that did not work), and so we went back to MUS. He did MUS Algebra I and is now in MUS Geometry. (I can understand MUS and that might be a major part of it!)

 

I worried now that his 8th/9th grade years was so much switching and he'll be behind for a mechanical engineering major. Geometry is going quickly and he'll be able to begin Algebra 2 before the end of this year. I can teach MUS Algebra 2, but I'm not so sure about another program.

 

I'm not planning on dual enrollment. High school is homeschool. College is college.:001_smile:

 

My initial thought was to continue with MUS all the way to graduation and then let him place in at college algebra.

 

I know that most people here think MUS is not hard enough to be a foundation for engineering. I'm in a little bit of panic.:tongue_smilie:

 

What would you do? MUS as an introduction and another program for the meat? Drop MUS and do something else? What else? NOT Lials! Of course he is more mature with a goal in mind so Lial's might work now.

 

Please help.:bigear:

 

Oh and remember that I'm now working part time and my TIME and ABILITY to teach higher math is GREATLY limited.:001_smile:

[April in CA]

Hi Pam!

I don't have any personal experience with MUS, so my comments will be totally anecdotal. My son is a mech eng student who loved legos and robotics (FIRST Tech Challenge), and most of his friends from his robotics team are now engineering majors in college. One of his friends is a student at Cal Poly Pomona, studying electrical engineering. He used MUS during his homeschool years and also took a college algebra course at our local CC during his senior year. He started with precalc at Cal Poly and struggled. He also found his first calc class challenging, although, interestingly, not as challenging as precalc! This is a very bright young man who loves physics and will persevere with the math in order to do what he loves even though he does not love math itself.

 

On the other hand, my son felt very well prepared for calculus when he got to college - he attends LeTourneau University in TX. His highschool math was cobbled together from several curriculum providers, but the end result was good! He used Teaching Textbooks for Algebra 1 and 2, Art of Problem Solving for Geometry, Chalkdust for PreCalculus (did this over 3 semesters, since much of the review material was new to him), and finished up with Thinkwell Calculus for a semester at the end of his senior year.

 

I absolutely love the way that TT is set up, but their Alg 2 is a bit weak for someone who wants to go into engineering. If you were to choose them for other reasons, I would work all the way through their Precalc program and then switch to something like Chalkdust for another run at Precalc. AoPS and Chalkdust are both quite rigorous. AoPS, as the name implies, is very heavy into problem solving techniques and making sure you understand how the math works and why. DS found the Chalkdust dvs to be very valuable, if a bit dry at times. Ds was very self-motivated and worked at each problem set until he felt that he really understood the concepts. The problem sets are HUGE, but ds found he could work about every 4th problem or so and cover all the concepts. Thinkwell is very easy to monitor and ds found he could move through quite a bit of material with good understanding at a reasonably fast pace (especially compared to Chalkdust and AoPS). As I said, he felt very well prepared for Calc 1 at university - got an A, in fact! He starts Calc 2 tomorrow. Hopefully his experience with that will be just as positive!

 

If he truly wants to be an engineer, he will need to motivate himself to manage his time and do the hard work required. Having the goal makes the work mean something! You and he can do this! Hope this was helpful for you!

Blessings,

April

[jennynd]

I had a smile on my face when I saw the thread. I am a mechanical engineer with Master degree and Hubby is also mechanical engineering with PhD degree. I don't know any of the homeschool program at high school level as my son is only 6 years old. so I don't have good advise to you. But if you ever have question regarding the mechanical engineering field. feel free to ask

[Pam L in Mid Tenn]

Jenny: I'll be asking!:001_smile:

 

April: Thank you so much for sharing! TT is another program that many people feel is not hard enough for engineering majors. It is good to hear that a MUS grad is doing well in engineering courses.

 

I think I'll relax today and panic again later this spring when I choose courses and curriculum for next year!

 

I still want to hear from others with some different ideas for math programs to prepare my son for mech eng. :)

[Tullia]

Well, if it makes you feel any better, my humanities inclined son who struggled with math decided over the summer between graduating high school and enrolling full-time in college that he'd prefer to pursue a math/science degree :confused:. So, he enrolled as a "General Studies" student and took a couple of leveling courses because he wasn't quite ready for the college calculus taught in the MSE department at his community college. He then proceeded to take the beginning math and science required courses and finally after this past semester felt confident enough to actually declare his major.

 

Along the way, he's had some excellent instructors, and I also got some good advice from the folks at Art of Problem Solving. They, in particular, assured me that it's not too late for my son to change direction and gave me lots of help. Also, ds' current calculus instructor was a music major who, as he told the class today, decided he needed to eat, and therefore went to grad school to work toward advanced degrees in math.

 

Here's my take after watching my son's odd path over the past few years...the thing that's absolutely essential (if he continues to want to study ME) is that your son be well grounded in the algebra and trig that's necessary for MSE calculus at the college level. Many times, students who have impressive transcripts which include calculus end up struggling with college calculus due to various causes which I suspect often include grade/curriculum inflation in the high schools.

 

I think you make an excellent point about keeping high school as high school and college as college. There are many exceptions which I am willing to celebrate, but it is not necessary for a student to come out of high school "advanced". If they can do so--that's fabulous--for students who aren't moving ahead at a faster rate, IMO, the essential thing is that they come out of high school with a solid foundation.

 

I don't think there's any magic curriculum, but you might want to make sure that your son understands that there is a certain amount of "plug and chug" needed to get to the point where he can appreciate the fun and profound beauty of mathematics. At 20 my son finally appreciates that fact. At 15...well...he was a typical 15 yob.:ack2: However, I've found that "laziness" and boredom often go hand in hand. You might look at something like The Art of Problem Solving or LOF to spice things up a bit. AOPS offers online classes and has lots of web-based support. I've noticed over the years that the folks who make a success of engineering careers are excited when they get a chance to solve interesting problems. Plain-vanilla math curricula can take care of the "plug and chug" but you might want to add in something extra just for inspiration. This is a language arts example, but I once heard Karen Andreola say that she always taught a few sight words along the way in order to spice up phonics instruction. Maybe something similar holds true for math?

 

HTH,

Martha

 

PS: About April's mentioning TT; several years ago, I was talking math curricula with a mom who has engineering degrees as does her dh. They're TT fans and their children are doing well.

Edited January 12, 2011 by Martha in NM
add info.

[Denise in PA]

I also chuckled reading your post. About three years ago my teen age son (age 15) announced his interest in mechanical engineering as well. And yes, I saw it coming with his keen sense to build with Legos. Gotta love Legos. Hmm... I think his kinetic skills emerged before taking his first step!

 

Take a deep breath, there is a plethora of excellent math and science curricula available. And from reading the posts there is a lot of support too!

 

I learned the importance of being honest in assessing my academic skills when teaching my teenage children. I felt confident teaching geometry and algebra II with my son, but pre-calculus and calculus ... forget it. So, I found help. For my son's math needs we found an excellent math tutor nearby who actually teaches upper math to many homeschool teens. Her math knowledge far exceeded mine. She prepared him well, much better than I ever could have. I loved how she held him accountable. The text for pre-calculus was a local high school text (you may want to ask your school for one) while Saxon was used for calculus. Oh, we also implemented Forester too.

 

As you already surmise, it is prudent to provide the best math curriculum that fits his learning needs. I am not familiar with MUS, but if this fits his learning style then use it.

 

I also found an excellent chemistry and physics teacher for my son. A retired electrical engineer with a teaching degree taught my son alone with five other home school teens every week. Excellent instruction!

 

Get creative. There are so many talented people available to step in to prepare your son.

 

Another suggestion you may wish to consider is investigating engineer summer camps at a college. The summer before his junior year my son attended one week of engineering camp at Cedarville University (Ohio). He flew there on his own, learned about three major engineering fields, met with several professors each day, participated in fun labs, and decided right there this was the school he wanted to attend. This camp really opened his eyes to the engineering profession and motivated him to work diligently with his studies the next two years of high school.

 

My son just finished his first semester at Cedarville and survived! His calculus I professor challenged John, but learned so much. Thankfully he felt prepared and actually breezed through the chemistry for engineers class.

 

If you are not able to send your son to an engineering camp then make appointments for your son to sit down with several engineers in your locale. By asking questions about their job responsibilities he will grow excited. I also suggest researching college requirements for engineering majors on-line, with your son. Reading the suggested four-year engineering tract opens your eyes as to how to prepare him.

 

Lastly, be grateful for your wonderful son's engineering aptitude!

 

Blessings!

[April in CA]

Hello again, Pam!

This is not a math suggestion, but rather a robotics suggestion. My sons have been involved in FIRST Robotics for several years (older ds was in 7th grade, younger ds was in 5th grade), and it really sparked and shaped an abiding interest in emgineering, esp mech engineering in my older son. You can go to USFIRST.org to explore what it is all about if you are not familiar with it. We compete at the FIRST Tech Challenge level - high school level robotics, but more affordable than the huge robots that require budgets of10s of $1000s. If your son is a go getter with like minded friends, he could put together a team. This year would be a steep learning curve, since we are in the competition season. If that seems too much for this year, I would encourage you to try to find a regional event somewhere reasonably close by to attend. This year's game is very challenging! You can also find videos on youtube of various events. We have been blessed to attend the world championships in Atlanta for the past two years and we hope to make it back this year - this year the championships are in St Louis in mid-April. If a robotics team is totally out of the realm of possibility, get the budding engineer a Lego Mindstorms kit and call it an educational expense. Lots of colleges use Mindstorms in intro to design courses!

Blessings,

April (who is very excited about having mech engineers with advanced degrees on the WTM forum!)

[Pam L in Mid Tenn]

Thank you all for the replies and suggestions. I did think about robotics clubs last night. I live near Nashville and I'm sure there are teams here. One major problem is money. I'm working part time to put food on the table. I have NO idea where one extra penny will come from! He is already involved with boy scouts... maybe there are some robotics projects he can do with boy scouts.

 

So, no one is really upset that our math has been MUS and he is planning on an engineering degree????

[Mom2boys]

Thank you all for the replies and suggestions. I did think about robotics clubs last night. I live near Nashville and I'm sure there are teams here. One major problem is money. I'm working part time to put food on the table. I have NO idea where one extra penny will come from! He is already involved with boy scouts... maybe there are some robotics projects he can do with boy scouts.

 

So, no one is really upset that our math has been MUS and he is planning on an engineering degree????

 

My son has done robotics projects through 4-H. Our local extension office owns NXT kits that kids can borrow. You may have the same option in your area. It would be a very low-cost way to get involved with robotics. In our area, the 4-H season begins in February, so now would be the time to make some inquiries.

[April in CA]

Thank you all for the replies and suggestions. I did think about robotics clubs last night. I live near Nashville and I'm sure there are teams here. One major problem is money. I'm working part time to put food on the table. I have NO idea where one extra penny will come from! He is already involved with boy scouts... maybe there are some robotics projects he can do with boy scouts.

 

So, no one is really upset that our math has been MUS and he is planning on an engineering degree????

 

Hello again, Pam!

 

Since money is an issue, and you already have MUS, I would stick with it. However, if you can augment it with something else, even if only to get more experience solving problems, I would - based on my son's friends experience with math at university. The internet can help here! Purplemath.com has an extensive catalog of lessons - I can't remember if there are lots of problems to solve, but the explanations made sense to me. KhanAcademy videos are quite good as well - you can access them through youtube. I think this is the correct name for another helpful site: coolmath.com (a little vague on the name, but the site was good!) You might want to start another thread asking about websites that can help with advanced math.

 

I was not aware that 4H did robotics - that would be worth checking out. Also, you might find a team that would let your son participate for free or in exchange for some administrative services from you. Lots of teams also do fund-raising! Hope this helps!

Blessings,

April

[8filltheheart]

 

So, no one is really upset that our math has been MUS and he is planning on an engineering degree????

 

Or they could be like me and not feel like getting into an argument with all those who will jump in stating that MUS is more than enough b/c they have heard all the success stories. :tongue_smilie:

 

If you want an "objection," I will attempt to offer insight.

 

If it were my child, I would not continue with MUS. I use the original MUS alg and geo combo book as pre-alg and pre-geo. They have revamped the program to separate them into individual courses and added the "honors" problems into the texts which does help them approach the level of other textbooks. I have never used the honors books.

 

Based on my experience with using the MUS alg/geo book (I'm on my 5th round this yr with my 6th grader), they have really needed to work hard the following 2 yrs when I have repeated alg with Foersters and geo with either Larson, Jacobs, or CDs new geo text.

 

My oldest ds is a sr majoring in chemE (not too far away from you at TTU). My 9th grade ds currently thinks he wants to major in astrophysics with either a double major or minor in math. I would not have wanted/want to send them out of our homeschool with the math education provided by MUS.

 

By far, AoPS has been the best math exposure I have personally seen. My oldest did not go that route b/c I was completely unaware of its existance. My 9th grader is.

 

My oldest used Foerster. I think it is a solid math program and will provide the foundation required. My 9th grader followed Foerster alg 1 and 2 with AoPS's alg 3 course. It is an excellent fast-paced course that I highly recommend. He completed alg 2 over the beginning of last school yr and enrolled in their alg 3 course which began in Mar and went through the summer. Their online courses move quickly and would allow your ds to cover multiple math topics.

 

Has your ds ever seen autocad? Mechanical engineers spend a lot of time using autocad. ;) It might be worth seeing if you can find an ME that might let him shadow them for awhile so he understands what it entails and inspire higher dedication to math. :D

Edited January 12, 2011 by 8FillTheHeart

[Pam L in Mid Tenn]

8fill:

Thank you!

I'm not looking for a "fight" just honest INSIGHT.

Your post is very helpful!

 

There is something in me that says that MUS alone is not enough for this particular student. MUS is a good foundation for understanding, but he'll need more. I've heard great things about Forrester and will research that again. I did look into it for my girls, but they needed understanding more than challenge.

 

I am concerned about what I'll be able to teach. He may need a course or two in math at a CC before jumping into an engineering major.

 

I'm also going to look into Art of Problem Solving. (AACCCKKKK!!! I can not afford this!!!) Thanks anyway for the suggestion!

 

Once again,

Thanks for being the dissenting vote and giving me the much needed "other side"!

Edited January 13, 2011 by Pam L in Mid Tenn
more info

[8filltheheart]

Pam,

 

Since you say money is an issue, I wanted to make sure that you realized that the AoPS texts have complete solutions manuals and you don't have to take the online courses.

 

Also, are you aware that in TN that your students can receive $300/semester ($600/academic yr) toward dual enrollment? http://www.tn.gov/CollegePays/mon_college/dual_enroll_grant_rules.htm

[Pegasus]

Here's why we like MUS here for our future potential scientists/engineers. I excelled in math and engineering courses even though I used a superficial "plug and chug" approach. With MUS, I feel like my DC are understanding math on a level that didn't at their age. They understand much more why math is done in a certain way and what the meaning is behind it.

 

That said, I am verifying their learning with other resources. At younger ages, we use Singapore's Challenging Word Problems to force them to think through more complex problems from different angles. When my eldest was ready to start Algebra I, I used Lial's BCM to be sure she knew what she needed to know. I simply had her take the test at the beginning and she reviewed just a few topics where she was weak.

 

She is now half-way through MUS Geometry and we plan to continue using MUS. I plan to use a second resource to confirm that her algebra skills are strong once she completes MUS Algebra II. Finally, I plan for her to take pre-calculus through dual enrollment once she is done with MUS pre-calc. I'm confident that she'll hit college calculus much more prepared than I was!

 

Best of luck to your future mechanical engineer!

Pegasus

[Pam L in Mid Tenn]

Yes. I did know about that grant for dual enrollment, but I had forgotten! Thanks for the reminder.

 

Pegasus: What resource do you plan to use for after MUS Algebra 2?

Thanks everyone!

[Pegasus]

Yes. I did know about that grant for dual enrollment, but I had forgotten! Thanks for the reminder.

 

Pegasus: What resource do you plan to use for after MUS Algebra 2?

Thanks everyone!

 

I'm not positive yet. I have Lial's Algebra books as well and it's pretty simple to use the pre-test at the beginning to look for gaps/weaknesses so we may go that route.

 

Pegasus

[burleygirl]

Just my 2 cents - As someone with a Chemical Engineering degree, I think it is most important to have a solid background in math through Algebra II/Trigonometry. Granted I took AP Calculus in high school, but whenever I was tutoring any student who was failing Calculus - their problem was always with Algebra. They did not appear to have a solid Algebra background so I spent most of the tutoring sessions reviewing Algebra concepts. I am also one of those students who has never had a problem with math and I do not remember how I was taught math (why vs how). I was just always good at it and never had a problem. If I did I would keep reading the book until I figured it out myself. Either way, make sure he is solid in Algebra.