Yikes! Please help me determine what grade my dd is completing this year.

[Christy B]

In the spring of 2008, dd's math test scores (testing at 4th grade) were rather dismal. That, coupled with the fact that we wanted to hold her back in order to enroll in a particular class at the local Christian school (which never happened!), led us to decide to have her "repeat" fourth grade for the 2008-2010. Which was a good thing, since she was seriously ill from Thanksgiving to Easter during that school year.

 

She started this year as a 5th grader. She started the year in Saxon 65, but is now working in LoF Fractions and doing well. We also started the year with Hake Grammar 5, but it became so overwhelming to her that we have set it aside (it's an impressive program, to be sure, and imo well above "typical" 5th grade level work; it's also dry as dust and the lessons take f-o-r-e-v-e-r to complete). I plan to finish out the rest of the year using the writing lessons from Hake Grammar 5 and some printable grammar worksheets I've found online.

 

History, science, and literature are at a solid 6th grade level (if not higher).

 

Just in the last month, she has started expressing frustration at being a grade "behind" in school. Now, mind you, she has an August birthday, and is rather small for her age. Also, being the younger child in the family, SHE IS MY BABY and I am in no hurry for her to grow up. ;) There were definite advantages, IMO, to having her a year "behind"; I think her test scores will improve, it is convenient to have the girls exactly four grade levels apart as far as staying on topic together in history, and -- perhaps most importantly -- it's going to give her an extra year of eligibility for dual enrollment in community college. That said, I don't want to discourage her or frustrate her in being "behind" (I'm afriad she's starting to think of herself as being not as smart as the other kids). She's especially sensitive to the fact that she is moving up to the 7th/8th grade Sunday school and youth group next year; it seems important to her to really *be* in 7th grade.

 

I think that we could easily complete a 6th grade grammar workbook before the end of the year, and perhaps a 6th grade test prep workbook as well. So I guess I'm kind of leaning toward doing that and testing at a 6th grade level this year, and "promoting" her to 7th grade next year. ::sniff, sniff:: She just seems to young to be a 7th grader!

 

Or should I just keep her grade level as-is, take advantage of the extra year of community college, and tell her to get over worrying about being behind? I'm afraid that is going to set up a BIG problem come senior year, when most of her friends are graduating.

 

Or should I test at 5th grade this year, and then next year decide whether to test at 6th grade or 7th grade?:confused:

[Renee in NC]

Christy - call her whatever grade you want. In NC it doesn't matter at all what grade level you test her in. You aren't tied to grade level by grade tested.

[Haiku]

What grade would she be in if you had chosen to send her to school? Can she do work at that grade level? If so, that should be her grade.

 

Tara

[Ellie]

I am firm in my opinion that when it's necessary to specify a grade level, it should be the one the dc would be in if they were in school. That includes ordering standardized tests. Those tests compare children in the same grade level to a normed group of children, all of whom would have been different ages--some "young" for their grade and some not, some working at grade level, some not. If you order a different grade level, based on your own subjective thoughts about where your dd might or might not be instead of just going with her "official" grade level, you won't get a fair comparison. And that's the point of standardized tests.

 

I say this as someone with a July birthday, BTW. I never heard that a summer birthday made anyone "young" for her grade until I started posting on this forum.:)

[Christy B]

If dd were in school, she would be in 6th grade this year, 7th grade next year. It seemed right at the time to have her repeat 4th grade, but now I'm questioning our reasons and how it happened. We "held her back" largely due to poor math scores (which I now question, because I think the testing environment was the biggest problem -- she tested for the first time at a school, one that we were contemplating sending her to, and she was completely stressed) and wanted to line her up for a particular class at that school (a very small class; the class she "should" have gone in to was large and already had the reputation as a problem class). As it turns out, we ended up homeschooling and have no plans to send her to that school.

 

The other delay was the sickness that followed in her "second year" of 4th grade; that was unfortunate but honestly, I'm not sure it warranted repeating the year.

 

Now that her math skills are up to grade level, I honestly think she's working at a 6th grade level. She is not excelling in math, but she is at grade level (I think -- gracious, how can you tell when there are such huge differences from one publisher to the next!?!) Math will never be her best or favorite subject, kwim? But certainly she is on track to complete LoF Fractions, then Decimals and Percents, by the end of the next school year. Which means she could use the new Pre-Algebra in 8th grade, and do Algebra I in 9th. The only "advantage" to keeping her a grade level behind is that she would do Algebra I in 8th grade but that is NOT a big deal to me, as she is very unlikely to pursue math or science. I don't question that all of her other work is at a 6th grade level. Goodness, her reading and vocabulary are probably easily already 7th/8th grade (we won't talk about spelling).

 

Her friends her age are in 6th grade. Her Sunday school age is 6th grade (she has been in a combined 5th/6th grade class in SS, which is why the delay hasn't bothered her, until she started thinking about moving up in the fall). She does have one very close friend, a September birthday, who is also a year "behind" -- that's one reason I haven't really noticed or thought about dd being behind -- she wasn't alone. But I think her friend is also starting to -- resent? notice? be bothered by? -- the grade level.

 

So, I think I'm talking myself into getting her "at grade level". The question is, do I order a 5th or 6th grade test this year? Surely the adjustment needs to be made well before 9th grade.

[Christy B]

I am firm in my opinion that when it's necessary to specify a grade level, it should be the one the dc would be in if they were in school. That includes ordering standardized tests. Those tests compare children in the same grade level to a normed group of children, all of whom would have been different ages--some "young" for their grade and some not, some working at grade level, some not. If you order a different grade level, based on your own subjective thoughts about where your dd might or might not be instead of just going with her "official" grade level, you won't get a fair comparison. And that's the point of standardized tests.

 

I say this as someone with a July birthday, BTW. I never heard that a summer birthday made anyone "young" for her grade until I started posting on this forum.:)

 

So, we tested at 4th grade for 2007-2008, and 4th grade again for 2008-2009. What grade level should I order for 2009-2010? 5th or 6th? How odd will it look to have two 4th grade tests and no 5th grade test?

[Haiku]

If you decide she's in 6th grade, get the sixth grade test.

 

Tara

[Chris in VA]

I'd order 5th grade, since that is the grade you say she is in.

 

I held back my ds in ps but allowed him to stay with his age mates in Sunday School. It did cause a problem for him when he was a 19yo senior and all his friends from youth group (some who were 17 with summer birthdays) were off to college a year before him. (We homeschooled high school only.) However, we "solved" his ego problem by letting him do a summer semester after his Jr year and finish his Sr year in Dec, so he technically graduated the same year as his age mates. It meant a lot to him. He ended up using the rest of that year to work full-time, get his GED (he had to, for college admissions) and take 3 CC classes (tho he only passed one and dropped one, failed the 3rd...).

 

If she's going to do CC classes, the difference shouldn't bother her; after all, when her Sr. year comes around, and her friends are starting college, she can just say she's also in college, and has been for several years....:D

[PeterPan]

Is her friend, who also has the summer birthday, moving up to the new SS class? Seems to me there's a difference between age-related moves and academics. SS is an age-peer thing.

 

If she's been doing 5th gr work this year, you'd probably be wise to do the 5th gr test. Since you did the 4th gr testing two years in a row, was there a significant change in her scores? I'm not sure how you can say she would have been in 6th gr in school this year, since you said she did poorly on the placement test at the school and would have been placed in 5th. Not trying to quibble, just observing.

 

I think your long-term track is the big issue here. When do you want her to graduate? I'd sit down and talk with your dh (or whomever) about those more significant issues and come to some conclusion that you can live with. I don't see why it has to be all one way or the other. She can stay with her peers in Sunday School and still be called the lower grade. She tests for what she studied for. You don't cram, because cramming accomplishes nothing. Any dc, working every day, most of the months, will accomplish more than one grade level of material just fine, with no pressure at all.

 

The other thing you could do is to call her a half grade. Seriously. Let her start calling herself that next grade up in January of each year. That gives her the emotional thing, but it's not so horribly binding. If you get to the end and need that extra year of high school, you have it. If you get there and don't, she just goes to the cc full-time and graduates early. If all you're needing is to help her emotionally, pick a new date for your year to start and use it. :)

[Ellie]

So, we tested at 4th grade for 2007-2008, and 4th grade again for 2008-2009. What grade level should I order for 2009-2010? 5th or 6th? How odd will it look to have two 4th grade tests and no 5th grade test?

Sixth, because that's the grade she'd be in if she were in school.

 

To whom would it look odd to have two 4th grade tests?

 

And this discussion is why I recommend keeping dc at grade level when it's necessary to choose a grade level for things like testing, or even for Sunday school.

[HollyinNNV]

My personal opinion and observations:

 

Grade levels seem to be a factor around 7th and 9th grade, because that seems to be when the work load bumps up dramatically. YMMV. The students I have known who were young for their grade, or academically weak, seemed to flounder in 7th and/or 9th grade. Those who had parents that were sensitive to their weaknesses in 7th, and "pandered" to those weaknesses, finally watched their kids flop in 9th.

 

Therefore, I think I'd wait to make any decisions about moving to a higher grade until at least 9th or even 10th grade.

 

JMHO,

Holly

[TxMama]

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Edited February 5, 2010 by Wendy B.

[Christy B]

I didn't understand the comment that it is "it is convenient to have the girls exactly four grade levels apart as far as staying on topic together in history". My older kids were a year a part and we stayed on topic together for history/etc. and my younger kids are 3 years a part and when the younger gets old enough we will stay on topic together for history/etc.

 

Convenient, in that we do a four year history rotation, ala WTM. So, 5th and 9th being Ancient, 6th and 10th being Middle Ages, etc . . . worked out very neatly.

[Christy B]

Is her friend, who also has the summer birthday, moving up to the new SS class? Seems to me there's a difference between age-related moves and academics. SS is an age-peer thing.

 

If she's been doing 5th gr work this year, you'd probably be wise to do the 5th gr test. Since you did the 4th gr testing two years in a row, was there a significant change in her scores? I'm not sure how you can say she would have been in 6th gr in school this year, since you said she did poorly on the placement test at the school and would have been placed in 5th. Not trying to quibble, just observing.

 

I think your long-term track is the big issue here. When do you want her to graduate? I'd sit down and talk with your dh (or whomever) about those more significant issues and come to some conclusion that you can live with. I don't see why it has to be all one way or the other. She can stay with her peers in Sunday School and still be called the lower grade. She tests for what she studied for. You don't cram, because cramming accomplishes nothing. Any dc, working every day, most of the months, will accomplish more than one grade level of material just fine, with no pressure at all.

 

The other thing you could do is to call her a half grade. Seriously. Let her start calling herself that next grade up in January of each year. That gives her the emotional thing, but it's not so horribly binding. If you get to the end and need that extra year of high school, you have it. If you get there and don't, she just goes to the cc full-time and graduates early. If all you're needing is to help her emotionally, pick a new date for your year to start and use it. :)

 

Yes, the move up to the new SS class is strictly age based. We have quite a few homeschoolers in our church, so they (wisely, imo) made a hard and fast age/date cut off for SS promotion. It matters not one whit, except where dd's feelings are concerned (which matters quite a lot to me, but you get my point).

 

She did poorly on her testing (in math only -- all other subjects were at or well above grade level) in the spring of 2007. We "adjusted" her grade level for the 2008-2009 school year. She did quite well in her testing in the spring of 2008, and at the time, I was inclined to think that meant that repeating 4th was a good move.

 

In hindsight, I think what it meant was that one year, she had a bad testing experience in math, and by the next year, she had made up the difference. I'm starting to wonder how much the school situation factored into the whole deal (I'm starting to think we were being manipulated into trying to fill that small class). In other words, had it been strictly a homeschool decision, or had she been in a typical public school, I doubt very much that we would have felt it necessary to repeat an entire grade level for the sake of one poor math score.

[TxMama]

bb

Edited February 5, 2010 by Wendy B.