s/o counting on fingers... so now what?

[kls126s]

Ok, so my dd does still rely on counting on with her fingers for any math facts that she doesn't have memorized, and apparently I lose my mommy crown because I taught her to do that thinking that it was something she'd outgrow once she had them all memorized. :rolleyes:

 

SO.... how do I break that habit? I have the RS games set and we were going to spend the summer playing those games. Anything else someone could recommend? How do I explain the change in approach, and how do I enforce it? I have popsicle sticks and have bundled them into 10s and 100s - that's how we learned carrying - but how do I use that to break the fingers habit?

 

Keep in mind I'm not an intuitive mathy type myself, so you have to give me the math instructions as if you're talking to an English major. ;)

[Halcyon]

Interested in this thread! We're starting the RIght Start games too....I am also going to de-emphasize 'speed' in his math drills and re-emphasize technique, helping him as he goes. Personally, I think it's a bad habit that should be broken, but it will take reminding and gentle attention.

[hsmom]

all ears here. He taught himself to do this, I have been trying to break it from day one. No luck yet.

[KAR120C]

Ok, so my dd does still rely on counting on with her fingers for any math facts that she doesn't have memorized, and apparently I lose my mommy crown because I taught her to do that thinking that it was something she'd outgrow once she had them all memorized. :rolleyes:

 

SO.... how do I break that habit?

But I agree with those that said it's not the fingers but the counting-up that makes the problem. What we did for that (actually before it was a problem.... but I think this is what prevented it) was "chisanbop" finger counting and a lot of abacus practice.

 

Chisanbop is still counting on your fingers, but instead of each finger being 1, your right hand fingers are 1 and right thumb is 5... and then your left hand fingers are 10 and left thumb is 50. It's basically using your fingers as an abacus. Then, we had several different abacuses (abaci?) around, mostly Japanese sorobans. The most useful one was the soroban I made just for grocery shopping, using pipecleaner rods so the beads didn't clear themselves all the time. For a couple years his job was to keep track of the grocery bill with that as we shopped, and then check his answer against the receipt.

 

If you don't want to make it a grocery shopping thing, the "classic" soroban exercise for addition facts is to add 123456789 over and over until it gets to 1111111101. It's self-checking (since you know the sum you're aiming for and it's easy to recognize), and it makes you regroup over and over in all the different combinations of +10 and +5.

 

The combination of abacus and matching finger-counting exercises doesn't prevent using fingers, but it does make it extremely efficient. You're actually doing the regrouping in your head, but you're "holding" the numbers on your fingers so you don't lose your place. And by either doing the 123456789 exercise or attaching the practice to something routine like grocery shopping, you avoid having to make up problems all the time.

[pageta]

Drill, drill, drill. When I was in school, I had a teacher that made us know all of each set of facts (addition, subtraction, multiplication, division) in three minutes (for each set). Once you know them that well, you don't have to think about them anymore. We are working through the math facts one group at a time - +0 one week, +1 the next week, etc. I have flash cards, and if he doesn't say the answer within 3 seconds, I say it. We do that four days a week and by the end of the week, he knows that set of facts. It will take us about 13 week go to all they way from zero to 12.

 

My opinion is that math facts are for math like letters of the alphabet are for are for reading. It's great to know how to sound out the word "and", but once you know it, you know it, and you can read fluently. In order to do math fluently in higher levels (such as two-digit addition and beyond), you need to know those math facts. If you don't know your basic math facts, math will always be a struggle.

[kalanamak]

but how do I use that to break the fingers habit?

 

 

 

I'm making wild guesses here: fill up the hands with Wrap Ups. Start with the one plus and reward. If you use your fingers, you'll drop your thread.

 

Put a hundreds chart next to kid and have kid follow up the chart with eyes.

 

Hold hands (both) face to face and sing the math facts. 1 plus 1 is 2 (now raise your voice a half note) 2 plus 2 is 4 (or 1 plus 2 is 3) etc. Do it ascending on the staircase, going up a step with each fact.

 

Card games, like math facts war, again to occupy the hands.

 

Skip counting with an abacus, then without. If child can't count by two, you say one, very quietly, and child says TWO, then you say three very quietly and child says FOUR. Once solid, do the threes.

 

Old fashioned peer pressure. Games of Sum Swamp with a trusted peer who does not finger count.

 

Hot Dots, to give the hands something to do.

 

These are what I would have tried with my kiddo.....of course, with him, I would have done all of these, make sure he was able, and then have to threaten him with no dessert if he used his hands. But that's just my kid.

 

HTH

[prairie rose]

I don't know what was said in the original thread but I can think of habits a lot worse than counting on fingers at the age of 7. I think she still has plenty of time to drop the habit when she's ready and can figure out the answer without using her fingers. I would rather she took her time and get the right answer, than try to get the answer quickly and make silly mistakes. Speed comes with practice. My oldest, now almost 12, was allowed to count on his fingers as long as he needed. He's known his addition facts for a few years now without counting on his fingers. I can't really remember when exactly he stopped using his fingers but I know it's been maybe 3 or 4 years, sometime around the age of 8 or 9 maybe? I never told him he couldn't use his fingers anymore, I just figured eventually he'd be able to do it without and he did. His 2 years younger brother is the same way, hasn't used his fingers in a couple of years and their sister, who is 8.5yo, only occasionally uses her fingers when she's a bit unsure and wants to double check.

 

Part of my philosophy on the subject has to do with the fact that I was forced to stop using my fingers around 2nd grade or so. Problem was, I wasn't ready to give up the concrete learning aspect of using manipulatives (my fingers when no other aid was provided). Maybe other kids my age were but I wasn't ready to move from concrete to visual yet. As a result I began to hate math, it was too hard for me to do it the way they wanted me to and they would not allow me to do it the way that made sense to me even though I could always come up with the right answer and when I tried to do it their way I often got it wrong. I remember many tears over math from that point on in my life until late in high school when I was finally ready to learn math visually. I fully believe that I would have been ready much earlier if I hadn't been pushed to learn visually before I was ready.

 

Now, all that said, I do teach my children "tricks" to remembering math facts. +0, +1 and +2 are all pretty easy to remember and even if you have to count the +2s, you can still come up with the answer fairly quickly. When learning doubles, 1+1 through 5+5 are pretty easy for them to just remember. For 6+6, I have them show me 6 fingers. Then I tell them to show me 6 more. We giggle over the fact that they don't have enough fingers and then I hold up 6 fingers. I point out that we are both holding up one whole hand of fingers so we have 5+5 on just those hands and we already know that's 10 and on our other hands we each have 1 finger up and we know 1+1 is 2 and since it's very easy to add 10+2 they quicly realize the answer is 12, without actually counting their fingers. I show them that this works with all the doubles from 6+6 to 9+9. Then we work through doubles plus 1 (easy if they can figure out the doubles and these problems practice the doubles problems at the same time)

 

We play Go To The Dump and other games that practice making 10. Adding 10 to a number is pretty easy and if they can add 10, adding 9 or 8 is pretty easy. Just add 10 and take either 1 or 2 steps back.

 

Lastly, I show them how to "break" numbers to make things easier. I find it easiest to teach this with MUS blocks but fingers work too. Say you want to add 8+5. We haven't covered any tricks yet that would help with this so I ask them if they could make a 10 from this. If they can't see that they could take 2 from the 5, I help them. I have them trade the 5 MUS block for 2 blocks that would allow them to give 2 to the 8 to trade for a 10. Once they've traded the blocks it's easy to see that the answer is 13. Then I teach them that if they come to a problem that doesn't seem to have any kind of trick to it, look for a 10 even if they have to break a number to do it.

 

If any of this results in having to give up my good mommy and homeschool teacher crown, so be it. Rote memorization of math facts in early elementary is not a hill I willing to die on and I will take accuracy over speed.

Edited January 24, 2010 by prairie rose

[8filltheheart]

Math It tricks.

 

http://www.redshift.com/~bonajo/mmathadd.htm

[Haiku]

SO.... how do I break that habit? I have the RS games set and we were going to spend the summer playing those games. Anything else someone could recommend? How do I explain the change in approach, and how do I enforce it?

 

My suggestions would be:

 

1) Don't wait until summer. Start now. The longer she counts on her fingers, the harder the habit will be to break.

 

2) Tell her that, just like she's always learning, so are you, and you learned that there is a better way to do math counting on fingers. Now you're going to share it with you.

 

3) Enforce the no-fingers rule while you are learning the new way and any time you are playing the math games. Don't worry about the rest of the time to start with. Eventually, when she feels comfortable with the new way, the fingers method should fall by the wayside.

 

Tara

[kls126s]

If any of this results in having to give up my good mommy and homeschool teacher crown, so be it. Rote memorization of math facts in early elementary is not a hill I willing to die on and I will take accuracy over speed.

 

That's pretty much my thought as well. She's not intuitive about math, and is a very visual learner, so we still rely on manipulatives a lot. That said, I think I'm realizing that -

 

...I agree with those that said it's not the fingers but the counting-up that makes the problem.

 

I'll go through the RS games box this weekend and try to decide where to start (just looking in that box is a bit overwhelming! :001_huh:) and we won't wait until the summer. We do need to learn a more fundamental approach to numbers as 5s and 10s and breaking and regrouping. Both of us, frankly. :glare:

 

Appreciate all the comments and links here. I'll go through and look at them closer.

[2cents]

Math-It!

It is pricey and all you really need are the tricks so I'd search the net and see if you can find them somewhere before purchasing. If you do want to buy, I'd check Ebay for a good deal.

[Karen in CO]

 

 

 

I'll go through the RS games box this weekend and try to decide where to start (just looking in that box is a bit overwhelming! :001_huh:) and we won't wait until the summer. We do need to learn a more fundamental approach to numbers as 5s and 10s and breaking and regrouping. Both of us, frankly. :glare:

 

 

 

A great game to start with is Go to The Dump. It is fun to play and reinforces the making ten idea. Your dd can use the abacus when she first starts playing. It is similar to Go Fish, and it is enough fun that my older dd is looking forward to playing with her sister.

[kls126s]

A great game to start with is Go to The Dump. It is fun to play and reinforces the making ten idea. Your dd can use the abacus when she first starts playing. It is similar to Go Fish, and it is enough fun that my older dd is looking forward to playing with her sister.

 

Thanks, Karen. I'll look for that one. I think I remember an earlier thread on which games to start with, so I'll go find that too.

[Halcyon]

Wanted to update on this--it's been...what...a week since I posted about this and I have been working with DS pretty consistently about changing his approach, learning the Singapore Method, playing dice games, card games, etc..and it's working! Already he's rarely using his fingers (at least when I'm watching him :)

 

Thank you!

[kls126s]

Wanted to update on this--it's been...what...a week since I posted about this and I have been working with DS pretty consistently about changing his approach, learning the Singapore Method, playing dice games, card games, etc..and it's working! Already he's rarely using his fingers (at least when I'm watching him :)

 

Thank you!

 

Same here!

 

We spent all of last week doing RS numeration and addition games and I too feel like my daughter made some strides. I was going to do it for two weeks, but I am going back to regular math lessons at half speed for this week and then keep drilling on the breaking/numeration concepts.

 

I feel optimistic.

 

Anyone else working on this?

[Halcyon]

That's wonderful! I am happy for you!

 

Keep on truckin :)