Talk to me about TOG Dialectic

[AuntPol]

What other subjects do you do?

Share your schedules?

Do you suppplement literature? Writing? Other?

 

 

Right now, I am planning (Kids are grades 5/6 -my 5th grader actually more advanced and more thorough than my 6th, though not as fast and organized.

 

TOG year 3 dialectic

MCT Town and then start Voyage after Christmas

SWR for spelling

Fix-it Grammar

Math (Singapore/LOF/EPGY)

Science (The ELements)

Latin for CHildren

Plus Prairie Primer (kids want it -mostly doing the activities that can count as badge requirements for their scouts)

 

I was thinking of adding LL7 to the mix but it seems overkill. THere is just so much reading in TOG that I don't think the amount needs to be added to and poetry is covered in TOG and MCT, so the only thing I may be misssing is more analysis. I haven't looked at all the literature sheets yet to see if LL7 covers anything that TOG doesn't.

 

I used IEW last year and would love to keep it but we have TOG writing and MCT writing. On their own both seem too light but I wonder if together they are enough? IEW SICC-B isn't in my budget unless it comes up used at a great price. I could afford a theme lesson but it's the videos that I like. My kids respond well to Andrew.

[AuntPol]

Bump.

[Leanna Tomlinson]

What other subjects do you do?

Share your schedules?

Do you suppplement literature? Writing? Other?

TOG year 3 dialectic will need no literature supplement. This year is a great intro to literary analysis. Your student will learn literary analysis terms, and apply that knowledge to each selection as the year progresses.

 

Right now, I am planning (Kids are grades 5/6 -my 5th grader actually more advanced and more thorough than my 6th, though not as fast and organized.

 

TOG year 3 dialectic

MCT Town and then start Voyage after Christmas

SWR for spelling

Fix-it Grammar

Math (Singapore/LOF/EPGY)

Science (The ELements)

Latin for CHildren

Plus Prairie Primer (kids want it -mostly doing the activities that can count as badge requirements for their scouts)

 

I was thinking of adding LL7 to the mix but it seems overkill. THere is just so much reading in TOG that I don't think the amount needs to be added to and poetry is covered in TOG and MCT, so the only thing I may be misssing is more analysis. I haven't looked at all the literature sheets yet to see if LL7 covers anything that TOG doesn't. I really think adding LL7 would be overkill. If there are some things covered in it that aren't in TOG, it would not matter in the long run, especially since your dc are only 5th and 6th grade. FWIW- TOG's rhetoric level lit is the most intense I've found, and the dialectic level is preparing your students for that.

 

I used IEW last year and would love to keep it but we have TOG writing and MCT writing. On their own both seem too light but I wonder if together they are enough? IEW SICC-B isn't in my budget unless it comes up used at a great price. I could afford a theme lesson but it's the videos that I like. My kids respond well to Andrew. As far as writing goes, I have used all three of these programs. Considering your dc's ages, I think a few months in Town, and then moving to Voyage will work. OR you can do TOG writing assignments. TOG will be a full year of writing by itself You can jump between levels as you see the need. I would not add IEW to this, or try to do MCT and TOG at the same time. All three of them are complete programs. Voyage and Town will only teach paragraphs and essays, but the instruction is excellent. TOG will have a variety of assignments, and will add in some creative writing, but is not in any way weak in academic writing. IEW theme lessons will have a variety of assignments, but if your dc have already done a lot of IEW, they may benefit from another approach.

 

Just some thoughts. See above in red.

HTH.

Edited June 27, 2010 by Leanna
typos

[HSMom2One]

I agree with Leanna on the writing. TOG assignments are very thorough, especially if you use WA with it. Last year I used WS with TOG/WA, but I really didn't need to. This year we are going with TOG/WA all the way.

 

Other than this, have you considered some pre-logic courses? If you read my blog article on what we are doing for D level (6th grade) studies this year, I give some insight as to why I've chosen the programs we'll be using.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

[johnandtinagilbert]

I'll chime in this afternoon :)

[AuntPol]

Other than this, have you considered some pre-logic courses? If you read my blog article on what we are doing for D level (6th grade) studies this year, I give some insight as to why I've chosen the programs we'll be using.

 

 

 

I have Orbiting with Logic for them but forgot to list it above. We have done Countdown and almost done with Liftoff. They have also done some mindbenders. I was thinking of adding Thinking Toolbox or Fallacy Detective. I get mixed opinions on which to start first.

 

I will check out your blog article!!!

Edited June 27, 2010 by AuntPol

[Renaissance Mom]

D lit in yr 3 continues to lay a very nice framework of literary analysis terms plus practice in using them. The weekly worksheets in the student activity pages are often simply to help the student note various elements in the story. But it all comes together in the discussion with Mom. There is very real substance to the D lit in this year plan -- by the time we get to R lit, we'll have a huge head start.

 

An example would be from Gulliver's Travels last year (yr 2). The recommended version of the book was abridged and very easy to read. However, that made if very easy to pick out items to discuss (which were things highlighted in the worksheets). During our discussion, we dug into the definition of satire and identified quite a few instances in the story that we could relate back to our history studies. It was all there in the teacher's notes to guide me to lead a discussion. I kept thinking what an advantage that will be when we get to the unabridged version and deeper analysis at the R level. My dd is already familiar with and enjoys the story, she has found and examined several uses of satire in it, and has a good understanding of the historical setting. What more could I wish for at this level?

 

Y3 digs even deeper and has even more opportunities to more indepth discussion guided by the teacher's notes.

 

Blessings,

[ChemMommy]

 

What other subjects do you do?

Share your schedules?

Do you suppplement literature? Writing? Other?

 

 

 

 

In addition to TOG 2 stuff, she did:

 

 

 

• pre-algebra (Aufmann--good, lots of practice problems)

• science (finished up Rainbow biology and did some chemistry)

• spelling (Building Spelling Skills -- she's a lousy speller)

• music (guitar, piano, and vocal ensemble)

• Bible Study (confirmation stuff and Wise Up, a Bible study from Positive Action--She liked that one a lot)

• Vocabulary (Vocab from Classical Roots and Vocabulary for Enjoyment--not that she really enjoyed it LOL.)

 

Writing remains an issue at our house. I don't really understand how to implement TOG WA program (need to work on that), and we've tried CW. Older child is trying the MCT stuff this summer. We've done IEW. My advice on this one is to NOT do what I've done. I think I keep switching writing programs because they all take work on my part, lots of work. I keep looking for the magic pill of writing programs. In hindsight, I think I would choose one and stick with it (stay off the boards so you aren't tempted to try something else LOL).

 

We wanted to do foreign language and art, but that got dropped this year. There's only so much mom and too much curriculum.

 

You definitely will have to supplement TOG literature only rarely. My dd reads well and sometimes a book would be scheduled for 3 weeks and I knew she'd finish it up early. I just added a book that SL or VP recommended for that stage of history or let her read a UG book. TOG does a nice job teaching literary analysis, too.

[AuntPol]

I'll chime in this afternoon :)

 

Looking forward to it :)

[johnandtinagilbert]

What other subjects do you do? Latin/Eng. Grammar (The Latin Road takes care of both); Math; Science; Logic; Writing; Bible (in addition to Church History from TOG); Piano; Vocabulary (in addition to TOGs, more root based)

Share your schedules? 7th Grade

Dialectic - TOG Y3 Units ¾; Y4 Units ½ (lit, geography, church history, history, vocabulary), continued focus on outlining and paragraph formation; focus on seeing the big picture and how all the subjects connect across the Tapestry of history.

Science – Physical Science with many living books added and an outstanding notebook expected

Larson/Hostetler Elementary Algebra + Dana Mosely DVDs (essentially chalkdust but for less $$ and no customer support, which is fine…she has her older brother J )

Vocabulary with Mom (following a Webster’s vocab book and vocab cartoons)

Piano

PE

Bible/Worship

Computer drill for math, vocab, spelling, Latin in the form of games

The Latin Road to English Grammar 2

Daily Grams/Editor in Chief 2 days each

Write Shop 1 (finish) and begin Write Shop 2

Time Management continued….easy with this one J She’s the queen of organization, and naturally so. If only *I* was born organized!

Sports through a church league, weekly baby sitting

Alternating writing/drawing journal 2 days each

Memory work (bible, hymns, Bill of Rights, Gettysburg Address)

Speed reading 4 days

Art of Argument maybe 3 days? I'm giving her the whole year to finish it.

 

Do you suppplement literature? Writing? Other? Honestly, Year 3 is Great for Dialectic Lit. I agree with a PP that it really brings out lit. understanding nicely. We also tend to read a great deal, so I have no reason to use another program. IMO, adding LL would be serious overkill, particularly with the amount of reading we cover in our home. For example, there will be weeks when my 7th grader will read the chapter book from UG and D b/c the works are wonderful and I don't want her to miss them!

 

We are currrently using WriteShop, not b/c Writing Aids isn't great, but b/c I wanted a little more hand holding to help my dc develop style in their writing. It's working beautifully. After we finish WS2, we'll have a high school credit, then we'll get back to Writing Aids. I really like the variety and project focus of the WA program and regret I wasn't a little more on the ball in Jr. High for my other dc.

 

 

Right now, I am planning (Kids are grades 5/6 -my 5th grader actually more advanced and more thorough than my 6th, though not as fast and organized.

 

TOG year 3 dialectic

MCT Town and then start Voyage after Christmas

SWR for spelling

Fix-it Grammar

Math (Singapore/LOF/EPGY)

Science (The ELements)

Latin for CHildren

Plus Prairie Primer (kids want it -mostly doing the activities that can count as badge requirements for their scouts)

 

I was thinking of adding LL7 to the mix but it seems overkill. THere is just so much reading in TOG that I don't think the amount needs to be added to and poetry is covered in TOG and MCT, so the only thing I may be misssing is more analysis. I haven't looked at all the literature sheets yet to see if LL7 covers anything that TOG doesn't.

 

I used IEW last year and would love to keep it but we have TOG writing and MCT writing. On their own both seem too light but I wonder if together they are enough? IEW SICC-B isn't in my budget unless it comes up used at a great price. I could afford a theme lesson but it's the videos that I like. My kids respond well to Andrew.

I can't imagine adding IEW to WA and MCT. I can't say much about MCT, I've never used it, but from what I gather here, it's good stuff. Maybe you could do MCT and WA, as WA does lean toward your history studies, most of the time. We all know IEW is great, but I'd probably leave that as stand alone. Just my 2cents :)

 

I love TOG! I have blogged about it a good bit, so feel free to jump over there and see. It's in my siggy.

 

I have really enjoyed the first 2 units of year 3. Nicely presented, and as I said above, the lit. has been great. A wonderful introduction for my eldest 2, who will start TOG R lit next Feb. We have learned a great deal and were just identifying an archetype while watching a movie last night! The spines were great and the discussions, well, that's the icing on the cake. Amazing. Truly. We've grown so much in our Socratic Discussions. I started D when my boys were in grades 5/6 too and now that we're entering 8/9th...they are wonderful at picking up the pieces, making connections, answering the questions, and actively participating in discussion. It's been grand.

 

Something I have enjoyed with multiple dc in D was assigning different questions to each of them, so they can each play a part in discussion with pride and confidence. It turns out, that most of the time they can answer all of the questions, anyways, but when they get the chance to articulate a particular point, it has been magical. I heart TOG!

 

We, at least half of us) have enjoyed TOG more thoroughly by spacing out the schedule. We complete 2-TOG weeks in 3-calendar weeks. That means we only finish 3 units per year, but it gives 2 of my students, who are just a little slower, the chance to get deep and enjoy, instead of rush and burn through a week at a time. I have also found their retention is greater.

 

I expect a D student (this ones been in D for 1.5 years now) to outline and summarize either a spine or in-depth, ala WTM guidelines, in addition to the writing we complete.

 

I have thusfar been able to give them explanations for lit terms, give them a vocab list, and with their reading, they are understanding without too much depth of study. That will surely change in R lit.

 

I do use the Evaluations and love them. If they can answer the questions, they do fine on the exam. The Evaluations stretch them to really look at a big picture of say, a presidency and require a student to know about the president personally, his term, accomplishments, political history, family life, and then the discussion takes it a step further by having the dc decide their opinion on a matter. For example, Andrew Jackson and his life, presidency and their thoughts on Indian Removal. We had an amazing discussion on slavery, human rights, and of course, were able to connect our faith in the process. It was amazing how something so wretched was used to teach us the goodness of God and the not-so-goodness of man. Good stuff!

 

They are required to write up a paragraph for each famous person listed in TOG, which is no biggie. There is actually a People Glossary (on the Loom?) and a Vocab. glossary (also on the Loom?). That makes my life easier.

 

I started letting them see my outline last semester. I tend to outline what I want to lecture about, then discuss and fill in blanks from my understanding. I wanted them to practice taking lecture notes, so using my outline gave them a nice start, then they wrote in extra information. To my joy, most of what I wanted to touch on, they already knew b/c of the reading. I'm encouraged about high school and college as a result!

 

I like to have the Book Basket, ala Sonlight, in the house too. That way, should they desire to dig deeper, they can. Two of five are avid readers and typically enter the basket. Of the other 3, I'm still training one in reading and the other two would rather read non-school books for pleasure :)

 

Let's see...projects. I like to complete family projects sometimes, so when TOG leans toward such, I give each student a part and they complete it together. I have used this to teach them to plan as a group, meet group expectations, and have meetings to wrap up. It's been a nice cooperative experience. There are also plenty of projects they can work on throughout a unit (display boards, sewing, cooking), so we generally do those too and save them for a Unit Celebration with Friends. If you can, do the Unit Celebration. It seems to give some encouragement to my dc, a way to share joyfully, and a great reason to have friends and food...just for fun!

 

I think that's about it! Thanks for waiting for me ;) I've been busy planning!

Edited June 29, 2010 by johnandtinagilbert
I said "unit study" and I meant "Unit Celebration"

[HappyGrace]

Thanks to all-this thread is a help to me even though I have just been :lurk5:

[Elinor Everywhere]

Wow, Tina, what a great post! We're getting ready to start our 3rd year with TOG (and using TOG Year 3), and we love it, but my discussions are weak. I've always been an avid reader but I have a hard time discussing. I think perhaps I'm not planning enough for our discussions, so I like your outline idea. I tend to be a pick-up-and-go type (well, I also PLAN like crazy, but that's before school actually starts), and I think I've been trying to open-and-go our discussion time.

 

Thanks for giving me some things to chew over!

[johnandtinagilbert]

Wow, Tina, what a great post! We're getting ready to start our 3rd year with TOG (and using TOG Year 3), and we love it, but my discussions are weak. I've always been an avid reader but I have a hard time discussing. I think perhaps I'm not planning enough for our discussions, so I like your outline idea. I tend to be a pick-up-and-go type (well, I also PLAN like crazy, but that's before school actually starts), and I think I've been trying to open-and-go our discussion time.

 

Thanks for giving me some things to chew over!

Thanks and your welcome :) I felt that way too, until I started digging a little deeper into the discussion and teacher's notes. I get all the planning, really organizing, done in the summers too. This year, I am trying to knock out some outlining, with the hopes of a little more open and go throughout the year (I'm just so busy with all these dc!) I finally started really spending time on lit. discussions this year, so we did ease into discussions, fwiw. Now, we're moving along nicely with history and lit. discussions. I have also borrowed the tea and snack idea from here and it makes for a very nice time. Honestly, it makes all the effort we all put into TOG worthwhile.

[HSMom2One]

What suggestions would you have for us for next year? So far, I am planning to start the year out with YR1/U4 at UG level, adding some D level lectures and discussions in order to transition over to D level. Then in the fall we will go into YR2/U1 at D level all the way. My daughter is really looking forward to studying medieval history, so we may slow down just a bit on that unit. Because she reads fast, I'm going to try to slip in some UG books here and there as well, plus she is going to continue to do lapbooks. I expect we will get through YR1/U2 by the end of the year, but I'm going to make an effort to also do U3 if at all possible because I want her to be ready to do US History in 7th grade.

 

Our subjects and curriculum are on my siggy if that helps any. I'd just really love to hear your thoughts and suggestions for a new D level student that is at this point in the program.

 

Thanks in advance for your input, Tina. I really do appreciate it.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

[johnandtinagilbert]

What suggestions would you have for us for next year? So far, I am planning to start the year out with YR1/U4 at UG level, adding some D level lectures and discussions in order to transition over to D level. Then in the fall we will go into YR2/U1 at D level all the way. My daughter is really looking forward to studying medieval history, so we may slow down just a bit on that unit. Because she reads fast, I'm going to try to slip in some UG books here and there as well, plus she is going to continue to do lapbooks. I expect we will get through YR1/U2 by the end of the year, but I'm going to make an effort to also do U3 if at all possible because I want her to be ready to do US History in 7th grade.

 

Our subjects and curriculum are on my siggy if that helps any. I'd just really love to hear your thoughts and suggestions for a new D level student that is at this point in the program.

 

Thanks in advance for your input, Tina. I really do appreciate it.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

Lucinda,

Hi :) First, since you are smack dab in the middle of wine country :drool5:, please stock up on red wine for next year and drink a toast to me on occasion :) I'll enjoy from the other side of the continent. :cheers2: Okay, I digress. :D I've never noticed that until today.

 

Year two will bring your daughter so many wonderful things to read! We so much enjoyed our Dialectic time there. The stories in literature are wonderful and the period is so interestingly portrayed in the core and in-depth sections, you'll almost feel like you're there. Good stuff all around!

 

So, you said, "I am planning to start the year out with YR1/U4 at UG level, adding some D level lectures and discussions in order to transition over to D level." I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this. Can you elaborate for me, please?

 

"YR2/U1 at D level all the way. " Something I remember that going from UG to D was a jump in the amount of information for dc to process. The History Core will contain a jump in depth and the literature will increase in number of pages and vocabulary. Makes sense, right?

 

I'm pretty sure your dd's been outlining Kingfisher, so I'd imagine she can outline the likes of the Dialectic Cores. Remember the discussion questions are tied to Cores, so this really is a good place for her to apply those skills she's been developing ala WTM writing! WOOT for SWB!

 

"My daughter is really looking forward to studying medieval history, so we may slow down just a bit on that unit."

As an alternative to outlining the Core, I allowed my dc to pick an In-Depth book to outline. If dd has a topic of particular interest, this is a nice way to include her joys in study. Of course, your lecture will still cover all she needs to tie the threads together and now she has the benefit of learning a lot about something that interests her. Sometimes, we love literature too much and overlook an chance for some fact finding. The in-depths can be very enlightening, interesting, and go very nicely in the book basket.

 

This leads nicely into your WA Composition. Whatever she outlines...use it for her WA assignment. That's generally applicable. If not for the WA, then for a project in the Student Assignments. Kill two birds with one stone :) It also makes sense...and follows WTM suggestions for summarization (mostly).

 

Looking at the rest of your siggy, it looks like you're headed for a stellar year, Lucinda! If I missed something (:lol:) let me know. I'm always happy to talk TOG!

 

Remember, Discussion is all about Teacher's Notes. Teacher's Notes make us look so darn smart by giving us tidbits. They also have all the answers to the questions (thinking and accountability) and all of this is nicely laid out for you. When you're having discussions, start asking more questions that require more than a yes or no answer. You may have to drag dd along for a while to actually show her how to connect church history to geography to core to how the literature is an example of a person in that time. I had to really paint the picture as a WHOLE. I don't remember how long it took, but I do remember seeing the bulb shine when they got it. After a full school year, I was amazed at how far we'd come. This is really when you'll appreciate TOG. I know you do now, just wait for discussions to bloom! It truly makes all the hard work worth it!

 

"I'm going to make an effort to also do U3 if at all possible" The key to this success is Just Keep Swimming. This period is FULL of rabbit trails. That's when I started using the book basket. They could head down rabbit trails if they chose, but we had to keep plugging along. Don't get me wrong, it wasn't all "driven" crazy, we had a great time, it's just there is SO much in this time period that caught our interest. We could have spent 4 years there! Remember, you're coming back in high school. You can hit other areas then.

 

As a general suggestion, have her keep her map and questions out while she's reading. Teach her to read her questions first, then jot down notes if she finds answers while reading. This is a great time to teach study skills. She'll need to have those down by high school :)

 

TOG also encourages self-planning at the D level. I gave a little at a time as independent responsibilities. That's an entire thread to itself. I'll tell you this much, giving copies of all the things I've mentioned in past threads does encourage them to work independently and with a little guidance, they'll start planning days on their own very soon...which reminds me. Start enforcing deadlines if you don't already. You'll need them by Rhetoric, so if you're prone to starting slowly (I'm a build up to kinda teacher), nows the time, if you haven't already.

 

Overall, I'd suggest ye old, "Enter thee doors of TOG slowly." I know you're not a newbie for TOG, but this transition will require more of your time and dds. I like to transition either literature or History/geo first. I'd switch one for about a month before switching the other; gives you both a chance to adjust, breathe, and snuggle in.

[HSMom2One]

You are my heroine today for sure. I will sit down and write a decent reply tomorrow. I hosted a standardized testing group at our house today and have been painting the walls in my studio/classroom all afternoon. It's been a crazy day.

 

TTFN - yes, from that gorgeous farm and vineyard country way out west!

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

[HSMom2One]

Again, thanks for the reply to my request and for all of the wonderful insight. What an amazing teacher you are. Here are my replies to your questions and points:

 

So, you said, "I am planning to start the year out with YR1/U4 at UG level, adding some D level lectures and discussions in order to transition over to D level." I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this. Can you elaborate for me, please?

 

Basically, what I'm planning to do is use UG materials, but I'm also going to lecture from the Teacher's Notes and lead her into D level discussions. I have not plotted this all out yet, but it is my goal with this unit to start getting our feet wet as we prepare to move over to the next level. I am also thinking about having her start a timeline with U4 too because we have not done that yet. Anyway, does this clarify what I said and does it seem doable?

 

"YR2/U1 at D level all the way. " Something I remember that going from UG to D was a jump in the amount of information for dc to process. The History Core will contain a jump in depth and the literature will increase in number of pages and vocabulary. Makes sense, right?

 

I totally expect this, and will try not to demand too much too soon. My dd has been reading ALL of the core reading for UG so far, in addition to adding SOTW nearly every week. She is a strong reader, so I believe this will be a good challenge for her. I do think she is ready to make the transition.

 

I'm pretty sure your dd's been outlining Kingfisher, so I'd imagine she can outline the likes of the Dialectic Cores.

 

Actually we have not been outlining much at all so far.:D I'm just now reading up on this practice and plan to work with her during 6th grade. We will use Kingfisher along with some of the other core reading for this. I'm very interested to see how she does with it.

 

This leads nicely into your WA Composition. Whatever she outlines...use it for her WA assignment. That's generally applicable. If not for the WA, then for a project in the Student Assignments. Kill two birds with one stone It also makes sense...and follows WTM suggestions for summarization (mostly).

 

You are so right!! This should work out beautifully! Thanks so much for the suggestion. I love it! I don't know how this whole thing about outlining went right over my head during 5th grade -- I guess I didn't refer back to TWTM like I should have at the beginning of the year -- but I'm on board now and ready to rock-n-roll with it.

 

As a general suggestion, have her keep her map and questions out while she's reading. Teach her to read her questions first, then jot down notes if she finds answers while reading. This is a great time to teach study skills. She'll need to have those down by high school

 

What wonderful advice. We could practice this during YR 1/Unit 4 as part of the preparation for the big change.

 

Tina, you are a godsend! I knew you would have some good tips for me for this year. I always find your posts to be so helpful and inspiring. Thanks for being here on the boards with us.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

[johnandtinagilbert]

Again, thanks for the reply to my request and for all of the wonderful insight. What an amazing teacher you are. Here are my replies to your questions and points:

 

Basically, what I'm planning to do is use UG materials, but I'm also going to lecture from the Teacher's Notes and lead her into D level discussions. I have not plotted this all out yet, but it is my goal with this unit to start getting our feet wet as we prepare to move over to the next level. I am also thinking about having her start a timeline with U4 too because we have not done that yet. Anyway, does this clarify what I said and does it seem doable?

My thoughts are this: choose one D source, have her outline that source, then lecture from your notes. Honestly, I would teach her the process using D materials, not UG. By way of depth, D materials will lean more toward clarification via lecture, whereby the UG sources are pretty cut and dry (lower reading level, not much need for lecture to clarify). Lecturing from UG will enhance, but the point of "lecture practice" at least at my house, is not only to teach/learn, but also to prepare for higher level learning. High level learning classes require students to come to class perpared, i.e. having read the material before the lecture. Just something to consider.

 

 

I totally expect this, and will try not to demand too much too soon. My dd has been reading ALL of the core reading for UG so far, in addition to adding SOTW nearly every week. She is a strong reader, so I believe this will be a good challenge for her. I do think she is ready to make the transition. She sounds like my rising 6th grade girl :) I'm putting her in D lit. next year before the cores....for ease in transition. We may begin D cores after first semester. We shall see!

 

 

 

Actually we have not been outlining much at all so far.:D I'm just now reading up on this practice and plan to work with her during 6th grade. We will use Kingfisher along with some of the other core reading for this. I'm very interested to see how she does with it. A thought for you, encyclopedias are great for learning outline b/c their format is really straight from an outline :) Makes for easier instruction and greater ease in picking out those 1 or 2 important details for an outline. It won't take her long to become very good at this. When she's comfy, personally, I'd drop KF and stick with the Cores in TOG. We find them much more interesting and since they're more in-depth, more educational. Then, have her outline the Core, your lectures will come from Core topics (via Teacher's Notes) and you are simplifying both of your workloads, but still accomplishing the same tasks...just one less book to look at.

 

 

 

You are so right!! This should work out beautifully! Thanks so much for the suggestion. I love it! I don't know how this whole thing about outlining went right over my head during 5th grade -- I guess I didn't refer back to TWTM like I should have at the beginning of the year -- but I'm on board now and ready to rock-n-roll with it.

 

 

 

What wonderful advice. We could practice this during YR 1/Unit 4 as part of the preparation for the big change.

 

Tina, you are a godsend! I knew you would have some good tips for me for this year. I always find your posts to be so helpful and inspiring. Thanks for being here on the boards with us.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

Thank you for your kindness. I'm not part of a support group that meets regularly around here...no time and honestly no desire (BTDT); and although my dearest friends all home school, we're all so busy we rarely get together (save email and facebook...just not the same). This place is my support group; and support groups are wonderful b/c they give you: Mandate, Mentor, Mentorship. A beautiful triad :)

 

It seems like there was something else I had in mind for you, but is has left me. That's what I get for not writing it down! If I remember, I'll re-post. If not, then I suppose it wasn't meant to be (or I'm a moron! :lol:).

[HappyGrace]

Thank you, Tina, for your thoughts here. That plus your blog posts on TOG have been instrumental in wrapping my head around how to teach TOG in a practical way! :)

[johnandtinagilbert]

Thank you, Tina, for your thoughts here. That plus your blog posts on TOG have been instrumental in wrapping my head around how to teach TOG in a practical way! :)

You're welcome :)

[Gooblink]

We're starting TOG Y3 Dialectic next week...or the week after. :)

 

Our schedule looks something like this, including how many days per week on each subject:

 

5x - Bible reading and character building lesson

5x - Math (Saxon)

3x - Introductory Logic (for 12 year-old), Mindbenders (for 10 year-old)

5x - Reading, Literature (TOG)

3x - Reading, History core (TOG)

5x - Reading, Free

5x - MCT for extra writing, grammar, vocabulary and poetry

2x - Science (Apologia Astronomy and Great Science Adventures "Tools and Technology")

3x - Latina Christiana I (because we blew it off last year. :( )

1x - Music/Art lessons outside home

2x - Athletics/sports outside home

1x - Boy Scouts

 

Of course, my plan always works perfectly on paper and less so in practice.

[HSMom2One]

My thoughts are this: choose one D source, have her outline that source, then lecture from your notes. Honestly, I would teach her the process using D materials, not UG. By way of depth, D materials will lean more toward clarification via lecture, whereby the UG sources are pretty cut and dry (lower reading level, not much need for lecture to clarify). Lecturing from UG will enhance, but the point of "lecture practice" at least at my house, is not only to teach/learn, but also to prepare for higher level learning. High level learning classes require students to come to class perpared, i.e. having read the material before the lecture. Just something to consider.

 

Very good suggestion here, Tina. The only problem is that I had already purchased all the UG core books for this unit because the original plan was to do it during 5th grade. We have been acquiring D level books and setting aside for YR 2. I may need to look over again and see if I can pull some D level books in there for U4 - although at this point money is tight and I can't afford to add extra books to my lists. With only one student, we don't have a family library built up that I can just pull from. Please pray for wisdom as I consider all of this.

 

I'm not in a support group either. Since I work part-time outside the home, PLUS hs, I just can't afford the time. I have a close friend nearby that hs's and we have what we call a little co-op, but its really just for class time, not mommy sharing time. Like you, this forum has been my support group. I belong to a couple of other forums, but there is very little activity at them compared to the Hive. I've connected with some really great people here that have been very instrumental in my hs practices. I'm starting to think of you as my TOG expert lately!

 

Did you think of that other thing yet? I'm all :bigear:s!

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

[bkpan]

Thank you for your kindness. I'm not part of a support group that meets regularly around here...no time and honestly no desire (BTDT); and although my dearest friends all home school, we're all so busy we rarely get together (save email and facebook...just not the same). This place is my support group; and support groups are wonderful b/c they give you: Mandate, Mentor, Mentorship. A beautiful triad :)

 

It seems like there was something else I had in mind for you, but is has left me. That's what I get for not writing it down! If I remember, I'll re-post. If not, then I suppose it wasn't meant to be (or I'm a moron! :lol:).

 

Tina,

 

May I hijack this thread and ask your opinion? I noticed that you have a large family as well and are quite a TOG fan. I tried to implement TOG2 last year and failed miserably. Just never seemed to find a groove to get going.:(

 

My oldest two are 13yo and 11yo. Part of the reason that I am considering using HO for now, and TOG later (see other thread), is the emphasis that HO puts on outlining, which is where the WTM says to put your efforts in this age. I confess that we have done almost no training in this area and boys will be in 6th and 8th. I was wondering if the year of outlining emphasis would be good for them, and then to move into TOG later.

 

What do you think? Any ideas for me? BTW, I have learned a great deal from your posts. Thanks!

 

Kim

[HSMom2One]

Of course, my plan always works perfectly on paper and less so in practice.

 

Isn't that the way it always goes? I hear you, sister!

 

Your plan looks really good, by the way.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

[johnandtinagilbert]

Tina,

 

May I hijack this thread and ask your opinion? I noticed that you have a large family as well and are quite a TOG fan. I tried to implement TOG2 last year and failed miserably. Just never seemed to find a groove to get going.:(

 

My oldest two are 13yo and 11yo. Part of the reason that I am considering using HO for now, and TOG later (see other thread), is the emphasis that HO puts on outlining, which is where the WTM says to put your efforts in this age. I confess that we have done almost no training in this area and boys will be in 6th and 8th. I was wondering if the year of outlining emphasis would be good for them, and then to move into TOG later.

 

What do you think? Any ideas for me? BTW, I have learned a great deal from your posts. Thanks!

 

Kim

I don't think you're hijacking. When I remember :glare:, I try and mention we built up to all we do in TOG. Our first years of history (not w/ TOG) were bare bones. History w/ SOTW/MOH, maps and reading suggestions. We'd did narrations and mini-reports from reading in order to build lap books and mini-books. An occasional headdress, shield weapon (boys :) )

 

Choosing HO b/c of outlining as a focus might work well for you. On the other hand, maybe you're making a mountain out of a mole hill. Teaching outlining doesn't have to be progressive. At the ages of your children, a little boot camp could be the ticket. Here's my experience.

 

I read WTM and added encyclopedia outlining. I was expecting too much from them and finding encyclopedias hard to outline. I find they're written so briefly that many points are brought up in every paragraph, too hard to narrow down. We also tend to narrate much more than one idea, so maybe its just how we learn. Anyways, it was a total disaster. We all hated it, so I dropped it.

 

Fast forward, I suddenly had a 5th, 6th and 7th grader who couldn't really outline all that well (hardly), so here's what I did. I told them I screwed up. I told them in learning about home schooling and trying to put all the pieces together, I neglected to teach them outlining and we needed to have a little boot camp. If they could give me a couple of weeks of hard work, I could show them how easily they could acquire this skill.

 

I pulled out a one page essay they had written on a history topic and applied their knowledge of grammar and writing in reverse. I taught them to write a paragraph using a sandwich analogy a couple years earlier. Slices of bread for intro and closing and lots of yummy stuff inside. A good sandwich has meat, cheese, lettuce, tomato, etc. Each edible should be a detail in the paragraph, otherwise, it's just boring meat and bread. Reminding them of their sandwich, I asked for the topic sentence and when they told me, I wrote it down on the board as

I. Topic Sentence

 

I asked for the first supporting detail and did the same, then the second, and finally the third. I wrote them down, too. Finally, I placed the closing next to the Topic Sentence

 

I. Topic Sentence/Closing Sentence

 

 

• A. Supporting detail sentence.

 

 

 

• B. Supporting detail sentence.

• C. Supporting detail sentence. (Sorry about the bullets, its the only way they'll stay over enough to look correct)

 

 

I pointed out the structure of the outline and how everything lines up by simply writing a straight line over the words, using a different colored marker.

 

On that day, we practiced this together for the entire essay, five paragraphs.

 

Day Two:

We took each of the sentences and pulled out the main phrase or idea of each sentence and re-created our outline, maintaining structure and substance, but taking out complete sentences and leaving phrases.

 

We did this for all 5 paragraphs...now Roman Numerals.

 

Day Three:

See if you can break down phrases even further to single words.

 

Practice this routine together with as many paragraphs, from any writing or book or subject material until they're comfy. It won't take long for them to understand how, then you put it into practice by assigning outlines for their core/spine reading regularly.

 

At some point, when they are comfy, consistent, and not finding outlines work (work and not liking are not the same thing, i.e. "It's easy I just don't like it" attitude) you show them that in the same way you tore down their paragraphs in order to learn outlining, you'll now build paragraphs up, coming from the outline.

 

You can show them single word or phrase outlines are great for note-taking during lectures.

 

Anyways, I hope this makes sense. If outlining focus is the only thing keeping you away from time with TOG, then by all means, don't let it. It's as easy as assigning an outline, once your kids get a couple practice lessons under their belts. Really, it won't be that hard for any of you. Over time, and it took me a while to learn, there are some things that I can teach much quicker than waiting on a program or starting in tiny chunks and staying there for a while. Sometimes, just teaching the whole to an older kid is just as easy as incremental or progressive steps throughout grammar school...some things, not all :)

 

FWIW, I introduced outlining in 2nd grade this year. Some days, we use it instead of narration or coypwork, It makes for a nice rotation of activities and has completely taken any drudgery or fear out of outling. This go round, I'm using it in parts to whole, instead of whole to parts :) Trying to grow where I'm planted, ya' know!

Edited July 2, 2010 by johnandtinagilbert

[johnandtinagilbert]

Very good suggestion here, Tina. The only problem is that I had already purchased all the UG core books for this unit because the original plan was to do it during 5th grade. We have been acquiring D level books and setting aside for YR 2. I may need to look over again and see if I can pull some D level books in there for U4 - although at this point money is tight and I can't afford to add extra books to my lists. With only one student, we don't have a family library built up that I can just pull from. Please pray for wisdom as I consider all of this.

 

I'm not in a support group either. Since I work part-time outside the home, PLUS hs, I just can't afford the time. I have a close friend nearby that hs's and we have what we call a little co-op, but its really just for class time, not mommy sharing time. Like you, this forum has been my support group. I belong to a couple of other forums, but there is very little activity at them compared to the Hive. I've connected with some really great people here that have been very instrumental in my hs practices. I'm starting to think of you as my TOG expert lately!

 

Did you think of that other thing yet? I'm all :bigear:s!

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

I will pray for you. Some moms let their dc read the Teacher's Notes Encyclopedic portions. If nothing more, you know she'll know to expect in lecture and this may aid her in both outlining and discussion preparedness.

 

pfttt TOG expert, no...good copycat, yes :001_huh::001_smile:

[Capt_Uhura]

What a great post Tina! I love how you taught paragraphs and outlining!

 

Capt_Uhura