Level of rigor and asynchronous development

[Gratia271]

How have you successfully addressed your dc's asynchronous nature? How do you determine the number of hours/day and level of rigor for dc working at levels significantly higher than their chronological age? I am really struggling with how to design our studies for next year. What should their education look like... in terms of content, time frames, scheduling? How do you tailor your studies to address their ability level while taking into account their maturity level?

[Embassy]

I don't think there is any one right way to do it. My two boys would probably test as gifted, but they are as different as night and day. One child is capable of handling long periods of focused study and loves to go in depth. The other child has a small attention span and can spend a long day in school, but the day needs to be full of hands on or visual activities.

 

I find myself screening content quite often so they can still be challenged at their maturity level.

[nmoira]

I'm don't know your child(ren)'s age, but here are some random thoughts:

 

I don't schedule more time that I would for a typical child. Just because a young child can work at a higher level doesn't mean they should be forced to adopt the schedule of an older student. I do no more than 3 hours per day with my 8yo, including a read aloud for history.

 

As for rigour, I meet her where she is in each subject and watch for signs of stress. And I listen. I know we talk a lot in this forum about challenging gifted kids, but sometimes they just want to blow through an almost literal ton of somewhat simpler materials to provide a background or a framework; not everything need be studied in minute detail... but of course some things do, and your child will probably let you know what these are. ;)

 

There also a question of inputs vs outputs, not only in terms of physical output with respect to handwriting (we still do some work orally when appropriate), but also possessing the maturity to handle research papers or even outlining with younger children. I work to make sure the inputs are ability appropriate, and the outputs are better matched to age and maturity level. Sometimes there's a wide disparity, and sometimes not, depending on the subject. The biggest gap is in English literature: we read and discuss (child led, for the most part) informally, but I have no requirements for outputs because I think DD the Elder just too young. I don't want to spoil the free reading years with formal academic demands.

Edited May 13, 2010 by nmoira
typo

[Gratia271]

I don't think there is any one right way to do it. My two boys would probably test as gifted, but they are as different as night and day. One child is capable of handling long periods of focused study and loves to go in depth. The other child has a small attention span and can spend a long day in school, but the day needs to be full of hands on or visual activities. I find myself screening content quite often so they can still be challenged at their maturity level.

 

So, then, how long do you think is appropriate for children who are capable of long periods of focused study? I am asking more for my older daughter, who has been HS level since about 4th grade.

 

I'm don't know your child(ren)'s age, but here are some random thoughts:

 

I don't schedule more time that I would for a typical child. Just because a young child can work at a higher level doesn't mean they should be forces to adopt the schedule of an older student. I do no more than 3 hours per day with my 8yo, including a read aloud for history.

 

As for rigour, I meet her where she is in each subject and watch for signs of stress. And I listen. I know we talk a lot in this forum about challenging gifted kids, but sometimes they just want to blow through an almost literal ton of somewhat simpler materials to provide a background or a framework; not everything need be studied in minute detail... but of course some things do, and your child will probably let you know what these are. ;)

 

There also a question of inputs vs outputs, not only in terms of physical output with respect to handwriting (we still do some work orally when appropriate), but also possessing the maturity to handle research papers or even outlining with younger children. I work to make sure the inputs are ability appropriate, and the outputs are better matched to age and maturity level. Sometimes there's a wide disparity, and sometimes not, depending on the subject. The biggest gap is in English literature: we read and discuss (child led, for the most part) informally, but I have no requirements for outputs because I think DD the Elder just too young. I don't want to spoil the free reading years with formal academic demands.

 

Thanks for such a thoughtful post. I agree with you about limiting the number of hours. I have also found that I am much more involved in the output process with my younger two (age 8) because of their inability to reduce everything to writing for their ability level. Your statements about ability level inputs and maturity level outputs help tremendously. Do I then let them dictate these outlines and papers to me, or do we forego them altogether?

[Kuovonne]

I pick programs based on where DD is academically. I try to pick programs that are "just do the next page." I decide how long to work on each subject per day based on DD's age and maturity. Although we tend to spend the same amount of time on each subject each day, how much we accomplish totally varies from day to day.

 

For example, DD is strong in language arts. However, she is young, so we only spend about 10-20 minutes on it per day. We might do one page, or four pages, depending on how it goes that day. DD usually tells me when she has had enough.

 

DD isn't as strong in math. We still spend about 10-20 minutes on math per day. We might do anywhere from half a page to two pages. Again, DD usually tells me when she has had enough.

 

I don't schedule anything in advance anymore. When DD was learning to read, I bought a bunch of early readers that we never used because DD's reading advanced so quickly. When doing math, I started to stress out that we wouldn't finish the book by the end of the school year. By simply doing the next thing, and not scheduling at all, I no longer have either problem.

[fractalgal]

How do you determine the number of hours/day and level of rigor for dc working at levels significantly higher than their chronological age? I am really struggling with how to design our studies for next year. What should their education look like... in terms of content, time frames, scheduling?

 

It depends on the child. My 10 yo daughter can calmly withstand long periods of math, latin, reading, etc. She comes out of it with a smile on her face, and then will usually ask me questions about what she has just learned periodically throughout the day...like you can tell she is still tossing it around in her mind. :)

 

My 5 yo old wiggles away after about 15 minutes of math, reading, etc.

 

When designing a schedule, I'd take into account the ability and toleration/frustration level of each child. No one schedule fits all. That is one of the benefits of homeschooling - that you can tailor it to the individual child.

 

A solid education should challenge them and even push them out of their comfort zone occasionally, but it should not frustrate them so much so that they end up dreading any subject. I seek the balance for each individual child.

[Embassy]

So, then, how long do you think is appropriate for children who are capable of long periods of focused study? I am asking more for my older daughter, who has been HS level since about 4th grade.

 

 

My son could spend all day in focused study on something he is interested in. Overall, he spends about 5-6 hours a day in school. I assign him one hour of his topic of interest per week (he is taking an online video class). He often makes that hour class turn into 3-4 hours by going off exploring tangents that the teacher is talking about. His interest plays a role in how much he does. I think kids can spend as much time in school as their public school peers. We just use time more effectively.

[EKS]

I pick materials that are appropriate for my son's academic level. However, the time spent is fairly age appropriate. We also do more orally and I will write for him as appropriate.

[Gratia271]

I don't schedule anything in advance anymore. When DD was learning to read, I bought a bunch of early readers that we never used because DD's reading advanced so quickly. When doing math, I started to stress out that we wouldn't finish the book by the end of the school year. By simply doing the next thing, and not scheduling at all, I no longer have either problem.

 

That is what I have been doing the past several years, but I have discovered I need a schedule for me in order to direct them. It is so frustrating, though, to plan things and then have them move beyond it so quickly. I am trying to figure out how to balance that out for this next academic term.

 

When designing a schedule, I'd take into account the ability and toleration/frustration level of each child. No one schedule fits all. That is one of the benefits of homeschooling - that you can tailor it to the individual child.

 

A solid education should challenge them and even push them out of their comfort zone occasionally, but it should not frustrate them so much so that they end up dreading any subject. I seek the balance for each individual child.

 

From a scheduling standpoint, I think what I am struggling with the most is finding the schedule for each of mine with their variant personalities and frustration levels, understanding that some require more of me than others... which leaves me grappling for a master schedule that enables me to meet each one's individual needs.

 

The concept of challenging them is crucial to me, as I believe they need to be able to push through frustration and failure but not to the point that they disdain their studies. Mine definitely need to be pushed beyond their comfort zone, though, which is one of the reasons I am struggling with precisely how rigorous to make their schedule and content.

 

My son could spend all day in focused study on something he is interested in. Overall, he spends about 5-6 hours a day in school. I assign him one hour of his topic of interest per week (he is taking an online video class). He often makes that hour class turn into 3-4 hours by going off exploring tangents that the teacher is talking about. His interest plays a role in how much he does. I think kids can spend as much time in school as their public school peers. We just use time more effectively.

 

Point well taken about effective use of time. My son is as you described. I need to work with him on devoting more time to studies which are not of significant interest to him.

[nmoira]

The concept of challenging them is crucial to me, as I believe they need to be able to push through frustration and failure but not to the point that they disdain their studies.

It doesn't address the larger question of curriculum, but one thing I've done from the beginning is have a tough daily math or logic puzzle, with care taken to make sure at least one each week is way outside her comfort zone. I also try to choose math programs that have at least a section of challenging problems for each topic. However, generally I've found that DD the Elder is comfortable regulating her own level of rigour. She gets terribly bored if not sufficiently challenged and it's obvious.

 

It's also important to learn that sometimes we *have* to pay meticulous attention to detail. I find that Latin to English and English to Latin translations are helpful in reinforcing this.

Edited May 13, 2010 by nmoira
grammar

[MaMa2005]

I don't schedule anything in advance anymore. When DD was learning to read, I bought a bunch of early readers that we never used because DD's reading advanced so quickly. When doing math, I started to stress out that we wouldn't finish the book by the end of the school year. By simply doing the next thing, and not scheduling at all, I no longer have either problem.

 

This is how we finally operated this school year. It worked well because DS was speeding though material at such a rapid pace.

 

However, for next year, I am going to try to schedule what we do to keep DS from getting so far over his chronological age. For example, next year we will be schooling at home rigorously three days a week (the other 2 days are for extracurricular classes and art/drama/keyboarding classes). I have his math scheduled to do three pages per day i.e., three lessons. We will begin Horizon Math 4 at the beginning of August. If I didn't put a limit on the number of pages, DS would be through the fourth grade book by the middle of September. I really don't want to be doing sixth grade math with a 5 year old in the spring!!!

 

I do make accommodations for physical output as DS does have some fine motor delays. Some things are done orally though I still expect high quality work.

 

Our state requires that we school for 4.5 hours daily. I am fortunate that DS has a long attention span, but he still needs breaks. I am sure that the three days we are at home that school will take us from 8:00 until 3:30 with the necessary breaks. The two days he is out of the house for enrichment classes are 5 hours per day.

 

Hope that helps a little bit. I am a natural born scheduler and to go without one really makes me nervous :tongue_smilie:.

[Gratia271]

I am the same way about scheduling. After attempting things w/o major scheduling, I have discovered that I need it, at least for me. :001_smile:

[Embassy]

I schedule everything and adjust as necessary.

[patchfire]

I know we talk a lot in this forum about challenging gifted kids, but sometimes they just want to blow through an almost literal ton of somewhat simpler materials to provide a background or a framework; not everything need be studied in minute detail... but of course some things do, and your child will probably let you know what these are. ;)

 

This is an important point. For example, dd has expressed interest in looking at high school level science a fair number of years early. Luckily, her math skills are fine for this goal, but next year, she's going to zoom through "middle school science." Neither she nor I *want* a rigorous middle school science program; time enough for rigor later.

[2smartones]

I've always heard (and have come to believe) that an average homeschooled child should spend 30 minutes (give/take 30) per grade level. So, a K-1 would spend 30 minutes per day (not all at the same time) and a high schooler would spend 5-6 hours. If your child is chronologically 5 (kindergarten) but academically in 3rd grade, you would probably have a happy medium of K-3rd (so, 30 minutes up to 2 hours, which would change on a daily basis). It depends on the attention span of that child.

 

I like to schedule more than I need. Some days my kids wake up in the worst moods because they didn't sleep well, they're sick, or whatever. We don't do any more than what they ask for on those days. Some days they wake up ready to soak in the world. We'll work the entire day if that's what they're asking for. Most days fall somewhere between age and grade appropriate, though. They tend to learn things much faster than an average student would, so it's easy to get through 3 hours of work in only 1-2 hours.

[fractalgal]

 

I am struggling with precisely how rigorous to make their schedule and content.

 

 

 

In the beginning of the school year, the first two weeks can be the toughest. After several weeks of a schedule, we usually have a routine down that helps things run more smoothly. For example, each child knows what is coming next and the routine helps them to understand what is expected of them.

 

When I make schedules I usually allow extra time for certain subjects - like math or languages. These subjects can have questions from previous days' assignments and its best not to rush through or put rigid time limits on them. Usually we don't need the extra time but it is helpful to know that it is there if necessary.

 

I know it can be hard to relax when you are trying to juggle various abilities and subjects. If you prioritize subjects which are most important to you, I think it makes it easier.

 

How rigorous to make the content depends on the child. You can tell by their behavior. If a child rarely makes mistakes on a subject and usually gets 95-100% on everything, it is probably too easy. I'd add in something more difficult. If every problem or a large majority of problems are a struggle to get through, it is likely too hard or not the right approach. I would then re-evaluate or slow things down a bit.

[catz]

I'm don't know your child(ren)'s age, but here are some random thoughts:

 

I don't schedule more time that I would for a typical child. Just because a young child can work at a higher level doesn't mean they should be forces to adopt the schedule of an older student. I do no more than 3 hours per day with my 8yo, including a read aloud for history.

 

 

:iagree: This is what I do with my kids too. My 3rd grader often does about 3 hours. My young Kindergartner (summer b-day) does about 30-45 minutes. I also only require age appropriate output. Although my 3rd grader is now a fluent typer, so I'm getting more out of him in terms of writing. I very much don't stress about finishing books at the end of the year. We are crawling through history. But we do a lot of asides and as long as they are actually engaged and learning some history, I'm ok with it. However, my 3rd grader has covered 5 years of math since we started homeschooling in 2nd grade.

 

There is the matter of challenge. And I do want my kids to be challenged appropriately. So they very much work at their level. Just not necessarily for longer than an average child their age would be. We also do music lessons for both kids which is a great place in which they can move at their own pace, be continually challenged, learn to except constructive criticism, and learn to work with a mentor.

 

They do have a lot of unstructed hours, but only after 3 pm are they allowed to do things like maybe watch TV or play video games. They use other open time for their own inventions, projects, reading, and research.

[Kuovonne]

That is what I have been doing the past several years, but I have discovered I need a schedule for me in order to direct them. It is so frustrating, though, to plan things and then have them move beyond it so quickly. I am trying to figure out how to balance that out for this next academic term.

 

 

I don't schedule individual pages in books, but I do have a plan of sorts. For each subject I know what books / resources we're using and I know what books / resources I plan on using when we're done with the current ones. I don't know or care when we move on to the next set of books/resources. It might be months or it might be years. However, once we start them I'll work on what to use right after them.

 

I also have a daily plan what says what subjects to do each day. I post the day's subjects for DD and she picks which subjects she wants to do when. She knows which ones need to be done before getting a play break. I am pushing her to be as independant as possible in her subjects in two ways: (1) I have an early, heavy emphasis on those skills that help her be independent (reading and handwriting); and (2) I try to have DD do as much "school" on her own as she can, and then save checking and discussing errors with me later, all at once.

 

Of course, I'm only schooling one (with a pre-schooler in tow) so that makes things easier for me. My daughter is also not gifted, which makes things even easier. (She is asynchronous, though, which is why I hope it's okay for me to post on this thread.)

Edited May 12, 2010 by Kuovonne

[Kuovonne]

I really don't want to be doing sixth grade math with a 5 year old in the spring!!!

 

What's wrong with doing sixth grade math with a five year old, as long as the five year old understands and likes it?

 

I hope you don't take my question the wrong way. I am genuinely curious. My child *isn't* advanced in math, so I won't have that issue, so maybe there are problems that I don't see?

[2smartones]

What's wrong with doing sixth grade math with a five year old, as long as the five year old understands and likes it?

 

I hope you don't take my question the wrong way. I am genuinely curious. My child *isn't* advanced in math, so I won't have that issue, so maybe there are problems that I don't see?

 

:iagree: I have one who's mildly accelerated in math, but he was on a high school reading level when he was 4. I come to their level no matter what the subject. I understand not allowing someone on, say, a 3rd grade math level to do chemistry, but as long as one subject doesn't get in the way of another, and as long as it's emotionally appropriate, I let my kids learn whatever they want to learn. It's very hard for adults to learn new things because our brains are already formed. Kids soak up knowledge quickly from the moment they're born. The older they get, the harder it is to learn. I say learning early is best. It forms a good foundation, and it helps the brain make necessary connections for things they'll want to learn when they're more mature.

[Gratia271]

I've always heard (and have come to believe) that an average homeschooled child should spend 30 minutes (give/take 30) per grade level. So, a K-1 would spend 30 minutes per day (not all at the same time) and a high schooler would spend 5-6 hours. If your child is chronologically 5 (kindergarten) but academically in 3rd grade, you would probably have a happy medium of K-3rd (so, 30 minutes up to 2 hours, which would change on a daily basis). It depends on the attention span of that child.

 

I have never heard of 30 minutes per grade. The idea of balancing age level with academic level in terms of time invested sounds like a reasonable compromise. All three of my children possess quite long attention spans, so my struggle is trying to determine how much time is appropriate. Thank you for the suggestion!

 

 

When I make schedules I usually allow extra time for certain subjects - like math or languages. These subjects can have questions from previous days' assignments and its best not to rush through or put rigid time limits on them. I know it can be hard to relax when you are trying to juggle various abilities and subjects. If you prioritize subjects which are most important to you, I think it makes it easier.

 

I also avoid being rigid in my approach with time constraints. I realize I need to alter that somewhat because they can spend hours on something of interest without desiring to move on to the next thing.

 

I don't schedule individual pages in books, but I do have a plan of sorts. For each subject I know what books / resources we're using and I know what books / resources I plan on using when we're done with the current ones. I don't know or care when we move on to the next set of books/resources. It might be months or it might be years. However, once we start them I'll work on what to use right after them.

 

I also have a daily plan what says what subjects to do each day. I post the day's subjects for DD and she picks which subjects she wants to do when. She knows which ones need to be done before getting a play break. I am pushing her to be as independant as possible in her subjects in two ways: (1) I have an early, heavy emphasis on those skills that help her be independent (reading and handwriting); and (2) I try to have DD do as much "school" on her own as she can, and then save checking and discussing errors with me later, all at once. Of course, I'm only schooling one (with a pre-schooler in tow) so that makes things easier for me. My daughter is also not gifted, which makes things even easier. (She is asynchronous, though, which is why I hope it's okay for me to post on this thread.)

 

You make a great point about the independence. That is something that I have tried to instill in them from a young age. On an age appropriate level, they need to take ownership of *their* education. It is a challenge, though, with subjects about which they have no interest. I find myself managing more in the areas that they dislike.

 

I have one who's mildly accelerated in math, but he was on a high school reading level when he was 4. I come to their level no matter what the subject. I understand not allowing someone on, say, a 3rd grade math level to do chemistry, but as long as one subject doesn't get in the way of another, and as long as it's emotionally appropriate, I let my kids learn whatever they want to learn. It's very hard for adults to learn new things because our brains are already formed. Kids soak up knowledge quickly from the moment they're born. The older they get, the harder it is to learn. I say learning early is best. It forms a good foundation, and it helps the brain make necessary connections for things they'll want to learn when they're more mature.

 

Excellent points about brain development! I have always been a proponent of early learning, though not in the traditional "schooling" sense. I tend to allow my children to pursue whatever interests them, the problem being the scheduling of things they don't like. It gets tedious managing the attitudes.

[Colleen in SEVA]

Short answer: I challenge on the input level, but keep the expected output level just below where he is currently learning. Meaning: right now we are learning how to formulate a proper paragraph, so in other areas of study I would expect output of a couple of nicely written sentences. When we move on to learning to put together an essay, I will expect his output in other areas to be a nicely put together paragraph.

Edited May 13, 2010 by Colleen in SEVA

[Tracy]

I think this depends a lot on the age of the child. In the case of my 5yo, I have had to consciously turn away from curricula that I know she could do and even enjoy just to make sure her plate is not too full and so she has time to just be a kid. She is doing 1st and 2nd grade work in all areas, but she is only old enough to be going into K in the fall. I have decided not to do any writing until at least age 6 (but she does do copywork) or grammar until at least age 8. She could do it. She might enjoy it. But she will have many years to work on these things, and because she is gifted, she will pick them up easier than other kids her age. So right now she has time to do the things that she loves the most--reading, pretending, playing games (many of which are educational).

[Irene Lynn]

The problem is that each child is so very different in their strengths and abilities in any given subject. Our child loved discussion and reading, but was significantly slower with any output. She does very well with writing now, but in the earlier years, I just chose not to worry about it. I did have a schedule, but it was based on time. I scheduled her more difficult subjects early in the day and left her favorites for the afternoon. That way she got her requuired time dedicated to the subjects that required pushing a bit and left her time to explore long after her time was done with her favorite subjects. I did not put an ending time on the day, other than to indicate that my participation was over.

 

I had a general outline in my head of the order of study that I wanted her to follow for the next few years, so I always knew what we would do next, in case she was ready sooner than I might have expected. In our case, dd did not fly through subjects. She took the same amount of time, but did several grades worth of learning as far as depth of knowledge. She preferred to percolate in time periods or science subjects. Ex. When she was just a little cutiepie, she was interested in Harriet Tubman. I got 3 books from the library on the subject on 3 different levels. The first one introduced the most common vocabulary on the subject, which I explained. We finished that short little book and picked up the next one, which used those new words and added more. We immediately followed that with another one that went further yet. A few moments before dd would not have been able to handle the third book that we read, but doing three in a row took her to the depth she wanted while keeping it "light". Some children would prefer using that same time to meet three different people on that first level or something else entirely. I tired to go by subjects, not curriculum in the early years, though I used curriculum. I just viewed it as a general guideline from which to jump into more depth as desired. That kept me from getting too frustrated.

 

Once dd reached highschool level in her ability to produce, I considered her a highschooler. At that point she had a more strictly scheduled day. She was able to do highschool level cognitively, but her ability to deal with stress, as in deadlines and expectations of any sort (read pretty emotional here. :D), and her perfectionistic tendencies, and her near inability to scan (just found this out with some testing and that explained a lot.) slowed her down significantly. On the other hand, last night while discussing an assignment she was given, some of her thoughts could easily be expanded and expored to make a good doctoral thesis. If dd had a no-holds-barred personality, and a stronger aptitude for scanning, and a much higher tolerance for stress, she would appear much different. I would have approached her education differently, too, and the outcome might have been a child pushing for college much younger than she is now. In other words the cognitive ability is only one small part (sometimes) in the the choices that each of us make for the education of our bright kids. How a child deals with the asynchrony makes a big difference and which things are at a higher level of production and which are at a lower level.

 

When it gets down to it, trust your gut. I often found that I knew the answer to things like this, but I was fighting it for some reason. Sometimes I wanted her to be more scheduled, because that seemed right for some reason, but in my gut I knew that a certain subject needed to be left more flexible. Maybe another subject needed a more strict schedule to keep us on track. When I fought my gut, it just brought tension. In the end I have never regretted following my own instinct, whether it was my ideal plan or not.

[mycalling]

I constantly push the bar when I'm planning curricula. I take into account their learning style and method preferences and find the funnest version that fits. We add a lot of videos/shows because there is no output needed and it gets them thinking more, it seems. Plus we do a lot of CDRom stuff because they can get more than I can provide, at their own pace.

 

I also try to choose curriculum for their less-skilled subjects that incorporates their best subjects or vise versa. For example, my 8yo is gifted in math and logic, not so in reading comprehension. This year he did a lot with deductive reasoning that helped with basic reading comprehension. Next year he will be doing Math Detective because it includes page-long math word problems where he has to find information, keep track of characters, follow a plot to keep up with steps...just like if it were reading comprehension with characters and story lines. There are a few things missing like emotions or character growth, but this is by far his worse subject and MD will help him improve in many areas of reading comp.

[Gratia271]

Short answer: I challenge on the input level, but keep the expected output level just below where he is currently learning. Meaning: right now we are learning how to formulate a proper paragraph, so in other areas of study I would expect output of a couple of nicely written sentences. When we move on to learning to put together an essay, I will expect his output in other areas to be a nicely put together paragraph.

 

I think that is how I am going to proceed this next term. I have struggled with determining input vs. output because there is such a stark contrast there! Thanks!

 

I think this depends a lot on the age of the child. In the case of my 5yo, I have had to consciously turn away from curricula that I know she could do and even enjoy just to make sure her plate is not too full and so she has time to just be a kid. She is doing 1st and 2nd grade work in all areas, but she is only old enough to be going into K in the fall. I have decided not to do any writing until at least age 6 (but she does do copywork) or grammar until at least age 8. She could do it. She might enjoy it. But she will have many years to work on these things, and because she is gifted, she will pick them up easier than other kids her age. So right now she has time to do the things that she loves the most--reading, pretending, playing games (many of which are educational).

 

That is one of the stumbling blocks for me. How do I balance their "age" with their ability? I have basically abandoned much curricula because it was not designed for GT children. When I purchase advanced level materials, it doesn't work inasmuch as they are marketed to the older age group to whom my children don't relate. HS French, for example, has conversational elements that would appeal to HS students. I completely understand where they are coming from, but it renders a lot of otherwise excellent material ineffective for us. In addition, as you said, I believe children need to be allowed their childhood, which brings me back to the desire for more curricular choices that consider needs of the GT student population. It would be great to find materials (instead of constantly piecing them together) that understand and accommodate this distinction.

 

I also try to choose curriculum for their less-skilled subjects that incorporates their best subjects or vise versa. For example, my 8yo is gifted in math and logic, not so in reading comprehension. This year he did a lot with deductive reasoning that helped with basic reading comprehension. Next year he will be doing Math Detective because it includes page-long math word problems where he has to find information, keep track of characters, follow a plot to keep up with steps...just like if it were reading comprehension with characters and story lines. There are a few things missing like emotions or character growth, but this is by far his worse subject and MD will help him improve in many areas of reading comp.

 

That is a great idea to incorporate their best subjects with the less-skilled subjects. I have one dc who tends toward extremes in terms of what she prefers to study, so doing that will help her tremendously in the areas she doesn't like as much.

[Gratia271]

The problem is that each child is so very different in their strengths and abilities in any given subject. Our child loved discussion and reading, but was significantly slower with any output. She does very well with writing now, but in the earlier years, I just chose not to worry about it. I did have a schedule, but it was based on time. I scheduled her more difficult subjects early in the day and left her favorites for the afternoon. That way she got her requuired time dedicated to the subjects that required pushing a bit and left her time to explore long after her time was done with her favorite subjects. I did not put an ending time on the day, other than to indicate that my participation was over. Thanks for the time-based scheduling idea. For the next term, I am going to experiment with scheduling my younger two in blocks of time, as I think this may solve part of my problem in the endless pursuit of certain subjects and the avoidance of others as a result.

 

I had a general outline in my head of the order of study that I wanted her to follow for the next few years, so I always knew what we would do next, in case she was ready sooner than I might have expected. In our case, dd did not fly through subjects. She took the same amount of time, but did several grades worth of learning as far as depth of knowledge. She preferred to percolate in time periods or science subjects. Ex. When she was just a little cutiepie, she was interested in Harriet Tubman. I got 3 books from the library on the subject on 3 different levels. The first one introduced the most common vocabulary on the subject, which I explained. We finished that short little book and picked up the next one, which used those new words and added more. We immediately followed that with another one that went further yet. A few moments before dd would not have been able to handle the third book that we read, but doing three in a row took her to the depth she wanted while keeping it "light". Some children would prefer using that same time to meet three different people on that first level or something else entirely. I tired to go by subjects, not curriculum in the early years, though I used curriculum. I just viewed it as a general guideline from which to jump into more depth as desired. That kept me from getting too frustrated. I am going to work on an outline of the next several years instead of planning annually, as they seem to fly through some things which leaves me grappling mid-year. Like you, I view curriculum as a springboard, but it would be wonderful to have something established for me. DH has told me that there is no such curriculum for someone with my personality. I suppose that is where my children get it from. :001_smile:

 

Once dd reached highschool level in her ability to produce, I considered her a highschooler. At that point she had a more strictly scheduled day. She was able to do highschool level cognitively, but her ability to deal with stress, as in deadlines and expectations of any sort (read pretty emotional here. :D), and her perfectionistic tendencies, and her near inability to scan (just found this out with some testing and that explained a lot.) slowed her down significantly. On the other hand, last night while discussing an assignment she was given, some of her thoughts could easily be expanded and expored to make a good doctoral thesis. If dd had a no-holds-barred personality, and a stronger aptitude for scanning, and a much higher tolerance for stress, she would appear much different. I would have approached her education differently, too, and the outcome might have been a child pushing for college much younger than she is now. In other words the cognitive ability is only one small part (sometimes) in the the choices that each of us make for the education of our bright kids. How a child deals with the asynchrony makes a big difference and which things are at a higher level of production and which are at a lower level.

This is something I am working through in my own mind in terms of how much rigor to expect when a child is cognitively ready for that level work. Having this experience, do you think that it is appropriate to expect the same output from a student doing HS level work but much younger age-wise? I struggle with this because, again, I want my children to have their childhood, but I don't want to hold them back. In your experience, is it better to have them do the HS work but not expect the same rigor in terms of deadlines, daily workload etc?

 

When it gets down to it, trust your gut. I often found that I knew the answer to things like this, but I was fighting it for some reason. Sometimes I wanted her to be more scheduled, because that seemed right for some reason, but in my gut I knew that a certain subject needed to be left more flexible. Maybe another subject needed a more strict schedule to keep us on track. When I fought my gut, it just brought tension. In the end I have never regretted following my own instinct, whether it was my ideal plan or not.

 

Thanks for your detailed explanation!

[Tracy]

How do I balance their "age" with their ability? I have basically abandoned much curricula because it was not designed for GT children. When I purchase advanced level materials, it doesn't work inasmuch as they are marketed to the older age group to whom my children don't relate. In addition, as you said, I believe children need to be allowed their childhood, which brings me back to the desire for more curricular choices that consider needs of the GT student population. It would be great to find materials (instead of constantly piecing them together) that understand and accommodate this distinction.

 

 

I feel your pain! It is very hard to find something that is appropriate. For example, I am rather enamored with FLL. I know that dd5 was ready even a year ago but that by the time she is the right age to do grammar, it will be too easy for her. But I think if you check out gifted forums, you will find some curricula that are favorites among that group. We have found some for this year that have really allowed dd5 to soar. And I think we have made some good finds for next year, too.

[Irene Lynn]

Thanks for your detailed explanation!

 

Like you, I view curriculum as a springboard, but it would be wonderful to have something established for me. DH has told me that there is no such curriculum for someone with my personality. I suppose that is where my children get it from. :001_smile:

 

LOL! I can't follow any curriculum without messing with it, though I have come close a few times.

 

This is something I am working through in my own mind in terms of how much rigor to expect when a child is cognitively ready for that level work. Having this experience, do you think that it is appropriate to expect the same output from a student doing HS level work but much younger age-wise? I struggle with this because, again, I want my children to have their childhood, but I don't want to hold them back. In your experience, is it better to have them do the HS work but not expect the same rigor in terms of deadlines, daily workload etc?

 

For my dd I did not expect the same output as I would have from an older student. She would have hated school. When she turned 13 something clicked and she was ready to handle a kick-it-into-gear year with more tests, writing assignments, and more independent scheduling and work. The previous 2 years were impacted by puberty. She was still able to learn and forge ahead, but her ability to handle any sort of stress was really low. :) And output was stress. We ended up taking advantage of being ahead the year she was 12. She chose to study Asian history, primariy Chinese and Japanese history, but it was a little broader. We used Teaching Company lectures and a recommended textbook, and Asian art books and a couple of other books. She certainly learned, but it was not a typical year. She still read good solid literature and worked more lightly on math. Math was stressful and she was ahead anyway.

 

Language Arts was one of the craziest areas. She operated on one level for literature and analysis, another for spelling, yet another for writing. Her written output was her biggest weakness. Her ability to speak in beautiful sentences was great, but it did not translate onto the page. Well, at age 14 she decided that she wanted to take the National Novel Writing Month challenge and try writing a 50k word novel in the month of November. She did and continued to do it for 2 more years so far. And she kept writing until the novel was done, which was longer than the 50k. She just finished a 10 page paper for schoolwork, but could see her way to writing a 30 page paper. Her writing is good! I worried about it through the years, but did not push too hard. I was afraid that she would turn against it. I am glad that I let her own love for writing flourish in its own sweet time. BUT she could not have done this type of highschool writing, as early as she could have held her own with other highschoolers in a discussion of their material. I say let each child fly in the areas hwere they can fly and keep working on the areas that are more challenging at the actual level that those areas are. Once those slower areas kick in they will kick in at that higher level or close to it, at least that is how it worked with our dd.

 

One curriculum choice I made when dd was 9 was a bit unusual and not really seen as acceptable. She was ready for American history, which is not her favorite. She loved ancient history, but starts loosing interest about 1400 or earlier. Anyway, the best fit I found for her was Sonlight. Dd loved to read and the more the merrier. I was able to purchase SL 3&4 for a bargain price from a friend and then purchased Core 100 (It was called SL7 back then). We used the Core 100 as our spine and I added all the books for SL4 and at least half the books from SL3 onto a huge shelf of books for her to read. She read all the notes for the later core, but didn't miss all the other good books from the cores that were supposedly more "age appropriate". It worked great! She loved that year. The books reached her need for more complex information, but there was no way that I required the writing. We did our own L.A. stuff for grammar and writing. I am sure she could have gotten more out of Core 100, if she were older, but if she were older, she wouldn't have enjoyed it as much. I chose to go with enjoyment. :)

 

Another thing to consider when the child is younger than highschool age, is that their interests often change. That has helped dd to "slow down". It isn't really slowing down, but it is moving in areas that no longer affect her school subjects. She has become interested in and can tell you more than you want to know about Japanese cooking and bento boxes and other gourmet cooking, knitting, art, her characters (and her friend's characters) for her novels, and random other things that come up in the arts and creative type of fields. School, which used to be a wonderful part of her day, now interferes with the things she wants to do. She just doesn't have enough hours in the day to cook, paint, draw, and write, help me organize the house, and read, and ...etc.

 

There really are such lovely ways to keep the our children's strengths growing while waiting for their weaknesses to grow to a point that they won't let the child down.