Trying to follow the Classical model, but not excelling in Latin. WWYD?

[HSMom2One]

Dd completed LFC A in 4th grade and did very well. I kept up to a certain point, but was letting the program do the teaching. Last year, she moved on mostly independently with LFC B, and I'd check in from time to time. As the year progressed I became less and less involved because my year was a bit overwhelming with the workload I was carrying. DD began to lose interest and when the year came to an end, she was halfway through the LFC B program. We were both really tired at the end of June and so we took our two months off.

 

This year for 6th grade, I planned for dd to pick up where she left off, finish the course, then we would move on to beginning PG French together. I had the bright notion that we should go back and review the chapters she had already done before diving in further. So for the past two weeks I've had her review the chants and vocab several times each day with the cd and work out a few of the activities to reinforce the review of the chapter. I told her we would do this each week as we cover 1-2 chapters until we finally catch up to where she left off, then we'll resume the regular pattern of study and complete the course. Dd is not happy about it, but is cooperating.

 

Yesterday dd expressed her frustration with learning Latin, saying she just doesn't enjoy it that much anymore -- after all, Latin is a dead language. I listened to her express her feelings, then told her that 1) We need to complete the B level of LFC even if it isn't fun for her at this point, and 2) Latin studies will help her have a better command of English as well as other languages. I then told her I'd try to be more involved than I have been and that it is important to finish something that you start. I also told her that with two years of Latin, plus the VFCR we are doing this year, she will benefit more than she realizes right now. If she becomes interested in a field of science or in law when she gets older, she might have to study Latin more, but she would already have some knowledge under her belt. Hearing this seemed to help and her attitude was much better.

 

I have to admit, I am a total loss with Latin. Originally I wanted to learn with dd, but I could not keep up because I also work part-time and have so much on my plate. At this point, she could almost be teaching ME! But aside from this, I think my plan is reasonable. If I could afford to hire a tutor, I would do it in a heartbeat. This, however, is not possible for us at this time.

 

If anyone would like to offer feedback to my plan or maybe give some suggestions, I'm very open to hearing from you. I guess I'm feeling that in order for us to be truly following the Classical model of education, we need to include Latin. In the beginning I envisioned us continuing with Latin studies through high school, but the reality for us now looks much different. I really hope I'm doing the right thing.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

[Ester Maria]

It ultimately comes down to what's your definition of a classical education, what are you willing to compromise and what not, and how important such an education is to you in the first place.

 

A lot of people just don't have "reasons good enough" for it to work past certain stage, especially if parents themselves weren't educated in such a framework and cannot really assist children. If I were you, I would reexamine my goals and priorities. Your daughter can receive a high quality education even without Latin on her plate, especially if your main focus aren't humanities. On the other hand, if Latin is as important to you as it is to me, I suggest you to take the approach of equating Latin with Mathematics - even if you dislike it, it's just something that's a part of this framework, has to be done, you get no say about it at this point of your education, end of story.

 

I would also consider something that might seem crazy to you right now: get her a HARDER program. A lot of times kids are refusing something because it's not "the real thing", but only a sort of susbtitute, and actually thrive when you get them harder materials, and when they realize there's so much more to it than what they thought. But again, ultimately it's up to what your priorities are and WHY you want this type of education for your daughter.

[Alphabetika]

Perhaps instead of continuing through high school, you should leave it for now and start *again* in high school. This is what we did, using an online class, and it worked beautifully for my dd.

[angela in ohio]

I think teaching herself Latin is too much to expect unless she is highly motivated and desires to learn it.

 

I would find a tutor or co-op group if you intend to continue with Latin.

 

The classical method, though, is about learning the skills needed to think and learn. You can teach the SKILL of learning a language without it being Latin. It does take involvement, though, to teach a child how to learn the skills of learning, because it takes modeling, discussion, and feedback. If you would be able to teach these through French, I think that is a better choice than trying to have her learn Latin herself.

[robsiew]

I agree with most of the pp... if I had to drop something it would be Latin first. We are not Latin centered. I think it's entirely possible to have an excellent education without it. If it's causing trouble and you and your dd really don't want to do it, don't. And don't feel guilty! I don't remember the age of your dd, but maybe you want to do something like a vocab program that focuses on Latin and Greek roots instead? That way you can still get some benefit from Latin without it being a thing you both dislike...

[regentrude]

I do not feel I need to follow any method completely - there are many approaches to education and while I like many aspects of classical, I am just not interested in others.

When I went to school, I never took Latin (schools in East Germany did not teach it), but had 10 years of Russian and 10 years of English as my foreign languages (and am now learning French as an adult). While Latin may certainly assist with learning languages, it is by no means essential.

As for vocabulary, the other big reason for people to do Latin, a very good vocabulary can be acquired through reading. At the same time, some knowledge about the Latin roots can also be gained.

 

My son has started Latin in 5th grade (we just began HSing) and will continue as long as he is interested. DD is in her third year of French; she is interested in Latin and will probably add it - again, getting fundamentals and seeing how far she wants to take it.

 

I feel no need to read Ceasar in the original; if I want to learn about the Gallic wars, a translation will suffice me. I find Lating intriguing, am fascinated by the efficient structure of the grammar and interested in linguistics - but not strongly enough to make it a priority.

 

You need to decide how important it is to you that your child masters Latin. One can be a well educated person without.

[HSMom2One]

Wow! You have all been so helpful and offered me great insight. Thank you all for sharing your ideas and suggestions.

 

Last night after posting this thread, I also talked to my dh. He suggested that along with helping dd get through the LFC B level that we are working on, I should also consider the fact that dd is about to begin a one-year Apologia Botany course. He thinks that studying botany this whole year with all the Latin terminology will give us a clue as to whether we should add more Latin in the future or wait until high school. I chimed in that dd is additionally studying Vocabulary from Classical Roots this year -- which is only going to help her with Latin further. So dh says he wouldn't be surprised if dd developed a stronger interest in learning more Latin after this year, and I tend to agree. I thought that was great reasoning on his part and so we are going to proceed with our plans for the year and remain open for other possibilities.

 

Once again, thank you to all that replied to my post.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

[elegantlion]

I think part of the fun of doing Latin is learning it with another person. We finished LFC B this spring. Honestly if my ds had to do it alone he wouldn't be as enthused either.

 

We're skipping LFC C and moving into Latin Alive. Latin Alive has much better DVD support than LFC. Instead of using the DVD for only one day a week, Karen teaches through the majority of the chapter. It reminded me of sitting in Spanish class in high school. I've been working through the book on my own and can't wait to start with ds in a few weeks.

 

I know you said time is an issue for you, but could you have her help you learn some Latin. Maybe put in charge of making some flashcards to post around the house, teach you some Latin prepositions (ds and I had fun with those). You could get some of those magnetic word tiles and have her write Latin words on them and make sentences for you to translate or put into correct word order. Or a game to look for Latin derivatives in what you're reading for the day.

[HSMom2One]

I think part of the fun of doing Latin is learning it with another person. We finished LFC B this spring. Honestly if my ds had to do it alone he wouldn't be as enthused either.

 

We're skipping LFC C and moving into Latin Alive. Latin Alive has much better DVD support than LFC. Instead of using the DVD for only one day a week, Karen teaches through the majority of the chapter. It reminded me of sitting in Spanish class in high school. I've been working through the book on my own and can't wait to start with ds in a few weeks.

 

I know you said time is an issue for you, but could you have her help you learn some Latin. Maybe put in charge of making some flashcards to post around the house, teach you some Latin prepositions (ds and I had fun with those). You could get some of those magnetic word tiles and have her write Latin words on them and make sentences for you to translate or put into correct word order. Or a game to look for Latin derivatives in what you're reading for the day.

 

Paula -- you are a complete GENIUS!!! I love your ideas and am going to take them to heart. You have totally made my day! Thanks so much, dear lady.

 

:hurray:

 

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

[Colleen in NS]

then told her that 1) We need to complete the B level of LFC even if it isn't fun for her at this point, and 2) Latin studies will help her have a better command of English as well as other languages. I then told her I'd try to be more involved than I have been and that it is important to finish something that you start. I also told her that with two years of Latin, plus the VFCR we are doing this year, she will benefit more than she realizes right now.

 

we are going to proceed with our plans for the year and remain open for other possibilities.

 

Another non-Latin background Mom here. We've followed the PL/LC1/LC2 sequence, and ds12 is now partway through Henle 1. He started Henle last year, and while I "got" most of what we have covered so far in it (thanks to the MP books), I haven't really, really kept up on memorizing all the grammar forms and vocab. I have managed so far to at least understand most of the structure, though, so I can still answer any questions ds comes up with, or we can figure it out together. I do work with him; helping him memorize and going through exercises orally (Latin to English - E to L he does on paper) with him. All that to say, I understand the struggle to try to keep up!

 

Anyway, just recently I am starting to see some of the benefits - ds was listening to a popular Nova Scotia band a few weeks ago with dh, and got intrigued by the Gaelic bits in the songs. Next thing I knew, he was checking Gaelic grammar and phrase books out of the library! Now, he has done this before with other languages, but this time, he was actually STUDYING AND MEMORIZING THE GRAMMAR!!!! On his own! For fun!! It was then that I realized, he knows how to go about beginning learning a language. WOW! The Gaelic books are still here, and I don't know how long this phase of interest will last (he did say he might want to study Gaelic in high school), but it was very encouraging to see that these years of persevering (more on my part, with saying with a bright smile, "OK, let's do our Latin now..." even though I knew I was sorta lost...) are starting to pay off. Occasionally I can see his thought-wheels turning, too, when he encounters a new word and figures it out because of his Latin study.

 

One suggestion (one I have struggled with myself) is to maybe concentrate more on the Latin than on the VfCR? We do VfCR, too, and for the past year I have contemplated dropping it, though I haven't done it yet. Rather, I've reduced it to "let's just pronounce the derivatives so I know you are saying them correctly, read the meanings, look at the roots, and do the exercises orally." I used to have him memorize the derivative meanings, but that quickly went downhill - I felt it was too much, and that studying Latin was more beneficial. I've read how many people feel straight reading (as opposed to a vocab program) is better for acquiring English vocab, and I agree, yet there's a tiny part of me what won't let go of VfCR (I do like the idea, and the exercises!). Anyway, just a suggestion - let it go, or maybe reduce it, concentrating on Latin?

 

hth

[HSMom2One]

Another non-Latin background Mom here. We've followed the PL/LC1/LC2 sequence, and ds12 is now partway through Henle 1. He started Henle last year, and while I "got" most of what we have covered so far in it (thanks to the MP books), I haven't really, really kept up on memorizing all the grammar forms and vocab. I have managed so far to at least understand most of the structure, though, so I can still answer any questions ds comes up with, or we can figure it out together. I do work with him; helping him memorize and going through exercises orally (Latin to English - E to L he does on paper) with him. All that to say, I understand the struggle to try to keep up!

 

Anyway, just recently I am starting to see some of the benefits - ds was listening to a popular Nova Scotia band a few weeks ago with dh, and got intrigued by the Gaelic bits in the songs. Next thing I knew, he was checking Gaelic grammar and phrase books out of the library! Now, he has done this before with other languages, but this time, he was actually STUDYING AND MEMORIZING THE GRAMMAR!!!! On his own! For fun!! It was then that I realized, he knows how to go about beginning learning a language. WOW! The Gaelic books are still here, and I don't know how long this phase of interest will last (he did say he might want to study Gaelic in high school), but it was very encouraging to see that these years of persevering (more on my part, with saying with a bright smile, "OK, let's do our Latin now..." even though I knew I was sorta lost...) are starting to pay off. Occasionally I can see his thought-wheels turning, too, when he encounters a new word and figures it out because of his Latin study.

 

One suggestion (one I have struggled with myself) is to maybe concentrate more on the Latin than on the VfCR? We do VfCR, too, and for the past year I have contemplated dropping it, though I haven't done it yet. Rather, I've reduced it to "let's just pronounce the derivatives so I know you are saying them correctly, read the meanings, look at the roots, and do the exercises orally." I used to have him memorize the derivative meanings, but that quickly went downhill - I felt it was too much, and that studying Latin was more beneficial. I've read how many people feel straight reading (as opposed to a vocab program) is better for acquiring English vocab, and I agree, yet there's a tiny part of me what won't let go of VfCR (I do like the idea, and the exercises!). Anyway, just a suggestion - let it go, or maybe reduce it, concentrating on Latin?

 

hth

 

Thank you for sharing about your son's experience, Colleen. That is very encouraging! I would be excited for that to happen in our case as well. As I said earlier, dh and I are really hoping that the study of Botany this year will encourage more Latin interest in dd.

 

As to letting go of the VFCR, however, I don't think we could. Dd and I are really enjoying it so far, so I think it is a good fit here. I do appreciate the suggestion though.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

[Dina in Oklahoma]

Hello~

 

I must agree with Paula! One of my "go to" strategies with my DD 11.5 is to have her teach me, especially when she is not engaged in the subject.

 

It provides an opportunity to switch roles (which my DD thinks is great fun,) use her creativity with real life application, and best of all retention is increased since all the senses can used in teaching.

 

Let her be your teacher and both of you will have fun while learning!

 

Best Wishes,

 

Dina :001_smile: