Caught in a loop...

[Beebalm]

DD and I visited Baylor yesterday. Along the way I realized that one of the AP classes she'd planned to work on this year would be redundant. She already has college credit based on her ACT and SAT scores. The AP class wouldn't earn her any credit. Therefore all the planning I've done is out the window. That's assuming most colleges do something similar.

 

HOWEVER. It was a huge goal of mine to 'mature' her writing this year. While she writes quite well, she needs more depth, eloquence, maturity. I also recognize that she needs to learn about citing references, bibliographies, etc.

 

SO. Should I ditch English altogether (she has enough credits) and just consider the zillion essays she'll write this year for college aps and scholarship tries enough? Or should I do something like the IEW Elegant Essay? Anybody been there?

 

A small aside. They didn't show us a dorm room or dormitory. It has bugged me all day. We drove 5 hours. One way. The guide didn't have his access card with him. Annoyed. :001_huh:

 

Thanks for listening.

Edited August 14, 2010 by Beebalm
sp.

[creekland]

I don't have a whole lot of English advice as it certainly isn't my forte, but I am curious as to what you thought about Baylor. It's on my middle son's list, but we're in PA, so it's a far longer trip to visit. He's interested in Pre-med or med research. We were going to combine the trip with a visit to Rice, but he's no longer interested in Rice after reading about their college life and its emphasis on drinking, etc., so Baylor is out there in TX alone. I don't know whether to put it on a back burner or make the effort to visit this winter.

[Teachin'Mine]

Beebalm I'm sorry your tour was lacking - that's the pits after having driven so far to be there. So I googled and there's lots of youtube videos showing the dorms. Next best thing to being there! Here's one:

 

 

I don't think it's so small at all! If you utilize the under bed storage area with rolling drawers or whatnot, should be plenty of room for clothes and all. :) Full tile bath area - nice!!!

 

No BTDT advice for English, but I would strongly recommend that she get lots of experience with footnotes and bibliographies as she'll be needing that in college.

 

How did she get college credit for the SAT and ACT??? I've never heard of that before!

[Beebalm]

Creekland, I thought Baylor was beautiful. The life sciences building is gorgeous. Check around on the youtube videos and I think you'll see pics that might help. Waco is kind of in the middle of nowhere but is between Dallas and Austin. The campus size was ideal to me..no more than a 15 minute walk anywhere. Everything looked safe..good security with real police. If you go you can arrange a meeting with a prehealth advisor. We met with a music professor as well who said the school is unabashedly Christian. Everyone was quite nice. The admissions dept. said they typically admitted from the top quarter of classes. They'd received 34,000 aps and admitted 3300 freshmen...more competitive than I originally thought. Eighty percent come from TX. Over half the grads pursue post-grad study. Oh yeah...major plus...they have no limit to hours you can bring in from college courses taken in high school. They even let you go back home the summer before moving in and accumulate MORE hours to transfer to Baylor. We've been trying to be so careful to not let our dd get too many college credits because it could affect her freshman status at some universities. (scholarships!) I think the cut-off is usually around 24. But at Baylor, they said it doesn't matter if you have 50! That's a big help.

 

T.M. Thanks so much for the Youtube link! I watched it and several others. You asked about credit...an ACT score of 29+ or SAT Verbal of 670+ OR an AP English score of 4 earns credit for English 1302 at Baylor.

I had planned for her to take the AP English class but it would make more sense to take a different AP class that would earn her additional credit since she already places out of it. There's SO much info to process to make intelligent decisions in this college search process.

 

Oh, one more thing..they have a 'major academic planner' on their website. You might check it out to see the courses your student will be taking so you can choose what to take in high school. Hope that's clear.

[Jann in TX]

I have a brother and a sister who graduated from Baylor--both LOVED it and hope their children will attend there one day too.

 

Rice is a VERY nice university. It is NOT a 'Party school'...I know several students who currently attend there who are great Christian young men... and their 'walk' has only grown since attending college... I also have a niece who has Rice as her first choice...she and her parents are very conservative and they were all very impressed with their tour and the campus in general.

 

As far as "Party" schools go-- there are parts of Baylor that can be considered a "Party school"... I know far too many stories... I think this can be said for ANY university... I attended a very small ULTRA CONSERVATIVE Christian university my freshman year... sure enough there was a big 'Party' element there--if you looked (most just chose to be quiet about it and pretend it was not there...).

 

I graduated from the University of Oklahoma... while there were definite 'Party zones' there were also MANY more opportunities for academic excellence and Christian growth.

[Michelle in AL]

I have elegant essay, but prefer Lively Art of Writing.

 

If you decide not to do AP, I would concentrate on the exercises in The Lively Art of Writing which covers persuasive essays, a research paper, a synthesis paper (you can google this and get lots of information), and a literary analysis paper.

[Dina in Oklahoma]

Hello ~

 

You might consider an online writing program where her work can be criticed. Just a thought!

 

Best Wishes~

[In The Great White North]

She already has college credit based on her ACT and SAT scores. The AP class wouldn't earn her any credit. Therefore all the planning I've done is out the window. That's assuming most colleges do something similar.

 

I've never heard of getting college credit based on ACT/SAT scores, so I wouldn't count on other colleges doing it. Certainly, the four ds applied to didn't.

[creekland]

Creekland, I thought Baylor was beautiful. The life sciences building is gorgeous. Check around on the youtube videos and I think you'll see pics that might help. Waco is kind of in the middle of nowhere but is between Dallas and Austin. The campus size was ideal to me..no more than a 15 minute walk anywhere. Everything looked safe..good security with real police. If you go you can arrange a meeting with a prehealth advisor. We met with a music professor as well who said the school is unabashedly Christian. Everyone was quite nice. The admissions dept. said they typically admitted from the top quarter of classes. They'd received 34,000 aps and admitted 3300 freshmen...more competitive than I originally thought. Eighty percent come from TX. Over half the grads pursue post-grad study. Oh yeah...major plus...they have no limit to hours you can bring in from college courses taken in high school. They even let you go back home the summer before moving in and accumulate MORE hours to transfer to Baylor. We've been trying to be so careful to not let our dd get too many college credits because it could affect her freshman status at some universities. (scholarships!) I think the cut-off is usually around 24. But at Baylor, they said it doesn't matter if you have 50! That's a big help.

 

T.M. Thanks so much for the Youtube link! I watched it and several others. You asked about credit...an ACT score of 29+ or SAT Verbal of 670+ OR an AP English score of 4 earns credit for English 1302 at Baylor.

I had planned for her to take the AP English class but it would make more sense to take a different AP class that would earn her additional credit since she already places out of it. There's SO much info to process to make intelligent decisions in this college search process.

 

Oh, one more thing..they have a 'major academic planner' on their website. You might check it out to see the courses your student will be taking so you can choose what to take in high school. Hope that's clear.

 

Thanks for your detailed thoughts. I think we'll keep them on the radar. I like their merit aid if middle son qualifies for National Merit.

 

For what it's worth on the English... you might want to check to see if they actually give credit or if she just doesn't have to take the class (no actual college credits given). My son has tested out of Calc 1 by his college's placement test, but isn't getting actual credit since he didn't take the AP exam (I thought he'd retake it there to give him an easy intro course, but it turns out he doesn't need it for his major). If he were to take a college math, he would still start with Calc 2. He took a CC English class and gets college credit for that. Placing out of the math still frees up those hours for other classes, so I can't complain, but in hindsight, it could have been well worth finding a place to take the AP exam.

[creekland]

I have a brother and a sister who graduated from Baylor--both LOVED it and hope their children will attend there one day too.

 

Rice is a VERY nice university. It is NOT a 'Party school'...I know several students who currently attend there who are great Christian young men... and their 'walk' has only grown since attending college... I also have a niece who has Rice as her first choice...she and her parents are very conservative and they were all very impressed with their tour and the campus in general.

 

As far as "Party" schools go-- there are parts of Baylor that can be considered a "Party school"... I know far too many stories... I think this can be said for ANY university... I attended a very small ULTRA CONSERVATIVE Christian university my freshman year... sure enough there was a big 'Party' element there--if you looked (most just chose to be quiet about it and pretend it was not there...).

 

I graduated from the University of Oklahoma... while there were definite 'Party zones' there were also MANY more opportunities for academic excellence and Christian growth.

 

 

It's not that he's worried about a party aspect. He's well aware that anywhere he goes will likely have a party aspect that he can choose to join or not. (We're not teetotalers either.) He read the "College Life" aspects from Princeton Review and Choosing the Right College and both noted that alcohol is not only accepted there (in the dorms even if underage), but that it seems to be celebrated even by the college Pres. Plus, one of the things one of those sites mentioned about their college dorm life - I think it was Baker or something like that - is that each month on a certain day students from that dorm run across campus wearing nothing but shaving cream. It's simply not his thing. It's not even remotely close to his thing. We have no idea if he can request NOT being part of that dorm or not. It appeared like kids get randomly assigned. Perhaps not?

 

Rice seems good for its academics, but what he's read about college life there has turned him off. He's the student of mine that studies and reads (a big variety of books) for fun and would love to live in a lab. He's sociable, but not in their sort of way. Now my youngest son, if he could get the grades, would probably love life at Rice. He'll do most anything and enjoy it. ;)

 

Editing to add... here's the two things that specifically turned my guy off. If these are true, Rice (NOT Baylor) is simply not a good fit for him. I read the whole page and it does appear that students are randomly assigned to colleges (dorms). For what it's worth, many other aspects of the colleges are appealing (diversity, etc), but there doesn't appear to be a way to guarantee he would get into one of the "tamer" dorms.

 

"Rice colleges have their own traditions. Baker College, for instance, has something called the “Baker 13,” which involves students running through campus wearing nothing but shaving cream; this occurs on the 13th and 31st of each month (or the 26th in shorter months); Lovett College throws a casino night each February; and Brown College’s residents are bound to be dunked in the Fairy Fountain on their birthdays. A less savory tradition is Night of Decadence (NOD), hosted every Halloween by Weiss College. The party draws Rice students, along with students from other universities, for a night of drinking and debauchery. Once an over-the-top costume party with themes like “The Fall of Rome,” NOD has evolved into an overtly sexual bacchanal without the costumes—in fact, without much clothing at all. Conservative students offer this advice for surviving NOD: “Get off campus.”

 

And:

 

"Drinking is more popular at Rice than politics. The university’s biggest and most beloved tradition (since 1957) is the annual Beer-Bike contest. Preceded by a week of activities—picnics, a baseball game, a big dinner, beer debates (professors drink at a pub, then debate topics with students)—students then get down to business with chugging and biking races (usually, but not always, separate contests). Even as many universities are cracking down on alcohol use and abuse, no one dares to attack Beer-Bike. Everyone participates in the festivities, even the college president. “Rice is a wet campus with a relatively relaxed alcohol policy, so plenty of students drink,” a student says. “There is a lot of drinking on campus, but there are also a lot of things to do for those who don’t drink. I’ve never felt any pressure to drink,” says another."

Edited August 14, 2010 by creekland

[Tullia]

First, is the University of Chicago guide to college writing. Someone posted it here just as my son was getting ready to start his term project on Augustine's Confessions. He says it was extremely helpful and recommends the discussion on how high school and college writing differ, as well as the tips for writing a good paper while keeping up with the workload of other classes.

 

http://writing-program.uchicago.edu/resources/collegewriting/index.htm

 

I also wish we'd had more time to work through Corbett's Classical Rhetoric for the Modern Student. I incorporated bits and pieces; even the small amount we had time to look at has been helpful.

[creekland]

Creekland, I thought Baylor was beautiful. The life sciences building is gorgeous. Check around on the youtube videos and I think you'll see pics that might help. Waco is kind of in the middle of nowhere but is between Dallas and Austin. The campus size was ideal to me..no more than a 15 minute walk anywhere. Everything looked safe..good security with real police. If you go you can arrange a meeting with a prehealth advisor. We met with a music professor as well who said the school is unabashedly Christian. Everyone was quite nice. The admissions dept. said they typically admitted from the top quarter of classes. They'd received 34,000 aps and admitted 3300 freshmen...more competitive than I originally thought. Eighty percent come from TX. Over half the grads pursue post-grad study. Oh yeah...major plus...they have no limit to hours you can bring in from college courses taken in high school. They even let you go back home the summer before moving in and accumulate MORE hours to transfer to Baylor. We've been trying to be so careful to not let our dd get too many college credits because it could affect her freshman status at some universities. (scholarships!) I think the cut-off is usually around 24. But at Baylor, they said it doesn't matter if you have 50! That's a big help.

 

 

 

Since I was on the site anyway (Choosing the Right College), I just finished looking at the whole report on Baylor. I'm glad you started this thread as I think I'll move Baylor up on the top "to check out" list instead of mulling it over as a "maybe" being concerned mainly about distance. Allowing college credits is also a plus as many other schools my son is considering won't allow many of them. Since one of his goals is grad school, it's very important that he get an excellent undergrad education without much debt. Therefore, distance might not be an issue.

 

If you find out, let me know if the English is full credit (college credit) or just placing out. Even as a sophomore, my son got high enough scores on the ACT to "get credit" based on what you wrote. If it's just placing out of the class, we might still look toward finding a school that offers an AP exam to take for the actual credit. If it's actual credit, like you, we won't bother. That would be nice!

[Beebalm]

Thanks for the responses everyone. I talked to an advisor Friday who told me "you're exactly right, she doesn't need to take that AP". However, I'll get dd to call Monday and make sure exactly what that means. Because it has English 1302 on the AP/course correlation chart and because that course was listed under her required classes within her major, I thought that meant she has credit. I'll get dd to nail it down Monday. Here is the link to the AP exam chart.

http://www.baylor.edu/irt/index.php?id=34758

 

You can also pull up "major academic planners" (somewhere) to see a suggested sequence of required courses within a particular major.

[LNC]

I loved reading this thread, my husband and I graduated from Baylor in '91. I had a scholarship though, and if my children get one they will go there. I loved my Baylor years...

[creekland]

Thanks for the responses everyone. I talked to an advisor Friday who told me "you're exactly right, she doesn't need to take that AP". However, I'll get dd to call Monday and make sure exactly what that means. Because it has English 1302 on the AP/course correlation chart and because that course was listed under her required classes within her major, I thought that meant she has credit. I'll get dd to nail it down Monday. Here is the link to the AP exam chart.

http://www.baylor.edu/irt/index.php?id=34758

 

You can also pull up "major academic planners" (somewhere) to see a suggested sequence of required courses within a particular major.

 

I'll be very interested in what they say. Keep me in mind. :001_smile:

[Cathy in TX]

way back in the late 80's from Texas Tech. I received six hours of credit and took sophomore level English my freshman year. It's good to know they still do that!

 

Cathy

[distancia]

I've never heard of getting college credit based on ACT/SAT scores, so I wouldn't count on other colleges doing it. Certainly, the four ds applied to didn't.

 

FSU (Florida State U) in Tallahassee exempts any student who scores a 650 or higher on the verbal SAT from English Comp 101.

[choirfarm]

Unless they've changed you will get credit for the class. I got out of Biology with my ACT at Baylor and it was listed as a credit. I only had to have one semester of science for my education degree, so I never had to take a science at Baylor:D ( I hated science!!!) As far as the writing, have her write as much as she possibly can. I had to write a ton in all of my classes at Baylor!!! Sic Em Bears!!!

 

I will say this as far as the Christian atmosphere. It was VERY Christian for me. There were tons of opportunities and everyone around me was. I did know of those that partied and you can find whatever you want. A friend of mine has a boy graduating in December and she was disappointed in the Christian atmosphere. However, he has gotten into the frat scene and hasn't seemed to own his faith. I chose a sorority that was VERY Christian and had very few who drank and had to do it off on their own if they wished and it wasn't condoned at all. Service is HUGE at Baylor. My dh wasn't in a frat at all and still can't believe he married a sorority gir. BUT..he was part of the BSU and that is a sort of frat/sorority on its own. You will have trouble being leadership: min con leaders, student governent if you aren't involved in it (Baptist Student Union) That was over 20 years ago, though so it might have changed. I was Methodist then and didn't join it out of spite.

 

Christine

 

Christine

[Beebalm]

I'll be very interested in what they say. Keep me in mind. :001_smile:

My daughter called today about other questions and I forgot to ask her to find out about this. I'll write it down for her to ask next call!

Did you check out the link with the AP chart?

Edited August 17, 2010 by Beebalm
adding info

[tex-mex]

A small aside. They didn't show us a dorm room or dormitory. It has bugged me all day. We drove 5 hours. One way. The guide didn't have his access card with him. Annoyed. :001_huh:

 

Thanks for listening.

Oooh. That would bug me too. Hmph.

[Beebalm]

Unless they've changed you will get credit for the class. I got out of Biology with my ACT at Baylor and it was listed as a credit. I only had to have one semester of science for my education degree, so I never had to take a science at Baylor:D ( I hated science!!!) As far as the writing, have her write as much as she possibly can. I had to write a ton in all of my classes at Baylor!!! Sic Em Bears!!!

 

I will say this as far as the Christian atmosphere. It was VERY Christian for me. There were tons of opportunities and everyone around me was. I did know of those that partied and you can find whatever you want. A friend of mine has a boy graduating in December and she was disappointed in the Christian atmosphere. However, he has gotten into the frat scene and hasn't seemed to own his faith. I chose a sorority that was VERY Christian and had very few who drank and had to do it off on their own if they wished and it wasn't condoned at all. Service is HUGE at Baylor. My dh wasn't in a frat at all and still can't believe he married a sorority gir. BUT..he was part of the BSU and that is a sort of frat/sorority on its own. You will have trouble being leadership: min con leaders, student governent if you aren't involved in it (Baptist Student Union) That was over 20 years ago, though so it might have changed. I was Methodist then and didn't join it out of spite.

 

Christine

 

Christine

 

Thanks for the great info...we're Methodist-flavored Christians but we like Baptists too. :001_smile: My dd really liked the atmosphere. We picked up a campus newspaper and she commented that it actually sounded like ADULTS had published it. She's been a little disillusioned with some of the cultural issues observed at our local universities. She's quite conservative. Hope that continues! I'll pass your comments on...especially the writing one :D. Thank you all so much!

[choirfarm]

Thanks for the great info...we're Methodist-flavored Christians but we like Baptists too. :001_smile: My dd really liked the atmosphere. We picked up a campus newspaper and she commented that it actually sounded like ADULTS had published it. She's been a little disillusioned with some of the cultural issues observed at our local universities. She's quite conservative. Hope that continues! I'll pass your comments on...especially the writing one :D. Thank you all so much!

 

Grin.. I married one and so now am a Baptist. We both loved Baylor SO much. The "Baylor Bubble" was such a great experience. AS I said, it was so incredibly nuturing, but I was passionate about my faith and my friend's son was not and never owned it. He went because his parents did. I'm hoping that my boys will own their own faith. I think my oldest has and my youngest. I'm not completely sure about my middle one. He's pretty easily swayed by who he is around. My oldest will do what is right, but he could care less about what people think about him. My youngest one will try to win anyone to Christ, but my middle one.... We'll see.

[creekland]

Did you check out the link with the AP chart?

 

The link has a fully uppercase "AND" in it which makes me think they need the ACT/SAT course "and" a minimum of 4 on the AP in order to get credit, but perhaps I'm reading it incorrectly? I guess I would have worded it "OR" if they would take either one.

 

As for atmosphere, this son is looking for a place where he can thoroughly enjoy his science education - and do research - while not being put down for his political or religious views. His faith is his own, that's not an issue. I think he'd be fine in a secular U if he found a group as equally focused on science as he is since we have friends/family that believe differently than we do on both politics and religion. What he's not "into" is the party scene or similar immature ways of promoting alcohol or s_x stuff akin to what Rice appears to have with their dorm life. If it's there, but as an "aside," he can be in the group that leaves it. If it's there and the whole dorm (or seemingly so) is participating, he will feel uncomfortable not doing it even if it's beyond his comfort level. That's just the way he is.

[Teachin'Mine]

Beebalm thanks for explaining about the credit for the ACT or SAT. That's wonderful that they use those tests to place out of the English class. :)

[Beebalm]

ATTENTION, ATTENTION, EVERYONE!!! I don't want to spread bad info and may already have done so. Today my dd called and talked to a person in admissions(NOT the one I talked to) concerning English 1302. Creekland was exactly right. The 'AND' on the chart means you have to have at least a 4 on an English AP exam AND a minimum ACT of 29 or SAT Verbal of 670+. Sooooo.......to reiterate. You must have both conditions (AP of 4, high ACT or SAT) to get credit for English 1302 at Baylor.

 

The college search may be what finally does me in, guys. Sorry for any confusion I caused. :blush5:

[creekland]

ATTENTION, ATTENTION, EVERYONE!!! I don't want to spread bad info and may already have done so. Today my dd called and talked to a person in admissions(NOT the one I talked to) concerning English 1302. Creekland was exactly right. The 'AND' on the chart means you have to have at least a 4 on an English AP exam AND a minimum ACT of 29 or SAT Verbal of 670+. Sooooo.......to reiterate. You must have both conditions (AP of 4, high ACT or SAT) to get credit for English 1302 at Baylor.

 

The college search may be what finally does me in, guys. Sorry for any confusion I caused. :blush5:

 

Thanks for the update. It's kind of what I figured after seeing what other colleges have done/required. It's nice that Baylor still allows credit for AP testing. Some colleges are moving away from that.