Can we talk about Spelling??? I may be an SWR dropout...

[steppingstonemomma]

We've used SWR for the past few years. I have a love/hate relationship with this program. I love HOW it teaches, but I HATE that it is so teacher intensive and can't just be easy and that it takes so long!

 

Anyhow, I am strongly being advised by dh and friends that I should switch to just a workbook program. I haven't decided for sure, but if I did, what would be a good one to switch to??? None of my kids are natural spellers but I think a lot of it is due to learning to read late. I don't want a bunch of busywork, either.

 

Could you give me your recommendations and WHY it's a good program?

 

Thanks!

Tiffany

[xxxxxxxx]

It takes me 5 minutes per child and they finish without me!

 

I hate spelling! I love this program!

[PeterPan]

Well I have a couple suggestions that have worked for us when we've felt like you do.

 

-Change how you're using SWR. Dump the entire process and just dictate the sentences from the Wise Guide. Back way up, even to the beginning if you want. Put all your kids together and do as many as you can get done in say 10 or 12 minutes. Play with the flashcards or rules cards a couple minutes if you want. Done, all the kids, all your spelling.

-Take a break from SWR entirely. Just do literature dictation for a while, again, all your kids together. It will build a ton of skills and solidify what they've covered. Everybody needs a break now and then, and now may be the time!

-Buy the audio companion cd's for SWR. If you're going to do the formal process, at least that will make their practice independent. I'm not saying you HAVE to do the formal process. You could stop doing SWR entirely the way it's written, just do dictation and reviewing rules and phonograms cards, and they'd probably be fine. They wouldn't progress as quickly, but they'd still progress. My personal opinion and experience with my dd is that spelling doesn't pick up till they're WRITING more. It may be that your dc are not writing enough yet, as in bulk writing throughout the day, to solidify their spelling. Rather than thinking any single spelling program will solve that problem, I'd increase their writing. That's why dictation in significant amounts (3/4-1 page a day, depending on their age) helps so much, because it's just lots and lots of writing! You might shoot for 2 pages of writing a day for 2nd grade, 3 pages for 3rd. When I got those quantities up, that's when spelling started to click for my dd. I'm not saying to be nitpicky, but that's how I did it when I started bulking to get over the spelling hump. If we dictated from literature for 3/4, then that's a page. If she did 1/2 a page of handwriting and half a page of copywork of scripture she had memorized, that made another page. If I had her do a freewrite or something in her Anti-Coloring book, I called that a page. Just use your sense and be generous. :)

-Calvert spelling cd's. For the days when you really want to do nothing. Don't know how actually effective they are at improving spelling, but my dd enjoys them and does them willingly. It's also really good for their typing, hehe!

[Peek a Boo]

I'm like you --i LOVE how SWR, works but I simply don't have the perseverance to do it as directed.

 

I use A Beka's Handbook for Reading, MCP Phonics wkbk, and A Beka's Writing w/ Phonics penmanship book.

 

I also sit my three oldest down a few times a week and we go over a SWR chart. I can do this w/ my 13yo, 10yo, and 6yo, where they choose words at their own level.

 

I don't follow the SWR WISE guide lists. i do like the Alpha list, cuz as we come across words in their reading or writing i use the SWR system to explain phonogram sounds and markings and spelling rules. I apply SWR principles to everything else.

 

I still read through SWR a few times, and each time i grasp yet another new nugget that I didn't catch the previous times. I went to a SWR seminar, and plan to attend another. I figger by the time my 2yo is in K i might be ready to go all-SWR, lol.

 

SWR is no good if you can't USE it: use it in piecemeal fashion till you get the hang of it. It gets faster as you learn it!

 

My 10yo is working thru a Spelling Workout C book also [his spelling is almost as bad as his penmanship, but he seems to be a late bloomer in the fine motor skills abilities]. I about came unglued at "w can sometimes be used as a vowel" hee hee....;) But all in all i am pleased w/ the set up. I would suggest going ahead and trying it, and doing a SWR chart once or twice a week. leave a completed chart posted on the wall somewhere for osmosis learning :D.

 

eta: Think of SWR as a reference guide/ resource rather than a day to day program for now. it will serve you well in years to come even if you never implement it all.

 

good luck!

[susie in tx]

I use All About Spelling. It teaches the phonograms sounds similarly to SWR. It uses tiles to teach spelling, which my 7 yo really likes. It is also rule based, like SWR.

 

However, it is not time consuming, as long as you have all of your materials ready. It's scripted, but you don't have to follow the script, so much as follow the idea of the lesson. I've been extremely happy with it as a spelling program.

[teamturner]

I think the theory of teaching spelling in SWR and AAS are the same although I have not used SWR. AAS is a phonics based spelling program that is so, so, so, easy to use. Once you cut up all the cards, put them into your index file box, and cut up your letter tiles you can begin teaching right away. The author addresses questions for SWR users directly on her website here:

 

http://www.all-about-spelling.com/spell-to-write-and-read.html

 

Be sure to also read the section that explains how All About Spelling works. I spend 10-15 minutes each day with each of my children and they enjoy spelling and I find it easy to use. It's an open-and-go type of lesson each time. Yes, it is more teacher intensive than a workbook type program but with AAS I know what they know and that the learning is concrete. I want my children to understand why something is spelled the way it is so they can apply the spelling rules to other words. KWIM?

 

I hope it gets better for you! Blessings! :001_smile:

[rafiki]

.

[Peek a Boo]

I think the theory of teaching spelling in SWR and AAS are the same although I have not used SWR. AAS is a phonics based spelling program that is so, so, so, easy to use. Once you cut up all the cards, put them into your index file box, and cut up your letter tiles you can begin teaching right away. The author addresses questions for SWR users directly on her website here:

 

http://www.all-about-spelling.com/spell-to-write-and-read.html

 

 

I hope it gets better for you! Blessings! :001_smile:

 

it looks like the biggest difference is the penmanship/ logbook [make your own charts] component and marking system.

 

i wasn't sold on the "i doesn't say E" idea till i heard my [then] 3yo singing happy birthday after a party: after listening to ME say "Happee Birthday" a gazillion times, she parroted back "happi birfday" over and over. Apparently she's not hearing me SAY an ee sound, lol. now i don't sweat it too much, but i still teach that the EE sound we THINK we hear is the y, lol.

[steppingstonemomma]

I appreciate all your help. I'm totally sold on SWR as a method, but it is just taking so much time throughout the day added on to all the other Mommy-intensive subjects.

 

Elizabeth, I do agree about the need to increase the writing. At this point we are no where NEAR the recommended number of pages you suggested. That's probably the key for us. Ah... but that means more mommy time! AHHH!

 

I do feel like I've invested so much time (and money) into SWR that I hate to switch now. Hmmm... I do have the cd's but had stopped using them due to "trust" issues. It's been a while, so maybe I should try them again.

 

Anyway, thanks for all the help...

Tiffany

[Another Lynn]

I understand the love/hate relationship with SWR too. Oh Elizabeth has great advice for making it less painless - she's one of the ones who encouraged me when I was frustrated.

 

What helped me was giving up thinking of it as a Language Arts program. I did buy the My Wise Grammar to give my ds a pre made "worksheet" once/week. But I also started us in FLL3 because I was worried that if left up to my judgement which enrichments to do we would leave out something important.

 

So, for my 3rd grader we dictate 10 words on Monday, quiz them and then I dictate a couple sentences I make up with most of those words. Same on Tuesday. Wednesday he does a worksheet from My Wise Grammar and writes 2 original sentences in his log. Thursday I quiz him on all 20. Friday I do the review words (we're past list M now - so there are review words with each list) and any he missed from Thursdays quiz. Honestly I don't review the phonograms and rules everyday, but a couple times a week.

 

For my K-er we're just learning the phonograms (just have a few left to go) and moving through the lists (I think we're on D) slowly. At this point, I'm not even quizzing him or doing any enrichments. I mainly just want it to help his phonics/reading.

 

I agree with Elizabeth that increasing the writing is important - that's something we're working on here (with my 3rd grader). I will say that his reading has sky rocketed since we started SWR. This year alone he has gone from late 2nd grade reading level to late 5th grade reading level. He's beginning to get in trouble for reading instead of doing other school work - gotta love that!

[PeterPan]

Tiffany, increasing your writing does NOT have to mean more mommy time. In fact, you need to do just the opposite, searching out no-brainer, do-the-next-thing type assignments or workbooks for writing where you DON'T have to be the one driving all of it. For instance this year I had my dd doing the writing for the VP lit guides. That's quite a bit of writing and utterly no-brainer for me to implement. If you have a schedule (Monday dictation, Tuesday journal, Wednesday book report using the EM book reports forms, Thursday science/history narration, Friday freewrite, etc.), that can make it easy. You should be able to put those things on a checklist for your older kids and they can do them for themselves. One of the olders could even dictate to the youngers for you.

[Quiver0f10]

I love/hate swr too and dropped it this spring. My older kids are going to be using Rod & Staff and my 3rd grader will use bartons.

[Kathie in VA]

Just Another Option for ya:

 

How to Spell workbooks with the TE: How to Teach Spelling

It is based on the same research (Orton Gillingham).

It teaches the phonograms, rules and some sight words. The workbook has space for copywork of words and rules and some exercises. There are no tests, just dictation from TE.

 

hth

[Ida]

OhElizabeth, what do you do when they spell words incorrectly in their written work?

[steppingstonemomma]

Ida, that's just what I am wondering. Them writing more means more mistakes. I hate for them to keep writing the same words over and over incorrectly. It really does get ingrained in their brains.

 

I went to the local hs used bookstore today and sat down to do a side by side comparison to about 8 different spelling workbooks. I just couldn't do any of them though. I think they are just too foreign to us, now. Hmmm.... guess I'm just going to have to revamp SWR in some way. And up the writing...

[steppingstonemomma]

Do you have a link or website for the How to Spell book?

[PeterPan]

Ida and Steppingstonemama--I'm cringing my face here, because that's a big pet peeve of mine. And you know how that is: sometimes when we have a pet peeve we bend over backwards and work even harder to eliminate it! So I don't know if what I did is overkill, but here's what I did. When I made that transition from less writing to more (the big step-up), I spent some real time and effort to make correct spelling a focus. I did LOTS of dictation where I watched her like an EAGLE HAWK. I sat directly opposite her and watched the entire time. I'd read the sentence and go back through it a bit at a time. Unless the word was utterly simple (a, an, the), I asked whether she knew how to spell it. If she said she did, I let her proceed with writing it. If she started to form it incorrectly, I IMMEDIATELY stopped her, chased her, tickled her, made crazy ambulance noises, anything it took to stop her from writing more. I wanted to reinforce that we ONLY write words correctly, that spelling matters, and that she should ASK for help. I know there are differing opinions on this, but that's mine. I wanted her to develop a focus on correct spelling to the point where she would consider what she knows (they know what they know), what she doesn't, and ASK for help. And when she asks for help, I use the SWR approach to QUICKLY explain the part she needs. See that's the key: it doesn't slow them down if you make your answer fast enough. At this point, after quite a bit of practice in that habit, she writes in another room and simply hollers out when she needs part of a word. Or I'll find her with the Alphalist looking up words herself.

 

If you make looking up the spelling arduous, of course they'd rather write it incorrectly than bother to be correct, but if you're nearby and will help them at all points and can reinforce to them the value of only writing correctly, it should work out. I wouldn't be above some positive reinforcement, say a dish of m&m's that magically appears when they ask for help (one for each word, hehe I'm stingy!). It did take some work to get to that point, but it worked. Now she is more aware and asks for help, which is the whole point, to not have them just writing willy nilly and not even CARING whether it's correct or not. Some people say to just have them write, irrespective of correctness, but I don't agree. I think it teaches bad habits and can cement words incorrectly for a visual learner. I don't see the point even. Does a dc really think so fast that 2 seconds to call out for some help is too much? Are they really such writing geniuses??? (I've heard that argument, kinda makes you chuckle!!)

 

There, now you think I'm crazy, hehe. Just remember, anything new or different, especially when getting over a hump, is going to take extra effort and focus FOR A WHILE. Once you get through that, it goes on autopilot and is easy. So don't look at the extra effort and say you can't do that forever, because you're not going to NEED to do that forever. You're teaching a skill, a habit, and soon they'll do it for themselves, looking the words up in the Alphalist or quickly asking while you're off cooking or whatever. It's just a bit of effort to make them more aware and teach them TO ask.

 

PS. If she has a word incorrect in something she did totally independently, say a draft for WT, I just mention it, discuss, and move on. Were you hoping I did something fancy like putting it into a notebook and making her write it a zillion times or something? :) Nope, we just discuss and move on. Those words stick in her memory pretty well, because they were contextualized and useful. I haven't found the need to do more with them. Like I said though, she writes pretty clean drafts because I made such a big deal about asking for help.

[Elinor Everywhere]

The Writing Road to Reading has been a spelling life-saver for us, and it *really* does take me 10 minutes. BUT, I don't do the literature or reading component (any more)---just the spelling. And my son, who is ESL and has some LDs and reads slowly, can actually spell better than he reads. Is that possible? :001_smile:

[PrincipledPilgrim]

I went to the SWR teacher training twice and used SWR for two years. The concept was great but it didn't work for my daughter. She knows the phonograms and rules, just can't apply them. Here is where "How to Teach Spelling" by Rudginsky may help b/c it is still Orton-based but the lists are organized by sounds. So a list of words might contain all the various forms of words that say /A/. Could be "ey", "ei", "a", etc. This forces them to really think about the phonos + rules and apply them.

http://www.epsbooks.com/dynamic/catalog/series.asp?subject=08S&subjectdesc=Spelling++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++&series=1847M

 

That said, I've not used this though I've thought about it all year. I have a friend using it who also had gotten burned out with SWR. It seems to be effective for her.

 

The other problem my daughter had were with the "exception" cases. Like why do we double the "b" in 'rabbit' but not 'rabid' and other words like that. There are NO rules for this.

 

We had both gotten so burned out on spelling that we just had to stop. Honestly, the BEST thing for my daughter so far is having her type her compositions on the computer. MS Word flags misspelled words as she is typing and this forces her to analyze the word immediately so that misspellings are not continually reinforced. The best part is that it is free and an easy way to do spelling!!!;)

 

K