Overthinking Math...

[silver]

I've got questions about math.

 

First, some background. I went to a Montessori elementary school. I love the way that Montessori presents mathematics. I attribute my understanding of math to my elementary school. To me, math was not memorization, it was understanding. Once I got to algebra and beyond, if I could understand how a formula was derived, it became easy. If I had to just memorize a formula and "plug and chug" my way through it, I would struggle.

 

What I envision math to be for my children is hands on manipulatives in the early years. Lots of Montessori materials to make things concrete: the snake game for regrouping, base ten blocks and numeral cards for the decimal system. I plan on using Cuisenaire rods instead of Montessori beads to save some money. Then things like the stamp game, an abacus, and checkerboard to lead toward abstraction. Lots of living math books with activities that go along with them. I will introduce concepts and guide my kids, but I want it to be very exploratory and conceptual. I don't like the huge emphasis on memorization and rules in mathematics.

 

So my problem is that there isn't a "curriculum" for this. There's Shiller Math, which is similar to a "Montessori Curriculum", but is missing enough key elements that I wouldn't follow it closely enough to warrant the price tag.

 

Part of me thinks that I could just get away with some workbooks and do the teaching myself. I think I could teach without a textbook, and workbooks would make it so that I don't have to make up my own problems, which would be nice.

 

And then part of me thinks that I ought to just get a conceptual math curriculum like Singapore.

 

I think what I want is a scope/sequence (so that I don't forget to teach something like measurement or geometric shapes), problems to work for each concept, and fun activities/games. I also don't want it to be expensive in case I wind up not following it very closely.

 

So my questions are: (1) is there anything that is similar to what I want? (2) Would buying just the Singapore HIG meet this goal? (3) What are good books for things to do with Cuisenaire rods to either lead children to explore or to make something concrete? (4) Is Miquon a stand alone math program, or more of a supplement? How far does it take a student? (5) Am I absolutely insane and making things way harder for myself with this "vision" of how I want to teach math? :laugh:

[siloam]

I've got questions about math.

 

First, some background. I went to a Montessori elementary school. I love the way that Montessori presents mathematics. I attribute my understanding of math to my elementary school. To me, math was not memorization, it was understanding. Once I got to algebra and beyond, if I could understand how a formula was derived, it became easy. If I had to just memorize a formula and "plug and chug" my way through it, I would struggle.

 

What I envision math to be for my children is hands on manipulatives in the early years. Lots of Montessori materials to make things concrete: the snake game for regrouping, base ten blocks and numeral cards for the decimal system. I plan on using Cuisenaire rods instead of Montessori beads to save some money. Then things like the stamp game, an abacus, and checkerboard to lead toward abstraction. Lots of living math books with activities that go along with them. I will introduce concepts and guide my kids, but I want it to be very exploratory and conceptual. I don't like the huge emphasis on memorization and rules in mathematics.

 

So my problem is that there isn't a "curriculum" for this. There's Shiller Math, which is similar to a "Montessori Curriculum", but is missing enough key elements that I wouldn't follow it closely enough to warrant the price tag.

 

Part of me thinks that I could just get away with some workbooks and do the teaching myself. I think I could teach without a textbook, and workbooks would make it so that I don't have to make up my own problems, which would be nice.

 

And then part of me thinks that I ought to just get a conceptual math curriculum like Singapore.

 

I think what I want is a scope/sequence (so that I don't forget to teach something like measurement or geometric shapes), problems to work for each concept, and fun activities/games. I also don't want it to be expensive in case I wind up not following it very closely.

 

So my questions are: (1) is there anything that is similar to what I want? (2) Would buying just the Singapore HIG meet this goal? (3) What are good books for things to do with Cuisenaire rods to either lead children to explore or to make something concrete? (4) Is Miquon a stand alone math program, or more of a supplement? How far does it take a student? (5) Am I absolutely insane and making things way harder for myself with this "vision" of how I want to teach math? :laugh:

Have you checked out Right Start? The creator has a Montessori background, and it is base 10 like Singapore. Though I don't love the base 10 picture cards, but I already owned a base 10 set, so I just use that instead. :D Though it is also not cheap, but most of that is for the manipulatives. If you already have them they you wouldn't have to buy those parts.

 

Singapore HIG's do add a hands on element, but I don't think to the degree you are looking for. To be honest I own them but haven't needed the hands on instruction after using RS. I have looked at the schedule Singapore includes and it doesn't seem to have half the hands on work or games that Right Start does. Singapore has a visual focus. They do demonstrate concepts, they just do it with pictures.

 

 

Cuisenaire rods didn't work well here. The color to number thing was not intuitive, and my kids didn't like them. The abacus on the other hand was a hit.

 

Miquon is a stand alone program. The only reason why it didn't work here is my kids like direct instruction and didn't care for the discovery model as applied in Miquon (RS has some of this but it is teacher lead and my kids were fine with that), combined with not loving the rods, it just wasn't a good fit. It only goes through 3rd grade.

 

Yes you are making life harder for yourself, but I do that too. If you know what you want go for it! Though I generally find the closest fit and then make it do what I want. Starting from scratch can be a real time sink.

 

Heather

[skueppers]

I think Miquon would be a good fit for you. It's a complete curriculum through third grade, and you can easily supplement it with your favorite Montessori activities. It's intended to be liberating for students and teachers, and you're encouraged to add your own ideas to it.

[Corraleno]

I agree that Miquon sounds like the closest fit to what you're looking for. I worked in a Montessori classroom for a couple of years, and my kids were in Montessori for 3 years each. Neither of them did well with the Montessori method for math, though, so Miquon wasn't a good fit for us. But it sounds like it would work well for you. A number of people here seem to combine it with MEP, which is quite fun and "puzzley" so you might look into that as well.

 

Jackie

[Spy Car]

So my problem is that there isn't a "curriculum" for this.

 

Yes there is. As other posters have noted, it's called Miquon. It is precisely what you describe.

 

Right Start, while somewhat different and more teacher-led, would also fall within the general idea. But Miquon is what you describe to a T.

 

And then part of me thinks that I ought to just get a conceptual math curriculum like Singapore.

 

Someone called Miquon and Singapore like "Peas and Carrots" in a thread the other day, I will say it is hard to imagine a better combination of math programs. They really compliment each other beautifully.

 

Make it easy on yourself.

 

Bill

[jec3113]

I am sold on Saxon. In the early (K-3) there are lots of manipulatives. Even in the upper (we are in 6/5) there are some paper manipulatives in the workbook to cut out and use, although I usually find a "real" manipulative instead of the paper.

 

Saxon teaches concepts not just rote memorization. The thing that really clinched it for me is that we are only 1/2 way through 6/5 yet both kids were recently tested and tested well into 7th grade level. This could only be possible due to an understanding of the concepts. Being able to have an understanding of something you really haven't been taught yet. Many people do not like the spiral concept. But, IMO it works.

 

I am not familiar with the other things that have been mentioned. I can only speak to what is working well for us.

 

Jen

[silver]

If I do Miquon, would I be able to skip getting any separate books for Cuisenaire rod activities?

 

Also, what does one do after Miquon?

[Guest Cheryl in SoCal]

I haven't used Miquon or Singapore so I can't comment on them but have used Saxon and think it's probably the polar opposite of what you are looking for.

[skueppers]

If I do Miquon, would I be able to skip getting any separate books for Cuisenaire rod activities?

 

Also, what does one do after Miquon?

 

The Miquon workbooks and teacher manuals are all you need to go with the Cuisenaire rods. You won't need any other Cuisenaire rod activity books.

 

Lots of people switch to Singapore after Miquon, but I have no personal experience to add since my oldest is still young. We're doing MEP together with Miquon, so we may just continue with that.

[christine in al]

cuisinaire rods.

 

(down spy car :glare:)

 

My kid's Motesorri teacher used Miquion with them. I use Right Start and suppliment with Galore Park Junior Maths and Evan Moor word problems.

 

If I could do Singapore , I'd do Singapore and Miquion. I like the Peas and carrots metaphor. But I can't get Singapore. If it doesn't work for you,,, you can look at Right Start.

buy the manuals used and use base 10 blocks, abacus and the card games. skip the balance and the other matipulatives if you need to save money.

~c hristine in al

[Greta]

(1) is there anything that is similar to what I want?

 

RightStart! Montessori and Asian teaching methods, very conceptual, very easy to teach.

 

(3) What are good books for things to do with Cuisenaire rods to either lead children to explore or to make something concrete?

 

Honestly, I would encourage you to take a look at the abacus that RightStart uses. I personally think it is a much better tool than Cuisenaire rods. I had planned on Miquon, too, until I saw the AL Abacus and read a little about how it's used as a teaching tool. I thought it sounded far better, and now having used it for 5 years, I stand firm in that conviction. It helped *me* with mental math, and it has given my daughter a fantastic sense of place value and a lot of confidence with math.

 

(5) Am I absolutely insane and making things way harder for myself with this "vision" of how I want to teach math? :laugh:

:lol: Stand true to your vision! It can be done! And your children will thank you for it.

[Spy Car]

If I do Miquon, would I be able to skip getting any separate books for Cuisenaire rod activities?

 

Also, what does one do after Miquon?

 

I had no need for a separate book Cuisenaire rod activities. The rods are the fundamental manipulative in Miquon, and there are an extensive number of suggestions on how to use them, including introducing them to the children, which will be directly in line with your thinking. You are going to love this!

 

Do, without fail, get the 3 Teachers books. They are extremely valuable on many, many levels. When you start thinking you don't need to read it anymore because you get how to do "Miquon" they know you do too, so they move in to deeper waters, and make sure you are teaching the axioms (the Laws of Mathematics) in interesting and easily comprehensible ways.

 

What I did was after a nice start with Miquon: fun, easy-going, thriving, add Singapore. I would by-pass Earlybird. We did it partially, in retrospect, I would have started in 1A. I would get the HIGs (and use the Standards Edition because of their improved versions) and then modify suggestions to the rods and/or do Miquon-ish thing of your own. No need to the "slavish" to the HIGs, but they are good to have. If the child is math adept, which the Miquon expose will almost guarantee, I would (and do) also use the IP (Intensive Practice) books at the same level from the US Edition. And eventually the CWP (word problem) books.

 

If that's not enough, and if your child (like mine) gets turned-on to math via exposure to Miquon at a young age (because that is what I whole-heartedly believe made the difference with my son) you will be further enriched if you can add MEP for more stimulating/cognitively interesting math, and Right Start Games so you can play while firming up some of those pesky math facts.

 

There are inevitably people order this program, take one look and say: I don't get it.

 

Then there are people, who may have a moment of shock looking at the opening pages of Orange Book (until they realize they are just doing one-to-one correspondence, and the Miquon author opted for strange alien shapes rather than bunnies) AND once past that, invest themselves in the program. Those people. People like you who have dreamed to me able to teach math like this, will all the support you need in hand. Those people. Me. I am so grateful that I really get emotional about what it has done, and helped me do, for my son.

 

There is no doubt in my mind that from what you wrote that this is the program for you.

 

Bill

[Spy Car]

cuisinaire rods.

 

(down spy car :glare:)

 

My kid's Motesorri teacher used Miquion with them. I use Right Start and suppliment with Galore Park Junior Maths and Evan Moor word problems.

 

If I could do Singapore , I'd do Singapore and Miquion. I like the Peas and carrots metaphor. But I can't get Singapore. If it doesn't work for you,,, you can look at Right Start.

buy the manuals used and use base 10 blocks, abacus and the card games. skip the balance and the other matipulatives if you need to save money.

~c hristine in al

 

I use the base-10 "flats" and would have loved 10 base-10 cubes. But I have my reasons for preferring C Rods for 10s and Units.

 

Bill

[skueppers]

RightStart! Montessori and Asian teaching methods, very conceptual, very easy to teach.

 

I don't know that much about RightStart, but isn't it very "open and go"? As in, telling the teacher exactly what to do and in what order?

 

I wouldn't really have thought that was what the original poster was looking for, since I thought one of the hallmarks of the Montessori method was letting the kid have a lot of control over what they wanted to do.

 

In that respect, Miquon would be a better fit because the student can follow their own path through the curriculum -- they can pursue each area as long as it interests them.

 

But of course, this is coming from someone who is not that familiar with either RightStart or Montessori, so I could be totally off base!

[Annabel Lee]

My oldest just graduated 8th grade from a Montessori charter school. They've always used the usual Montessori math with beads, stamps, checkerboards, etc., until a couple years ago. They added in RightStart as a main component. As others have stated, the author has a Montessori background.

 

To toss another idea into the mix, MEP is free online and it's completely conceptual based math. It could be done alongside RS, Singapore, Miquon or anything really.

[Spy Car]

Once one adds Singapore, one knocks a bit of Montessori-ishness out of a math program, in any case. And RS (from what I see as only a "partial user" at least comes close).

 

But there is something in Miquon that is different than any other program I've seen, is that it really sets up an environment for a child to "discover" mathematical principles on their own. Not really on their own, as it's a set-up, but it is not didactic instruction, rather the learning come experientially that is different that the feel we've had from the RS materials we have (and love).

 

But, yes, hearing what I'm hearing Miquon sounds like the "dream come true" program. And RS a very reasonable option to consider.

 

Bill

[Greta]

I don't know that much about RightStart, but isn't it very "open and go"? As in, telling the teacher exactly what to do and in what order?

 

I wouldn't really have thought that was what the original poster was looking for, since I thought one of the hallmarks of the Montessori method was letting the kid have a lot of control over what they wanted to do.

 

In that respect, Miquon would be a better fit because the student can follow their own path through the curriculum -- they can pursue each area as long as it interests them.

 

But of course, this is coming from someone who is not that familiar with either RightStart or Montessori, so I could be totally off base!

 

Oh, you're probably right! I don't know enough about Montessori to be sure. I just know that the author of RightStart has a Montessori background, and that my friend who has a Montessori classroom set up in her home (and is a certified Montessori instructor) uses materials that look a whole lot like RightStart. You're absolutely right, though, that RightStart is semi-scripted, and there's a definite order one follows to the curriculum. I will say, though, that the lessons are often designed in a way that they guide the child toward discovery -- not at all a "stuff facts into their heads" kind of deal. :D So *I* thought it would work well for the OP, but maybe I don't know enough about Montessori to be sure and should just gracefully bow out of the conversation :blush:

[siloam]

I don't know that much about RightStart, but isn't it very "open and go"? As in, telling the teacher exactly what to do and in what order?

 

I wouldn't really have thought that was what the original poster was looking for, since I thought one of the hallmarks of the Montessori method was letting the kid have a lot of control over what they wanted to do.

 

In that respect, Miquon would be a better fit because the student can follow their own path through the curriculum -- they can pursue each area as long as it interests them.

 

But of course, this is coming from someone who is not that familiar with either RightStart or Montessori, so I could be totally off base!

 

Actually when the rubber meets the road Miquon wasn't that much less work for me. My kids didn't get the worksheets through so I had to figure out and teach each one. My oldest was starting level 3 before I switched, so this was not a short trial.

 

But I could see where she might not be the best example. She is an LA kids who is math challenged. :D My 2nd dd is more math oriented, and didn't fair any better, but she was just starting the red book when we stopped (if I remember right), so with time she might have got it on her own.

 

Heather

[jvenice]

What about MUS and Singapore?

[Spy Car]

Oh, you're probably right! I don't know enough about Montessori to be sure. I just know that the author of RightStart has a Montessori background, and that my friend who has a Montessori classroom set up in her home (and is a certified Montessori instructor) uses materials that look a whole lot like RightStart. You're absolutely right, though, that RightStart is semi-scripted, and there's a definite order one follows to the curriculum. I will say, though, that the lessons are often designed in a way that they guide the child toward discovery -- not at all a "stuff facts into their heads" kind of deal. :D So *I* thought it would work well for the OP, but maybe I don't know enough about Montessori to be sure and should just gracefully bow out of the conversation :blush:

 

Don't bow out (much less be embarrassed). I think you have it about right. Miquon matches the requirements perfectly, but if it didn't exist RS would be about as good an alternative as one would have, especially if the parent is going to add Singapore to Miquon.

 

I like this last combination for myself (very much), but for a parent looking for an integrated program combining a certain amount of Montessori influence in a tighter package, RS would be a reasonable option. And a very good program. Not everyone takes to Miquon, the OP, I believe is one who will absolutely love it.

 

Bill

[Greta]

Don't bow out (much less be embarrassed). I think you have it about right. Miquon matches the requirements perfectly, but if it didn't exist RS would be about as good an alternative as one would have, especially if the parent is going to add Singapore to Miquon.

 

I like this last combination for myself (very much), but for a parent looking for an integrated program combining a certain amount of Montessori influence in a tighter package, RS would be a reasonable option. And a very good program. Not everyone takes to Miquon, the OP, I believe is one who will absolutely love it.

 

Bill

 

Thanks Bill. :) I hope the OP will find success with Miquon. What I know of it, which isn't a lot, it strikes me as a really good program. (Like I said, it was the awesome abacus that sealed the deal for me. :D )

 

I'm straying a bit, but . . . We did a lesson from Math On The Level today about calculating the area of a triangle. I loved the way the lesson was designed to guide the child to discover how and why the area of a triangle is 1/2bh rather than just handing them the formula and having them plug in various numbers to practice it. That is so much better than the way I was taught math that I have to do a little happy dance!

[Crimson Wife]

I don't know that much about RightStart, but isn't it very "open and go"? As in, telling the teacher exactly what to do and in what order?

 

There's also the unscripted Activities for the AL Abacus that would be a great resource for the OP even if she decides to use Miquon or something else for her main curriculum.

[skueppers]

Actually when the rubber meets the road Miquon wasn't that much less work for me. My kids didn't get the worksheets through so I had to figure out and teach each one. My oldest was starting level 3 before I switched, so this was not a short trial.

 

Oh, I wasn't trying to suggest that Miquon would be less work for the teacher than RightStart. But I didn't get the sense the original poster was concerned about how much work a curriculum might be. I thought RightStart might not be a good fit for her because it sounded like she wanted more of a DIY approach.

 

I could, of course, be reading her wrong. :)

[skueppers]

Oh, you're probably right! I don't know enough about Montessori to be sure. I just know that the author of RightStart has a Montessori background, and that my friend who has a Montessori classroom set up in her home (and is a certified Montessori instructor) uses materials that look a whole lot like RightStart. You're absolutely right, though, that RightStart is semi-scripted, and there's a definite order one follows to the curriculum. I will say, though, that the lessons are often designed in a way that they guide the child toward discovery -- not at all a "stuff facts into their heads" kind of deal. :D So *I* thought it would work well for the OP, but maybe I don't know enough about Montessori to be sure and should just gracefully bow out of the conversation :blush:

 

Like I said, I don't know all that much about either RightStart OR Montessori, so perhaps I'm out to lunch on the whole thing.

 

And I definitely wasn't criticizing the RightStart curriculum. I know it's not for me, but that's because I want the pleasure of doing my own thing, and I think I'd find RightStart stifling. I'm sure RightStart is a great math curriculum, it's just not my style.

[silver]

base ten rather than cuisinaire rods.

I plan on using both, as Montessori uses a version of both. There are some things she does with the bead stairs (which are similar to cuisinaire rods) that I think are too good to not do. And base ten blocks really make place value concrete, so I will include those (in place of the very expensive Montessori golden beads).

 

But, yes, hearing what I'm hearing Miquon sounds like the "dream come true" program. And RS a very reasonable option to consider.

You have me sold on Miquon! I'm now just trying to figure out what to use once we're done with that.

 

RightStart! Montessori and Asian teaching methods, very conceptual, very easy to teach.

I'll have to look into RightStart since so many people are suggesting it. Is it something that I would be able to go to after Miquon is done? Or is it better to start with level A?

 

There's also the unscripted Activities for the AL Abacus that would be a great resource for the OP even if she decides to use Miquon or something else for her main curriculum.

I wasn't able to find this with a quick look at the RigthStart site. Is it the same as "Transition Lessons"?

 

So the consensus for after Miquon seems to be either Singapore or RightStart...

 

With Singapore, how important would it be to follow the book? Would I lose out on the program if I teach some aspects with different methods than they do? What are the key components (as I notice there are lots of parts available)?

 

Is anyone here familiar with Shiller Math? I notice that one can buy just the texts from Rainbow Resource and I'm wondering about maybe doing that and using them to supplement. That way would be cheap enough to not feel bad about not following exactly.

[Greta]

I'll have to look into RightStart since so many people are suggesting it. Is it something that I would be able to go to after Miquon is done? Or is it better to start with level A?

 

I can't compare it to Miquon, but I wouldn't think you would need both. And I personally think that the strength of RightStart is in the first few levels, A and B. The way it teaches numbers, counting, and place value is amazing, and that's of course mostly done in A and B. It's a program that I would not hesitate to recommend for the primary years (K - 2). But switching to it later . . . depends on the child and the situation.

 

 

I wasn't able to find this with a quick look at the RigthStart site. Is it the same as "Transition Lessons"?

 

No, not the same. Here you go:

 

http://activitiesforlearning.com/activitiesforalabacus.aspx

[Greta]

Like I said, I don't know all that much about either RightStart OR Montessori, so perhaps I'm out to lunch on the whole thing.

 

And I definitely wasn't criticizing the RightStart curriculum. I know it's not for me, but that's because I want the pleasure of doing my own thing, and I think I'd find RightStart stifling. I'm sure RightStart is a great math curriculum, it's just not my style.

 

Oh, I didn't take it as a criticism! And it's not like I'm employed by the company or anything, so have no reason to take it personally. :001_smile: I just took it as you saying it might not be the best fit for this particular family, and you might be absolutely right!

 

I could see how it might be stifling for someone who is really confident teaching math and has their own idea of what they want to do. That just wasn't me, so it worked out perfectly for us. I needed the guidance that it provided.

[Spy Car]

Silver, I'd advise you to start with Miquon and add Singapore 1A/1B when the time is right. Or to choose Right Start from the beginning. Both valid choices. But (from my perception) rather different in style. It's good there is a choice, as parents and children are different in what suits their taste.

 

We still use Right Start elements. The Abacus Activities book Crimson Mom mentioned was the precursor program to RS, and has many good ideas. We have the abacus (and use it) but my son is more at home with the rods. The RS games are a big component of the math program, and provide a fun means of cementing the math facts. And the place value cards and base-10 cards (as well as the emphasis on giving a child a comprehension of place value early, comes from RS. So we do a hybrid (of sorts).

 

Bill

[Spy Car]

I can't compare it to Miquon, but I wouldn't think you would need both. And I personally think that the strength of RightStart is in the first few levels, A and B. The way it teaches numbers, counting, and place value is amazing, and that's of course mostly done in A and B. It's a program that I would not hesitate to recommend for the primary years (K - 2). But switching to it later . . . depends on the child and the situation.

 

 

I'm thinking the same way. Do one, or the other. RS would would be more orderly and structured but would be missing in some of the "I did it myself" discovery aspect that I think of as Montessori-like. With my son's nature giving him the reins was important. He dialed into Miquon learning/play with gusto. I certainly "created" situations, but there didn't need to be much said as to direction. And the rods, a natural play thing were used with a playful purpose, where (for him) the abacus was not as good a fit. And there are children where it is the other way around. So?

 

Billi

[siloam]

Oh, I wasn't trying to suggest that Miquon would be less work for the teacher than RightStart. But I didn't get the sense the original poster was concerned about how much work a curriculum might be. I thought RightStart might not be a good fit for her because it sounded like she wanted more of a DIY approach.

 

I could, of course, be reading her wrong. :)

Good point.

 

The scripting on RS I know drives some people nuts, but really I just skim it and put it into my own words. I am mathy and it isn't difficult for me to do. I know other people who live by the script. Really the hardest thing for me at first, and I did not love RS at first, was dealing with all the stuff. My kids are hands on learners, so I knew I needed it, but it was just so messy. :001_huh: Once I found places for everything it wasn't a big deal anymore, it just took some getting used to.

 

Ok pure info. for the OP on Singapore and Right Start:

 

Right Start is mostly mastery based. Level A takes part of level B and covers them more in depth for younger kids. If you do level A you can skip those lessons in level B. Level B covers up to 9 digit addition then introduces subtraction and multiplication. Level C covers subtraction and multiplication and introduces fractions, measurements and division. Level D covers measurements, fractions and some division concepts. Level E works on percents, long division, and decimals so far.

 

The purpose of transitions is to allow a student who hasn't done levels A or B to jump into a higher level, and still know how to use the Abacus. After doing transitions you can move the child into any of the upper levels.

 

In levels A and B the game instructions are listed in the books, you don't need the game book, though you can buy it in the "deluxe" package. Starting in level C and up they will have some game instructions but much of the time they refer to the game book. Thus the game book is part of the upgrade package from B to C. Also note they don't offer a discount in the package deals so you could just buy the game book early on and then just the other items separately when you need level C.

 

In general Right Start does have a specific flow. Review any concepts needed for the new concept, introduce the new concept, then cover that new concept with money, with time and with measurements. It took a while for me to see the pattern, but there really is one. In level B you really feel like they are just jumping from topic to topic, but in hind sight they are still following this pattern. The one exception to that is the geometry work. The author has a soft spot for geometry, so in level C when you are covering measurements the child uses a T square and angles to first draw shapes then they begin to work with perimeter and area of the objects they drew.

 

With Singapore you need the Text book and the Student Workbook at the least. I HIGHLY recommend the HIG, and for anyone just starting out I recommend using the Standards edition, simply because the author had several years to learn from the first set of HIG's and the news ones are better. The extra practice books are exactly what the name implies, more practice at the same level as the workbooks. The Intensive Practice takes the concepts learned one step farther, and in parts can be quite challenging. The Word problem texts just recently changed, and I own all the old ones, so I can't speak to them. The last three are all optional, supplemental material.

 

Signapore's sequence is slightly different in it will cover single digit addition and subtraction and multiplication as addition, then two digit addition, subtraction, and addition. Then three digit addition, subtraction, multiplication and introduce division, ect...

 

Heather

[silver]

So if the options are Miquon, RightStart, and Singapore I'd probably be best off with Miquon by itself and then going into Singapore together with Miquon 1A/1B once each child is ready?

 

So with Singapore, what are the key components? I've noticed that there is a text, a HIG, a workbook, intensive practice, challenging word problems, extra practice, and tests. How useful are the HIGs? What level would you start the challenging word problems? Do you really need a workbook along with the text? Or are there enough problems in the text?

[Spy Car]

So if the options are Miquon, RightStart, and Singapore I'd probably be best off with Miquon by itself and then going into Singapore together with Miquon 1A/1B once each child is ready?

 

So with Singapore, what are the key components? I've noticed that there is a text, a HIG, a workbook, intensive practice, challenging word problems, extra practice, and tests. How useful are the HIGs? What level would you start the challenging word problems? Do you really need a workbook along with the text? Or are there enough problems in the text?

 

Yes to the first question. Miquon exposure will give the child a chance to playfully "discover" (in concrete terms) the same sort of whole and parts method you will get with number bonds in Singapore. Which is just to say, if you take a "brown rod" (normal value 8) and lay it horizontally, how many other ways can you stack combinations of different rods to make the same value? This is "making trains" in Cuisenaire Rod speak (why I don't know as you are making "stacks" as far as I'm concerned, but....).

 

When the child is ready, you could then add Earlybird (which I found largely disappointing) or go to 1A.

 

For 1A. I would certainly get the Standards Edition Textbooks, Workbooks, and HIGs. The SE HIGs are a complete revision aimed at helping home educators. As I said previously, you can "adapt" the activities suggestions to C Rods, or ignore them entirely if you are covering the same idea in Miquon (or RS games) but they are still good to have as teacher education. The textbook and workbook ought to be treated differently (at least I think so). The textbook as a sort of hybrid story time/gentle instruction time, maybe snuggled on a couch? While you will probably want to be involved in the workbooks (especially in 1A) but these would move gently towards more independent work that tests the child's understanding of the textbook lesson-time and gives them practice.

 

The short answer, you do need the Textbook and the Workbook.

 

The Intensive Practice books need to be ordered from the US Edition Series (as there are no SE versions). These amp of the level of mental challenge quite a bit. The workbooks are rather pro forma, they are practice and not especially challenging. The IP books require more thought, A child raised on Miquon will very likely want/need that cognitive challenge to make math fun. I consider these "essential" to our program, as the challenge without them would be insufficient for my son.

 

The Extra Practice books are designed for children who need more procedural application at the same level as the Workbooks. We have not used these.

 

The CWPs (actually there is a new series, we have the old ones) are pretty challenging. Many people did them a year behind. So far I've mostly done them orally, often making up my own variation while we are in transit. The word problems are a "gem" of the Singapore program, but no need to rush this IMO. The early wok lays a foundation that will make these easier, no need to jump the learning development (again IMO).

 

The RS games are a great addition to this mix. You can "play" and still do math and they are very effective in cementing "math facts" without the need to resort to drill. Fun and effective.

 

HTHs

 

Bill

Edited May 21, 2010 by Spy Car

[skueppers]

So if the options are Miquon, RightStart, and Singapore I'd probably be best off with Miquon by itself and then going into Singapore together with Miquon 1A/1B once each child is ready?

 

My personal recommendation is to get the Miquon teachers' books and the first two student books. Start with that, and see where it takes you. You might decide to continue with Miquon through all six student books without using another program, to supplement with another program, or to switch entirely, depending on how things are going.

 

Many people switch to Singapore only when they are entirely finished with Miquon.

[nansk]

So my problem is that there isn't a "curriculum" for this. ...

 

I think what I want is a scope/sequence...

 

Hi,

 

There are Montessori Math albums available online that guide you in how to present them. Here are some links that I found useful.

 

Albums, Printables & How-tos:

http://www.freemontessori.org/wp-content/uploads/albums/Math_1_Album.pdf

 

http://faculty.fullerton.edu/syen/mts/_link.htm

 

http://www.wikisori.org

 

Scope & Sequence: http://www.montessori.org/sitefiles/math.pdf

 

Montessori homeschooling group: http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/playschool6

 

HTH

~ Nandini

[TracyP]

I'm thinking the same way. Do one, or the other. RS would would be more orderly and structured but would be missing in some of the "I did it myself" discovery aspect that I think of as Montessori-like. With my son's nature giving him the reins was important. He dialed into Miquon learning/play with gusto. I certainly "created" situations, but there didn't need to be much said as to direction. And the rods, a natural play thing were used with a playful purpose, where (for him) the abacus was not as good a fit. And there are children where it is the other way around. So?

 

Billi

 

Could you tell me more about Miquon? I will *probably* be trying this with my 4 yo for K next year. My question is with my daughter (6 1/2). She hates to be taught and becomes bored easily with workbooks. She likes games so I have thought about RS but it seems too scripted. She loves manipulatives but gets frustrated when I try to tell her what to do with them (MUS was a bust). Do you think Miquon would work for her? Do I start at the beginning?

[silver]

Hi,

 

There are Montessori Math albums available online that guide you in how to present them. Here are some links that I found useful.

 

Thanks! I actually have some albums so it's not that I'm concerned with my ability to present the Montessori materials. I'm more concerned with (1) having to come up with my own problems, especially word problems that aren't boring and (2) missing something, such as telling time (as most albums I've seen don't have anything on that).

 

I love the idea of completely putting together my own curriculum, but I need more hand holding/guidance! Plus, my husband is much more of a traditional curriculum kind of guy (I'm working getting him to see the light). He'll let me do what I think is best (since I'm the one at home doing the teaching and I'm the one doing the research), but he'll be a lot more comfortable if I have something that makes it more formal.

[silver]

Okay, I just finished reading this thread about Math Mammoth. Now I'm not sure about Singapore vs Math Mammoth. Does MM go well with Miquon? Is it as good of a program as Singapore? It seems like it might work better to go with a Montessori approach, as I could do the topical worktexts and put them in the order they would be presented in a Montessori school.

 

I love looking at curriculum, but all these choices sure make it complicated!

[nansk]

Sorry, I saw your two posts only today.

 

Okay, I just finished reading this thread about Math Mammoth. Now I'm not sure about Singapore vs Math Mammoth. Is it as good of a program as Singapore?

 

Yes it is, although I have read that some people find the practice (particularly word problems) not enough in MM. You may supplement with the Singapore IP and CWP books if needed.

 

The thing I (and dh) like about MM is that it is an all-in-one text. I know I (and dh) would have disliked having to juggle the HIG, the textbook and the workbook.

 

It seems like it might work better to go with a Montessori approach, as I could do the topical worktexts and put them in the order they would be presented in a Montessori school.

 

I suppose it may be used this way. We use Montessori math and MM independently of each other. MM is mainly used as reinforcement & extra practice.

If worksheets is what you need for Montessori, there are printables in the Files section of the mm_math yahoogroup.

 

HTH

~ Nandini

Edited May 25, 2010 by nansk
corrected the markup for the quoted post

[Spy Car]

Could you tell me more about Miquon? I will *probably* be trying this with my 4 yo for K next year. My question is with my daughter (6 1/2). She hates to be taught and becomes bored easily with workbooks. She likes games so I have thought about RS but it seems too scripted. She loves manipulatives but gets frustrated when I try to tell her what to do with them (MUS was a bust). Do you think Miquon would work for her? Do I start at the beginning?

 

There is a very different feel between MUS and Miquon despite the fact both are manipulative based. There is less "apparent" teaching in Miquon. I will, at times, demonstrate things directly, but in the main the burden of problem-solving is on the child. They do the thinking, we set up the environment for them to make discoveries.

 

A child who doesn't like to be "taught" ought to do well with the Miquon approach, because there doesn't have to be much yacking. It is not an overly pedantic program. I think my son is much the same type, and prefers when he's the one wearing the "thinking cap" rather than being talked at. So Miquon is empowering for these kinds of kids (especially so, because they have the means to find solutions using the C Rods and their intelligence.

 

The program was designed for 6 year olds. I like it for 4 year olds, but the program is highly flexible and you could do (or skip) what seems valuable (or not).

 

I would still want to see plenty of "trains" (number values built in different combinations) because these build re-grouping skills and number bond/fact families in a "concrete" way.

 

So the short answer is, it is not too late to start Miquon for the older, and not too early (IMO) for the younger.

 

Bill

[TracyP]

Thanks Bill!

 

Now, how to convince dh that we need another math program.:lol: