Newbie could use some help choosing Math :).

[Mallorie]

I've spent hours upon hours researching curricula, and finally decided to throw my situation out there for anyone who may want to offer input. I am a new hs'er, and my knees are just a bit shaky about getting started.

 

I have three kids, my boys were in public school through 1st and 4th grades, using Everyday Math. We pulled them out intending to homeschool, but enrolled them in a parochial school that taught Saxon (I had health issues that would have made hs'ing extremely stressful).

 

Now, we are back to homeschooling, for a multitude of reasons. I want to do this, and am confident that I can, but I am struggling with picking out curriculum.

 

Ds #1 almost finished Course 2 in Saxon (not sure what level that translates to in homeschool). We pulled him out in April due to teacher issues. Ds#2 finished Saxon 3.

 

I did placement tests with them 2 weeks ago to see where they fell in Saxon now. Both of them bombed the testing for the levels that they already completed. That blows my mind. I do not know if it is a program issue, or a teacher issue, or a kid issue. They both scored really advanced in the IOWA testing that the school issued, so I am just confused why they couldn't pass the placement test...for the grade they already did!

 

The kids are smart, and they are self-starters. I will not have a problem getting them to do the math, so that is not an issue. My ds2 needs review with basic math functions, adding, subtracting, multiplying, division. He can do them, but he is not proficient at all.

 

My 7th grader can do math, but I feel like he needs some clarity about it. He muddles through, not sure how to describe it. He's not secure in what he's doing.

 

I am not a teacher, it's been 20 years since I did high school math. I need something that is very easy to teach him, so that neither of us get frustrated.

 

I need to get my 4th grader on track with a strong foundation, and I'd like to start my 1st grader with a strong foundation as well.

 

Singapore did not appeal to any of us. Would teaching Saxon at home vs. school make a difference in performance/understanding?

 

I appreciate any input I can get! :001_smile:

[Wee Pip]

So...you said you did a lot of research...

What program(s) did you find that resonated with you? I really think this is a big thing - if it resonates with you, then you'll feel happier / more confident / etc about teaching it.

When you look at Saxon Math, how do you feel? Sounds like a silly question, but if your stomach twists in a knot when you look at it, then it might not be a good fit.

Why do *you* think your children did poorly on the Saxon assessment for the grade already passed? They did well on the IOWA, but not the Saxon. Did you watch them take the test, or ask what they were thinking when they answered some of the questions? Sometimes seeing *how* they think while testing says more than the test itself. Anyhow, get in touch with your tingling mommy senses (LOL - they are in there, and as a homeschooling mom you'll need to trust them!). I can tell you that I think BJU Math is da-bomb and that everyone should be using it. But if it doesn't help your particular situation, or you hate it, then it was a big waste of money for you.

Overall, do you think Saxon is a good fit for your kids? Did you get a feel for what sorts of areas they did poorly on, and how you might make Saxon work for you in those areas? Maybe slow down in those areas, or bring in more daily review for that section? Or, did you just feel like Saxon was doing a rotten job and continuing in it would be futile? Don't know if that helps. Every once in awhile, I start trying different math programs and then end back at the same one I started with, LOL. So I know what that math hunt can be like...If you do go with another math program, it helps to know what sorts of things you are looking for in a math program (spiral vs mastery, workbook vs hands on, why's of math vs the steps). Good luck!

[MommaOfThree]

I feel your pain .. I had two that I pulled from ps and we are still (3yrs into hsing now) trying to get the math-thing worked out ..

 

I was talking to another hs mom the other day and I think she struck the nail on the head w/kids & math (who've been in ps). "They learn to dislike math in public school, so you have to show them why its necessary/useful and they will learn to accept it and hopefully like it" (not exact quote, but similar)

 

I agree w/Wee Pip though, you need to feel comfortable with it first. This year we're using Christian Lights math (CLE) w/my now 5th grader who was in ps, and Life of Fred (LOF) & Spectrum w/my now 7th grader who was in ps. So far were making it thru .. But, we have taken many breaks along the way to work on skills that they were having difficulty with so give yourself a break and do what you feel is right!

[Crimson Wife]

What was it exactly about Singapore that you don't like? If the sticking point is that you think it would be hard to teach, then look into Math Mammoth. It's based on the Asian way of teaching math like Singapore but is designed to be self-teaching. Maria Miller also does a fabulous job walking the student through the concepts step-by-step-by-step. It's also quite a bit cheaper than Saxon. :)

 

Whichever "spine" you choose, I highly recommend getting the Right Start card games set. The games are a fantastic way to practice math facts without doing boring worksheets.

[bluemongoose]

I second Math Mammoth and Right Start math games!

[Sunshine State Sue]

One of the things that helped me when I started homeschooling was to use Cathy Duffy's books to determine my child's learning style. She then reviews different curriculums and tells which work better/worse for each learning style. There are many good math programs. Find the one that works best for you.

 

I'm not a big Saxon fan. I personally think that it was designed to take students longer to learn the material so that they would be occupied for more hours per day, per week, per year. Singapore is a great program, but it is completely different from anything I ever learned growing up, and I had a hard time wrapping my brain around it. I prefer clear and concise.

 

We used MUS for elementary school and supplemented with Singapore's CWP. You may read my review here.

 

For your oldest, I would suggest Lial's Basic College Math. I've never used it (kind of wish I had), but it gets positive reviews for a solid review of all elementary math and a strong pre-algebra program. For Algebra and up, you may want to consider Chalkdust. It has a reputation for being rigorous and the DVDs help moms who haven't done h.s. math for 20yrs. ;)

 

Best of luck finding what works for your family.

Edited August 5, 2010 by Sue in St Pete

[Disney Dreaming]

Look at BJU at bjupress.com or at christianbook.com. I used Saxon last year for my 1st grade dd and didn't too much care for it. I REALLY like BJU so far for 2nd grade(we are 2 weeks in) but I think MUS or Righstart would be good too.

[Mallorie]

Singapore is a great program, but it is completely different from anything I ever learned growing up, and I had a hard time wrapping my brain around it. I prefer clear and concise.

 

This sums up my assessment of Singapore. Not to say that it doesn't work, or that it's a bad program, it just didn't sit with me, I couldn't "get it".

 

When you look at Saxon Math, how do you feel? Sounds like a silly question, but if your stomach twists in a knot when you look at it, then it might not be a good fit.

Why do *you* think your children did poorly on the Saxon assessment for the grade already passed? They did well on the IOWA, but not the Saxon. Did you watch them take the test, or ask what they were thinking when they answered some of the questions?

 

I'm not entirely sure how I feel about it. It looks good, a lot of people rave about it (not all, but it has its fan base). I was at the table with them while they did the Saxon placement test, and they seemed to struggle with it. It was like they had a vague picture of what they were supposed to do, but couldn't quite put all of the pieces together, does that make sense? How they scored so high on the IOWA completely baffles me. I know that when the tests are administered at school, the kids are heavily supervised and a lot of importance is placed on test scores. We get notes on making sure they are well rested and fed that week, etc. I was not present while they took those tests.

 

The thing about sending the kids to school is that you lose track of their skills. I had a baby at home while the boys were in p.s., and then a toddler, etc. You just figure that they are at school, getting good grades and rave p/t conferences, they are doing great. Then life happens that makes you pay attention, and you realize that you have no clue where they're at. Now I'm trying to figure out where they are, what to teach three different levels, and I haven't been a math student myself in two decades. LOL It's a bit much. ;)

 

Anyway, to answer some more questions, I like the look of Rod and Staff (based on internet research, I haven't had many math programs actually *in hand* to look at). R&S is clean, basic, not distracting. My concern, is teaching a 7th grader. I'm not sure I could "open and teach" without having recent review myself, so a DVD program becomes appealing.

 

I would prefer a mastery program. I think that's the way my kids, and myself are wired. But I would like to make sure that they have exposure to things that makes them apply math to life situations, not just solving an equation on paper.

 

I appreciate all of your input. This is taking an amazing amount of time...I should probably just pick one and try it. We are on a budget, though, so I am restricted there.

[HollyB]

Math Mammoth is a mastery program. We switched after a year of Saxon, which we liked, and we *love* MM. It's similar to Singapore, but I think it is written much more clearly. You can download free samples of it to have it "in hand" then hand it over to the kids to see what they think. My kids are young, so I don't have a recommendation for your seventh grader.

 

Try not to worry too much about it all. Some programs will work better for you than others, but there really is no wrong choice. Good luck!

[WhereHopeGrows]

I just wanted to chime in and say that it sounds like Saxon isn't the program that you lean toward. If that is true, I'd keep looking. MUS uses a mastery approach and comes with a DVD. Some people like to supplement it with other programs.

[karensk]

Though I haven't used it, I've spent some time looking at various levels of BJU math lately. Here are some features I like:

 

• Arranged by topic...e.g., whole numbers, fractions, decimals (this is how my brain works--I can't do the spiral approach, like Saxon and Horizons, even if my kids could)
  
• Review exercises at the end of each chapter
  
• More than enough problems for each topic, so you can do just the odds, if you want, and plenty of problems if a student needs more to "get" the concept.
  
• With the new editions of BJU Math K5 through Math 4: accompanying manipulatives on cardstock with activities described in TM
  

 

They recently came out with new editions of Fundamentals of Math (6th/7th gr.) and Pre-Algebra (7th/8th gr.), which look good. But if cost is an issue, then the previous editions would be a better option.

 

It might be pretty easy to find used textbooks and TMs; I imagine there are a lot of them out there.

 

HTH!

[Wee Pip]

Babies/toddlers really throw off the tingling mommy senses:) I think I slept through the last school year. This school year, I'll be chasing a toddler, yikes.

It sounds like Saxon confuses your kids. You may have to do a little trial and error to get it just right. But maybe we can suggest some math in your ballpark, based upon what you said. If you can borrow texts from friends nearby or buy used and give it a try, it won't be quite so expensive.

Mastery programs that teach the "whys" of math (IOW, knowing why you do something in math helps you apply it to real life): Math U See, Math Mammoth, Singapore (avoid), BJU.

Rod & Staff is mastery and very good for basic math skills. I don't think it focuses as much on the whys of math (more of a "follow these steps" kind of program). I've never tried it; going by what I've seen & heard, so I could be wrong. But if you like it, it might be a great starting point for you! It's not expensive, either.

Math you'll want to avoid (spiral): Saxon, Horizons. I think Abeka spirals. CLE might spiral too - and I don't think teaches the whys. Someone correct me if I'm wrong (I will humbly accept correction).

Math U See and BJU have videos; this may help with your older student.

Math Mammoth has some excellent (*free*) videos on YouTube. This might help give you a crash course in math methods, too. If you like the way she explains things, you may like Math Mammoth for your younger students. 5th or 6th gr Math Mammoth might be good review for the 7th grader.

To help figure out where your students are -

1. do they understand basic math? (i.e, does youngest one understand 1-digit adding? How about subtracting? Does middle one understand basic multiplication? etc. This will help you figure out where to start - even if you just start with some cheerios and a piece of paper).

2. If they understand the basics, are they stuck conceptually? (i.e., do they understand basic place value? Place value is a great starting point for any program! Ones, tens, hundreds).

3. Can they use basic math and place value to do the harder stuff (i.e, multi-digit adding, multi-digit multiplying, etc.). When kids get stuck here, it is usually because they either don't have a firm grip on basic math and/or they don't understand place value. Backing up and working on these skills will go far for getting them up to speed on the hard conceptual stuff. 7th grader included:)

Last of all, it is OK to back up and do the easy stuff for awhile. If they are feeling overwhelmed or stumped by math (and you are, too!) it's Ok to get your "math-legs" so to speak.

Can you tell I've spent many sleepless nights over math?

[EKS]

I did placement tests with them 2 weeks ago to see where they fell in Saxon now. Both of them bombed the testing for the levels that they already completed. That blows my mind. I do not know if it is a program issue, or a teacher issue, or a kid issue. They both scored really advanced in the IOWA testing that the school issued, so I am just confused why they couldn't pass the placement test...for the grade they already did!

 

 

Kids using Saxon should score artificially *high* on Saxon placement tests. I would be suspicious that the school fudged the ITBS scores somehow.

[EKS]

What was it exactly about Singapore that you don't like? If the sticking point is that you think it would be hard to teach, then look into Math Mammoth. It's based on the Asian way of teaching math like Singapore but is designed to be self-teaching. Maria Miller also does a fabulous job walking the student through the concepts step-by-step-by-step. It's also quite a bit cheaper than Saxon. :)

 

Whichever "spine" you choose, I highly recommend getting the Right Start card games set. The games are a fantastic way to practice math facts without doing boring worksheets.

 

:iagree:

[JMDRAD]

I just wanted to chime in and say that it sounds like Saxon isn't the program that you lean toward. If that is true, I'd keep looking. MUS uses a mastery approach and comes with a DVD. Some people like to supplement it with other programs.

 

I am using MUS and supplementing with MM. I chose MUS because I am not a very strong math person. I love the DVDs and the teacher's manual is a big help too. I am supplementing with MM because I wanted something to challenge her thought process a little more. I thought about Singapore but the cost really turned me off. MM is very affordable. GOOD LUCK!!

[Lightly Salted]

I am using MUS and supplementing with MM. I chose MUS because I am not a very strong math person. I love the DVDs and the teacher's manual is a big help too. I am supplementing with MM because I wanted something to challenge her thought process a little more. I thought about Singapore but the cost really turned me off. MM is very affordable. GOOD LUCK!!

 

me too - and I'm looking into the Right Start games ... math was definitely my hardest curriculum choice!

[Jean in CA]

Would teaching Saxon at home vs. school make a difference in performance/understanding?

 

I appreciate any input I can get! :001_smile:

 

Yes!! Most definitely! I know this for certain. We've used Abeka all along for math for one child. He did beautifully. Then last year (4th grade) he did it in a co-op setting. I didn't follow up very much. Guess what? He has big gaps in understanding. This year, it's back to me teaching him and I fully expect he'll benefit from the instant feedback, and one-on-one teaching/mentoring that homeschooling is great for.

 

We are coming on to 10 years of homeschooling and I am more and more convinced that the curriculum is NOT the end-all oftentimes. It takes a teacher/coach/mentor to work with the student and see that he has mastered the material. That is what is hard for schools to do when the teacher/student ratio is 1:30, even with the most competent, caring teachers. There simply isn't TIME to make sure every student has understood the material.

 

You will have a definite advantage when you work with your sons 1 on 1. Be encouraged! You don't need a teacher's degree to homeschool your own children. :)

 

Jean

Edited August 5, 2010 by Jean in CA

[3andme]

Is it possible their Saxon placement results were off somehow? Perhaps try giving them the placement tests for one or more of the programs mentioned previously. Did they take the tests several months after the end of school? Many kids forget skills over the summer and will pick them back up quickly with some review.

 

I would also recommend looking at CLE. It is very open and go after the first grade and seems to work for many children. You can take a placement test but beware many dc place one grade level behind in this program initially.

Edited August 5, 2010 by 3andme
Added link.

[Guest ME-Mommy]

Anyway, to answer some more questions, I like the look of Rod and Staff (based on internet research, I haven't had many math programs actually *in hand* to look at). R&S is clean, basic, not distracting. My concern, is teaching a 7th grader. I'm not sure I could "open and teach" without having recent review myself, so a DVD program becomes appealing.

 

I would prefer a mastery program. I think that's the way my kids, and myself are wired. But I would like to make sure that they have exposure to things that makes them apply math to life situations, not just solving an equation on paper.

 

I appreciate all of your input. This is taking an amazing amount of time...I should probably just pick one and try it. We are on a budget, though, so I am restricted there.

 

I got this far and haven't read the rest of the posts...so please forgive me if this is redundant.

 

Two things stuck out to me: MASTERY and DVD -- Math -U-See offers both.

 

Have you looked at any of their online samples/videos/etc? They have a FREE placement test that you can download and administer fairly quickly.

 

We pulled our children out of PS when they were in 4th and 1st grade -- the youngest has never been to PS. Their math skills were horrible...we tried Saxon (because a friend recommended it) and it was a disaster.

 

I then found out about MUS and we've never looked back.

[Guest ME-Mommy]

Just wanted to add that you can find the MUS TMs and DVDs used and then buy just the student books. We've saved a LOT of $$ that way...