Disclosure for those that sell or represent hs programs?

[Lovedtodeath]

But I see people using just the student materials a lot and then telling others "you don't need the TM". Some try it without the TM just to save money; others really don't need the TM because they're strong in that particular subject. But to tell newbies (or newbies to the curriculum) that they don't need the TM is unfair because the curriculum is written TO use the TM in order to get the full and complete lessons. Lifepacs are NOT meant for the student to use independently with mom being hands-off, yet I see a lot of moms trying to do that very thing. Same with BJU. And then they say the problem is with the *curriculum*.

That irks me too. There are TMs for a reason. I think that SWO would probably work for more people if they used the TM with it.

[lovemykids]

I am one of those people who sometimes recommends not buying the TM, But it’s usually because I have used the curriculum both with and without the TM in certain instances and I really didn’t see that much of a difference. The fact is, some are essential and some are not. Usually the person buying will know whether they need a TM to help them with that particular subject or not.

[Lovedtodeath]

 

I am one of those people who sometimes recommends not buying the TM,

Then you are bad, bad, bad!:glare::tongue_smilie::lol:

[johnandtinagilbert]

But see, that's a quirk you already know about yourself. That isn't necessarily what I'm talking about. Some people just do better doing their own thing, or like you said, a daily plan instead of weekly (or vice versa). But unless you're telling other people that WP or AAS *the curriculum* doesn't work, when you know the real reason is that doesn't work for YOU because you struggle with that type of TM, then you aren't leading people astray.

 

Two specific examples I've seen a lot over the years are BJU and Alpha Omega Lifepacs. Both of those curriculums are intended to be used with the TMs. The meat of the lessons are in the TMs. But I see people using just the student materials a lot and then telling others "you don't need the TM". Some try it without the TM just to save money; others really don't need the TM because they're strong in that particular subject. But to tell newbies (or newbies to the curriculum) that they don't need the TM is unfair because the curriculum is written TO use the TM in order to get the full and complete lessons. Lifepacs are NOT meant for the student to use independently with mom being hands-off, yet I see a lot of moms trying to do that very thing. Same with BJU. And then they say the problem is with the *curriculum*.

 

Another example: "CLE LA doesn't teach writing." Umm, yes it does, if you use the TMs. They also have a Writing Handbook that they recommend which is very inexpensive, and if you can afford to buy the LA, then you can afford to buy this little handbook. Also, CLE and AO Lifepacs both incorporate writing and other LA skills throughout the curriculum (in other subjects besides just the LA), but a mom uses *just* the LA, often without the TM, and then says "it doesn't teach writing". That's giving an unfair and incorrect assessment of the curriculum when they aren't even using it the way it's intended to be used.

 

Now if you were to say, "I don't like these big, bulky TMs" or "I don't like how the manual is laid out at this level", that's different. That's not the same as saying "this curriculum doesn't teach XYZ" when you didn't even bother to follow the author's instructions or use the TM at ALL. The latter is attacking the entire curriculum. The former is stating more accurately why the curriculum -- or that particular subject/level of the curriculum -- didn't work for you personally. And sometimes the layout or focus of a curriculum changes as it gets into upper levels, so it's just as unfair to imply that an entire curriculum doesn't do ABC when one has only used a small portion of it. See the difference?

I know just what you mean. I remember reading for the 1st time that Singapore math suggests in the TM to memorize facts before moving forward; since I never got the TM, I didn't know that and thought it was lacking in that one area. On the same line, I hear people who have barely or not at all used some of the programs I currently use and call them "teacher intensive." Drives me Nuts, :glare: especially when I find them easy to use.

 

I also must confess, there is one program I have warned against and never used.....b/c of all the people I have known IRL, only one has used it successfully. I did say, though, I haven't used this, but I have heard....unfortunately, it was in a math war thread, so now I just :auto: when any threads about this occur. I learned my lesson! I got a serious verbal lashing on that day! :D I deserved it, if only a little!

 

Just for the record (again) I get nothing, nada, zilch, for any of my posts....except for sanity. This place is my teacher's lounge!

[johnandtinagilbert]

That irks me too. There are TMs for a reason. I think that SWO would probably work for more people if they used the TM with it.

 

I am one of those people who sometimes recommends not buying the TM, But it’s usually because I have used the curriculum both with and without the TM in certain instances and I really didn’t see that much of a difference. The fact is, some are essential and some are not. Usually the person buying will know whether they need a TM to help them with that particular subject or not.

 

Then you are bad, bad, bad!:glare::tongue_smilie::lol:

On the flip side, I hate, HATE, hate, when I buy a TM and it's useless!

[lovemykids]

Then you are bad, bad, bad!:glare::tongue_smilie::lol:

 

:001_huh: Okay, if you say so...

 

:tongue_smilie:

[Lovedtodeath]

On the flip side, I hate, HATE, hate, when I buy a TM and it's useless!

Like ::ahem:: the one for Horizons Math?

[angela in ohio]

Like ::ahem:: the one for Horizons Math?

 

Horizons is the program I thought about when OP mentioned people saying they haven't had success with a program, but then you find out they didn't use the TM. :D

[Lovedtodeath]

Horizons is the program I thought about when OP mentioned people saying they haven't had success with a program, but then you find out they didn't use the TM. :D

ROFLOL! I only used K, but it seemed like it really didn't explain anything. It just tells you when to drill flashcards.

 

I immediately disliked all of the products that I tried for K though... I didn't have anything to compare them to, didn't know what to expect, etc.

[angela in ohio]

ROFLOL! I only used K, but it seemed like it really didn't explain anything. It just tells you when to drill flashcards.

 

I immediately disliked all of the products that I tried for K though... I didn't have anything to compare them to, didn't know what to expect, etc.

 

That's about all there is to it in K - drilling and manipulatives. There aren't a lot of difficult concepts to explain yet. :D Of course, I dislike Horizons K, because it seemed to have a lot more handwriting practice than math, even using the TM. Even my dd who was born with pencil in hand tired of it.

[rose_king]

This is why I love this place! :D

I think I would have been lost without this forum when I first read WTM. You get serious overload. I appreciate all the curriculum advice. I have found many things that I have loved, and a few things that I didn't. To tell you the truth, I never thought about who was giving the advice. I just consider everyone my own personal advice columnists. :tongue_smilie: I do tons of research before I buy, but more often than not, the idea to look at a certain something comes from here. I love it! I even love it when you argue.;) Makes you think about both sides, and sometimes it just makes you smile. :tongue_smilie:

[TracyP]

Having been accused of this myself, I can only say that I cannot take responsibility for anyone else's credit card usage. "Hey, look at X, it might do the trick for you" should not be read as "I know everything about everything and everyone and this thing is absolutely the right thing for you, so buy it right now because you should TRUST ME." If anyone reads suggestions in that way and is that "trigger happy" with their credit card, they need to get rid of their credit card. All "Hey, look at X because it might do the trick for you" really means is , "no one has suggested this thing to you yet and it might be what you are looking for, so have a look and see what you think."

 

If we get too carried away, there won't be anyone qualified to suggest anything! The author would look suspicious, people who've only heard about it will be afraid to mention it in case someone things they are strongly recommending rather than merely suggesting an idea the OP hadn't thought of yet, people who have used the product will be afraid to say anything in case others think they haven't used it long enough to be qualified in saying something, and anyone who has graduated a child using X product will feel unqualified to recommend it because they can't compare it to newer products!

 

I don't suppose I can see any reasons to get one's knickers in a knot. Those of you in the US can go along to a curriculum fair and look at it for real. The rest of us are obliged to read every review we can find online then cross our fingers and hit the purchase button.

 

Rosie

 

:iagree:

[Brindee]

I think I would have been lost without this forum when I first read WTM. You get serious overload. I appreciate all the curriculum advice. I have found many things that I have loved, and a few things that I didn't. To tell you the truth, I never thought about who was giving the advice. I just consider everyone my own personal advice columnists. :tongue_smilie: I do tons of research before I buy, but more often than not, the idea to look at a certain something comes from here. I love it!

:iagree: I could've written these exact words!

 

I've lately gotten involved more in TT, LoF and MFW discussions, but only because I've used TT and LoF, and am excited about MFW, though I haven't used it. I THINK I say I haven't used MFW when I've talked about it. But, I'm not affiliated with any company or anything either. I raved about R&S English for awhile because it TOTALLY turned my ds around and helped him learn so much when nothing else had worked! But it was just cuz I was so happy about it and wanted to share what had happened, not because I was trying to get some kind of compensation! :001_smile:

 

I've not thought about the compensation before either, but as Rosie so aptly stated, if we start making too many "rules" about what we can and can't say, this won't be much of a board anymore!

 

I like hearing both sides of the issue too! I've learned soooo much from the people here, and hope I've been able to help others some as well!

 

Viva la WTM! :D