WHY not Saxon?

[Lovedtodeath]

I don't know about Singapore, but MUS has that very same "weakness" if it is one.

[dancer67]

I wanted to add, that I just spoke with Art Reed. He is the teacher on Teaching Tapes for Saxon Algebra on up. He was VERY helpful. And it was really nice to be able to get in touch with him. He is there to answer any questions you might have.

 

He is currently working on Saxon 76/87/1/2 for his Teaching Tape series.

 

He suggested that in the lower grades, to use DIVE and not the Teaching Tapes, since they are alot of money, and at that level, we may not even need the DIVE CD. When we start getting to 6/5 we may need DIVE because I am not a "math" person at all.

 

I just thought I would mention it :lol:

[angela in ohio]

(Forgive me if this link is inflammatory or controversial, I'm clueless, I just thought it was interesting.)

 

http://www.lewrockwell.com/taylor/taylor75.html

 

Not that controersial, but totally inaccurate. Many homeschoolers feared that the new publisher would 'dumb down' the homeschool version. It was a rumour going around the internet. This article was linked here in several threads, it was discussed and the books compared at length. It is not true.

 

Perhaps what I dislike the most about Saxon are the frequently poor explanations. I tired of tossing the book aside and teaching my children myself.

 

Yes, this too. Sometimes my students were frustrated because there would be a completely inadequate explanation, then an example problem or two. It was not even close to enogh fr them to figure it out. I would have to dig into what I had learned in other programs to teach it to them in different terms.

 

Also those who do not like Saxon are mostly likely those that the program just didn't work out for them for whatever reason( child that didn't need review, tears, child that learned the concepts quickly... etc).

 

There is also the possibility that the program did not work out because it is not a good program. When I taught a class with it, and they all had problems with it (as I said, I practically just ended up teaching them math on my own,) then I began to see its true flaws. Before that, I was in the 'if it works for you' camp, having tried it with my two dd.

 

Another thought: talking about going on from Saxon K-3 to Saxon 5/4 and up as continuing the same program is not really accurate. They are very different programs. There really is no difference in going from Saxon 3 to A Beka or Horizons than going to Saxon 5/4.

[Spy Car]

I remember this section for the "oddballs" - in other words - they had no trick for these. I remember thinking this was a weak spot in Saxon as well. I had my son use manipulatives to figure them out. We also did something similar to what you described. For 6+8, I showed him that we want to make 8 into a 10 by taking 2 away from the 6 which leaves us with 4 (6+8=4+10=14). This confused him at first, but then after showing it with a few more examples from the other "oddballs" he understood it.

 

 

Gosh, what's being called a weakness here in teaching oddballs is they way I'd want all sums between 10 and 99 to be taught.

 

And not with "tricks." This is a solid regrouping strategy, no?

 

Bill

[cathmom]

I've been homeschooling for 13 years and have used most levels of Saxon with my children. While it may work with some children very well, it did not with my 3 older children.

 

My oldest started at Saxon 7/6 and at first liked it. He could do it fine. Then when he started getting into the higher levels he could not understand it, even with the help of the DIVE CDs. We eventually hired a math tutor to help him finish high school. He detests math now and would never willingly take another math class. But, pre-Saxon, he liked math.

 

My second child used Math 1 through 54. She is unable to problem solve and did not retain what she learned. Because of her dyslexia, she had a very difficult time learning the math facts. She hated the DIVE CD for 54. She will tell you that she hates math. She now uses MUS.

 

My third child was the most harmed by Saxon because she developed a math phobia. She used Math 1 and seemed fine. We started Math 2 and I started having to bribe her with chocolate chips used as manipulatives. Halfway through Math 2 she had a complete meltdown. She felt like she never understood anything! This child has a very extreme "I don't get it" reaction to anything she doesn't know. It takes her several days to get comfortable with a concept. Saxon did not allow that (and I only understand this about her now, in retrospect). Saxon would introduce something and she wouldn't get it. The next day it would drop that and bring up something else and she wouldn't get that. Then the next day...ad infinitum! She felt stupid and she is actually a very bright girl. After her meltdown we just stopped. We did no math for a while. Then I bought Singapore and we did that for a bit but neither of us liked it. Now she is using MUS and four or more years later is starting to recover from Saxon.

 

So, here we have three children with three very different learning styles. None of them like math. None of them benefitted from Saxon. None of them can problem solve. The incremental approach never led to true understanding. I personally have no problem with math and considered majoring in it (in case you think I passed on my own math phobia).

 

I will not use Saxon again with any of my children. My younger children will use Right Start (I have one finishing up A and he loves math, loves doing problems and worksheets and demonstrates true understanding). When they finish RS, they will use MUS most likely.

[Classically Minded]

I chose not to go w/ Saxon in the first place bc the couple friends of mine that use it (most of my friends are straight Abeka) say that math takes them a good hour a day (for grades 1-3). I hate math and the thought of an hour a day made me run in the opposite direction. Now I've heard plenty of people on here say that it doesn't take that long, so I think that it may be more of my 'friend' than the 'curriculum'.

 

Yes, I think it was your friend not the curriculum. My dd is in Saxon 1 and we do 2 lessons a day and we are done in 30 minutes or less.

[Classically Minded]

Art Reed wrote a book about Saxon Math there is a section that talks about John Saxon. Just thought it was interesting :D.

 

 

I remember reading this back when I was thinking of going with Saxon, he was very helpful!

[fractalgal]

Gosh, what's being called a weakness here in teaching oddballs is they way I'd want all sums between 10 and 99 to be taught.

 

And not with "tricks." This is a solid regrouping strategy, no?

 

Bill

 

The weakness is the way that Saxon presented this "oddball" set of numbers - referring to them as a set of numbers as that is somehow odd. When I taught the lesson, I did not refer to the group of numbers as "oddballs". ;)

 

My children had no trouble picking up both ways - with the "tricks" that Saxon uses to teach the math facts and the regrouping as taught in Singapore.

 

The "solid regrouping strategy" that I think you are referring to (for example: 6+8=4+10=14) is really not that hard to teach nor understand when added to the way Saxon teaches the math facts.

 

The more ideas or ways to see the math facts the better.

Edited May 6, 2010 by fractalgal

[LizzyBee]

I see homeschoolers complaining about too many problems to complete in a day, not just with Saxon, but with many programs. I remember when I was in public school we almost always had 100... yes. I remember clearly. 100 every day. People are complaining about Saxon and Abeka because some of the lessons have more than 25. Really?

 

When my oldest dd was in school, they had drill sheets with 100 problems. But they were just basic math facts, and very few of the kids ever finished the sheet. They just had to do as many as they could in 5 minutes.

Edited May 6, 2010 by LizzyBee

[Spy Car]

The weakness is the way that Saxon presented this "oddball" set of numbers - referring to them as a set of numbers as that is somehow odd. When I taught the lesson, I did not refer to the group of numbers as "oddballs". ;)

 

I would have been very suppressed if you had :D

 

My children had no trouble picking up both ways - with the "tricks" that Saxon uses to teach the math facts and the regrouping as taught in Singapore.

 

The "solid regrouping strategy" that I think you are referring to (for example: 6+8=4+10=14) is really not that hard to teach nor understand when added to the way Saxon teaches the math facts.

 

The more ideas or ways to see the math facts the better. In other words, learning the math facts the way Saxon teaches them overall does not hurt the understanding of the regrouping way taught in Singapore. At least it did not confuse my own children. :)

 

Yea, but you taught them the good ("oddball" :tongue_smilie:) way.

 

Bill

[fractalgal]

So, here we have three children with three very different learning styles. None of them like math. None of them benefitted from Saxon. None of them can problem solve. The incremental approach never led to true understanding. I personally have no problem with math and considered majoring in it (in case you think I passed on my own math phobia).

 

 

 

I am sorry that happened. I would not use Saxon if my children did not respond well to it, either.

 

My 10 yo daughter last year used some of Saxon 7/6. She did not like it. She is now happier doing Russian Mathematics 6. It goes a bit more deeply into the concepts, but does not have the continuous review. She liked the earlier levels of Saxon, but not the middle levels.

[fractalgal]

 

Yea, but you taught them the good ("oddball" :tongue_smilie:) way.

 

 

 

Yes, I adapt.

 

If it is legitimate to learn (automatize) the math facts by using the Right Start games (which I own), then using Saxon math tricks should be egually legit. :D

[TracyR]

I think that's the beauty of being able to adapt. If showing your child the "oddball' way works then that's how it works for them. By showing them another way helps then so be it. But not all children will understand the same concept.

Even just by using a particular word. My oldest understands me when I say she has to regroup. My 2nd daughter looks at me like an alien when I use this one particular word. If I say borrow , she goes " Oh, okay now I understand, mom."

Its the beauty of homeschooling being able to adapt when we need to and getting them to understand things in a way they can only understand.

 

I will still stand by my saying , there is no one right way of teaching math. The only right way is the way that gets the light bulb to come on for your child.