How do TOG books compare to Sonlight books?

[4them]

I'm probably switching from SL to TOG this fall for various reasons, mostly for the multi-level capability of TOG. We've been happy with SL, & have enjoyed most of the books, but at this point we would have to do multiple cores & I'm not up for that. My only concern is that I wonder if the TOG books are as good as the SL books have been. If anyone has experience with both curricula, could you please share your opinion on how the book selections compare? Thanks!

[Rhonda in TX]

I prefer Sonlight books, which is one of the reasons we're switching from TOG back to Sonlight.

 

I'm sure plenty of people prefer TOG's books, though. Also, if you prefer a Great Books study for high school, TOG includes more of those than SL does.

[4them]

I prefer Sonlight books, which is one of the reasons we're switching from TOG back to Sonlight.

 

I'm sure plenty of people prefer TOG's books, though. Also, if you prefer a Great Books study for high school, TOG includes more of those than SL does.

 

If you don't mind, could you share why you prefer SL books? Also, what is making you want to switch back?

[unity]

I switched from TOG back to SL "because of the books" but in my year back with SL, I came to the conclusion that that was not a particularly good reason, at least for us. Here's why...

 

I think it depends on what year plan you are doing, what level studies, whether you do in-depth history or just the core, etc. I have to admit, I did not care for the books we used when we did TOG 1. After my year of that, I went back to SL 5. Now, a year later, I am really disappointed with my SL year and realizing many of the mistakes I made when I used TOG the first time. I did not "make it my own." I tried to do everything, including waaaay more history than we like to do. I bought all the books up front instead of by the unit, so I didn't have room to tweak. I used Dialectic across the board with my HG 4th graders--they could read it, but they didn't enjoy it much. I didn't allow us to spend extra time on the lit, which is what we all enjoy around here anyway.

 

Now, looking ahead for my kiddos, I have realized some things.

 

1) We like Sonlight for the appealing novels. So, fine, I can buy the books that appeal to me and they'll read those 'on the side.' Especially as my kids get older, I find I really miss the lack of classics in Sonlight and I REALLY dislike the lack of analysis, etc. The questions and guide in SL are useless to me, because they are 90% or more about comprehension. That's just a non-issue here; they always "get" what they read.

 

2) I don't really like Ancient history. I think I blamed my personal boredom on TOG when it should have been on the subject matter.

 

3) Sonlight has a number of "duds" every year for us, too, so it's not like it's magical just to be a SL book.

 

4) TOG offers so many choices in books...if you include the alternate resources, there are *many* more TOG book choices than SL ones. So it's not necessarily fair to switch based on "the books" of TOG.

 

These are some of the musings that have been spinning through my mind as I realize that, even though I have done 6 Sonlight Cores, it is really not taking me where I want to go.

[Rhonda in TX]

I used TOG for 1.5 years. I won't say that it was a complete bust, but I don't think we got the full advantage from the program. I fully admit that was partly my fault. It just didn't click with me. I think it would have helped if we'd been part of a co-op. Also, as I looked forward to the high school years, I just could not get excited about the books we would be reading.

 

I kept looking back at Sonlight. We are huge readers here and I just felt like we were missing out on so much. Our years with Sonlight were some of our best and I just could not say we had the same excitement about TOG. When I told DD we were returning to SL, she was thrilled!

 

TOG and SL are both great programs. You have to decide for yourself what works best for your family. I would definitely recommend trying TOG to see if it's a good fit. I don't regret it at all.

[bethben]

I'm voting for TOG. I feel like the books are more age appropriate in the younger years and you don't spend your whole day reading. At those younger years, they really need to focus on the basics and TOG's philosophy matches that. History is the "gravy". TOG has shorter books with more pictures. I'm not crazy about the read alouds for TOG, but if you wanted the youngers to have a read aloud, the upper grammar books are good for that (many of them in year 4 at least are Sonlight books).

 

I also like that in the upper grammar, they are moving towards doing the program independently so that once again you can focus on your younger kiddos basics. I did do a year of Sonlight and while we enjoyed it, I really don't want to spend over an hour reading on the couch.

 

Beth

[mommabird]

I am changing from Sonlight to TOG this year too. I have loved Sonlight for these first 4 years but now I have a younger dd that needs to be taught at her level. I do not want to do 2 cores at one time and my younger needs more hands on activities. Plus, the biggest reason is I like the 4 year history cycle. Paula's Archives has a list of Sonlight books arranged in the 4 year cycle.

I talked to a new friend that made the same switch. Her advice was to use some of the Sonlight books we already have with the TOG lists. But I have not gone through it to match it up yet. I tried to find a list already done but could not.

We are still in the middle of our core 4 year due to some medical interruptions. But as we get closer to finishing core 4 I am growing more excited about homeschooling and combining the best of TOG, TWTM and SL together into one really great year.

[Verity]

Last year I decided to use ToG for our last 9 weeks (or so), ordered Year 1 Unit 4 and the books for LG and UG. My older son (11) didn't like the lit books assigned, the UG lit books were very much similar to ones from every other program, they were fine. I found myself looking for the alternate readings from SotW, I preferred those readings to the other "spines". The biblical history stuff was not at all good for my kids - they are very sensitive (yes even boys!) and reading about all the martyrs was just too much. I found myself editing everything we read to the point that I didn't want to read any of those books (Trial and Triumph/Peace and Peril).

 

One other big issue was that there was no information about the UG books that were assigned to my son so when he told me that he was confused by what was happening I had to read the chapters to help him. I really appreciate the synopsis and comprehension questions with answers I get from SL. The historical background information was great and I can see the value for a Dialectic or Rhetoric student - it just wasn't a good fit for my children. At this point I can't say if I will ever go back to ToG, the program just wasn't intuitive for my family and though I tried to tailor it for myself it felt like I would have been about as well off with SotW and an AG. (I kept adding from that resource, needed more activities, coloring pages , etc...) Also I found the ToG books hard to find, none at my library and they were more expensive to order. YMMV.

 

I have two school aged children and one preK so I like to coordinate my kids for history and science. They do their own math, latin, and LA. For this upcoming year I've ended up with SL 2 that will be the core of our history (both boys will listen to RA's) and I'm supplementing with History Odyssey Middle Ages Level 2 for my older son - he will use his spine for additional outlining and doing his notebook, the older son will also read literature from the HO list and some additional titles that I've bought and scheduled to go with the historical periods. I pegged together his reading list from SL, VP and Memoria Press, I even bought a few study guides for some of the books I've chosen to go more indepth.

 

Next year I may go with something like Biblioplan. I had looked at it initially last year but I didn't realize that I had a very old copy and there was alot more available now. That might be a good fit for you as well - take a look. The Biblioplan book suggestions look like a good middle road between ToG and SL. I would have tried it this year except I've already bought all of SL Core 2 used and don't want to have to go through selling it and frantically getting everything for BP.

 

Good luck with finding what works for you. One of the easiest ways is to either try the free three week offer from ToG or spend the $50 and buy a unit to try out.

[siloam]

I'm probably switching from SL to TOG this fall for various reasons, mostly for the multi-level capability of TOG. We've been happy with SL, & have enjoyed most of the books, but at this point we would have to do multiple cores & I'm not up for that. My only concern is that I wonder if the TOG books are as good as the SL books have been. If anyone has experience with both curricula, could you please share your opinion on how the book selections compare? Thanks!

 

Many of the SL RA's and readers are scheduled in TOG, mostly at the D level. They also use a lot more Usborne type books as history texts instead of the more story book feel of books that SL chooses: CHOW, Landmark History of the American People, SOTW (though SOTW is listed as an alternate choice).

 

Where SL's choices are made with how likable the book is as one of the main requirements, TOG prioritizes content/academics. At the R level in particular you will work with a lot of original documents, and great literature (think BL 530 and AL 430, but 4 years of it).

 

TOG also added RA's as an afterthought, they not always fiction. I personally don't even try to use them. BTW I say that because the classic has only one or two a year, it was not a focus in the original program. I appreciate them adding it, but for SL that is a focus again, where with TOG it was more fulfilling a customer request, adding another option. SL's attention to the topic shows in they have better choices.

 

There are times when I adore TOG choices, and it is not a SL book. Some of the India/China books especially. At the LG level I love their choice of picture books better. But for me I modified SL, and then when I did WP I modified again. I bought TOG because it allows me to choose and use my favorite books. I will still use Landmark History of the American People, just not in 3rd grade (I think that too young). Going back to year 1 I will use MOH and the LG Usborne text as my spines. It is the flexibility to use the books I choose that I love the most.

 

Heather

[4them]

I switched from TOG back to SL "because of the books" but in my year back with SL, I came to the conclusion that that was not a particularly good reason, at least for us. Here's why...

 

I think it depends on what year plan you are doing, what level studies, whether you do in-depth history or just the core, etc. I have to admit, I did not care for the books we used when we did TOG 1. After my year of that, I went back to SL 5. Now, a year later, I am really disappointed with my SL year and realizing many of the mistakes I made when I used TOG the first time. I did not "make it my own." I tried to do everything, including waaaay more history than we like to do. I bought all the books up front instead of by the unit, so I didn't have room to tweak. I used Dialectic across the board with my HG 4th graders--they could read it, but they didn't enjoy it much. I didn't allow us to spend extra time on the lit, which is what we all enjoy around here anyway.

 

Now, looking ahead for my kiddos, I have realized some things.

 

1) We like Sonlight for the appealing novels. So, fine, I can buy the books that appeal to me and they'll read those 'on the side.' Especially as my kids get older, I find I really miss the lack of classics in Sonlight and I REALLY dislike the lack of analysis, etc. The questions and guide in SL are useless to me, because they are 90% or more about comprehension. That's just a non-issue here; they always "get" what they read.

 

2) I don't really like Ancient history. I think I blamed my personal boredom on TOG when it should have been on the subject matter.

 

3) Sonlight has a number of "duds" every year for us, too, so it's not like it's magical just to be a SL book.

 

4) TOG offers so many choices in books...if you include the alternate resources, there are *many* more TOG book choices than SL ones. So it's not necessarily fair to switch based on "the books" of TOG.

 

These are some of the musings that have been spinning through my mind as I realize that, even though I have done 6 Sonlight Cores, it is really not taking me where I want to go.

 

Regarding the bolded, I just had that epiphany today! I love some of the SL books, but I can always grab those on sale or at the library to supplement or just enjoy in our free time. As for the analysis aspect, I am looking forward to going in depth with TOG. The IG is what is really calling to me. It has done all the work for me, in gathering the resources into a list that I can choose from. It makes customizing so much simpler.

 

Also, your fourth point is an good one...I love that if I don't like a book for any reason, there are many others to choose from. When we ran into a SL book we didn't like, we usually ended up skipping it. Now I have options! I am probably going to buy our primary resources, but try to get as many of the alternate books at the library as possible.

 

Thanks for sharing your experience...it helps me a lot.

[4them]

I used TOG for 1.5 years. I won't say that it was a complete bust, but I don't think we got the full advantage from the program. I fully admit that was partly my fault. It just didn't click with me. I think it would have helped if we'd been part of a co-op. Also, as I looked forward to the high school years, I just could not get excited about the books we would be reading.

 

I kept looking back at Sonlight. We are huge readers here and I just felt like we were missing out on so much. Our years with Sonlight were some of our best and I just could not say we had the same excitement about TOG. When I told DD we were returning to SL, she was thrilled!

 

TOG and SL are both great programs. You have to decide for yourself what works best for your family. I would definitely recommend trying TOG to see if it's a good fit. I don't regret it at all.

 

ITA! I have enjoyed SL, but I am drawn to TOG for many reasons. I think they both have their strong points. I think you are right about trying it, & I am just about ready to take the plunge into TOG. Now it's just a matter of deciding how much to buy, and how many units! Thanks for posting.

[4them]

I'm voting for TOG. I feel like the books are more age appropriate in the younger years and you don't spend your whole day reading. At those younger years, they really need to focus on the basics and TOG's philosophy matches that. History is the "gravy". TOG has shorter books with more pictures. I'm not crazy about the read alouds for TOG, but if you wanted the youngers to have a read aloud, the upper grammar books are good for that (many of them in year 4 at least are Sonlight books).

 

I also like that in the upper grammar, they are moving towards doing the program independently so that once again you can focus on your younger kiddos basics. I did do a year of Sonlight and while we enjoyed it, I really don't want to spend over an hour reading on the couch.

 

Beth

 

Thanks for sharing you p.o.v.! I do like to read to my kids, but I don't like so much of their progress in school to be dependent on how much reading I accomplish. I have sometimes felt that the volume of read-aloud books in SL really dampens my desire to read other books to my dc, just for fun.

 

I am changing from Sonlight to TOG this year too. I have loved Sonlight for these first 4 years but now I have a younger dd that needs to be taught at her level. I do not want to do 2 cores at one time and my younger needs more hands on activities. Plus, the biggest reason is I like the 4 year history cycle. Paula's Archives has a list of Sonlight books arranged in the 4 year cycle.

I talked to a new friend that made the same switch. Her advice was to use some of the Sonlight books we already have with the TOG lists. But I have not gone through it to match it up yet. I tried to find a list already done but could not.

We are still in the middle of our core 4 year due to some medical interruptions. But as we get closer to finishing core 4 I am growing more excited about homeschooling and combining the best of TOG, TWTM and SL together into one really great year.

 

It sounds like we have a lot in common! We did part of core 4 last year, but didn't finish it because it was not a good fit for my younger ds. I don't want to do 2 cores, either, and I don't have the time to modify a core to fit the age span & different abilities in my home. I also have one child in particular who would do much better with more hands on activities. I think SL was great for our younger years, but now we need some things that SL doesn't offer. That list of SL books in the 4 year cycle sounds great, but I don't know what Paula's Archives are...guess I'll google it! Thanks!

[4them]

Last year I decided to use ToG for our last 9 weeks (or so), ordered Year 1 Unit 4 and the books for LG and UG. My older son (11) didn't like the lit books assigned, the UG lit books were very much similar to ones from every other program, they were fine. I found myself looking for the alternate readings from SotW, I preferred those readings to the other "spines". The biblical history stuff was not at all good for my kids - they are very sensitive (yes even boys!) and reading about all the martyrs was just too much. I found myself editing everything we read to the point that I didn't want to read any of those books (Trial and Triumph/Peace and Peril). Ok, good to know. My dc tend to be sensitive as well...the church history component is optional, right? I would most likely only have my oldest doing that part of TOG.

 

One other big issue was that there was no information about the UG books that were assigned to my son so when he told me that he was confused by what was happening I had to read the chapters to help him. I really appreciate the synopsis and comprehension questions with answers I get from SL. The historical background information was great and I can see the value for a Dialectic or Rhetoric student - it just wasn't a good fit for my children. At this point I can't say if I will ever go back to ToG, the program just wasn't intuitive for my family and though I tried to tailor it for myself it felt like I would have been about as well off with SotW and an AG. (I kept adding from that resource, needed more activities, coloring pages , etc...) Also I found the ToG books hard to find, none at my library and they were more expensive to order. YMMV.I think IKWYM; so there is no synopsis of the books in TOG? Doesn't the TOG guide have questions & answers in it? IWYM about "intuitive"; it can be difficult to work with something, even if it has great content, if it just doesn't make sense for me personally. I don't think this will be a problem for me, as I've studied the samples of TOG & looked at a print copy & I feel that I "get" how it works. I won't really know until I try it, though.

 

I have two school aged children and one preK so I like to coordinate my kids for history and science. They do their own math, latin, and LA. For this upcoming year I've ended up with SL 2 that will be the core of our history (both boys will listen to RA's) and I'm supplementing with History Odyssey Middle Ages Level 2 for my older son - he will use his spine for additional outlining and doing his notebook, the older son will also read literature from the HO list and some additional titles that I've bought and scheduled to go with the historical periods. I pegged together his reading list from SL, VP and Memoria Press, I even bought a few study guides for some of the books I've chosen to go more indepth.

It sounds as if you've found a great plan for your family! I am looking forward to solidifying our plans as well. (What is the HO list?)

 

Next year I may go with something like Biblioplan. I had looked at it initially last year but I didn't realize that I had a very old copy and there was alot more available now. That might be a good fit for you as well - take a look. The Biblioplan book suggestions look like a good middle road between ToG and SL. I would have tried it this year except I've already bought all of SL Core 2 used and don't want to have to go through selling it and frantically getting everything for BP.

I've looked at Biblioplan, MFW, HOD, WP, & so many others! I can't tell you why I crossed Biblioplan off the list, but it didn't make the cut somewhere along the line, lol! It's so great that we've got so many wonderful resources to choose from, but it can be so difficult to choose!

 

Good luck with finding what works for you. One of the easiest ways is to either try the free three week offer from ToG or spend the $50 and buy a unit to try out.

Thank you! I have downloaded the 3 week trial & paged through many of the books that are available at my library. I plan on buying either one or two units & just going for it...there's really no other way for me to see how it will work for our family.

[Verity]

Thank you! I have downloaded the 3 week trial & paged through many of the books that are available at my library. I plan on buying either one or two units & just going for it...there's really no other way for me to see how it will work for our family.

 

I think that's a great plan!

The HO list is simply the literature choices in History Odyssey for the year. HO assigns The Door in the Wall, The Trumpeter of Krakow, Beowulf, The Story of King Arthur and His Knights, The Adventures of Robin Hood, Adam of the Road, The Canterbury Tales, One Thousand and One Arabian Nights, and Tales of the Heike. I'm adding in Castle, The Story of Rolf and the Viking Bow, Knight's Fee, I, Juan de Pareja, The Second Mrs. Giaconda, Tales from Shakespeare, The Shakespeare Stealer and The Hobbit.

 

I've realized that my desired focus is in classical and great literature so I'm working to incorporate that more fully into my kid's education. It's been a long time since I've read alot of these (if ever) I need to get reading!

[4them]

Many of the SL RA's and readers are scheduled in TOG, mostly at the D level. They also use a lot more Usborne type books as history texts instead of the more story book feel of books that SL chooses: CHOW, Landmark History of the American People, SOTW (though SOTW is listed as an alternate choice). That's good to know. That will be right at my oldest ds' level & interest, while the Usborne books are better for my visual, reluctant reader. I liked CHOW, but Landmark was a bad fit for my dc the last two years. I ended up subbing another book instead.

 

Where SL's choices are made with how likable the book is as one of the main requirements, TOG prioritizes content/academics. At the R level in particular you will work with a lot of original documents, and great literature (think BL 530 and AL 430, but 4 years of it). This sounds good. I have only heard excellent reports about the R level of TOG.

 

TOG also added RA's as an afterthought, they not always fiction. I personally don't even try to use them. BTW I say that because the classic has only one or two a year, it was not a focus in the original program. I appreciate them adding it, but for SL that is a focus again, where with TOG it was more fulfilling a customer request, adding another option. SL's attention to the topic shows in they have better choices. I am planning on using the SL catalog as a book list to pick some RA's & just for fun books for the year.

 

There are times when I adore TOG choices, and it is not a SL book. Some of the India/China books especially. At the LG level I love their choice of picture books better. But for me I modified SL, and then when I did WP I modified again. I bought TOG because it allows me to choose and use my favorite books. I will still use Landmark History of the American People, just not in 3rd grade (I think that too young). (ITA!) Going back to year 1 I will use MOH and the LG Usborne text as my spines. It is the flexibility to use the books I choose that I love the most. Are these recommended by TOG as primary or alternate sources? If not, can you tell me how you switch out the books TOG has chosen, & what level you would use those books for?

 

Heather

 

Thanks, Heather! I've read many of your posts on this topic, and they've been quite helpful.

[4them]

I think that's a great plan!

The HO list is simply the literature choices in History Odyssey for the year. HO assigns The Door in the Wall, The Trumpeter of Krakow, Beowulf, The Story of King Arthur and His Knights, The Adventures of Robin Hood, Adam of the Road, The Canterbury Tales, One Thousand and One Arabian Nights, and Tales of the Heike. I'm adding in Castle, The Story of Rolf and the Viking Bow, Knight's Fee, I, Juan de Pareja, The Second Mrs. Giaconda, Tales from Shakespeare, The Shakespeare Stealer and The Hobbit.

 

I've realized that my desired focus is in classical and great literature so I'm working to incorporate that more fully into my kid's education. It's been a long time since I've read alot of these (if ever) I need to get reading!

 

Thanks...I'll have to check out that list as well!

[siloam]

Ok, good to know. My dc tend to be sensitive as well...the church history component is optional, right? I would most likely only have my oldest doing that part of TOG.

 

Yes it is optional. My guess is that it is scheduled heavily in that section. My kids are sensitive and we used it through year 3 and 4, but there aren't a bunch of martyr stories during those times. I would suspect we will skip that book during Roman history.

 

so there is no synopsis of the books in TOG? Doesn't the TOG guide have questions & answers in it? IWYM about "intuitive"; it can be difficult to work with something, even if it has great content, if it just doesn't make sense for me personally. I don't think this will be a problem for me, as I've studied the samples of TOG & looked at a print copy & I feel that I "get" how it works. I won't really know until I try it, though.

 

There are discussion questions and answers for history, bible, ect... for D and R level. Not for UG or LG levels. There are literature worksheets for all levels, but not summary of the books. The classic used to have some Literature discussion questions, but I haven't seen any in the redesign yet. Either I am missing it or they don't have that anymore.

 

Thank you! I have downloaded the 3 week trial & paged through many of the books that are available at my library. I plan on buying either one or two units & just going for it...there's really no other way for me to see how it will work for our family.

 

Yes, you don't want to spend this kind of money to find out it doesn't work for you. The three week sample is the best way to find out if it will work for you.

 

BTW you can also modify how you use it. TOG designed LG to be read aloud and UG and up to be read to the child. I prefer to read to my kids so I am reading the LG/UG level (which ever has the most appealing books at the time) out loud to all my kids, and just assign additional work for my oldest.

 

Heather

 

[4them]

There are discussion questions and answers for history, bible, ect... for D and R level. Not for UG or LG levels. There are literature worksheets for all levels, but not summary of the books. The classic used to have some Literature discussion questions, but I haven't seen any in the redesign yet. Either I am missing it or they don't have that anymore.

I see. I will look through my sample some more to see exactly what is available.

 

BTW you can also modify how you use it. TOG designed LG to be read aloud and UG and up to be read to the child. I prefer to read to my kids so I am reading the LG/UG level (which ever has the most appealing books at the time) out loud to all my kids, and just assign additional work for my oldest.

I am assuming you meant that UG and up was meant to be read "by" the child, but you prefer to read aloud? Is that correct?

 

Heather

 

 

Thanks for the clarification.

[Guest aquiverfull]

The classic used to have some Literature discussion questions, but I haven't seen any in the redesign yet. Either I am missing it or they don't have that anymore.

 

 

I just checked my YR 1, U1 DE and I found some discussion questions for Lower Level Literature in the Teacher's Notes. :) I'm not sure if that is the answers to questions on the SAPs or not. So it may not be what was in the Classic.

Edited July 17, 2010 by aquiverfull

[4them]

I just checked my YR 1, U1 DE and I found some discussion questions for Lower Level Literature in the Teacher's Notes. :) I'm not sure if that is the answers to questions on the SAPs or not. So it may not be what was in the Classic.

Thanks!

[Omma]

I have been looking at the end of Y1 for TOG just this evening, and wondering if it'll be too much to read the very books you were mentioning (Peace & Peril, and Trial and Triumph). I am also looking at MOH II and at SL Core 2. Believe it or not, I have all of these resources available to me and I am pondering which to use. I have always skipped over this part of history, and now I am remembering why. I will have a 10 1/2 ds and an almost 9 dd when we begin.

 

I had put TOG on the back burner for awhile while we did our BJU Heritage Studies DVD's. But now as I look at Heritage Studies Level 5, I really am not interested. We have already covered this part of American History with WP.

 

Decisions, decisions! I do like SL, but I think TOG is better for us as long as I remember that it is a buffet!

 

Brenda

[unity]

Regarding the bolded, I just had that epiphany today! I love some of the SL books, but I can always grab those on sale or at the library to supplement or just enjoy in our free time. As for the analysis aspect, I am looking forward to going in depth with TOG. The IG is what is really calling to me. It has done all the work for me, in gathering the resources into a list that I can choose from. It makes customizing so much simpler.

 

Also, your fourth point is an good one...I love that if I don't like a book for any reason, there are many others to choose from. When we ran into a SL book we didn't like, we usually ended up skipping it. Now I have options! I am probably going to buy our primary resources, but try to get as many of the alternate books at the library as possible.

 

Thanks for sharing your experience...it helps me a lot.

 

I'm glad to share my experiences. I don't really feel in a position to convince someone to use TOG, because I didn't use it with huge success, but I did learn from my mistakes and do think I will try again after this year.

 

At some point for me it comes down not only to what I *want* to do, but also what I feel I *need* to do. Although there are some things I do love about SL (for us, anyway, it's very relaxed and informal and fun), when I step back and ask if my kids are getting what *they* need out an education, I have to say no. I'm not indicting SL here, just probably how we use it.

 

And honestly, before I more or less gave up on TOG 1 I have to admit they did learn a lot. There is a learning curve and I think I never quite got out of SL mode and into TOG mode, kwim?

 

Best of luck as you chart your course!

[Joy at Home]

I haven't read any of the responses and I'm on my way out the door, but I would say don't let just the book selection be your deciding factor. I've used SL for years but find TOG has what I was lacking in SL, i.e., true interaction with dc via teachers notes and discussion. However, my heart belongs to SL literature and I use it, not hesitating to substitute lit selections for SL titles. After trying to switch from SL to TOG in the past and failing, I realize the key to me is to use TOG and make it my own, which for me means adding books that appeal to me and my kiddos and using TOG around them, without feeling like I'm not "getting the most out of it". TOG is a tool, but that doesn't mean I have to use it with altering it. So far, this has been working for us. I see it as the best of both worlds.

 

Blessings and good luck!!

lisa

[ariasmommy]

ITA! I have enjoyed SL, but I am drawn to TOG for many reasons. I think they both have their strong points. I think you are right about trying it, & I am just about ready to take the plunge into TOG. Now it's just a matter of deciding how much to buy, and how many units! Thanks for posting.

 

Count me as another one who has enjoyed our SL years, but is ready to give TOG a try - we actually just finished our second "full" week(geography and hands-on need a little more attention, but we'll get there:)). SL was a great fit for dd, and I plan to continue to incorporate many of their books into TOG. But I coudn't see doing 2 or more Cores past Core 3/K and I could see I would have to tweak quite a bit later on. I actually went ahead and bought SL 3 and will use many of the books and save some, like The Witch of Blackbird Pond, for our next history go around (I wanted that Heirloom membership:D). It has been quite easy (so far) to incorporate the SL books - though I imagine that it might not work so well in later levels. I may neet an SL "book basket" for extra reading then. But I am enjoying the flexiblity of TOG. Dd is doing a combo of LG and UG, and I'm just doing 1 or 2 history related read-alouds each week with ds5 at this point. It was neat to hear dd and ds discussing Pocahontas today of their own accord - they had read/listened to different books about her, but still had learned the same basic things. :) That probably would not have happened if they were studying two different times in history. So all this to say that I think it is quite possible to use the TOG plan and still enjoy many of the wonderful SL books. :)

[M&M]

I realize the key to me is to use TOG and make it my own, which for me means adding books that appeal to me and my kiddos and using TOG around them, without feeling like I'm not "getting the most out of it". TOG is a tool, but that doesn't mean I have to use it without altering it.

 

 

That is exactly how Marcia Sommerville wants us all to use TOG :001_smile:.

[4them]

At some point for me it comes down not only to what I *want* to do, but also what I feel I *need* to do. Although there are some things I do love about SL (for us, anyway, it's very relaxed and informal and fun), when I step back and ask if my kids are getting what *they* need out an education, I have to say no. I'm not indicting SL here, just probably how we use it. ITA! I see the same thing here. SL has worked great for my older ds, who loves to read & is more academically minded...but learning comes easy to him & he would do well with nearly any curriculum. It's my younger ds who I feel is not having his needs met by SL. He has struggled more to learn to read, & although he's smart as a whip, learning has to happen in a particular way for him. With SL, they always say teach to the oldest and the younger will glean what they can...it just so happens that my youngest isn't gifted at "gleaning". I think TOG is going to be a better fit for him especially.

 

And honestly, before I more or less gave up on TOG 1 I have to admit they did learn a lot. There is a learning curve and I think I never quite got out of SL mode and into TOG mode, kwim?

 

Best of luck as you chart your course!

 

Thanks!

[4them]

I haven't read any of the responses and I'm on my way out the door, but I would say don't let just the book selection be your deciding factor. I've used SL for years but find TOG has what I was lacking in SL, i.e., true interaction with dc via teachers notes and discussion. However, my heart belongs to SL literature and I use it, not hesitating to substitute lit selections for SL titles. After trying to switch from SL to TOG in the past and failing, I realize the key to me is to use TOG and make it my own, which for me means adding books that appeal to me and my kiddos and using TOG around them, without feeling like I'm not "getting the most out of it". TOG is a tool, but that doesn't mean I have to use it with altering it. So far, this has been working for us. I see it as the best of both worlds. Glad to hear this...it's what I'm hoping for!

 

Blessings and good luck!!

lisa

:)

[4them]

Count me as another one who has enjoyed our SL years, but is ready to give TOG a try - we actually just finished our second "full" week(geography and hands-on need a little more attention, but we'll get there:)). SL was a great fit for dd, and I plan to continue to incorporate many of their books into TOG. But I coudn't see doing 2 or more Cores past Core 3/K and I could see I would have to tweak quite a bit later on. I actually went ahead and bought SL 3 and will use many of the books and save some, like The Witch of Blackbird Pond, for our next history go around (I wanted that Heirloom membership:D). It has been quite easy (so far) to incorporate the SL books - though I imagine that it might not work so well in later levels. I may neet an SL "book basket" for extra reading then. But I am enjoying the flexiblity of TOG. Dd is doing a combo of LG and UG, and I'm just doing 1 or 2 history related read-alouds each week with ds5 at this point. It was neat to hear dd and ds discussing Pocahontas today of their own accord - they had read/listened to different books about her, but still had learned the same basic things. :) That probably would not have happened if they were studying two different times in history. So all this to say that I think it is quite possible to use the TOG plan and still enjoy many of the wonderful SL books. :)

 

A previous poster mentioned that Paula's Archives has or links to a list that puts SL books into a four year history cycle. I will definitely be taking advantage of that! I have all the SL history books from Cores K-4, and I'm glad that someone went to all the effort to do that because it will make it so much easier to incorporate those books. We are using the book basket idea as well...I have 2 LG & 1 D, but I plan on getting as many of the UG books from the library as I can as well.

 

Here is the link to the Home's Cool blog where you can find the list; I found it via this page at Paula's Archives (in the links at the bottom of the page).

 

Sadly I do not have Heirloom status...I bought a few of my cores through a local mom. They were half the price and like new because she only had one child & they took great care of the books!

[4them]

I have been looking at the end of Y1 for TOG just this evening, and wondering if it'll be too much to read the very books you were mentioning (Peace & Peril, and Trial and Triumph). I am also looking at MOH II and at SL Core 2. Believe it or not, I have all of these resources available to me and I am pondering which to use. I have always skipped over this part of history, and now I am remembering why. I will have a 10 1/2 ds and an almost 9 dd when we begin.

 

I had put TOG on the back burner for awhile while we did our BJU Heritage Studies DVD's. But now as I look at Heritage Studies Level 5, I really am not interested. We have already covered this part of American History with WP.

 

Decisions, decisions! I do like SL, but I think TOG is better for us as long as I remember that it is a buffet!

 

Brenda

 

That seems to be the key, as M&M shared upthread!

[siloam]

 

There are times when I adore TOG choices, and it is not a SL book. Some of the India/China books especially. At the LG level I love their choice of picture books better. But for me I modified SL, and then when I did WP I modified again. I bought TOG because it allows me to choose and use my favorite books. I will still use Landmark History of the American People, just not in 3rd grade (I think that too young). (ITA!) Going back to year 1 I will use MOH and the LG Usborne text as my spines. It is the flexibility to use the books I choose that I love the most.

 

Are these recommended by TOG as primary or alternate sources? If not, can you tell me how you switch out the books TOG has chosen, & what level you would use those books for?

The Usborne text is a primary resource in TOG for UG level. MOH is neither. I am adding it myself. It will largely take place of the Worldview readings, because I think the weeks that list 10 chapters to read out of the Bible will totally overwhelm my crew. The summaries in MOH work better here. It does mean that for some weeks we will have to take longer than a week, because there are so many chapters in MOH to cover. There are also weeks that MOH doesn't have any chapters, and those we will probably do in less than a week. Overall it has taken me about 1.5 years to get through a TOG level. I am hoping to shave some time off of that by not going as in depth as we have in the past....but we will see. :D

 

MOH is written to be a reader for grades 4-8, but works well as a read aloud for younger kids as well. I used it in our first history round with SL Core 1. I was stretching out Core 1 for my middle dd's benefit, but my oldest wanted more, so I read MOH just to her.

 

Heather

[Omma]

Heather (SILOAM),

 

Pretty please, can you go check out my other thread about using MOH 2 with TOG 2? Have you done this yet? I will have a 5th grader and a young 4th grader and I am wondering how in depth I should go and how to set things up if I do both of these resources in a combined way.

 

Thanks!

 

Brenda

[siloam]

Heather (SILOAM),

 

Pretty please, can you go check out my other thread about using MOH 2 with TOG 2? Have you done this yet? I will have a 5th grader and a young 4th grader and I am wondering how in depth I should go and how to set things up if I do both of these resources in a combined way.

 

Thanks!

 

Brenda

 

Brenda,

 

I have all the way through MOH 3 scheduled out, just send me an e-mail.

 

Off to read your post....

 

Heather

[AngelBee]

Brenda,

 

I have all the way through MOH 3 scheduled out, just send me an e-mail.

 

Off to read your post....

 

Heather

 

Can you send me a copy of your MOH 1-3 schedule? :)

angelbee369@hotmail.com

 

Thanks!

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

I think that there is a fair amount of overlap between the two with regards to book choices. The difference is that they organize them differently so it isn't always obvious. Sometimes they are scheduled for different sections/time periods.

 

The other difference is that I'm not sure you can compare the SL high school American and British Lit cores to TOG. They are still studying history with Lit on the side at that point and not totally Lit focused.

[siloam]

Can you send me a copy of your MOH 1-3 schedule? :)

angelbee369@hotmail.com

 

Thanks!

 

Found it and sent it. It was actually where I thought it would be, for once. Usually I get some bright idea about where to put it so I won't forget it the next time, and then I forget it. ;)

 

Heather

[AngelBee]

Found it and sent it. It was actually where I thought it would be, for once. Usually I get some bright idea about where to put it so I won't forget it the next time, and then I forget it. ;)

 

Heather

:lol: I do that all the time! Thanks :)

[AStableBeginning]

Found it and sent it. It was actually where I thought it would be, for once. Usually I get some bright idea about where to put it so I won't forget it the next time, and then I forget it. ;)

 

Heather

 

Would you mind sharing your file with me too?

mjcaffey7@gmail.com

Thanks, Jacquelin

[siloam]

For anyone reading this at a later date, I did send them. Feel free to ask if you need them either here or by just PM'ing me. :D

 

Heather