Grade this:

[Aubrey]

 

the secret garden

 

 

 

 

I like how there are 3 secret gardens in The Secret Garden, 1st there is the garden wich no one has seen for 10 yaers. 2ant (Second) there is mary, at first, she is maen & selfish, then she starts exersising & getting helthyer. 3rd there is collen. At first he thinks he will die. then, mary finds him & tells him he won't. at first he dosent beleve her. then she covenses him that he won't die. The garden, mary, & collen help one anather. first the garden helps mary & collen get intrested in some thing. Next, mary is a mirror for colen & he is a mirror for her. then, both collen & mary help the garden to blosom.

 

 

 

ETA: This was an off-the-cuff reading response. First draft. Assignment: "You've got 5 min. Write something--some kind of response to what we're reading."

 

 

I'd like your opinions of grade level, etc. & why, if you don't mind. I've got opinions on it, but...other than hs'ing, I have no experience w/ elem writing, & I'm so close to the situation...I'd like to see your thoughts first. And fwiw, I don't think you have to be gentle. I showed this to dh last night. One of us thought it was amazing; the other thought it was tragically bad. :lol: So we've got the full gammut here. ;)

 

 

Edited June 11, 2010 by Aubrey

[8filltheheart]

the secret garden

 

 

 

 

I like how there are 3 secret gardens in The Secret Garden, 1st there is the garden wich no one has seen for 10 yaers. 2ant (Second) there is mary, at first, she is maen & selfish, then she starts exersising & getting helthyer. 3rd there is collen. At first he thinks he will die. then, mary finds him & tells him he won't. at first he dosent beleve her. then she covenses him that he won't die. The garden, mary, & collen help one anather. first the garden helps mary & collen get intrested in some thing. Next, mary is a mirror for colen & he is a mirror for her. then, both collen & mary help the garden to blosom.

 

 

 

I'd like your opinions of grade level, etc. & why, if you don't mind. I've got opinions on it, but...other than hs'ing, I have no experience w/ elem writing, & I'm so close to the situation...I'd like to see your thoughts first. And fwiw, I don't think you have to be gentle. I showed this to dh last night. One of us thought it was amazing; the other thought it was tragically bad. :lol: So we've got the full gammut here. ;)

 

 

 

If it was written by the 9 yo, I would argee with the tragically bad. If it was written by the 7 yo, I would agree with amazing.

 

But, simply, I would never have expected either to write something like this on their own w/o a lot more guidance and control over the situation so that the glaring errors could have occurred in the first place. ;) I know that you use MCT and he does not advocate outlining.......but knowing the function of a TS and supporting details and outlining them to see relationships would have prevented some of the problems. :tongue_smilie:

 

ETA: I don't really give grades to my non-high school kids writing. More along the lines of what needs to be edited and then they re-write. But I am a lot more hands on when they first start writing formal assignments. my 8 yod is constantly writing her own newspapers (inspired from Liberty Kids.) They are full of mistakes but wonderful insights. Those I am completely hands off on and love them for the independent inspirations that they are!

Edited June 11, 2010 by 8FillTheHeart

[lionfamily1999]

Okay, I would edit this before I graded it and then give them a grade on the finished project. As a rough draft, I would give this a 'B' if they worked completely alone. If this was narrated and then dictated back to them, I would give a 'C' (again, for a rough draft). My thought being, writing this completely by themself, I would expect some mistakes. Writing this while having it dictated, I would expect fewer mistakes.

 

The writing mistakes I'd put at (for my ds) a first or early second grade level. The idea is very interesting, I like the way they supported their idea, that is (imo/based on ds) third grade work. I would not accept the writing mistakes in a final draft though.

 

So, if it's a final draft.......... well, it wouldn't be here :p I'd go with B or C, because I don't have the heart to be mean to someone else's little that put so much thought into their report.

 

Not a final draft? Then I'd edit and for every mistake that gets left behind dump points.

[Aubrey]

I added some details of the assignment to the OP. We're doing a revision today either way. Thanks for your thoughts so far. Will post more after we revise.

[abbeyej]

The first thing I would do is say to the child, "Okay, that's a start. Now will you please look over this and see if there are any punctuation, capitalization, or spelling errors that you can find and correct before I take a look..." Sometimes a child needs to get thoughts on paper and *then* go back and fix little things that they *should* know but that aren't yet automatic when they're also thinking about *what* to write.

 

I'd hope that they could find a large percentage of those errors without help -- even if they aren't certain of the correct spellings of some words.

 

Once the child had a somewhat cleaned-up copy of the paper, I'd want to discuss the ideas and organization along with better sentence structure. ... I do find the idea of "three secret gardens" a little more than abstract for an elementary aged student. Did he or she come up with the idea on his or her own? Or was that a result of some leading discussion? If the first, that's great. If the second... Well... It's not an approach to literature that I would take with children this age unless a child was naturally bent that way.

 

But I guess for a 7 or 9 year old, I wouldn't be "grading" at all. We'd be fixing. We'd fix mechanical problems, we'd talk about ways to reword and clarify... And then I would have the child re-write the paper incorporating all of our corrections. And once it was free of mechanical errors and we had worked through some better organization and sentence structure, I'd tell them how proud I was (and I would be!) and we'd file it and move on.

[lionfamily1999]

I added some details of the assignment to the OP. We're doing a revision today either way. Thanks for your thoughts so far. Will post more after we revise.

Ok, that makes a HUGE difference. A five minute scramble of a report?!? That's fantastic. I'm with you :D Amazing.

[8filltheheart]

I added some details of the assignment to the OP. We're doing a revision today either way. Thanks for your thoughts so far. Will post more after we revise.

 

Well, goodness, Aubrey, that was sort of vital info, don't ya think?? ;)

 

In that case, I think it is pretty darn wonderful no matter which child wrote it! 5 mins.......heck, that is a lot of pressure! You should see high school essays when kids first start practicing for ACT/SAT 25 min prompts!

 

I'm not sure it is a tactic that I would personally use, though. I could see my kids taking this approach to more formal assignments and trying to fix their mistakes vs. really thinking logically about what they want to write and approaching the assignment with greater precision and appropriate writing strategies. ;)

[Carol in Cal.]

the secret garden

 

 

 

 

I like how there are 3 secret gardens in The Secret Garden, 1st there is the garden wich no one has seen for 10 yaers. 2ant (Second) there is mary, at first, she is maen & selfish, then she starts exersising & getting helthyer. 3rd there is collen. At first he thinks he will die. then, mary finds him & tells him he won't. at first he dosent beleve her. then she covenses him that he won't die. The garden, mary, & collen help one anather. first the garden helps mary & collen get intrested in some thing. Next, mary is a mirror for colen & he is a mirror for her. then, both collen & mary help the garden to blosom.

 

 

 

ETA: This was an off-the-cuff reading response. First draft. Assignment: "You've got 5 min. Write something--some kind of response to what we're reading."

 

 

I'd like your opinions of grade level, etc. & why, if you don't mind. I've got opinions on it, but...other than hs'ing, I have no experience w/ elem writing, & I'm so close to the situation...I'd like to see your thoughts first. And fwiw, I don't think you have to be gentle. I showed this to dh last night. One of us thought it was amazing; the other thought it was tragically bad. :lol: So we've got the full gammut here. ;)

 

 

 

I'm really impressed with the insight shown here.

This is a draft, and written very quickly.

I would not expect a scratch draft to have good punctuation and spelling. I would be far more interested in the ideas expressed at this point, and they are fairly sophisticated.

I love the opening hook, "There are 3 secret gardens in "The Secret Garden."" That is an engaging, punchy, thought-provoking opening sentence. It also demonstrates analysis that I think might be fairly advanced for an elementary student.

[Spy Car]

I'm very impressed with the mind of a child who can see deep enough into the story to see there are three "gardens" to be cultivated. A child with that kind of intelligence and insight can learn better spelling and sentence structure, but what she has is harder to "teach." I would be thrilled!

 

Are there some "teachable" things she needs to learn? Absolutely. So what. That's what education is about. But there is something there that is impressive and thoughtful and shows great promise for the future.

 

Bill

[8filltheheart]

I'm very impressed with the mind of a child who can see deep enough into the story to see there are three "gardens" to be cultivated. A child with that kind of intelligence and insight can learn better spelling and sentence structure, but what she has is harder to "teach." I would be thrilled!

 

Are there some "teachable" things she needs to learn? Absolutely. So what. That's what education is about. But there is something there that is impressive and thoughtful and shows great promise for the future.

 

Bill

 

 

I am curious about this......did your child come up with the 3 gardens completely independently or were you discussing this with him/her? If they came up with it totally on their own, that is extremely sophisticated reasoning. I simply assumed that you had been discussing it and this was an attempt to summarize what you had been covering.

[lionfamily1999]

I'm really impressed with the insight shown here.

This is a draft, and written very quickly.

I would not expect a scratch draft to have good punctuation and spelling. I would be far more interested in the ideas expressed at this point, and they are fairly sophisticated.

I love the opening hook, "There are 3 secret gardens in "The Secret Garden."" That is an engaging, punchy, thought-provoking opening sentence. It also demonstrates analysis that I think might be fairly advanced for an elementary student.

The time and draft were not clear at first.

[abbeyej]

...

This is a draft, and written very quickly....

Those of us who responded above didn't know that though. ;) The information was provided later. ... And yes, it would change my opinion -- though probably not so much how I would handle correcting and moving on.

[Tam101]

I'm very impressed with the mind of a child who can see deep enough into the story to see there are three "gardens" to be cultivated. A child with that kind of intelligence and insight can learn better spelling and sentence structure, but what she has is harder to "teach." I would be thrilled!

 

Are there some "teachable" things she needs to learn? Absolutely. So what. That's what education is about. But there is something there that is impressive and thoughtful and shows great promise for the future.

 

Bill

:iagree:

[Carol in Cal.]

The time and draft were not clear at first.

 

I find the insight very impressive for an elementary student. I have read "The Secret Garden" many times, starting when I was about 8 or so, and never thought of it that way before. I found myself nodding in agreement with a fair amount of surprise.

[Ellie]

I'm very impressed with the mind of a child who can see deep enough into the story to see there are three "gardens" to be cultivated. A child with that kind of intelligence and insight can learn better spelling and sentence structure, but what she has is harder to "teach." I would be thrilled!

 

Are there some "teachable" things she needs to learn? Absolutely. So what. That's what education is about. But there is something there that is impressive and thoughtful and shows great promise for the future.

 

Bill

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[Aubrey]

Ok, so here's the rest of the story:

 

This was written by ds9 after a conversation about the story. So the insight really wasn't just his own, although he did sort-of see some of it. His mind does go that way, & it's exciting, but sometimes I have trouble waiting. LOL

 

When I ask him to write narrations, they tend to be a single sentence w/ little thought, even if I've just practically told him verbatim what to write. Otoh, if he sees some deep insight into something, he has really started to enjoy getting that down on paper. Sometimes & sort-of.

 

I was thrilled that he chose to write more than a sentence & that he was able to get the ideas we'd discussed back down onto paper. (Even if they were a little garbled.)

 

After looking at it today (w/ no comments from me), he's found all the capitalization errors & some of the spelling. When I asked him about them, he said he was writing too fast to think about that. Hahaha. If I give him time to think about these things, though, he freezes up & writes virtually nothing.

 

So my thinking on this is to get him writing & give him time to do revisions. But I think I tend to be either way too hard on him (from teaching college writing) or way too easy (for the same reasons, lol).

 

I looked at it & was at once thrilled & disappointed, if that makes sense. But I thought maybe the disappointment was a result of too-high expectations. So when I showed it to dh & he complained later that I'm supposed to tell him ahead of time if what he's looking at is great or terrible (!), I figured I needed a second opinion.

 

Seeing ds's writing develop, I've started thinking (& this is off-the-map for me), maybe we teach writing too young. Maybe there's a maturity thing that kicks in & makes that kind of thinking possible/easier/etc. I don't buy into that philosophy w/ other things, but I've banged my head against a brick wall w/ this boy w/ writing for so long & now he's suddenly writing things that have substance & length. No grammar, spelling, or punctuation, lol, but light. As if there's hope. Hehehee.

 

So partly--if this was typical of a late 3rd grader, that would have been a great relief. If not...well, I hope I know what I'm doing. I *think* I've got a good path for getting him to be a good writer. And I try to remind myself of the writing I encountered in highschool students & how much they were able to grow in a yr.

 

But of course, there's always...what if I'm wrong? :001_unsure:

[lionfamily1999]

I find the insight very impressive for an elementary student. I have read "The Secret Garden" many times, starting when I was about 8 or so, and never thought of it that way before. I found myself nodding in agreement with a fair amount of surprise.

I did think the idea was interesting. When I first posted, though, I was under the impression that this was a finished product, in which case the idea is great, but the execution was ... well.

 

:shrug:

 

I forget that not everyone uses TWTM methods and that does color my opinion. Creative thought is great, but for us, the mechanics are more important right now.

[Aubrey]

Those of us who responded above didn't know that though. ;) The information was provided later. ... And yes, it would change my opinion -- though probably not so much how I would handle correcting and moving on.

 

Really sorry. :blush: I didn't think of that in my OP.

[Carol in Cal.]

Formulating the line of the story/paper and getting a first draft done, editing the content and structure and wording, and then editing for grammar/usage issues.

 

I tend to want to go straight to final draft form, but that's not reasonable for most young children. Frankly, I'm not sure that it's reasonable for most children through early middle school.

[Carol in Cal.]

I did think the idea was interesting. When I first posted, though, I was under the impression that this was a finished product, in which case the idea is great, but the execution was ... well.

 

:shrug:

 

I forget that not everyone uses TWTM methods and that does color my opinion. Creative thought is great, but for us, the mechanics are more important right now.

 

But I celebrate what they head for, and early glimpses of that are exciting to me.

[lionfamily1999]

But of course, there's always...what if I'm wrong? :001_unsure:

Okay, so this is what I meant when I wrote "I forget that not everyone uses TWTM method."

 

See, as far as writing goes, SWB does believe we teach creative writing too early. So, we start with copywork, copying someone else's beautiful writing. Then we add in narration, coming up with original thoughts in complete sentences. They narrate, parent writes it down, and sometimes they copy it. From there goes dictation, they learn to hold the sentences in their head. So, they narrate and parent dictates what they've narrated.

 

I find this to be a wonderful approach to writing. Ds can write whatever he wants on his own time, but for assignments we're at the narrate and then dictate stage, slowing moving into ds being able to write without my dictating it back.

 

I do think it's too much to ask them to create an original idea, hold it in their head, form complete sentences and then translate it all into written language.

 

Honestly, reading the whole story, I would've been very proud of my ds. That was a very short time limit you gave him, and I always love when they go above and beyond :D

[lionfamily1999]

Really sorry. :blush: I didn't think of that in my OP.

Yeah yeah, you just wanted to make us look mean :p

[Aubrey]

Formulating the line of the story/paper and getting a first draft done, editing the content and structure and wording, and then editing for grammar/usage issues.

 

I tend to want to go straight to final draft form, but that's not reasonable for most young children. Frankly, I'm not sure that it's reasonable for most children through early middle school.

 

That's my thinking. I've even written an article about it for HOTM this month. But *still*--I'm not as confident about my approach to writing as, say, I am about phonics for reading. So when I get this kind of paper, even for a rough draft, one piece of my says Yay for content, & the other piece says Oh my gosh you're a grammar teacher failure. :001_huh: I'd love to see ds get far enough along in his writing that I can make that other voice hush. :lol:

[Carol in Cal.]

Okay, so this is what I meant when I wrote "I forget that not everyone uses TWTM method."

 

See, as far as writing goes, SWB does believe we teach creative writing too early. So, we start with copywork, copying someone else's beautiful writing. Then we add in narration, coming up with original thoughts in complete sentences. They narrate, parent writes it down, and sometimes they copy it. From there goes dictation, they learn to hold the sentences in their head. So, they narrate and parent dictates what they've narrated.

 

I find this to be a wonderful approach to writing. Ds can write whatever he wants on his own time, but for assignments we're at the narrate and then dictate stage, slowing moving into ds being able to write without my dictating it back.

 

I do think it's too much to ask them to create an original idea, hold it in their head, form complete sentences and then translate it all into written language.

 

Honestly, reading the whole story, I would've been very proud of my ds. That was a very short time limit you gave him, and I always love when they go above and beyond :D

 

I think that it's wise to pursue these methods and this approach in parallel.

[Aubrey]

Okay, so this is what I meant when I wrote "I forget that not everyone uses TWTM method."

 

See, as far as writing goes, SWB does believe we teach creative writing too early. So, we start with copywork, copying someone else's beautiful writing. Then we add in narration, coming up with original thoughts in complete sentences. They narrate, parent writes it down, and sometimes they copy it. From there goes dictation, they learn to hold the sentences in their head. So, they narrate and parent dictates what they've narrated.

 

I find this to be a wonderful approach to writing. Ds can write whatever he wants on his own time, but for assignments we're at the narrate and then dictate stage, slowing moving into ds being able to write without my dictating it back.

 

I do think it's too much to ask them to create an original idea, hold it in their head, form complete sentences and then translate it all into written language.

 

Honestly, reading the whole story, I would've been very proud of my ds. That was a very short time limit you gave him, and I always love when they go above and beyond :D

 

I adore SWB & WTM. Part of me wants to be a good little classical hs'er. Gosh, that sounds snarky, but I mean it sincerely.

 

But more & more, I find that...well...there were parts of my ps writing ed that I liked. There were things I learned in college that I think could have been taught sooner & would have been good.

 

I don't like dictation & copywork. But I admire SWB so much that it's really hard & guilt-inducing to do something else. Now *that* sounds codependent. :lol:

 

Anyway, if ds were producing brilliant writing, I'd be ok going my own way. As it is...I get nervous. Because...I might be a kook. (Thanks, lionfam.)

Edited June 11, 2010 by Aubrey

[lionfamily1999]

I think that it's wise to pursue these methods and this approach in parallel.

Ok, brag alert, but I'm bursting at the seams :p I will type in white so no one has to see it but...

 

I started hsing in December of 2008. Ds standardized test scores that June had him in the 90s for reading/writing, so about a high school level for reading and middle school for writing. However, his grammar scores were rediculous and if the bar wasn't set so low he'd have bombed writing. His scores this year have him at a 12.8 grade level for both writing and reading and (get this :D) He got a perfect score for grammar. Math has gone up incredibly too, but I'm so proud of his writing since we've started this.

 

So, I have great faith in SWB's writing methods. Ds writes letters every week too and THAT has done a great deal for his ability to write independantly. Honestly, though, he comes by it naturally.

 

ETA: Aubrey, kook maybe?? One of the reasons that I do not stray too far from TWTM is that I know it works. Proof's in the pudding and all that. Jessie Wise's children grew up to be successful adults. I totally understand about worrying that I might ruin them. When it gets like that, I go back and remind myself, SWB was hsed just like this... or very close to it anyway :p

Edited June 11, 2010 by lionfamily1999

[Aubrey]

Ok, brag alert, but I'm bursting at the seams :p I will type in white so no one has to see it but...

 

I started hsing in December of 2008. Ds standardized test scores that June had him in the 90s for reading/writing, so about a high school level for reading and middle school for writing. However, his grammar scores were rediculous and if the bar wasn't set so low he'd have bombed writing. His scores this year have him at a 12.8 grade level for both writing and reading and (get this :D) He got a perfect score for grammar. Math has gone up incredibly too, but I'm so proud of his writing since we've started this.

 

So, I have great faith in SWB's writing methods. Ds writes letters every week too and THAT has done a great deal for his ability to write independantly. Honestly, though, he comes by it naturally.

 

Congratulations! It's not necessarily that I don't have faith in SWB's writing methods...it's more that...I guess I'm wondering if they're one-size-fits-all.

 

Ds was never good at copywork--it's boring. And honestly, I don't blame him. I hated all forms of writing until I was about 10. But knowing what caught my attention at that age & how it shaped my writing later...somewhow, I wonder if the answer (for us) lies in that. It had to do w/ observation & description, & I have had good results from requiring an observation journal. Not necessarily good grammatical results, but...I guess I consider that a separate subject & synthesis of the two to be a maturity thing. Or experience.

 

It's so embarrassing to tell y'all what I think about elem writing, though. It's the aspect of hs'ing I'm most insecure about. If only dd were the oldest...language is her thing. I'd think I was BRILLIANT at teaching writing. :lol:

[Carol in Cal.]

I adore SWB & WTM. Part of me wants to be a good little classical hs'er. Gosh, that sounds snarky, but I mean it sincerely.

 

But more & more, I find that...well...there were parts of my ps writing ed that I liked. There were things I learned in college that I think could have been taught sooner & would have been good.

 

I don't like dictation & copywork. But I admire SWB so much that it's really hard & guilt-inducing to do something else. Now *that* sounds codependent. :lol:

 

 

 

SWB would be the first to say that you should teach your child your way. The first, really!

 

And as I always say, teach your OWN child, not some THEORETICAL child that you read about in a book.

 

Having said that, I have a DD who really struggled with spelling and mechanics early on, to the extent that I was told that she probably had disgraphia. But she has always loved stories and been fairly good at various types of composition and at formulating her ideas into words. So separating those skills and working on them as if they were different subjects has been very helpful. Copywork, Editor in Chief, and Phonetic Zoo have really taught her the function language arts that she needs. (Rod and Staff grammar was good, but not nearly as helpful as you might imagine, functionally.) In parallel, though, literary discussions, summary writing, thesis paper production, and fiction/poetry writing along the way have really developed her as a composer of writing. I see no reason to avoid those things if you have a creative child and if you're not letting them squeeze out the functional stuff.

 

And this year, due to her high scores in language arts, DD was offered spots in honors global studies AND honors English for next year's matriculation to high school. She writes poetry and fiction that I would be proud to write. And she can formulate a thesis about a book in about a minute, and then write a paper about it in about 15. (Proofreading then takes about 30, though. A crash course in quick in-class essays is scheduled for this summer.) Bottom line--do both. You won't be sorry.

[8filltheheart]

If my understanding of what actually happened is clear, then his content is still excellent for a 5 min prompt. My 9 yo children can't even write letters fast enough to even be able to write that many words in 5 minutes, forget about having to think about what they are going to write at the same time.

 

What I honestly think, though, is that you cannot realistically evaluate his writing based on what you have given us. The mistakes in what you posted are huge mistakes for a child that is about to enter 4th grade......but are they really mistakes? There is no way of knowing b/c of the pressure of the situation.

[lionfamily1999]

Congratulations! It's not necessarily that I don't have faith in SWB's writing methods...it's more that...I guess I'm wondering if they're one-size-fits-all.

 

Ds was never good at copywork--it's boring. And honestly, I don't blame him. I hated all forms of writing until I was about 10. But knowing what caught my attention at that age & how it shaped my writing later...somewhow, I wonder if the answer (for us) lies in that. It had to do w/ observation & description, & I have had good results from requiring an observation journal. Not necessarily good grammatical results, but...I guess I consider that a separate subject & synthesis of the two to be a maturity thing. Or experience.

 

It's so embarrassing to tell y'all what I think about elem writing, though. It's the aspect of hs'ing I'm most insecure about. If only dd were the oldest...language is her thing. I'd think I was BRILLIANT at teaching writing. :lol:

Okay, I could see observations as being the exact same thing you want from a narration.

 

As for how you teach writing............ ya know, when it's all said and done, if my ds continues to have the spelling problems he has, there's always spell check. The same thing for grammar. It's always, imo, best to shoot for the moon (a writer with perfect penmanship, excellent spelling, and a strong grasp of grammar, oh and super imaginative to boot), but there's plenty of things to fall back on if you don't quite make it.

[Aubrey]

If my understanding of what actually happened is clear, then his content is still excellent for a 5 min prompt. My 9 yo children can't even write letters fast enough to even be able to write that many words in 5 minutes, forget about having to think about what they are going to write at the same time.

 

What I honestly think, though, is that you cannot realistically evaluate his writing based on what you have given us. The mistakes in what you posted are huge mistakes for a child that is about to enter 4th grade......but are they really mistakes? There is no way of knowing b/c of the pressure of the situation.

 

Ok, here's another sample. The first is a pretty typical first draft for him:

 

On our way to houston there were lots of open prairies there was a truck that had 6 wheels on top!

 

At Battleship texes, we got to go to the very Bottem, we must have been under water! We all so got to go prety high!

 

At the top of the san jacinto monument, I presed the shape of texes, Grace did a horse, on a penny.

 

On the way home we stopped at the statue of Sam Houston, he's the world's 3rd tallest Giant statue of a man! then we went to the Gift shop. I got a sling shot Gun & Grace got some prety rocks.

 

Several drafts later, w/ some discussions about topic sentences & questions about details (still not a final copy):

 

It took us five and a half hours to get to Houston. On our way there, we listened to music and played games like “I Have an Animal” with Granny and Grand Dad. We saw lots of…

 

Battleship Texas was my favorite stop that we made in Houston. It’s the first ship I’ve ever been on and the first battleship I’ve ever seen. Getting to both see and touch and even move parts of the ship made it memorable.

 

The history of the battleship is impressive. Battleship Texas was the first ship with radar which it used to help planes land on the ship. She fout many battles during world war 1 and 2. The people who made her must have gone mad! As long as 2 foot-ball fields, you could watch 2 foot-ball games from your gun!

 

First we went down to the lower levels of the ship. There were three levels beneath the main deck that visitors could go to, and the levels beneath those were closed. There was a sleeping deck on the deck right under the main deck. When I stepped down into the sleeping deck, I saw lots and lots of beds hanging from the ceiling on chains. Every four chains hung five beds.

 

A little further down, we saw something like a geared pulley that hoists anchors, but this one had no anchor. It only had the rope that used to hold the ship’s anchor. The end of the rope was curled and frayed, where the anchor had been. We got to turn the handle to try to lift the rope, but even without the anchor, the rope was so thick and heavy, we couldn’t lift it at all. The sailors must have been really strong!

 

In the middle deck there were three rooms: the doctors office, the hospital room, and the dentists office. In the doctors office, there was one long bed for patients & 2 sinks. In the hospital room, there were more beds for sick sailors & a checkerboard to help them pass the time. The pieces to the checkerboard were wooden instead of plastic. In The dentists office, there was a great big light & lots of scary dental tools.

 

The Engine room was the lowest down you could go, we must have been under water, Glug! Glug! In the Engine room, there was a door, where you crank a handal to un-lock it! If you crank one way, the lock goes up, if you crank the other way the lock goes down. There was also a glassed out area that had machines, guns, & a broken cannon we could see.

 

Once we had come back up out of the dark belly of the ship, we began climbing upward. The top of the ship was closed to tourists because it was too high and too dangerous. We didn‘t get to go as high as we were allowed because Granny was too scared, but we did get to go high enough that the people down below looked as small as birds. I think we were at the gun director.

 

I really liked that there was so much to explor how parts of the ship work and move. There was the engine room. Even the doors were engines. To opne a door, you had to turn a handle that would turn a bunch of gears and unlock the door so you could go through. We got to actually turn the guns and lift them up and down. You load the biggest guns from two levels down from where they shoot.

 

The San Jacinto Monument was close to the Battleship Texas, so we went there next. The Monument was the tallest building I’ve ever been in. We got to see a museum at the bottom & a big view of Houston at the top. We missed seeing the Battle ground though.

The Monument is a tall, skinny white building with a star at the top. The base of the Monument is a large square museum while the top is only wide enough for an elevator & a set of stairs. When I walked up to the monument, I had to tilt my head so far back to see the top that it made me dizzy!

 

The San Jacinto Monument is a big building built in honer of the Texans who fought in the Battle of San Jacinto, fought when Texas rebelled against Mexico. First, the Texans lost when the Alamo fell. Then they lost again at the Battle of Goliad! Finally, Texas won her independence at the Battle of San Jacinto. The day after the war was over, Santa Anna’s men gave away his disguise by calling him “Your Exellency”.

 

I saw Sam Houston’s sword and pen and clothes. His clothes are completely blue. His pen was completely gold, and his sword was partly gold and partly silver.

 

I was really surprised that they would put his pen and clothes in the museum. It’s personal stuff that you don’t usually see. I liked seeing it, though, because it was so unusual. I think they included these things because Sam Houston is one of the most important men in Texas and because seeing Houston’s personal effects will help them understand how real he was. I think Sam Houston used his pen to sine the trety with Santa Anna.

 

As we went down the hall, we made owr way to Santa Anna’s weponry. Santa Anna had 3 3-4 foot curly swords, a 9-10 foot curly sword, 3 1 foot daggers, & a 4-5 foot musket with a blade at the end!!!! I wondered if that musket was the gun that shot S. H. in the ankle.

 

A big picture of Santa Anna took up most of the space. His face was broad, as if he were a good triker. He also had a sense of loss. He had square cheeks, brown skin, black hair, & his hat, a generals hat, curled up & down & over & down & up.

 

After we saw the museum, we rode to the top of the Monument. It took 37 seconds to get to the top of the Monument! The top of the Monument was one small empty room with only peny pressing machines & windows. When we looked out the widow we saw the Monument reflected in the reflecting pool! Grand dad let us press pennys! I pressed Texas & Grace pressed Sam Houston on a horse.

 

The San Jacinto battleground lays just outside the monument. From the top of the tower, we saw the reflecting pool, but we missed the forests and the marsh land where the battle was fought. The Texas Parks and Wildlife Department has preserved the natural landscape of the battleground because the prairie grasses and forest line played such an important role in the battle. Thanks to gheir work, it is easier for visitors to imagine Houston‘s 900 men screened by a grove of hardwood trees and then quietly crawling through the waist high grass to take Santa Anna and his sleeping men by surprise.

 

My favorite part was looking out a window at the reflecting pool that reflects the San Jacinto monument.

[Aubrey]

Okay, I could see observations as being the exact same thing you want from a narration.

 

As for how you teach writing............ ya know, when it's all said and done, if my ds continues to have the spelling problems he has, there's always spell check. The same thing for grammar. It's always, imo, best to shoot for the moon (a writer with perfect penmanship, excellent spelling, and a strong grasp of grammar, oh and super imaginative to boot), but there's plenty of things to fall back on if you don't quite make it.

 

This conversation has been really interesting. It had honestly never occurred to me that what I was asking was "creative." I thought it was just a narration. Still very closely related to WTM ideology.

 

I appreciate your thoughts! It used to make me cringe to encounter people who didn't follow WTM to the T, so I appreciate how kind you've been about my..."path." :lol:

[Spock]

Unless you suggested the ideas (Mary and Collin being like gardens) and discussed them while reading, the ideas are very good, and quite advanced for either the 9yo or the 7yo.

 

The spelling/punctuation/capitalization are pretty bad for 9yo, though not bad for a 7yo attempt. It also makes a difference whether they are 9yo finishing 3rd grade or 9yo starting 4th/7yo finishing 1st or 7yo finishing 2nd.

 

Either way, literary analysis is going well, but spelling/etc need to be worked on.

[Colleen in NS]

Several drafts later, .....(still not a final copy):

 

Hi Aubrey,

 

I pretty much agree with 8FilltheHeart so far. Interesting content in the first sample you gave, but wondering about all the mistakes, but also wondering if the mistakes are simply because of the time crunch.

 

About the second one - I'm wondering why "several drafts later" and "still not a final copy". It's great to talk about all the adventure and all the reading, and to get it down on paper, but it seems like so much unnecessary work for a 9yo - but I guess I'm confused about the type of writing you are trying to do - foundations for expository writing, or creative writing.

 

To me, narration is simple - you read, you talk, you ask a few questions, you help him to form his sentences in a grammatically correct way, you write it down or have him write it down. It just seems like it would ultimately end up really confusing to keep on rewriting and rewriting, instead of learning from the get-go how to form sentences in a grammatically correct way (with you modelling it based on his thoughts). And to put properly spelled words on paper (with your help as he does it). And how to boil down a passage into a few sentences illustrating the most important/interesting parts. To me, dictation and narration is where you learn to form your thoughts in a coherent way, and where you learn to get them onto paper properly. It seems to me like it *saves* a ton of revision, revision, revision time in later years. I mean, of course there is always some revision - my ds usually has to revise his narrations each week, because of grammatical errors or to include a little more variety of sentences or to clarify something. But at this point, it's just one revision, of something simple. I think of these writings as practice in grammar/spelling/mechanics/thought processes. But since he was taught how to summarize and how to form sentences properly on paper, the revising is easier for him, not overwhelming with lots of mistakes.

 

Nothing wrong with spending time making several drafts, if the child is enjoying it. But will he get tired of it, before he learns to summarize and form grammatically correct sentences? I just think deliberate narration and dictation are far more efficient, leaving more time for other types of writing that you might or the child might want to do.

Edited June 11, 2010 by Colleen in NS

[Aubrey]

Hi Aubrey,

 

I pretty much agree with 8FilltheHeart so far. Interesting content in the first sample you gave, but wondering about all the mistakes, but also wondering if the mistakes are simply because of the time crunch.

 

About the second one - I'm wondering why "several drafts later" and "still not a final copy". It's great to talk about all the adventure and all the reading, and to get it down on paper, but it seems like so much unnecessary work for a 9yo - but I guess I'm confused about the type of writing you are trying to do - foundations for expository writing, or creative writing.

 

We've worked on ea stop on the trip as sort-of a separate paper, & we don't work on it *that* often. He can handle a couple of paragraphs at a time, & I didn't want to lose his enthusiasm by making him work longer on it. I could have pulled it out more often, but...it's messy.

 

To me, narration is simple - you read, you talk, you ask a few questions, you help him to form his sentences in a grammatically correct way, you write it down or have him write it down. It just seems like it would ultimately end up really confusing to keep on rewriting and rewriting, instead of learning from the get-go how to form sentences in a grammatically correct way (with you modelling it based on his thoughts). And to put properly spelled words on paper (with your help as he does it). And how to boil down a passage into a few sentences illustrating the most important/interesting parts. To me, dictation and narration is where you learn to form your thoughts in a coherent way, and where you learn to get them onto paper properly. It seems to me like it *saves* a ton of revision, revision, revision time in later years. I mean, of course there is always some revision - my ds usually has to revise his narrations each week, because of grammatical errors or to include a little more variety of sentences or to clarify something. But at this point, it's just one revision, of something simple. I think of these writings as practice in grammar/spelling/mechanics/thought processes. But since he was taught how to summarize and how to form sentences properly on paper, the revising is easier for him, not overwhelming with lots of mistakes.

 

Nothing wrong with spending time making several drafts, if the child is enjoying it. But will he get tired of it, before he learns to summarize and form grammatically correct sentences? I just think deliberate narration and dictation are far more efficient, leaving more time for other types of writing that you might or the child might want to do.

 

The 2nd sample is the first time he's gotten really enthusiastic about writing. He'd add details, I'd cut them apart w/ scissors, he'd reorder them & add more.

 

As to the other stuff...I don't know. When he finds his errors himself, he's excited & doesn't mind fixing them. When I point them out, he doesn't even correct everything I've marked. It's frustrating.

 

Somehow, the way that we're doing it inspires him to work harder. But we haven't spent a lot of time on writing because...I haven't found a method or curric that I love. I'm not good at being consistent w/ a subject w/out that. And...until recently, the battle to get him to write *anything* was just too exhausting.

 

I guess writing needs to be our #1 goal this yr. :blushing: I sure wish I'd liked Writing Strands way back when we started that.

[Capt_Uhura]

I'm looking forward to reading all the responses but wanted to chime in while I have 5 secs to rub together. I think I'm with Julie Bogart of Bravewriter on this one. If he's getting his thoughts down, this is basically a 5min freewrite. You don't worry about grammar, punctuation, and capitalization. The focus is getting your thoughts on paper. Then you go back and flesh out incomplete ideas and discard others. You separate the mechanics/editing of writing from the thought generating phase. Then you give DC the red pen and let them mark it up. After years of writing this way, they will begin writing more with correct structure the first time. I recall writing my dissertation, sometimes I'd get so hung up on one stupid sentence, I'd lose my train of thought. I think freewriting is a useful skill to have....feeling free to get thoughts on paper w/out regards to mechanics.

 

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

[Kuovonne]

My oldest is still young, so take this with a grain of salt.

 

The first assignment on "The Secret Garden" sounds like a focused free-write. Therefore, it should not be graded at all. It was simply an exercise in putting thoughts on paper. Give him a hearty congrats for fulfilling the task as assigned. Don't do any revisions, unless he wants to explore some of the ideas as a separate writing assignment. Don't point out or require him to fix any mechanical errors (spelling, capitalization, punctuation). If he brings it up, just comment that when doing a free-write, the mechanics aren't as important as simply getting the ideas down. Getting the mechanics right the first time is a skill that takes a lot of practice to develop and can be developed separately.

 

The revision of the second assignment on visiting the Houston area sounds great. There are some great descriptions and word choices in it that were a pleasure to read. However, as a whole, the essay is a bit long and doesn't have a clear focus. How about leaving the separate parts of the trip as shorter, more focused, writing projects?

 

It looks like mechanics are an issue. Even though you said you don't like copywork and dictation, I recommend a dictation based spelling program like Spelling Plus Dictation. (You can do dictation without doing copywork. My DD hates copywork but takes dictation with little fuss as long as I give her something different every day.) Dictation can also help make things like simple punctuation and capitalization more automatic. I don't think your son has a grammar problem; he has a punctuation problem. He probably hasn't learned enough grammar to understand how to punctuate his complex thoughts. His word usage is fine.

 

You're just starting MCT LA, right? I think that you are going to love it. I've previewed the writing assignments in Town level, and they really have the student think about how to organize their thoughts. The grammar in MCT will also help explain how to identify clauses and phrases so that he can understand those punctuation problems.

Edited June 11, 2010 by Kuovonne

[lionfamily1999]

This conversation has been really interesting. It had honestly never occurred to me that what I was asking was "creative." I thought it was just a narration. Still very closely related to WTM ideology.

 

I appreciate your thoughts! It used to make me cringe to encounter people who didn't follow WTM to the T, so I appreciate how kind you've been about my..."path." :lol:

Ha! I can't judge anyone else's hs. I cling to TWTM, because I know it can work ;)

 

When I say creative, I mean, he's coming up with it on his own. My dh takes a long time to warm up his brain before he can be original. He is mechanically inclined, he likes numbers and solid analytical type stuff (iykwIm). For him, any sort of narration work is creative :p

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

I think it's fine if you've already gotten the mechanics down (iow, middle/high school). I don't do this with ds at all though. I think it's too much to expect him to write it down correctly and saying it's alright not too seems like teaching him bad habits. I don't want him to get into the habit of writing things incorrectly.

 

All the same, in his free time he can write whatever and however his heart desires ;) For school work, though, right now we're focusing on the mechanics.

[Capt_Uhura]

I thought of that but I've not seen any issues w/ my DS9. We do copywork and dictation w/ WWE. He's done WWE1,2 and half way through level 3. He has also taken several Bravewriter classes and writes with most conventions during the freewrite but if he has a word he doesn't know how to spell, he simply underlines it to remind himself to look it up later. Sometimes he doesn't capitalize proper nouns inside a sentence but for a first draft/freewrite, I'm not concerned about that at all. The more he does dictations, the more proper grammar, form, capitalization shows up in his freewrites.

 

I"m not sure how I reconcile this with getting thoughts down on paper correctly the first time. For short things, yep, I agree. But for longer works, there is so much editing, re-working, I don't see a point in trying to write it down all correctly the first time. That's what the editing phase is for. I need to think about this more.

[Aubrey]

When I say creative, I mean, he's coming up with it on his own. My dh takes a long time to warm up his brain before he can be original. He is mechanically inclined, he likes numbers and solid analytical type stuff (iykwIm). For him, any sort of narration work is creative :p

 

So...what do you think about WTM's recs w/ regard to narration? Wouldn't that sort-of qualify as "creative"?

 

Ds loves history, & he can answer any kind of multiple choice question about the content. He can *talk* about it, if I wait a week to ask him. He does ok w/ the review questions in the SOTW AG. But the narrations themselves? Oy.

 

And if I push it too hard, he just stops. Somehow, he'll get it in his head that he can't do something, & that's it. So we've done fewer & fewer narrations over the yrs. I imagine that's the polar opposite of what he needed--practice & all. But there ya go. I've been telling dh for yrs that I'm worried I'm not doing a good job.

[Aubrey]

I thought of that but I've not seen any issues w/ my DS9. We do copywork and dictation w/ WWE. He's done WWE1,2 and half way through level 3. He has also taken several Bravewriter classes and writes with most conventions during the freewrite but if he has a word he doesn't know how to spell, he simply underlines it to remind himself to look it up later. Sometimes he doesn't capitalize proper nouns inside a sentence but for a first draft/freewrite, I'm not concerned about that at all. The more he does dictations, the more proper grammar, form, capitalization shows up in his freewrites.

 

I"m not sure how I reconcile this with getting thoughts down on paper correctly the first time. For short things, yep, I agree. But for longer works, there is so much editing, re-working, I don't see a point in trying to write it down all correctly the first time. That's what the editing phase is for. I need to think about this more.

 

Can you tell me what you've tried for writing/grammar? What have you liked/not liked?

[Aubrey]

My oldest is still young, so take this with a grain of salt.

 

The first assignment on "The Secret Garden" sounds like a focused free-write. Therefore, it should not be graded at all. It was simply an exercise in putting thoughts on paper. Give him a hearty congrats for fulfilling the task as assigned. Don't do any revisions, unless he wants to explore some of the ideas as a separate writing assignment. Don't point out or require him to fix any mechanical errors (spelling, capitalization, punctuation). If he brings it up, just comment that when doing a free-write, the mechanics aren't as important as simply getting the ideas down. Getting the mechanics right the first time is a skill that takes a lot of practice to develop and can be developed separately.

 

Hmmm..."grade" is really the wrong word. I meant something more like "put a grade level" on it. I don't usually grade their writing in the sense of assigning letter grades. I'm too disorganized for that! But actually, it does seem to motivate him to get grades, so I have kind-of tried to get more on the ball w/ that. Gosh, I wish they'd sell Gradespeed to individuals!

 

With less formal assignments like this one (& that's a polite way to put it; we don't do a lot of writing of any kind), I tell him what I like about the 1st copy when he hands it in bursting w/ pride. Then the next day, I pull it out for him to look at again & ask him if he'd change anything. Really, he finds a huge amt of mistakes then. I give him 2 colored pencils--one color to mark what he knows is wrong (& then fix it) & another to mark things he's not sure about, so we can talk about it.

 

Depending on what he comes up w/, that's about it, unless I/he wants to spend longer on it.

 

The revision of the second assignment on visiting the Houston area sounds great. There are some great descriptions and word choices in it that were a pleasure to read. However, as a whole, the essay is a bit long and doesn't have a clear focus. How about leaving the separate parts of the trip as shorter, more focused, writing projects?

 

It's a chronological narrative. Ea spot was its own writing assignment during the revision stages, so writing-wise, it was never much at one time.

 

It looks like mechanics are an issue. Even though you said you don't like copywork and dictation, I recommend a dictation based spelling program like Spelling Plus Dictation. (You can do dictation without doing copywork. My DD hates copywork but takes dictation with little fuss as long as I give her something different every day.) Dictation can also help make things like simple punctuation and capitalization more automatic. I don't think your son has a grammar problem; he has a punctuation problem. He probably hasn't learned enough grammar to understand how to punctuate his complex thoughts. His word usage is fine.

 

This is true. We used FLL sporatically for something like 3 yrs instead of 1 or 2. He learns things pretty well when they're a bit challenging--not too much, not too little. I think I accidentally went too "Slow & Steady" & bored the bejeebers out of him. I don't know how long it will take to fix that, but yeah, we're 1/4-1/2 way thr the 1st level of MCT grammar. He's excited about it, which is good.

 

Revisions today were interesting. Some of the things he asked me about, he knew, but wasn't sure enough. I've gotten to where when he asks how to spell something, I have him spell it aloud the way he thinks it should be. More than 1/2 the time, he's right. He's just 2nd-guessing himself too much. Well, not "just"--he obviously has some holes, I'm just flabbergasted when I see how much he *does* know & doesn't apply.

[Carol in Cal.]

The 'remembering the spelling' is so different from the 'figuring out what to write'. SWB says this, and I have seen it myself; it's so true. So over time, with practice, we learn to do both together. But 4th grade is a little young for that. It is extremely common to do well in spelling but then spell wrongly in writing--it has to be outgrown with practice.

[Carol in Cal.]

It might be helpful to separate them into two different sessions.

 

Also, what I found was that when I did pay too much attention to the editing of a paper, DD composed much better. To preserve her composition skills, I separated composition from editing, and it really, really paid off. Every so often I would offer her a choice of papers to edit and polish into perfection, and those would be such showpieces. Other than that she wrote a lot more than we polished, and edited a lot in other programs instead of doing her own work.

[Capt_Uhura]

Can you tell me what you've tried for writing/grammar? What have you liked/not liked?

 

I'm probably more unsure about the writing process than you are lol but since you've asked I'll share. :001_smile: DS9 has completed WWE1, WWE2, and is halfway through WWE3 (this is my 2nd year HSing him). It's quick, it's easy and I've seen huge strides in his writing it right the first time. I think copywork, and now dictation is making the mechanics more automatic. We've also taken several Bravewriter classes. DS's writing really shocked me w/ these classes so I happily shelled out the big bucks for them. They really motivated him to write. We did Kids Write Basic, then a Hand Holders class. We also did the Just So Stories class which my son and I LOVED LOVED. We then did a non-fiction writing class.

 

For the freewrites, DS would discuss what he wanted to write. He then set a timer and wrote the entire time. We put it away. The next day, he found the pearl in the freewrite and then freewrote to expand on that. We did this several times for each aspect of the story. When it was all done, we cut the sentences apart, he arranged them, I typed them back up and then gave him a red pen to do his edits. I then mopped up any mistakes. Some I went over with him, others not. I made a note of them though and when we came across it in copywork or dictation, I pointed it out to him.

 

He also writes in our Chemistry curriculum this year - basically writing narrations, definitions, summaries.

 

This year we did MCT Island Level and will be moving onto Town level.

 

Next year, we will focus more on writing in history.

 

What I've gathered from the Bravewriter philosophy is get them writing often to practice getting their thoughts on paper. Keep those in a folder. Then every so often, let DC pick one to expand, contract, edit, and polish. Reinforcement is done during dictations.

 

Capt_Uhura

[Kuovonne]

It's a chronological narrative. Ea spot was its own writing assignment during the revision stages, so writing-wise, it was never much at one time.

 

That might be why the piece doesn't really flow. In the revised version, individual paragraphs are good, which makes that fact that the paragraphs don't hang well together more jarring. He jumps around from describing what he's seen, to talking about the historical significance of the objects, to activities that your family did. Now, I don't expect a nine year old to pull it all together, but you might want to focus on developing strong paragraphs as separate pieces, without string paragraphs together.

 

we're 1/4-1/2 way thr the 1st level of MCT grammar. He's excited about it, which is good.

 

Glad that MCT is working for you. I hope you have Town level lined up.

 

I'm just flabbergasted when I see how much he *does* know & doesn't apply.

 

I really think that dictation would help, starting with short, easy dictations and gradually building up, one skill at a time. Dictation trains the mind to think about those mechanical things as you set the words down on paper. Eventually that thinking becomes automatic, and there are fewer mechanical problems in first drafts.

[8filltheheart]

Ok, here's another sample. The first is a pretty typical first draft for him:

 

On our way to houston there were lots of open prairies there was a truck that had 6 wheels on top!

 

At Battleship texes, we got to go to the very Bottem, we must have been under water! We all so got to go prety high!

 

At the top of the san jacinto monument, I presed the shape of texes, Grace did a horse, on a penny.

 

On the way home we stopped at the statue of Sam Houston, he's the world's 3rd tallest Giant statue of a man! then we went to the Gift shop. I got a sling shot Gun & Grace got some prety rocks.

 

Several drafts later, w/ some discussions about topic sentences & questions about details (still not a final copy):

 

It took us five and a half hours to get to Houston. On our way there, we listened to music and played games like “I Have an Animal” with Granny and Grand Dad. We saw lots of…

 

Battleship Texas was my favorite stop that we made in Houston. It’s the first ship I’ve ever been on and the first battleship I’ve ever seen. Getting to both see and touch and even move parts of the ship made it memorable.

 

The history of the battleship is impressive. Battleship Texas was the first ship with radar which it used to help planes land on the ship. She fout many battles during world war 1 and 2. The people who made her must have gone mad! As long as 2 foot-ball fields, you could watch 2 foot-ball games from your gun!

 

First we went down to the lower levels of the ship. There were three levels beneath the main deck that visitors could go to, and the levels beneath those were closed. There was a sleeping deck on the deck right under the main deck. When I stepped down into the sleeping deck, I saw lots and lots of beds hanging from the ceiling on chains. Every four chains hung five beds.

 

A little further down, we saw something like a geared pulley that hoists anchors, but this one had no anchor. It only had the rope that used to hold the ship’s anchor. The end of the rope was curled and frayed, where the anchor had been. We got to turn the handle to try to lift the rope, but even without the anchor, the rope was so thick and heavy, we couldn’t lift it at all. The sailors must have been really strong!

 

In the middle deck there were three rooms: the doctors office, the hospital room, and the dentists office. In the doctors office, there was one long bed for patients & 2 sinks. In the hospital room, there were more beds for sick sailors & a checkerboard to help them pass the time. The pieces to the checkerboard were wooden instead of plastic. In The dentists office, there was a great big light & lots of scary dental tools.

 

The Engine room was the lowest down you could go, we must have been under water, Glug! Glug! In the Engine room, there was a door, where you crank a handal to un-lock it! If you crank one way, the lock goes up, if you crank the other way the lock goes down. There was also a glassed out area that had machines, guns, & a broken cannon we could see.

 

Once we had come back up out of the dark belly of the ship, we began climbing upward. The top of the ship was closed to tourists because it was too high and too dangerous. We didn‘t get to go as high as we were allowed because Granny was too scared, but we did get to go high enough that the people down below looked as small as birds. I think we were at the gun director.

 

I really liked that there was so much to explor how parts of the ship work and move. There was the engine room. Even the doors were engines. To opne a door, you had to turn a handle that would turn a bunch of gears and unlock the door so you could go through. We got to actually turn the guns and lift them up and down. You load the biggest guns from two levels down from where they shoot.

 

The San Jacinto Monument was close to the Battleship Texas, so we went there next. The Monument was the tallest building I’ve ever been in. We got to see a museum at the bottom & a big view of Houston at the top. We missed seeing the Battle ground though.

The Monument is a tall, skinny white building with a star at the top. The base of the Monument is a large square museum while the top is only wide enough for an elevator & a set of stairs. When I walked up to the monument, I had to tilt my head so far back to see the top that it made me dizzy!

 

The San Jacinto Monument is a big building built in honer of the Texans who fought in the Battle of San Jacinto, fought when Texas rebelled against Mexico. First, the Texans lost when the Alamo fell. Then they lost again at the Battle of Goliad! Finally, Texas won her independence at the Battle of San Jacinto. The day after the war was over, Santa Anna’s men gave away his disguise by calling him “Your Exellency”.

 

I saw Sam Houston’s sword and pen and clothes. His clothes are completely blue. His pen was completely gold, and his sword was partly gold and partly silver.

 

I was really surprised that they would put his pen and clothes in the museum. It’s personal stuff that you don’t usually see. I liked seeing it, though, because it was so unusual. I think they included these things because Sam Houston is one of the most important men in Texas and because seeing Houston’s personal effects will help them understand how real he was. I think Sam Houston used his pen to sine the trety with Santa Anna.

 

As we went down the hall, we made owr way to Santa Anna’s weponry. Santa Anna had 3 3-4 foot curly swords, a 9-10 foot curly sword, 3 1 foot daggers, & a 4-5 foot musket with a blade at the end!!!! I wondered if that musket was the gun that shot S. H. in the ankle.

 

A big picture of Santa Anna took up most of the space. His face was broad, as if he were a good triker. He also had a sense of loss. He had square cheeks, brown skin, black hair, & his hat, a generals hat, curled up & down & over & down & up.

 

After we saw the museum, we rode to the top of the Monument. It took 37 seconds to get to the top of the Monument! The top of the Monument was one small empty room with only peny pressing machines & windows. When we looked out the widow we saw the Monument reflected in the reflecting pool! Grand dad let us press pennys! I pressed Texas & Grace pressed Sam Houston on a horse.

 

The San Jacinto battleground lays just outside the monument. From the top of the tower, we saw the reflecting pool, but we missed the forests and the marsh land where the battle was fought. The Texas Parks and Wildlife Department has preserved the natural landscape of the battleground because the prairie grasses and forest line played such an important role in the battle. Thanks to gheir work, it is easier for visitors to imagine Houston‘s 900 men screened by a grove of hardwood trees and then quietly crawling through the waist high grass to take Santa Anna and his sleeping men by surprise.

 

My favorite part was looking out a window at the reflecting pool that reflects the San Jacinto monument.

 

 

I didn't read any other responses to this. To be completely honest, I didn't even read beyond the first few paragraphs of his!

 

I am a little perplexed by what you want to see in his writing. What do you believe is appropriate given his age and abilities?

 

I ask b/c the first "new" example seems pretty typical of late 2nd/early 3rd grade level work. With a small amt of revision, it would have been acceptable for ending 3rd grade. However, his revised version is over the top in length for elementary level writing. It is too much information for a child that age to be expected to manage and manage it well.

 

Take this all with a grain of salt b/c I am not of the opinion that lots and lots of writing produces good writers. I think limited amts of focused practice is far more valuable.

 

I'm not sure how to intrepret everything you have shared b/c you stated that he doesn't like to write. But the first 2 examples you shared are realistic in length for his age level. His mechanics are lacking and demonstrate a weakness that should be focused on. His writing needs age level appropriate direction, but over all his ability to express himself is excellent.

 

If the revised version is your goal, I think you will find that the reason he doesn't like writing is b/c it is not appropriate skill-wise. I would suspect that if his assignments were focused, short, and guided that he would rather quickly produce examples that are excellent.

[Aubrey]

I didn't read any other responses to this. To be completely honest, I didn't even read beyond the first few paragraphs of his!

 

I am a little perplexed by what you want to see in his writing. What do you believe is appropriate given his age and abilities?

 

I ask b/c the first "new" example seems pretty typical of late 2nd/early 3rd grade level work. With a small amt of revision, it would have been acceptable for ending 3rd grade. However, his revised version is over the top in length for elementary level writing. It is too much information for a child that age to be expected to manage and manage it well.

 

Take this all with a grain of salt b/c I am not of the opinion that lots and lots of writing produces good writers. I think limited amts of focused practice is far more valuable.

 

I'm not sure how to intrepret everything you have shared b/c you stated that he doesn't like to write. But the first 2 examples you shared are realistic in length for his age level. His mechanics are lacking and demonstrate a weakness that should be focused on. His writing needs age level appropriate direction, but over all his ability to express himself is excellent.

 

If the revised version is your goal, I think you will find that the reason he doesn't like writing is b/c it is not appropriate skill-wise. I would suspect that if his assignments were focused, short, and guided that he would rather quickly produce examples that are excellent.

 

The revised version of the 2nd paper was not my goal. The 1st version was the 1st time he'd put enough content into a response to really be able to work on it, if that makes sense. So we talked about it, we talked about organization, big things like that.

 

On the 2nd draft of the Houston paper, he really got excited about writing. He *wanted* to keep working on it, adding detail, length, etc. This was *very* unusual for him, & he showed almost a natural ability to reorganize his thoughts logically. The mechanics still needed work, & we talked about those, but I didn't want to squash the enthusiasm.

 

Honestly, the 2nd draft far exceeds my expectations as far as content & length. The mechancis still make me uncomfortable, but for a kid that I had to twist into a pretzel to get more than a sentence to suddenly, out of nowhere do this & enjoy it...baffled me, so I tried to go w/ it.

[Aubrey]

I'm probably more unsure about the writing process than you are lol but since you've asked I'll share. :001_smile: DS9 has completed WWE1, WWE2, and is halfway through WWE3 (this is my 2nd year HSing him). It's quick, it's easy and I've seen huge strides in his writing it right the first time. I think copywork, and now dictation is making the mechanics more automatic. We've also taken several Bravewriter classes. DS's writing really shocked me w/ these classes so I happily shelled out the big bucks for them. They really motivated him to write. We did Kids Write Basic, then a Hand Holders class. We also did the Just So Stories class which my son and I LOVED LOVED. We then did a non-fiction writing class.

 

For the freewrites, DS would discuss what he wanted to write. He then set a timer and wrote the entire time. We put it away. The next day, he found the pearl in the freewrite and then freewrote to expand on that. We did this several times for each aspect of the story. When it was all done, we cut the sentences apart, he arranged them, I typed them back up and then gave him a red pen to do his edits. I then mopped up any mistakes. Some I went over with him, others not. I made a note of them though and when we came across it in copywork or dictation, I pointed it out to him.

 

He also writes in our Chemistry curriculum this year - basically writing narrations, definitions, summaries.

 

This year we did MCT Island Level and will be moving onto Town level.

 

Next year, we will focus more on writing in history.

 

What I've gathered from the Bravewriter philosophy is get them writing often to practice getting their thoughts on paper. Keep those in a folder. Then every so often, let DC pick one to expand, contract, edit, and polish. Reinforcement is done during dictations.

 

Capt_Uhura

 

So have you liked WWE? How does it compare to FLL? MCT?

[Capt_Uhura]

That's wonderful Aubrey! That's how I felt when my DS took the Bravewriter classes. He actually BEGGED to take another class. He actually asked to keep writing once the timer went off.