Singapore Science's My Pals Are Here questions

[sagira]

Mom2Moon put a great concept: combining Singapore Science's MPH and BFSU. Has anyone done this? My ds is visual, and although we both enjoy BFSU, I would like to use it as a spine and have a bit of more color and spark in something workbooky but simple. Yes, it's early and I'm 7 months pregnant so please bear with me :)

 

I'm debating which MPH to get. I want to take advantage of the great Rainbow Resource Center offer ($25 free shipping). I think it was suggested to use BFSU Volume I with MPH 3/4 and BFSU II with MPH 5/6, buy ds is only going to be 8 next year. We're finishing up BFSU I this year, and I'm considering getting MPH 3/4 for the remainder of the year (don't know yet which ones line up exactly with the topics in BFSU I so I'm considering getting all of the 3/4 ones).

 

Has anyone used MPH 3/4? Would it be too advanced for a 7-year-old second grader?

 

TIA!

[susankenny]

Are there any other places to see samples, I wonder?

 

 

Yes, cbd.com has samples too.

 

 

Susan

[Dana]

We're using MPH 3/4 with my son who's 8 and in 3rd grade. These are my opinions based on how we're using the program. YMMV!!

 

First, you can see some other samples at the Singapore site: here. They also have a forum where you can ask questions, although there's more discussion on the math side than the science side.

 

If you use only the textbook and the workbook, the program would be very very light. There are 5 text/wb combos. The order the program suggests is: Diversity, Cycles (use in Gr 3), Systems, Interactions, Energy (use in Gr 4).

 

We're still in Diversity and we're halfway through our year (although I skip science more often than I should).

 

I think the Homework book and the Higher Order Thinking Skills book (HOTS) are very important parts of the program to make it challenging. I think the HOTS book is where a lot of the actual thinking comes in. For instance, one problem had a table with "lab results" that my son had to then interpret. He had to do subtraction of two-digit numbers to find how much water had been absorbed every hour for both an experiment and a control. Then he had to graph that data on a line graph and answer questions about it. I don't think he would have been able to do it last year without a LOT of help. I also am using the Tests book to check for retention. It is challenging.

 

I have the Teachers Manual and the More Notes book. I don't think I'd get More Notes again. It has 1-2 experiments (often that you need supplemental supplies for) and more information on each topic (background info and more in-depth info).

 

The TM is not essential and is designed for classroom use. It has wraparounds for all 5 texts and workbooks. It has "Reading Material for Teachers" which gives a bit more in depth info on each topic (less than the More Notes book, but probably enough). The "Lesson Plans" help some in pacing and in providing extra things to do with the textbook. It also has a number of websites linked for extra info and teaching. Unfortunately, a number of the sites are down or links have changed in the 2 years since publication of the TM. :glare:

 

I do not find MPH to be "open and go". Some of that may be how I approach teaching my son and my planning techniques.

 

I do think that I would have been disappointed to just use the text/wb. Both are very small. We do activities from the TM along with the text/wb for each chapter, doing additional reading on some subjects, then the HW, then the HOTS, then Tests (when they come up - and they are challenging!).

 

I have a spreadsheet (Excel) that's a bit hectic but it has my working notes of sections in the text, websites, and supplies needed. If you're interested, email me through my contact info and I'll send it to you.

[sagira]

Since BFSU is my main text, and I would be using MPH as a supplement, I wonder if I could possibly use the text for ds to read independently, the workbook, the homework and the tests. The Higher Order Thinking Skills sounds too difficult for my ds, as he's still in MM 1B and we haven't gotten to two-digit subtraction yet.

 

Can anyone compare 3/4 and 5/6 for me and see if the topics are the same, but just get more difficult? I guess I could take a good hard look at the samples again.

 

Thanks.. Keep them coming! I would like to know as much as possible before proceeding.

[Crimson Wife]

I have some of the MPH 5/6 textbooks & workbooks and they are pretty light. I use them as part of a unit-studies approach so it hasn't been that big a deal. But now I'm thinking that the HOTS book might be something good to get.

[ondreeuh]

We're using 3/4. We just finished the biggest book, Diversity, which is way easy for my 9 year old. I'm sure it would be fine for a 7 year old. The textbook is very "light". Experiments and activities are in the activity book. We use the homework and HOTS books to go deeper. HOTS even gives you topics to research.

 

I'm not really familiar with BFSU but I wonder if it would be better to use MPH as the spine and add in BFSU units that correlate. I think MPH is a great spine for *my* kid because he benefits from the written component and test-taking practice. It is also a great springboard for further study. In Diversity we grew bacteria & mold on petri dishes, observed mold growing on damp and toasted bread, examined lots of plants, and tested various materials for their properties (all in the activity book) plus we researched why some scientists disagree on whether viruses are living or non-living, took a field trip to a tree farm, and started a Winogradsky column to study microorganisms.

 

We do science most days, so we'll finish up 3/4 this year and hopefully get to Elemental Chem.

 

Oh, I did make things easier by cutting off the binding of the activity, homework, and HOTS books and trimming them down to 11" in height. Then I shuffled the pages so that all the components for each chapter were grouped together, and bound them in new workbooks. So for Diversity we used the Diversity text, and then I had a self-made workbook that consisted of the activity, homework and HOTS pages for Diversity, organized by chapter. We were able to just work our way straight through and that way it was really open-and-go. Now that we're done I can put both the text and wb away and pull out the text and wb for Cycles.

[sagira]

Thanks for the help, mamas.

 

Anything else? More people who use MPH here?

:bigear:

[sagira]

I've been going over the samples and I like what I see of the Higher Order Thinking Skills. One more question pops up: do the higher order skills problems have an answer key?

[Arch at Home]

We find MPH to be deceptably easy. The amount of information covered in the text may be less but amount of higher level thinking skills required exceeds anything else we do. I holding off on starting MPH 34 until next year with my 7 year old.

[sagira]

We find MPH to be deceptably easy. The amount of information covered in the text may be less but amount of higher level thinking skills required exceeds anything else we do. I holding off on starting MPH 34 until next year with my 7 year old.

 

The thing is, from K to now 2nd grade, we've been using BFSU, which covered most all the topics covered in MPH's 3/4. As I'm planning on continuing with BFSU II next school year, and the topics are more advanced (cell division, electricity, and beginning optics. As mom2moon (where are you? :)) mentioned previously, those topics coordinate better with MPH 5/6.

 

What I want to do is get all of them! MPH 3/4 and MPH 5/6, as neither will be wasted - I have a three-year-old who in a few years will be able to use them anyway. They look excellent, and an awesome supplement for BFSU. I say supplement because BFSU has such a unique, interactive way of helping me set up and present a lesson, and the discussion points are great. If I can combine the oral and exploratory nature of BFSU with the visual and critical thinking writing that comes with MPH, it would be perfect for us IMHO. I would still want to add at least one living book per lesson, but having MPH's textbook makes for nice independent reading. Ds will be mature enough to make better, more cohesive mini books, as suggested in BFSU, after the repetition and reinforcement provided in MPH. I would take my time and have ds do each lesson in BFSU for 2 weeks instead of just one.

[Ummto4]

Sagira ...

 

I just saw your post.

 

Yes, we're using BFSU (k-2) with MPH 3-4. I admit I tried to use BFSU when my son was 1st grade, but it's too advanced for him. Mind you, according to BFSU you have to start with classifying skills and do the 'matter' study next. It's the matter study which held us up.

 

So during his first grade, we just read around animal stories, and I basically responded to his questions, such as about volcanos, gravities, outer space, etc.

 

We started MPH 3-4 Diversity during his 2nd grade, when he was just over 7.5. We used everything from the MPH set, including the test. We didn't buy the TM and More Notes though. I supplemented the classification study with few topics from RSO Life (especially in spring, where we can find snails and roly poly, etc).

 

This year, my son is 3rd grade, and we start with matter as recommended by BFSU. Now, MPH makes this job easier because it has the text and workbooks corresponding to BFSU. The problem with BFSU is lack of text where children can read about and there's no worksheet at all. That's why using MPH makes the concepts easier to teach and it's easy for me also, because I don't have to hunt around library books.

 

You can have a look around MPH S&S and try to match up BFSU with that. But if you've done BFSU, may be you can revisit the concept using MPH, and move to MPH 5/6 and Nebel Science #2 once you finish MPH 3/4 ?

Edited December 5, 2010 by mom2moon2

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

What is BFSU? Any links?:D

[ondreeuh]

I've been going over the samples and I like what I see of the Higher Order Thinking Skills. One more question pops up: do the higher order skills problems have an answer key?

 

Yes, at the back of the HOTS book. The answers to the homework are at the back of the homework book, and the answers to the activity books are in the TG.

[prairiebird]

Oh, I did make things easier by cutting off the binding of the activity, homework, and HOTS books and trimming them down to 11" in height. Then I shuffled the pages so that all the components for each chapter were grouped together, and bound them in new workbooks. So for Diversity we used the Diversity text, and then I had a self-made workbook that consisted of the activity, homework and HOTS pages for Diversity, organized by chapter. We were able to just work our way straight through and that way it was really open-and-go. Now that we're done I can put both the text and wb away and pull out the text and wb for Cycles.

 

 

Wow. That would have made things a million times easier on me to do that! I love that idea! How creative! We are not using it right now only because my son was complaining about all the examples being about Singapore, and he had trouble relating to some of it. I'll probably go back to it with my daughter next year though! I used MPH as my spine and used library materials and museum visits as part of it. But I live near Chicago and can frequent some hefty museums, so if I didn't have that option, I'd probably still use MPH as the spine and sup with more library items.

[ondreeuh]

It definitely makes it easier to use. Since the activity, HOTS and homework pages are perforated, you can just pull them out, trim them down and organize them in a binder. I tried finding a binder that was compatible and had no luck, but the trimming works. If I remember correctly I trimmed a little off the top and more off the bottom.

[sagira]

What is BFSU? Any links?:D

 

It's Building Foundations of Scientific Understanding, and Dr. Nebel has two books: K-2 and 3-5. This is the first book:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Building-Foundations-Scientific-Understanding-Curriculum/dp/1432706101

 

This is the second book:

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1432762362/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=1432706101&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0QXAZ3WRXVV2JDV87AAJ

[sagira]

We used BFSU K-2 literally from Kindergarten to 2nd grade, and taking it slowly to make sure he understood the concepts. This year we're finishing up with BFSU, and ds, who just turned 7 in September, will be 8 when we start with BFSU II, and thus I was thinking to start up with MPH 5/6..

 

Thanks, Mom2moon2 too :)

[Mom-ninja.]

I ordered 3/4 for my 9 yr old and is was too easy. He was bored.

 

Oh, and I have 3/4 teacher guide, homework text, Interactions, and Energy books that I'd love to pass on if you want to PM me.

[JuliaM]

Hi,

The download of BFSU is available for $5. See this thread:

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=221375

I really like MPH particularly the colourful text books, which has a magazine feel about it. My son is eight years old. We have just finished diversity. One day we read the text book chapter and then we do a workbook or activity sheet. We do this everyday so I might split the worksheets into two days depending on the size. We also use the end of chapter summaries as memory work. I think this is quite light and so we also do Elemental Science a couple of times a week - astronomy at the moment-and read Apologia Astronomy as additional reading. I hadn't been aware of BFSU until I saw the above thread and so I am also investigating incorporating it into MPH. At $5 for an Ebook it is worth having as something to dip into although it doesn't appear quite as easy to use as the other courses I have mentioned.

Julia

[unity]

We find MPH to be deceptably easy. The amount of information covered in the text may be less but amount of higher level thinking skills required exceeds anything else we do. I holding off on starting MPH 34 until next year with my 7 year old.

 

:iagree::iagree:

 

The text looks/is very simplistic but the child is expected to do analytical thinking in the written work. I tried MPH 4 (older version) a few years ago with my dd (then 7) based on the look of the text and it was a total bomb because she couldn't make the cognitive leaps required in the written work. I'm doing it with her now with BFSU 2 and she is just now able to do the written work of 4 without a lot of handholding. She's ahead of grade level on math and reading, too, so I found the whole MPH thing interesting.

 

So I would recommend you get MPH 3/4, whether or not it lines up perfectly with BFSU.

 

By the way, although I'm doing the combo you are wondering about, I have to admit I'm not spending a lot of time making sure it all lines up, and I just kind of alternate which program I pull out. I enjoy having a variety of things to talk about, and I have been trying to line it up but it's not a big deal to me if one program is talking about the circulatory system and the other one density. I enjoy using both programs just because they are so different; it mixes things up a bit.

[sagira]

Yes, at the back of the HOTS book. The answers to the homework are at the back of the homework book, and the answers to the activity books are in the TG.

 

Thank you :)

[sagira]

Hmm.. It seems like the consensus is to repeat the info we learned in BFSU with MPH 3/4 and have ds do some critical thinking (we could always continue topical studies alongside that - third year soil studies, garden plants, microscopes and something else I can't remember right now).

 

I guess a review is not so bad. I just can imagine ds saying, hey, we got that already. But the stuff in BFSU II does seem a bit advanced. In 4th and 5th I had other plans (beginning Chemistry in 4th, beginning Physics in 5th, Astronomy in 6th alongside four weeks each of other topical study), but reading about MPH is interesting.

 

I have to admit this has more to do with my desire for ds to continue his studies (instead of reviewing), and me being excited about BFSU II than what could be, in fact, an excellent review for ds. Especially since some of the concepts were presented all the way back in K. We did review some with subsequent threads, but anyway.

 

I have a lot of thinking to do. Letting go of my ideals and plans is hard :tongue_smilie:

 

The way I see it I have three overarching options:

 

1. Continue with business as usual, just do topical studies (mentioned above), with BFSU II and perhaps a reading from MPH 5/6 textbook to correlate topics (can you tell I love correlating topics? ;))

 

2. Just do topical studies and review MPH 3/4

 

3. Do MPH 3/4, then BFSU II if we have time, 5/6 MPH.. No topical studies.. Or topical studies in the Summer if necessary

 

We do Natural Science (that's what we call it) four times a week, so I may be able to finish 3/4 early, as some PPs were saying.

Edited December 6, 2010 by sagira

[Crimson Wife]

FWIW, we follow the WTM 4 year cycle and it's been easy to pick out the various chapters in the MPH 5/6 books that cover physics topics. The books are so inexpensive that I didn't mind getting 3 of them.

[Guest]

Hi,

The download of BFSU is available for $5. See this thread:

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=221375

I really like MPH particularly the colourful text books, which has a magazine feel about it. My son is eight years old. We have just finished diversity. One day we read the text book chapter and then we do a workbook or activity sheet. We do this everyday so I might split the worksheets into two days depending on the size. We also use the end of chapter summaries as memory work. I think this is quite light and so we also do Elemental Science a couple of times a week - astronomy at the moment-and read Apologia Astronomy as additional reading. I hadn't been aware of BFSU until I saw the above thread and so I am also investigating incorporating it into MPH. At $5 for an Ebook it is worth having as something to dip into although it doesn't appear quite as easy to use as the other courses I have mentioned.

Julia

 

Just one thing to consider from my very brief experience. We are using BFSU (the K-2) book. We started 3 weeks ago and this will be the 4th. While I am a big fan of PDF programs and I have and use FLL, SOTW AG and RS4K Pre-Level 1 Biology, I would not get BFSU on PDF. Yes, for $5 it is a steal and worthwhile to have on hand as a resource for ideas but I know if I didn't have the book with my highlights to keep me on track with how I want to present the concepts (I number what I am covering and in the order I will cover it, directly on the book) it would not work for me. I would have to go back and forth in order to do this. Of course the other option would be to print the book. Hmmm... something to consider! Anyway, we are far from the second level book for now but we are definitely loving BFSU so far.

Edited December 6, 2010 by Guest

[Guest]

Just one thing to consider from my very brief experience. We are using BFSU (the K-2) book. We started 3 weeks ago and this will be the 4th. While I am a big fan of PDF programs and I have and use FLL, SOTW AG and RS4K Pre-Level 1 Biology, I would not get BFSU on PDF. Yes, for $5 it is a steal and worthwhile to have on hand as a resource for ideas but I know if I didn't have the book with my highlights to keep me on track with how I want to present the concepts (I number what I am covering and in the order I will cover it, directly on the book) it would not work for me. I would have to go back and forth in order to do this. Of course the other option would be to print the book. Hmmm... something to consider! Anyway, we are far from the second level book for now but we are definitely loving BFSU so far.

 

Oooops, the website says that it is for electronic enjoyment only. It cannot be printed, so I guess I can scrap that idea. Given the situation I think we will wait and buy the book when the time comes.

[sagira]

Oooops, the website says that it is for electronic enjoyment only. It cannot be printed, so I guess I can scrap that idea. Given the situation I think we will wait and buy the book when the time comes.

 

I would rather have the hard copy in my hands too. I'm ordering it next year, probably sooner rather than later. I like that you can see inside on Amazon. It gives me a good idea on the threads, content, etc.

[Guest]

I would rather have the hard copy in my hands too. I'm ordering it next year, probably sooner rather than later. I like that you can see inside on Amazon. It gives me a good idea on the threads, content, etc.

 

I got the K-2 book from Amazon also (although I would have purchased it from Rainbow if they carried it since they are my main supplier). I am really happy with it and if we continue like this I know I will be getting the next one also. My son is a tactile/ visual learner and he loves reading the books for correlated reading himself. We do the lesson in our school area on our mats (we call it mat time) or in the kitchen (we call that lab time). OK, so we like Sid the Science Kid :lol:. I make him a notebook page for his notebook and have him illustrate and write something he has learned from the lesson, as a keepsake.

 

My goal is to reuse BFSU K-2 next year again (I have my son registered as 1st grade since he has a late October birthday) with RS4K and Apologia. We are currently using BFSU and RS4K pre-level 1 Biology and my son loves both programs so far. Then when RS4K is done we will continue, the rest of the year (we school year round), with BFSU and Apologia Zoology 1. I intend to do the same next year. MPH is one I have been considering but I have purchased Start Up Science and still have the books so I am still on the fence with that. In any case, I will definitely stick with what is working ;).

[sagira]

I have decided what I'm going to do. Looking at the BFSU II topics, I find them somewhat advanced for right now. I'm going to do MPH 3/4 with ds, hopefully going faster and finishing all within the year. He should be reviewing topics and able to handle the homework and higher order thinking skills, as he's going to be 8.

 

We do science 4 times a week. Our plan is to do the following:

 

Day 1. Textbook and Activity Book

Day 2. Homework book

Day 3. Encyclopedia reading, living book, Happy Scientist video

Day 4. Higher Order Thinking Skills

 

I will be using BFSU K-2 as a teacher's resource for explanations and presentation.

 

What do you think?