MEP v SINGAPORE MATHS

[travelbug]

Hi all,

 

I wonder if anyone can give a comparison for these two - I am looking for an approach to teach a Grade 2 girl and Grade 1 boy - both love math!

 

Many thanks x

[mystika1]

:lurk5:

[travelbug]

anyone?...please?......

[forty-two]

On the mep yahoo group, there is a comparison b/w SM and MEP in the files section. She basically says that they are both awesome, but that MEP goes a bit deeper conceptually than SM, while SM's word problems are a bit more complex than MEP.

 

I've been waffled b/w the two for a while, but I think I've settled on a MEP/CSMP spine, while including CWP (I've got a complete set :tongue_smilie:), along with Miquon and RS.

 

I *want* to like SM (and I do like CWP) but, try as I might, I just can't appreciate the deceptive simplicity of the text ;). I see how it can *facilitate* conceptual teaching, since it is structured so as to develop a very strong intuitive sense of how the math works (which is great, don't get me wrong), but I just don't see anywhere where it explicitly teaches the concepts from first principles. I've never seen the HIG's, but everything I've read suggests they mostly contains helpful manipulative-based activities for gaining, once again, an *intuitive* sense of the concepts, but never makes the jump to showing explicitly how everything builds on each other. (I could be wrong - this is just my sense from extensive reading *about* SM - I only have the texts for 1a-3b and, while a cursory look didn't exactly overwhelm me with its awesomeness :tongue_smilie:, perhaps I'd appreciate it's subtle charms better on a second, more thorough look ;).)

 

However, I love everything I've seen of MEP Primary. It looks like such geeky fun :D - I'm gearing up to start Reception w/ my almost 4yo. I love how the authors were so very scrupulous in keeping things mathematically precise - making sure to throw out little reminders in the lesson plans at potential trouble spots so we don't inadvertently say something untrue. I can see how all the activities build on each other, leading to some pretty impressive problems. The more I see of it, the more I love it.

 

Now, part of the issue might be that I have seen more of MEP than SM. But I've also be thinking about where each of the programs is leading. SM is leading into a secondary curriculum that is all about solving difficult application problems, but completely neglects proofs. So it is not surprising that the primary program would focus on developing a strong intuitive math sense that would allow students to solve increasingly complex arithmetic word problems, but neglect explicit teaching of concepts. However, MEP (and CSMP, for that matter) is leading into a secondary program with a stronger focus on logic and proofs, so it makes sense that the primary program would focus more on explicitly teaching concepts from first principles.

 

I'm still trying to sort it all out, but that is where I'm at at the moment.

[travelbug]

wow.....thanks! Well I've just ordered all the MEP practice books...figure it was cheaper than printing them off and I'll take ift from there. many thank again.

[farmwife]

Where did you find the MEP practice books for sale?

[TracyP]

Where did you find the MEP practice books for sale?

 

:bigear:

[stripe]

From here: http://www.cimt.plymouth.ac.uk/projects/mep/default.htm

 

Order form for printed material

Print off this form if you want to order resources direct from CIMT.

http://www.cimt.plymouth.ac.uk/projects/mepres/ordform.pdf

 

--I think this is a more realistic option for UK and possibly EU residents; others may find the shipping costs high

[Becca211]

I wanted to throw in my experience for what it is worth. We used MEP the first 2 years we home schooled (3rd and 4th grade) and the beginning of 5th. We started on the second half of year 2 because he had not had multiplication yet, and that is where they introduced it. I loved it and he loved it...but I got scared. I started worrying we weren't covering everything, and I never felt like I could catch up. I know that was just me being OCD, but it bothered me. Around October, we switched to Singapore. We zipped through year 4 to cover things we hadn't covered and began 5A around December. We are now in 5B and will finish up by the end of the year.

 

What I have learned through this is that MEP does cover everything. I like the way they introduce things and keeps it interesting. They also cover some things that Singapore doesn't. We are switching back to MEP y6 next year. I do like Singapore's word problems, and the model method. I am glad we have learned that and I will keep these books to help my younger kids learn that as well.

[stripe]

As an aside -- Singapore's new curriculum (not the one used in Primary Maths as sold in the US, but the one they're actually now using in Singapore) does not include > and < in years 1-6. In MEP it's introduced at the very beginning of year 1. I found that fascinating!

 

I think both have rather clever ways of equipping students with ways of solving problems arithmetically that might tend to be perceived as requiring an algebraic set-up.

[Spy Car]

MEP is full of wonderful teaching ideas in the "Lesson Plans" and the problems the children will encounter in the Practice Books will have them *thinking* from day one. If they love math, they will love MEP. There is nothing like it in terms of encouraging children to use their noodles.

 

Singapore, especially if one uses the Intensive Practice books and the Complex Word Problems also has mentally challenging aspects, but it is different that the more pure math approach in MEP. Where Singapore is strong is building a method for solving word problems and teaching re-grouping skills and other strategies for doing mental math. I've yet to encounter anything similar in MEP.

 

My feeling is the combination of the two gives synergy. The two programs play very nicely together. The MEP-style inequalities really are the same thing as Singapore-style number bonds if you think about it.

 

There is nothing I've encountered so far that puts MEP and Singapore at cross-purposes, quite to the contrary the methods are very sympathetic. And they build on each others strengths.

 

Don't ask me to choose one over the other.

 

Enjoy MEP, I have no doubts your children will love it!

 

Bill

[fractalgal]

Singapore, especially if one uses the Intensive Practice books and the Complex Word Problems also has mentally challenging aspects, but it is different that the more pure math approach in MEP.

 

 

 

:iagree: about the pure math approach in MEP. When I looked over the elementary levels, I found it refreshing that a math program used the correct math terminology from the start. I had not seen that before, and it was one of the things that most impressed me about MEP. I remember even commenting to my husband [also a math person] about it!

 

Although I use Singapore as our main math program, I do think MEP appears to be a strong, thorough math program from what I have seen of it.

 

Singapore is great in its problem solving approach in general. The better of it is in the IP and CWP books when you have to pull out every creative math idea you can think of to solve the problems.

 

All math programs have their strengths and weakness, though. I think we try to pick and choose the best of what's available. :)

[Halcyon]

I enjoy using both with my 7 yo. I think they work wonderfully together and emphasize different aspect of similar problems. MEP comes at it from a very mathematical, almost geeky perspective, whereas SM incorporates a lot of mental math, a lot of word problems and a lot of (wonderful) thinking. There is very little drill, as most people understand it, in either program.

[anabelneri]

We're doing MEP as our current primary math program, but once we catch up (we started halfway through the year) we'll start doing Singapore's IP and CWP again, and next year we'll do MEP, IP, and CWP all through the year.

 

At least that's the plan :D

[HappyGrace]

Younger ds7 is a math guy, and I'm trying to accomodate him! We use a combo of things-Miquon (which was good but we just dropped it because he doesn't like/need the rods anymore), Singapore (he did EB and 1a and b and IP 1b, and we're 3 chapters into 2a-WITH the HIGs-they are essential, IMO), MEP and MM. (And some RS games but that is for fun family time-they love them!) Don't throw tomatoes but we also do some CLE for spiral review-lol! I'm trying to narrow down some for next year, but all this actually only ends up being a little less than an hour per day and he loves every minute of it! It is play to him. We don't do every program every day. Right now we're kind of trying to see what clicks best.

 

Anyway, MEP seems to be the one that gets done every day, the one he asks for and that we both enjoy most. We love the logic built into it. Also it is more incremental than Singapore. With Singapore, they move so quickly (for us) that you hit these walls where you have to stop and park for awhile. They're like-ok, you got the adding w/out renaming down in the last four pages-WHAM-here's addition WITH renaming, got that, ok, let's move on! They don't give you very long to cement the topics before moving on. That has been my experience in the limited amount we have done. Also, there are definitely ways to remedy that-like using the EP and IP books, etc. I think ds liked the "Take the Challenge" portions of the IP best of all we've done in Singapore, and those are very similar to what you see in MEP! (Note that I am not dissing Singapore-it is very, very good.)

 

In case you wanted to know, the MM is going well too. We do about a page at a time, not every day. We're in no rush because he's just ending first grade and in Grade 2 (including MEP level 2, which I think is actually 1st grade-and a foundational level!) of all the math I mentioned here, so we can just take it all slow and steady.

 

At first I though MEP would be our "tagalong" do-when-we-feel-like-it program, but there is turning out to be much more to it than I expected!

[stripe]

Anyway, MEP seems to be the one that gets done every day, the one he asks for and that we both enjoy most. We love the logic built into it. Also it is more incremental than Singapore. With Singapore, they move so quickly (for us) that you hit these walls where you have to stop and park for awhile. They're like-ok, you got the adding w/out renaming down in the last four pages-WHAM-here's addition WITH renaming, got that, ok, let's move on! They don't give you very long to cement the topics before moving on.

This has been my feeling as well. The Singapore type problems ended up going through addition and subtraction with results between 0 and 10 fairly quickly; I've found that with MEP, we are going over the same thing (for example, a week on 5, or multiple weeks on 2, for that matter), where you are sort of playing around with things where the answer is in some cases fairly obvious but the technique is interesting and thought-provoking. I love the puzzly things such as with the scales (where things balance...or not!) or figuring out what the values are for various shapes being added/subtracted that total 4, or whatever. I think these are quite clever. I also think it's very unusual for an elementary curriculum to have questions where the solution is not just a single number, for example, numbers greater than 2, or numbers less than 5. I think that's fantastic.

[travelbug]

Many thanks for all your replies! It leaves me with lots to think about....might just go ahead with using both for a while and seeing how it goes!

 

thanks again.

[Doubleblessings]

:iagree: this thread has been helpful for me. We have RS-A, Miquon, and I am getting Singapore 1A&B with instructor's guides and I have printed MEP, we have a few others as well :blush: , but I think these are the 4 :ohmy: that I am going to use next year. I think we will do Miquon most days and MEP and then throw in some Singapore and RS ideas.