My Father's World or Winter Promise or Tapestry of Grace???

[hsmomsg]

Hi,

 

I am looking into My Father's World, Winter Promise, or Tapestry of Grace for grades 2nd-6th. I don't know much about MFW or WP, and a litte about TOG. I would like any information you can provide.

 

What does a day look like with each of these? How much teacher prep, time, hands on projects, etc.. is there?

 

I would like a good balance of reading, worksheets, and hands on. Do you like the Instructor's Guide? Is it mom friendly or time intensive?

 

Anything else you would like to add would be greatly appreciated. Thank you so much in advance for all your insight!

 

Sincerely,

Stephanie:bigear:

[profmom]

Which programs are you looking at with each company?

 

Here are some general observations based on the programs I've used:

 

~ There are some similarities -- "real" books are used in each, and they each have a grid-based schedule.

 

~ Tapestry has weekly schedules and MFW & WP both have daily schedules.

 

~ Comparing MFW & WP may be easier -- you can look closely at the books used in each on the site and get a feel for what the program will be like. You could even check out some of the core books at the library to see which you like best. WP may include more "living books" than MFW, at least on the schedule. WP's reading schedule seemed more full. MFW's book basket gives you more books on the topics, but there are less books scheduled.

 

~ Book basket vs. assigned reading -- MFW lists books by week to check out from the library for a student browsing/reading time each day. My dc didn't do very well with this -- they do much better when I assign books to them. WP has readers & a schedule available, and TOG includes assigned reading per stage. (Biblioplan also gives reading assignments per grade, in addition to the grid schedule and the use of "real" books. Have you also looked at Biblioplan? :-) )

 

~ Teacher's notes -- do you want a lot of historical background for each week and help with dialectic or rhetoric level Socratic discussions? (TOG) Do you want a TM that is scripted in areas? ("Say...." = MFW.) Do you want beginning of the year instructions, but almost no notes throughout? (WP)

 

~ MFW CtG doesn't have worksheets, but it does have coloring pages and timeline figures. We didn't do many projects.

 

WP's American Story 1 (the only of their programs I've used) included many easy paper crafts that we did, timeline figures (which we liked), and make-your-own history book pages, which we didn't like -- most seemed to be a history summary paragraph with a blank space for the student's drawing.

 

TOG includes student questions (accountability and discussion) and project/craft books. However, I can't compare TOG with the others yet because I'm moving to TOG for next year and haven't used it yet.

 

Are you a new homeschooler? I think MFW would be the easiest to use. It also includes science on it's schedule, which can be nice. WP's schedule was full enough that I had a difficult time fitting in science.

 

 

There are many other points that could be made, but does that help for a start? At least my post will bump the thread up where others will see it. :)

[hsmomsg]

That does help! Thank you. And, I have never heard of Biblioplan. I am going to check it out right now. I have been homeschooling for 7 years, but we have used Abeka, Alpha Omega, and Sonlight. I am just now learning about all of these wonderful options that I never knew were available before. I have no idea what "well trained mind" actually is or means, but I do like the classical Charlotte Mason type of learning, now that I have discovered it!! :D

 

Thanks so much,

Stephanie

[PeterPan]

Stephanie, you should also add VeritasPress (VP) to your list. You have a card and worksheets for each week, with activities, writing assignments, etc. for the whole spread of grade levels you gave (2nd-6th). The cards list spine readings, but then you can fill in with a book basket (the CM element you're looking for). Prep time is minimal once you organize yourself for the year (print out the worksheets, gather your books, etc.).

 

WTM=Well-Trained Mind by Susan Wise Bauer and Jessie Wise. It should be available at your local library, and it's worth buying.

[CarynB]

We've used TOG and have switched to MFW. The only problem I had with TOG is that for our family at this time it was too much. My oldest is only 6 with 4 more younger than her. We have Year 1 and Year 2 and will use them when our oldest is closer to 12 or so I think. In the meantime we've switched to MFW and we LOVE it!

[dalynnrmc]

If you've used Sonlight, then it is easy to compare Winter Promise to that. It is literature based and scheduled much like SL, but has more hands-on and a not quite as busy reading schedule. (And, IMHO, the reading is more fit to the level.)

 

And I agree that MFW, of those on the list, would probably be easiest to implement.

 

I looked at Biblioplan several months ago, and deemed it a suitable choice. LOL

[SnowWhite]

What does a day look like with each of these? How much teacher prep, time, hands on projects, etc.. is there?

 

I would like a good balance of reading, worksheets, and hands on. Do you like the Instructor's Guide? Is it mom friendly or time intensive?

 

I can only answer about WP because I have never done TOG or MFW.

 

Teacher prep- very minimal. You set up your supplies at the beginning of the year and look at a list of activities/supplies to get materials as far in advance as you like. You can do all your reproducible copying at the beginning of the year if you like.

 

Time- There is time spent reading history/science material aloud to the children and discussing it. I anticipate spending a couple of hours on history and science starting in the fall (we didn't have both subjects in grade 1). Then we also spend 1-2 hours on Math and LA (depending on how much ds dawdles).

 

Hands-on: There is a smorgasboard of activities from which to choose. This also depends on the program you choose. Older students have more experiment and research activities while younger children have more coloring and paper type crafts.

 

I would say WP is a great blend of hands-on, paper/pencil, and literature.

 

The instructor guide is my favorite part of WP. It is ONE page weekly for your theme. Then there is an Independent Study sheet you can give older students for their own little assignments. VERY easy to implement.

 

My reasons for choosing WP over MFW or TOG:

The IG seems simpler.

I don't have to use my library.

[profmom]

That does help! Thank you. And, I have never heard of Biblioplan. I am going to check it out right now. I have been homeschooling for 7 years, but we have used Abeka, Alpha Omega, and Sonlight. I am just now learning about all of these wonderful options that I never knew were available before. I have no idea what "well trained mind" actually is or means, but I do like the classical Charlotte Mason type of learning, now that I have discovered it!! :D

 

Thanks so much,

Stephanie

 

The programs you listed all have similarities with SL. Biblioplan began as a way for a group of SL moms to arrange their history chronologically in a 4-year cycle to follow The Well-Trained Mind (TWTM). The others were probably influenced by SL too (but I don't know for certain) -- all have the column/grid schedule similiar to SL's.

 

You could find a lot of previous discussions comparing the various programs by using the forum's search feature with the abbreviations for a couple of the programs at a time -- WP SL would likely bring up comparisons of those two, etc.

[Donna A.]

How much Bible do you want integrated? MFW has a strong biblical worldview, and that is weaved into all subjects. Bible isn't a separate subject... it's part of life. There are lessons "assigned" for Bible, but then you see Bible principles and history popping up in all the other subjects, too.

 

The weekly (not daily) lesson plan grid includes lessons for all subjects and a time box for the 3 R's so that you make sure not to forget. ;) They do have recommendations for the 3 R's and enrichment subjects like art and music, but you can use whatever you want. If using their recommendations in those subjects and following their suggested schedule, you can be done by or about noon every day, including all subjects. Older students might have to do some extra work in the afternoon. They also schedule "light and independent" Fridays for catch-up work, field trips, housecleaning or whatever you need to do. The daily plans on that weekly grid aren't dated so that you can adjust the schedule however you need to, like for example if Dad has Tuesdays off. You can work around that. It's very flexible, but it's there to hold your hand if you need it.

 

There's a limited number of books scheduled into the daily/weekly lesson plans so that you have TIME for flexibility. The scheduled (required) books are a mix of literature, textbooks and a few Usborne books used as reference material, and consumables for individual student assignments. The method of learning is primarily notebooking, along with narration (both written and oral), copywork, dictation, both read-alouds and independent reading, research projects, plenty of repetition in the younger grades with less repetition in the older. Learning style in the early years is concrete, and becomes more abstract each year.

 

The Book Basket is a very extensive, *optional* booklist inside the TM of over 400 titles of varying genres and reading levels. It also includes video recommendations. We have an awesome library system and have found almost everything I went looking for, but you're not obligated to choose the exact titles listed. The idea is to find books that go along with the theme of the weekly lesson to enrich the lessons as time and interest allow. I like to call it the gravy on the meat and potatoes. ;)

 

There's a big jump in skill level between years 1 and 2 and years 4 and 5, which is why they recommend starting with ECC and following the cycle as written. This is true for both teacher and student... we jumped from Adventures (written for 2nd/3rd graders) to Rome to Reformation, and we're now going to be doing ECC. When I got my ECC manual, I was surprised at how EASY it looks compared to RTR! But if you have a junior higher doing ECC, there are additional materials recommended to make it age appropriate. Some people miss that.

 

MFW is meant to be family-oriented, so as to keep everyone together for as long as possible. They want your family to become a "team", growing and learning together, preparing for adulthood. A high schooler doing MFW would then be working mostly independently with a weekly meeting time with Mom or Dad, and adding community service as well. They call it a "university style education". There's also a discipleship element built into the program through the process of learning who Christ is, then growing in Christ, and finally, serving Christ.

 

There's definitely a learning curve when first going into MFW, and I'll say that now after having used MFW for about 2-1/2 years, it takes a little time to see the "fruit" of what you're doing. If you do choose MFW, my advice is to relax and enjoy the easy parts, then seek out help when you get to the harder parts. But keep on going... it's worth it. :)

[Donna A.]

Also wanted to add that for those who can't or don't like to use the library, buying some titles off the Book Basket list (or other titles of your choice) is perfectly fine, too. Marie has asterisked some of the titles on the list that she recommends for purchase if you have to do it that way. It makes my job a whole lot easier, as I know that if we ever move away from this incredible library system that we have, I can still use MFW. :001_smile:

[mommaduck]

MFW is least intensive planning-wise. The books are easily found/included. The schedule is there. There is a balance of reading, worksheets, and activities. The costs are upfront rather than hidden. It includes art, music, and science. Gives suggestions for grammar and math.

 

TOG is very planning intensive. I own a year of the classic and many books were difficult to find or out of print. The hidden costs are in coming up with copies, activities, and finding those rare books. We had to skip much here and there, simply because I couldn't afford to come up with items suggested for this chapter or that. If I had known upfront what was there, I could have counted it in with the cost or skipped over the program for another. TOG is also fast paced. I could see it with a highschool student, but not Grammar stage.

 

VP alot of money as you are paying for each part of the program separately. Love the cards and the CDs. The worksheets are great for those that are already used to doing writing and have grammar down. However, I believe that there could be added more activities and "fun sheets" to the program. A little more guidance would be nice...I felt like we were just barely touching on things with it. As a large family, I would have liked it if it had been more Unit Study like and could've included all the children and had the subject reach into other subjects. Since I don't have the time to do that much planning and coming up with ideas, it just didn't work.

 

In the end, you have to figure out what you are looking for. Are you the type that just wants a framework and to put it together yourself or do you need it already scheduled for you? Do you want a Unit Study or just a History program? How large is your family and what is your family life like? Are you on a budget or can you just go pick things up at the drop of a hat?

 

Go with what works for you...this is just how things worked out for us.

[profmom]

As OhElizabeth is fond of saying, all of these are good programs! :D

[PeterPan]

Oh Profmom, you're a hoot! I can't believe anyone is quoting me. :)

 

Yes, they're all fine and have their place. The only reason I even stuck my nose in with the VP comment was because she specifically mentioned worksheets. I'm not quite sure I understand the expense comment about VP, as it would be no more expensive than any of the other options she listed and possibly less. (one set of cards with enhanced cd for the tm, a couple spines, and use the library beyond that) The tm's have been revamped, so sometimes reviews are based on the OLD editions. For instance when they updated OTAE, they literally DOUBLED the contents of the tm!! I only figured this out because I had borrowed a friend's old edition tm and then got the new on the enhanced cd, went to print it out and realized there were double the pages, lol. It now has answer keys, lots of writing assignments, art history, lit guides, etc. incorporated. Sure I could see how we could want more, but it really has enough, for the money you spend, to do quite nicely with those ages. Lots of people are using it with a spread of kids and finding it works great. Check out the yahoo group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vp_elementary :)

 

When you chose a curriculum (and this is directed to the op), you really need to determine exactly what you're looking for and what you're willing to bring to it yourself. None of them are PERFECT, so you're looking for the one that gets you most of the way there and leaves you with a bit of necessary supplementing that you feel comfortable tackling. If you really want worksheets, as in it's non-negotiable, then you could mark off several of those options you listed. If you want tons of hands-on included, mark off some. But you know, hands-on are something you can add just with an extra book or two and some effort at the beginning of the year or unit to select a few. That's what I'm saying, that sometimes it's better to select the program you like and feel comfortable with, the one that gets you most of the way there, and supplement the areas that are lacking. Sometimes when you try to get one curriculum that does EVERYTHING, it ends up doing none of it to your satisfaction. Take for instance TOG, which I think is a very fine curriculum. It has just about everything (multi-age teaching, reading assignments, crafts, lapbooking, worksheets and lit study pages, videos, support groups), but what if you end up not LIKING those student worksheets? And what if those worksheets were a big deal to you? Then it would be better to find the curriculum you like that meets YOUR specific goals (has the kind of worksheets you're looking for) and then add in a craft book to get the crafts, add in TQ to get more extensive literature lists. It's not hard, not rocket science. If I can do it and I don't like history, anyone can. ;)

 

There, philosophical discource on buying history curricula over. :)

[mommaduck]

My point was that the History and Bible programs are totally separate. I wanted something more complete and the cost comes in in buying each separately. Please also note the bottom of my post where I stated that these were my experiences. What doesn't work for me might be exactly what someone else is looking for. I actually like VP, but it just didn't work for us in several ways. I also did not have the expanded CD. I like hardcopy and could not afford to purchase both at the time.

[profmom]

That's good advice, Elizabeth! The programs listed have much in common, but there are some differences. If you feel strongly about one of those differences, you are better off comparing that aspect of each program.

 

I like OhElizabeth's reminder (about how we are often choosing between a stack of programs that are all good) because it helps me to relax and not be as stressed out about making the perfect decision (especially since I'm a researcher and I tend to be indecisive).

[Robin in DFW]

nt

[babybryte]

The one thing that I didn't like about MFW was having to go the library so much for the books. With WP, you would have the books with you at home. But if you don't mind going to the library a lot and planning out what books to get, then MFW is great!

 

 

 

Jacquelyn

[Donna A.]

Actually, one doesn't *have* to rely on the library to use MFW. The author took that into consideration when writing the curriculum, but the Basic and Deluxe packages do include everything *needed* to accomplish the program... all those books (literature and reference) are written into the lesson plans. The use of the library comes in when mom wants to add more *optional* reading and videos for their child(ren). But the author and/or her family have pre-read every single book on the list (over 400 titles), and she has asterisked those which are her recommended purchases if you prefer to do it that way. Also, I know a lot of people buy books from SL to have on hand rather than using the library. Many of the same titles are on the MFW Book Basket list.

[Felicia]

I have been homeschooling for 7 years, but we have used Abeka, Alpha Omega, and Sonlight. I am just now learning about all of these wonderful options that I never knew were available before. I have no idea what "well trained mind" actually is or means, but I do like the classical Charlotte Mason type of learning, now that I have discovered it!! :D

 

Thanks so much,

Stephanie

 

Hi Stephanie,

I am in the exact same boat with you, except I used BJU mainly. I've just recently discovered CM (Charlotte Mason) myself. This is a wonderful board and you will find a wealth of information here. I myself will probably use TOG this coming year just. Jessica, which you will probably meet here at some point, said it best about TOG I think. She said something like TOG is like a buffet and you get to fill your plate as you please from all the different and wonderful things offered. Nobody just hands you a full plate, you get to pick and choose what you want to do.

 

For me personally I like that. I like that it is structured enough to keep me going but that I get to pick and choose resources that we learn from.

You can go to their website and request free material and that might help you to decide also. Also, I know a lot of people here like the Truthquest series as well. I know nothing about it except that I think it something like Biblioplan. Just another you might be interested in.

 

Anyhow, good luck with everything, and know that someone is right there with you learning as well.

Have a wonderful day!:001_smile:

[siloam]

Well I am hoping for your sanity you have already made a decision. But if not here is my take on the 3:

 

MFW has the most in depth teacher schedule, will incorporate the Bible the most and will have the lightest reading schedule, the base schedule, you can add more from the reading list. I haven't done MFW, this is from friends who have (and have done WP).

 

WP is a unit study, and the weekly reading and crafts revolve around that topic. It has a daily schedule, craft project lists, movie lists, just a lot of little things that help. Bible generally light, and not always integrated. The exception to that would be Quest for the Ancients and Quest for the Middle Ages, which use MOH as a spine, and MOH is not light on Bible, but these are the exception. The levels of WP I did had tons of crafts/activities.

 

TOG is like putting any program on steroids. I LOVE it but it really isn't for everyone. It also has a weekly topic that everything revolves around. Bible is integrated, but unlike MFW which breaks the Bible up in such a way that you continue to study it even after you have covered the time in history in which is happened, TOG sticks to covering it just when it comes up in history. After that it will continue with Church history, Missionary biographies, and worldview studies. I am told year 4 has a Revelation study as well, but I haven't looked at it to see what that entails.

 

TOG includes:

History core

History in depth (biographies, and other topics going on at the same time the main topic).

Fine Arts (Music and Art)

Bible/Church history/World View/Missionary stories

Literature-includes worksheets and discussion questions (two different things), which are comprehension focused in LG, UG and analysis focused in D and R.

Activities-anywhere from crafts to plays-not as many as WP has. This includes doing state cards and president cards as you go along in your studies.

Vocab-words chose for you, and defined on the Evaluations CD.

Timeline

People study included-bios on the Evaluations CD, great for notebookers

Mapping-CD has maps for different levels and answer keys, mapping is more in-depth than anything I saw in WP or SL. Where to map is in the base program and doesn't require the use of the CD's.

Comprehension Questions-these are based on the history topic and are more topic specific than book specific so you can substitute other history books-you are not locked into their choices. These also more more into thinking questions at the R level.

12 levels of writing assignments

Writing Aids-Explains all the forms they introduce in their writing program, many have examples of real children's writing, and helps in teaching it. The WP CD, which comes with the book, has printable explanations for the child to read, pre-writing forms, and grading evaluations to use in grading your child's paper.

Evaluations CD-Has additional questions, or written project type evaluations with Rubics for grading them. I am also told they have the Bios for the people and the vocab definitions.

PopQuiz-Intended for Dad, but mom can use it as well. It is an oral summary of the Teacher Notes.

Teacher Notes-Keeps mom on top of what is being studied without having to read the books. It also includes scripture, like when covering humanism scripture is included that shows the Biblical perspective.

Government Study-for D and R level

Philosophy study- for D and R level (I really adore this!) It is done by reading and by doing a 2 person play between a seeker of truth and different philosophers that is pre-written and just needs read. Any time they quote the philosopher's words directly they bold the type.

 

As you can tell TOG has a lot. So much so I see a TON of people buy it and turn around and sell it a week later just because they are so overwhelmed. I can fit my WP AW guide into a 1" binder while my TOG year 3 takes up 4 three inch binders and I keep the booklist and writing assignments (separate in classic, not in redesign) in a 1" binder.

 

TOG works for me because I knew exactly what I wanted and tweaked everything else I used. If you can use a program as just open and go, then TOG is probably not for you. I re-wrote SL and WP just to make it our own. The planning required in TOG is just more of the same old here.

 

Heather

 

[mommaduck]

I love the idea of TOG being the others on Steroids! No kidding there!

 

We've done Weaver, Veritas, TOG, and MFW...we're sticking with MFW!

[amary]

We used TOG when it first came out. Our lives revolved around it, so that lasted only a year. Winter Promise is fun in the same way as Sonlight, but for ease of use and ability to add things along we like My Father's World. It's just easier to combine kids and to tweek without going horribly in debt. Much cheaper, same results and fun.

[sweetbaby]

Actually, one doesn't *have* to rely on the library to use MFW. The author took that into consideration when writing the curriculum, but the Basic and Deluxe packages do include everything *needed* to accomplish the program... all those books (literature and reference) are written into the lesson plans. The use of the library comes in when mom wants to add more *optional* reading and videos for their child(ren). But the author and/or her family have pre-read every single book on the list (over 400 titles), and she has asterisked those which are her recommended purchases if you prefer to do it that way. Also, I know a lot of people buy books from SL to have on hand rather than using the library. Many of the same titles are on the MFW Book Basket list.

 

 

:iagree: We chose MFW because of the wonderful literature lists provided, the well prepared teacher plans, the unit study approach of combining all subjects (Bible, Art, Music, History/Geography, and Science) with a certain period of study. We don't mind having frequent library trips for any extra books that we decide to use because we visit the library often anyway. We love the CM approach with its short lessons, nature studies, composer studies, etc. The short lessons allows for the more time to further explore certain topics of interests for our dc and it allows free time for certain activities in the afternoons. I love the way that subjects get more intense as you go along in the years according to dc's developmental stages. And the cost is wonderful for the quality of curriculum provided.

 

I have never used WP or TOG although I know some moms who have. They have excellent reviews also.