Anyone doing Oerberg or Cambridge Latin with young children?

[ElizaG]

Has anyone tried starting Cambridge Latin or Oerberg's Lingua Latina with children in early elementary, i.e., in the 5 to 7 year old age range?

 

I'm not looking for theoretical opinions -- just feedback from people who've actually done this. I seem to recall reading posts from a few of them.

 

If you've started children at this age with another Latin curriculum that was originally written for middle/high school students (Galore Park, Henle, an old grammar, etc.), I'd be interested in hearing about this, too.

 

Thank you. :)

[ElizaG]

Oops, somehow managed to miss dmmetler's similar thread on Cambridge:

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=225576

 

I'd still be interested in hearing about your experiences with Oerberg or other "middle/high school" curricula at this age. :)

[nmoira]

Oops, somehow managed to miss dmmetler's similar thread on Cambridge:

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=225576

 

I'd still be interested in hearing about your experiences with Oerberg or other "middle/high school" curricula at this age. :)

Familia Romana ramps up quickly after Capitulum IV. Because of this, the slow pace in Oerberg is too tedious for very young children. I intend to revisit Oerberg with DD the Elder at 10, after Latin Prep 2 and Cambridge Unit 3.

 

DD the Elder started Latin Prep and Cambridge Unit 1 last summer at 7-1/2. We've been taking it very slowly, with an emphasis on vocabulary acquisition (yes, including flash cards). We spent almost a year and a half on these. She had already completed Big Book 1 of Lively Latin (little Latin grammar, much vocabulary) and half of Big Book 2 (we stopped only because it wasn't finished at this point). We spend a fair amount of time reading aloud in both programs, overly accenting the long vowels.

[ElizaG]

Thanks, Moira. I can see how using a very slow pace with Oerberg might be boring, unless we added a ton of supplementary games, worksheets, etc. Which is a possibility, but it might be too much for me to keep up with.

 

I think even Cambridge is going to need some major tweaking, as I'll be teaching 5 year old DS along with 7 year old DD. He's kept up with everything we've done so far, and seems to have a real love of language (e.g., makes up his own crossword puzzles and word games) -- but he's still very much a semi-wild kindergarten boy. :D

[freerange]

Have you looked at Minimus? http://www.minimus-etc.co.uk

[ElizaG]

We have Minimus and some other books intended for young children, and we all enjoy them, but they're pretty much intended as "appetizers" to get little folks interested in the language.

 

Our children are already interested, and now they actually want to learn to speak, read, and write in Latin. And teach it to their dolls and stuffed animals. (Our homeschool was founded on the principle that a classical education should be for everyone, not just humans. ;) )

[ElizaG]

Update...

 

I did start Cambridge with them tonight, and they enjoyed it. It made for lots of fun practice after dinner, when various family members were going back and forth between the dining room and the kitchen. :)

 

I'm guessing we'll probably spend around a week on each picture section or story, and another week on the "About the Language" section for each stage. At that pace, Unit I would take a full calendar year, which is 1/4 the intended speed (it was originally meant as a one-term course). But my guesses don't count for much around here. The inmates have a fair amount of say in the management of the asylum. :party:

[MamaBearTeacher]

I did the first book of Oerberg with DS8 and DS6 last year just after we did Minimus. My children have a strange and unique learning style. They seemed to like it and we did about 2 chapters a day for 3-4 days a week. If someone has completed and learned this book what level of latin are they considered to be? We plan to do the next book soon.

[ElizaG]

Thanks MamaBear, that's good to know. We did the first chapter of Oerberg a few months ago, and DD was very enthusiastic. DS, not so much. Maybe we can revisit it next year.

 

Did you just do the book as written, or did you use the supplements?

[ElizaG]

If someone has completed and learned this book what level of latin are they considered to be? We plan to do the next book soon.

If you don't find an answer to this here, you might try the Oerberg list:

 

http://nxport.com/mailman/listinfo/oerberg

[forty-two]

I did the first book of Oerberg with DS8 and DS6 last year just after we did Minimus. My children have a strange and unique learning style. They seemed to like it and we did about 2 chapters a day for 3-4 days a week. If someone has completed and learned this book what level of latin are they considered to be? We plan to do the next book soon.

My understanding is that Familia Romana covers all the grammar, and Roma Aeterna gives more practice plus a bridge to classical authors. However, you can start some of the easier authors after FR. Finishing FR is equivalent to finishing Wheelock's or CLC or another full grammar program.

[Laura Corin]

You asked about Galore Park: I started GP Latin Prep with Calvin when he was eight, but we went very slowly, not quite finishing three books in almost five years. Calvin was tested PG, although I think that's an overestimate. Hobbes is pretty darn bright (not tested) and nine was a good age to start him on Latin Prep at half speed. The books build up pretty fast - I'm glad I didn't use them any earlier.

 

Laura

[MamaBearTeacher]

Thank you for the web site Eleanor. We just went through the main text. I also got the CD which goes through the first 10 chapters. This is how I study everything with my sons though because of their combinations of disabilities and giftedness. So I guess it depends on the child.

[ElizaG]

Laura, I'm not sure that it's a matter of intelligence so much as emphasis. In centuries past, when Latin was the only subject taught in the early years of formal schooling, it wasn't that unusual for bright children to be finished with the grammar by age 9. We're not looking to match those results in our family, but we do have various reasons (both academic and non-academic) to make Latin a central subject. Our children start simple oral work at preschool age , and practice the language every day, even Sundays and holidays. Even though we're only doing short lessons at this age, it all adds up. With this sort of schedule, the "taster courses" designed for young children just don't last long.

 

BTW, the Memoria Press web site has a long and funny article by Dorothy Sayers about her perceptions of her own Latin education, which started when she was 6. The most striking aspect for me was that even after 14 years of study, she never developed a real facility for the language. Translation was always slow and laborious. She has some typical and not-so-typical advice for how to improve on the situation, and I'm planning to follow some of it (although MP doesn't seem to have paid much attention to it in developing their own courses).

[ElizaG]

Just for the sake of interest, here's an online copy of William Smith's Principia Latina, which Dorothy Sayers' father used to teach her the Accidence (declensions and conjugations).

[Dmmetler]

That's one reason why I'm thinking I'll add CLC in when DD finishes Minimus as our "2nd Latin program". DD loves Latin, and to be blunt, the pace of the kids' Latin classes just simply don't take her very long. I'm kind of hoping something designed for older learners will keep her busy a little longer and slow her pace down. I'm a little afraid that she's going to suffer in long-term retention if she continues as quickly as she has been.

 

It's tough because obviously I'm not the Latin expert many of you are. I took it in high school, and got through it, but can't say I ever got to the stage of being at all fluent in it, and as a music major, as long as I could sing effectively in it and have the emotions right, those endings could pretty much go away as far as understanding the lyrics went. DD is likely to out pace me in Latin very, very quickly at this rate!

[Laura Corin]

Laura, I'm not sure that it's a matter of intelligence so much as emphasis. In centuries past, when Latin was the only subject taught in the early years of formal schooling, it wasn't that unusual for bright children to be finished with the grammar by age 9.

 

Children certainly can learn the grammar lists in isolation at a very early age. What makes Latin Prep hard is not the rote learning, but keeping so many strands in your head at the same time in order to translate. I've seen Calvin's face all screwed up as he tried to hold in his head the different verb, noun, adjective, adverb forms in a sentence, in order to come up with a translation. We worked orally without his taking notes: for me, holding all that in his head was hard but good training. I'm sure that some children could do it at an earlier age, but mine could not have.

 

As an interesting side note: in one of Dorothy Sayers' short stories - set in the 1920s - Peter Wimsey's ten-year-old nephew picks up a book in Latin at a second hand book shop. He attends a traditional Latin-based 'prep' school, described as 'excellent'. He tries to read the book but can't even start - Lord Peter helps him out.

 

Another example: in 'The Mill on the Floss' the not-very-bright son of the house is sent off to get a proper Latin-based education. He comes back with scraps of rote learning, but no idea what it means or how to use it.

 

So, I'm sure that some young people in ages past were fluent in their use of Latin by nine; many others, I would suspect, had laid a good basis in the rote learning of grammar, which they could then put to use later. Latin Prep amalgamates those two stages - pupils are translating immediately - but I'm sure it's not the only way to go.

 

Best wishes

 

Laura

[ElizaG]

That's interesting. These incidents in Sayers' stories fit with her own experience, as described in the MP article. She wasn't an admirer of the traditional g/t approach, as she knew its limitations first-hand.

 

For what it's worth, she thought it might be more beneficial for students to:

 

1) memorize the forms very early on (as she did)

 

2) spend some of their class time conversing and writing about everyday things -- what we would call "living Latin"

 

3) start out by translating medieval texts on interesting topics, and save the more difficult (and sometimes dull) classical authors for advanced students

 

In our own time, some people advise #1, and others #2, but few seem to advise both -- and I haven't see #3 recommended anywhere.

[ElizaG]

Oh, and I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm most certainly *not* fluent in Latin. I only did Books I & II of Cambridge in high school, and that was a long time ago.

 

Our oral lessons are taken from various sources, including Getting Started With Latin, Bolchazy-Carducci readers, the Catholic liturgy, the Vulgate, and the easier parts of John Traupman's Conversational Latin for Oral Proficiency. There's plenty of accessible material there, and lots of scope for variations. The big issue is just getting the confidence to get started. It felt very awkward at first, but I'm pretty comfortable with it now. That doesn't mean that my pronunciation is particularly good (we use the Italianate, and h's and r's are an ongoing issue :tongue_smilie:), but I'm comforted by the knowledge that students at medieval universities would have been speaking to each other in all kinds of crazy regional accents. And most importantly, the children love to speak Latin, and choose to practice it with each other many times a day.

[ElizaG]

Thank you for the web site Eleanor. We just went through the main text. I also got the CD which goes through the first 10 chapters.

The Colloquia Personarum looks interesting. (As I understand it, dialogues used to be a big part of teaching Latin.) It's meant for first-year students, but it might be good reinforcement for your children.

 

There's also Fabellae Latinae, which is available on the above page as a free download. In addition to the basic reader, there's a version with most of the endings left off (so it can be used as a grammar exercise), and a separate file with a few additional fables for students who have completed Familia Romana.

 

Just a couple of ideas, in case for some reason you decide not to move on to book 2 just yet. :)

[crazyforlatin]

I'm using Henle 1 with a 5-year old for various reasons. We finished GSWL when she was 4.5 years old and after emailing the author which book he would suggest for continuing Latin, we decided to use Henle. This was before I joined the forum and didn't realize that there are books for children. We haven't had any difficulties so far, but I'm considering Galore's Latin Program if Henle becomes too challenging or inappropriate for an elementary student. I like the format of Henle - lots of sentences to translate from English to Latin and vice versa. I looked at LfC and the other one that is popular here, but I prefer a program that is straightforward without any games or other distractions and a heavy concentration on grammar (that's the only way I can teach). I haven't had the chance to ask other mothers what they think of using Henle for a 5-year old or whether it's better in the long-run to use a children's program.