Question about Unschoolers

[Mimm]

This is really just to satisfy my own curiosity. I've lived in Texas and Missouri, which are both pretty free and unregulated when it comes to homeschooling. But I know other states like New York or California require you to fill out all kinds of forms, saying what you plan to cover over the year, and you have to cover various subjects and you have to get the kids tested each year... I might have some of this wrong, but the point is, other states have lots of hoops for you to jump through. But I've still heard of unschoolers in states that I consider very regulated. So how do they do it? Do they just make everything up? Do they just count various activities as doing the subjects they're supposed to do? What about unschooled children who learn to read late, sometimes very late? How are they passing standardized tests? Or are these people generally trying to fly under the radar and hoping to have as little contact with the school system as possible?

[Denise in Florida]

We were fairly unschoolerish. There were different grades and subjects which reguired a little more structure for us. We did not use a packaged curriculum and for the most part did not use textbooks.

 

Florida requires parents keep a portfolio for two years. This was easy, I just documented the things they were doing, kept a book list, and saved programs, awards, etc.

 

Florida also requires yearly 'progress' which can be measured by standardized testing, portfolio revue, or teacher assessment. After 2nd grade we used the SAT (not the college board one) for testing, I did a week or two of test prep so they would understand the whole 'fill in the bubble thing'. They did fine.

 

Late readers: my younger dd was a late reader, I had her do the teacher assessment (Brigance) instead of the SAT. I did not want to pressure her to read before she was ready. Ironically, after the assessment the teacher told me dd COULD read she just didn't want to. :lol: Mid-way through 4th grade she found an author she loved, I didn't always have time to read to her so she decided to read it herself. She is now one of those 'book kids'.

 

Hope this helps.

[K&Rs Mom]

Do they just count various activities as doing the subjects they're supposed to do?

 

I think it's mostly this. Once you really start thinking about it, it's easy to hit 4-5 subjects a day just living your life.

 

As far as the late reading, most states don't start testing until 3rd grade or so, and if they declare their grade one year lower than their age (like if they started K at 6 instead of 5), they wouldn't take their first test until they are 10yo, and even late readers are probably no later than that.

Edited December 1, 2010 by K&Rs Mom

[LibraryLover]

Unschooling doesn't mean you do nothing.

 

Sure, ok, some people might be doing 'nothing', but Unschooling is not about doing nothing.

[mytwomonkeys]

i live near charlotte & there are a lot of unschoolers here. honestly, the ones i know in real life are very hands-on and their children don't seem behind. i'm sure that's not true for all unschoolers, but the ones i know seem incredibly involved in their children's learning journey. as for record keeping, they probably speak educationese on their reports (i.e. baking can count as math, field trips, etc). as for late reading, well that seems to be rather common with homeschoolers across the board....or at least it seems to be discussed an awful lot on different forums.

[angela in ohio]

Ohio has moderate regulations. Unschoolers I know/knew either don't report at all (until they may get caught) or they give minimum information. The requirements are to give notification at the beginning of the year, including materials and subject areas, and to assess at the end of the year through a meeting with a certified teacher, test scores, or another agreed upon form. Unschoolers can make a broad statements assuring the super that they will cover the required areas in a child-led way, along with a list of educational resources they plan to use (games, books, community, etc.) Then there are unschooler-friendly teachers who do the assessments at the end of the year for them.

[Hen]

just wanted to clarify from the OP, that California is not a heavy regulation state and does not have lots of forms to fill out. You only need to fill out online, a form creating your private school- it's very short. After that, nothing- no plans of study, no testing, no reporting. Some families do homeschool through public charter schools (I do) and then the reporting and testing does happen. My first charter school teacher was actually an unschooler at heart, there are ways to report what you are doing without doing things in a traditional classroom way.

[AngelaNYC]

We were unschoolers for several years. NY is one of the more strictly regulated states. What we did was send in a home instruction plan based on the worldbook.com typical course of study. It breaks down the major subjects into a bunch of sub-topics. These are so general that my kids were able to cover almost everything through just living life. For us, unschooling means that everything counts. We took (take) tons of field trips, did many homeschool group classes, and my kids just so happened to love workbooks and online academic stuff. Thankfully, they've always been very self-motivated, creative, and keep busy with lots of different things. I still homeschool with an unschooler's mindset - even as we are now using curriculum. It never really leaves, lol.

[Saille]

In NY, you can list materials you will use, you can submit a syllabus of topics you plan to cover, etc.. So, in theory, you could ask your unschooler what they'd like to learn about that year in the various subjects, type that up, and submit it...as long as you don't forget my favorite paperwork caveat:

 

"Subjects covered may include but are not limited to:"

 

I don't actually bold it in the IHIP. :D

 

I find that phrase very useful, as I reserve the right to tweak my (non-unschooling, classical) curriculum at my discretion.

[Mimm]

Unschooling doesn't mean you do nothing.

 

Sure, ok, some people might be doing 'nothing', but Unschooling is not about doing nothing.

 

Many unschoolers do very little or nothing- I know that's not ideal or what unschooling "is about" but it does happen. I'm wondering about these people, how they "get away with it" when the laws in their area are fairly restrictive. For that matter, even in Missouri, we're required to do 1000 hours a year, and I think 700 of those need to be in certain subjects like math and language arts, etc. But I don't have to show this to anyone on a yearly basis, and no one would catch me at it if I was pretty much doing nothing.

[Mimm]

Ohio has moderate regulations. Unschoolers I know/knew either don't report at all (until they may get caught) or they give minimum information. The requirements are to give notification at the beginning of the year, including materials and subject areas, and to assess at the end of the year through a meeting with a certified teacher, test scores, or another agreed upon form. Unschoolers can make a broad statements assuring the super that they will cover the required areas in a child-led way, along with a list of educational resources they plan to use (games, books, community, etc.) Then there are unschooler-friendly teachers who do the assessments at the end of the year for them.

 

Thank you, this is interesting. :) I wonder if parents are able to schedule an assessment with a teacher of their choice, and if so, I suppose certain teachers must get most of the unschoolers in their area.

[Mimm]

Wanted to add that a lot of regulations are merely busywork. Here one has to submit their plan of study, but the district cannot reject the plan for any reason other than the person didn't include certain information. So, for example, I could write that I plan to cover reading by having my child read the back of cereal boxes every day. Not that I'd suggest anyone do that, but the district cannot disapprove of one's methods.

 

And in terms of testing in NY. One must score in the 33rd percentile. It isn't that difficult to do that. One can also satisfy this by showing 25% growth from year to year. This isn't automatic shut down of one's homeschool either. One would just have the district breathing down their neck. Testing does not have to happen every single year either (depending on the grade of the child).

 

Ok, so basically, there are hoops to jump through but they aren't exactly imposing a very high standard of education on homeschoolers. I guess that makes sense. ;)

[angela in ohio]

Thank you, this is interesting. :) I wonder if parents are able to schedule an assessment with a teacher of their choice, and if so, I suppose certain teachers must get most of the unschoolers in their area.

 

Yes, the parents choose and pay for the assessments. Most of the assessors are homeschoolers who still have their teching certification. There are some who specialize in "anything goes." :)

[....]

Many unschoolers do very little or nothing- I know that's not ideal or what unschooling "is about" but it does happen. I'm wondering about these people, how they "get away with it" when the laws in their area are fairly restrictive. For that matter, even in Missouri, we're required to do 1000 hours a year, and I think 700 of those need to be in certain subjects like math and language arts, etc. But I don't have to show this to anyone on a yearly basis, and no one would catch me at it if I was pretty much doing nothing.

 

I actually have not met "that family" yet and we are in a homeschool group, go to homeschool stores and my kids take outside classes/sports. I'm starting to think that might be more of an urban legend - there might be a really small population of "do nothingers", but so far, I haven't seen any.

 

As far as Missouri, we homeschooled in Missouri. You're right, NO ONE ever checks your work. All those hours recommendations/logging, etc...that is supposed to be used in your defense if you are charged with educational neglect. So, if someone is not fulfilling those requirements...unless they are reported to CPS, no one is going to know.

 

Your other question about how unschoolers record their work...I read a blog from a lady who built a big picture portfolio of their school year - every year - and they presented that to the school district - and that flew.

[Denise in Florida]

I actually have not met "that family" yet and we are in a homeschool group, go to homeschool stores and my kids take outside classes/sports. I'm starting to think that might be more of an urban legend - there might be a really small population of "do nothingers", but so far, I haven't seen any.

ever checks your work.

 

Thanks for saying this. I hear comments about unschoolers frequently and it has started to feel like those folks who state that Homeschooling is fine for some people but they know that others don't do it right. Kind of one of those I am disapproving of this without out saying I am disapproving. :lol: Note: This is not a comment against the OP.

[Corraleno]

I actually have not met "that family" yet and we are in a homeschool group, go to homeschool stores and my kids take outside classes/sports. I'm starting to think that might be more of an urban legend - there might be a really small population of "do nothingers", but so far, I haven't seen any.

The fact that you don't see them doesn't mean they aren't there, because "those families" (the ones who truly do nothing) don't join homeschool groups, or go to homeschool stores, or take outside sports. "Unschooling" can mean anything from "I don't use textbooks" to "my kid learned to read and do math from Grand Theft Auto."

 

When I was first researching homeschooling, I joined lots of different egroups and lists, including a few unschooling groups, to get a feel for the different philosophies. There was one radical unschooling forum in particular (and this was not a small group) where pretty much everyone there thought playing videogames all day every day was perfectly acceptable. I remember one woman who was fuming over the fact that her husband was trying to force her to "control" her son's diet, because he was eating nothing but chocolate all day, and she was adamant that she would never tell a child (her son was 7 or 8) what he could or couldn't eat. She got a lot of support and the one newbie who timidly spoke up about varying the diet was totally attacked and run off the board (which is when I unsubscribed).

 

Jackie

[phathui5]

"Once you really start thinking about it, it's easy to hit 4-5 subjects a day just living your life."

 

Absolutely. The other day, I filled in three boxes in my 10yo ds' homeschooling journal with things that I didn't plan as "school":

 

Health- Learned about the spine and nervous system at the chiropractor

History- Watched "Molly: An American Girl on the Homefront"

PE- Swimming at Y

 

there might be a really small population of "do nothingers", but so far, I haven't seen any.

 

I've met a couple.

[angela in ohio]

I actually have not met "that family" yet and we are in a homeschool group, go to homeschool stores and my kids take outside classes/sports. I'm starting to think that might be more of an urban legend - there might be a really small population of "do nothingers", but so far, I haven't seen any.

 

Give it time; they're out there.

 

There are people who homeschool simply because it takes too much effort to get kids up and ready for school each day. There are also those who need a babysitter for younger siblings. There are also those who had dc who didn't work out in the ps, so they took them out but have no intention of schooling them.

 

There are also, as a pp mentioned, radical unschoolers, who will not only defend their right to not educate their dc, but insist that you are abusing your children for not doing it their way. :)

 

Saying that there are homeschoolers who do nothing, and even saying that they may identify themselves as unschoolers, is not a comment against all unschooling. That's a logic problem. :)

Edited December 2, 2010 by angela in ohio

[Jenny in GA]

I know one real-life unschooler very well. We unschooled for one year when my kids were really little, and I spent years talking with unschoolers on-line.

 

Basically, they count anything they do in life as "school." In fact, that is almost literally the description of unschooling: Everything counts equally and nothing is "more educational" than anything else, assuming the child is interested.

 

For example, one well-known unschooler said her daughter (about age twelve) watched six hours of one particular sitcom every day for two months. Through all this watching, the girl spent a lot of time learning about plot and character, and sometimes the family discussed how that sitcom was different from other sitcoms they'd seen, etc. It was considered a very good learning experience that the mother was very proud of.

 

So ... IF they were required to document things, they would/could write "language arts studies involving elements of character, plot, and critical thinking skills involving comparison/contrast."

 

As far as standardized tests ... does any state require you to make a certain score?? If you don't, what happens?

 

In GA, we have to take the tests, but we don't have to tell anybody the score, or have any particular score. So my unschooling friend tells her kids to just have fun "decorating the dots" if they don't know a section, or just don't feel like doing it. I have no idea how well they score. I asked her once (because my husband had concerns about homeschooling), and she was deliberately very vague.

 

Also, I have heard unschoolers say they have no problem meeting the "hourly" requirement, because they fully believe their children are spending every waking moment learning -- so they are not only meeting the requirement, but far exceeding it.

 

Jenny

[Jenny in GA]

One other state requirement is to give an end-of-year assesment.

 

My unschooler friends says that every June she writes on a piece of paper, "Johnny is meeting or exceeding our requirements in all areas," puts a date on it, and sticks it in her drawer.

 

Jenny

[Jenny in GA]

As far as the late reading, most states don't start testing until 3rd grade or so, and if they declare their grade one year lower than their age (like if they started K at 6 instead of 5), they wouldn't take their first test until they are 10yo, and even late readers are probably no later than that.

 

I've actually heard of a few unschoolers who didn't start reading until about 12, but yeah, this is what people do -- they just say, "Well, my kid is in second grade" or whatever, since their is no age requirement.

 

I don't mean this unkindly, but I'm sure many homeschoolers have no ethical problem with privately reading a test to the their child, if they felt the need to.

 

Jenny

[Jenny in GA]

Many unschoolers do very little or nothing- I know that's not ideal or what unschooling "is about" but it does happen. I'm wondering about these people, how they "get away with it" when the laws in their area are fairly restrictive. For that matter, even in Missouri, we're required to do 1000 hours a year, and I think 700 of those need to be in certain subjects like math and language arts, etc. But I don't have to show this to anyone on a yearly basis, and no one would catch me at it if I was pretty much doing nothing.

 

 

But see, they completely believe they are doing that; just in their own way. If you baked cookies or played Uno or did a puzzle, or played Zoombinis on the computer, or went on a shopping trip, you're "doing math."

 

Whether it's good or bad is debatable, but that is definitely, absolutely, how unschoolers see it.

[Jenny in GA]

I actually have not met "that family" yet and we are in a homeschool group, go to homeschool stores and my kids take outside classes/sports. I'm starting to think that might be more of an urban legend - there might be a really small population of "do nothingers", but so far, I haven't seen any.

 

 

 

It depends on what you mean by "doing nothing."

 

Most unschoolers will be highly offended at the idea that they are "doing nothing." And I would say they are not neglecting their children.

 

But ... these same people will happily, and quite sincerely, describe their kids "schoolwork" as involving Pokemon games, World of Warcraft ("they learn so much from video games!"), and just hanging out with their friends for hours (because they are learning social skills and other interesting things from the conversations.) They say there is nothing wrong with a ten year old not reading yet.

 

I am not making this up or exaggerating. And there are many many homeschooling families out there who strongly feel that way.