I'm having such a hard time with dd-so discouraged

[happyWImom]

(sorry this is so long-but I need advice)

 

 

Dd is almost 8, and she's the typical "When she was good, she was very

very good, but when she was bad she was horrid" girl.

 

When everything goes her way, she's a delight. But otherwise, she's a problem. She complains about everyone and everything "he's making noise, I can't concentrate when he's doing that, etc..." And there is always the constant questioning of me, and arguing, both during school & out of school.

 

Sigh... It's soooo hard with her. Ds has a short attention span, but he never gives me the attitude the way she does.

 

She is really sensitive and takes everything personally and so much to heart, too. Her way of being hurt though is to get angry, so it makes things worse. I love her to death, and she just tears my heart. I feel guilty half the time, because I feel I'm handling her the wrong way, that I'm too harsh in what I say and do, but then I think, how can I be if we still have all of these behavior issues?

 

We do time outs, I take away privileges, we pray, you name it. But she always gets upset when she thinks I'm "mad" at her. Yes, I am getting frustrated. I don't know what to do-especially about school. I have been so committed to homeschooling them all the way-I feel like that's my purpose. So what now?

 

Anyone else have problems like this with their dd's? What do you do?

[Chris in VA]

Is she sensorially sensitive, too?

[Rosy]

How firm are you with her?

When she thinks you're mad and gets upset, do you back down?

Are you able to control your tone of voice when you're disciplining her?

Are there consequences for arguing, questioning, etc?

 

I wonder if she might be using her anger to manipulate you. If she knows that throwing a tantrum will help her get her way, or at least an emotional reaction out of you, that can be incentive for some kids.

 

I have one kid who thinks she knows everything, that her way is right and that she can voice her opinions at will. I have another who is extreme and volatile in his reactions to pretty much anything. So I'll be watching this thread with interest. :)

[Parrothead]

What happens when she complains about him making too much noise? Do you tell him to be quieter or do you have her move to where there is less noise?

 

When she tries to argue with your authority do you argue back or walk away? You can't argue with one person doing the arguing.

 

Do you answer her questioning of you and your authority or do you give her The Look so she stops with the questioning?

 

How would you react to an adult who acts like your dd does now? Would you cater to them or walk away?

 

Let her know you are upset, angry, mad. And let her deal with it.

 

What does she do when she is angry because she hasn't gotten her way? Is she having temper tantrums at 7 years old?

 

People of any age behave badly because they are allowed to or because they have learned that it gets them what they want.

 

ETA: I say all of the above as a parent of a child with sensory issues.

Edited January 6, 2010 by Parrothead

[Corraleno]

Is she sensorially sensitive, too?

 

:iagree:

I would do some research on Sensory Processing Disorder (sometimes called Sensory Integration Disorder). Your DD sounds just like my DS11; discovering that he had sensory issues was a huge revelation for us. Anxiety, irritability, and defensiveness can be caused by SPD.

 

If she has sensory issues, then this is not a "discipline" problem, it's a sensory management problem, and it's very important for your DD to feel like you are on her team, trying to help her cope, rather than punishing her for something she finds confusing and overwhelming.

 

Jackie

[Stacy in NJ]

even you.

 

Let me guess; she misbehaves, you get angry, she gets angry because you're angry? Something like that? Her anger and hurt feelings at your anger and hurt feelings are a manipulation. It's okay for you to get angry when she misbehaves; it's not okay for her to use your anger to make you feel guilty and manipulate you.

[mom2att]

Three books: read them--they will change how you react to your child, and in turn change your child.

 

1. The Explosive Child by Ross W. Greene

 

2. Raising Your Spirited Child by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka

 

3. The Sensory-Sensitive Child by Karen A. Smith and Karen R. Gouze

[Dawn E]

She sounds a lot like my own dd who will be 8 in March. Dd is an extremely bright child. My dd is also going through a defiant stage with me, so I'm thinking it could be a developmental stage as well. She also has perfectionist tendencies: "Oh this is awful! I'm no good at this at all!" We learned early on that we shouldn't praise her for being "smart", but for being a hard-worker. We try to help her see that messing up is just a part of learning. She's getting better about that, but still at times takes it very personally when I have to have her make corrections.

 

My own dd does better having some control over school. I started this week giving her a checklist with all of her requirements for the day at the start of the school day. This has helped with the flow of the day so much, and attitude has not been the issue that it was. I allow her to do as much as she can independently (I'm close by always) and I help whenever she asks for help.

 

We also just started 1.2.3 Magic. I know a lot of people disagree with the counting aspect, but for us it is helpful. It gives her the opportunity to get control of her emotions. It is helping her train her own will. Of course, there are times when she immediately gets a time-out (hitting her brother, willful disobedience, etc.) but for the habits she has built with talking back and whining, this method works well.

 

Consistency is the key. Isn't it with everything? :) It is so hard, but I do think they will pass through this stage. The sensory thing is something to keep in mind, and possibly look into. My dd is also very sensitive--emotionally and physically. She has a heightened sense of smell and can't tolerate clothes that are itchy in anyway. I think some children, particularly academically gifted ones, have sensory issues that are not necessarily indicative of a disorder. However, if the sensory issues are the primary problem, or are causing the arguments, I would check into it further.

[happyWImom]

What happens when she complains about him making too much noise? Do you tell him to be quieter or do you have her move to where there is less noise?

If he really is being disruptive, I stop it, but I tell her that we are not able or going to be completely quiet. I tell her I need to work with him just as I need to work with her, and it involves talking. If it's not school & she's complaining, I do tell her if it bothers her she can go somewhere else.

 

When she tries to argue with your authority do you argue back or walk away? You can't argue with one person doing the arguing.

I tell her that I am the parent & she is the child, and that she needs to obey me.

Do you answer her questioning of you and your authority or do you give her The Look so she stops with the questioning?I probably should just give her The Look-but it probably wouldn't work! Instead, I go on and on explaining why she shouldn't be questioning me. Hmmmm....

 

How would you react to an adult who acts like your dd does now? Would you cater to them or walk away?Good question. It's bad that I don't know, right?

 

Let her know you are upset, angry, mad. And let her deal with it. I do, but then I feel guilty because she will cry or get angry. Then she feels like she's bad, mean, you name it.

 

What does she do when she is angry because she hasn't gotten her way? Is she having temper tantrums at 7 years old? Not total tantrums, but it varies.

 

People of any age behave badly because they are allowed to or because they have learned that it gets them what they want. I know, I know. I never thought I would be an enabler. I have to figure out the right way to deal with this/handle her.

 

ETA: I say all of the above as a parent of a child with sensory issues.

 

I am going to check out the sensory issue idea.

 

Thanks for taking the time here.:001_smile:

[i.love.lucy]

 

She is really sensitive and takes everything personally and so much to heart, too. Her way of being hurt though is to get angry, so it makes things worse. I love her to death, and she just tears my heart. I feel guilty half the time, because I feel I'm handling her the wrong way, that I'm too harsh in what I say and do, but then I think, how can I be if we still have all of these behavior issues?

 

We do time outs, I take away privileges, we pray, you name it. But she always gets upset when she thinks I'm "mad" at her. Yes, I am getting frustrated. I don't know what to do-especially about school. I have been so committed to homeschooling them all the way-I feel like that's my purpose. So what now?

Did you crawl inside my head this morning? My dd attends a one day enrichment program (art, music, pe, etc). We had a huge blow-up this morning because her pants didn't fit right, and her shoes weren't tied right, and she forgot her recorder, and she was all in a twist about having missed the 2 weeks before Christmas break. She fell apart and I have to admit I got mad at her. Her personality is so different from mine and I just don't get all this anxiety over nothing!

:iagree:

I would do some research on Sensory Processing Disorder (sometimes called Sensory Integration Disorder). Your DD sounds just like my DS11; discovering that he had sensory issues was a huge revelation for us. Anxiety, irritability, and defensiveness can be caused by SPD.

 

If she has sensory issues, then this is not a "discipline" problem, it's a sensory management problem, and it's very important for your DD to feel like you are on her team, trying to help her cope, rather than punishing her for something she finds confusing and overwhelming.

 

Jackie

I have friends with kids on the Autism spectrum that they say have sensory issues. Can this be true for a kid who does not have Austism? Sorry if I sound dumb. :001_huh: My dh is an anxious, worrier type and I always assumed she got it from him. He's now on Paxil and is fine, so why wouldn't I think I should look for more helps for my dd than just getting mad at her for being so sensitive?

Three books: read them--they will change how you react to your child, and in turn change your child.

 

1. The Explosive Child by Ross W. Greene

 

2. Raising Your Spirited Child by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka

 

3. The Sensory-Sensitive Child by Karen A. Smith and Karen R. Gouze

I started to read Spirited Child and that didn't seem to fit. Then I read Highly Sensitive Child and that didn't fit either. Maybe Sensory-Sensitive Child? I always assumed that sensory sensitivity manifests itself in sensitivities to environment mostly, like food texture, temperature, noise. She does have the noise one to some degree, and is very sensitive about her clothes fitting just right, or shoes being just right. She can not do school if her brother and I are talking. I have to create a bubble for her to work in! She gets distracted very easily.

 

Aside from the clothes and distractions issue, her biggest thing is emotional sensitivity. She falls apart if I correct her behavior because she says I'm "mad at her". She gets her feelings hurt very easily, is very tenderhearted. Sometimes a scary image from a commercial on tv can stay with her and cause her not to be able to sleep (but I suppose that's any kid). She gets very anxious about new situations and needs to know exactly what is going to happen and that she's prepared.

 

Does this sound like sensory sensitivity? I hope the OP and I can get to the bottom of this!

[Pippen]

Three books: read them--they will change how you react to your child, and in turn change your child.

 

1. The Explosive Child by Ross W. Greene

 

2. Raising Your Spirited Child by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka

 

3. The Sensory-Sensitive Child by Karen A. Smith and Karen R. Gouze

 

There's a book out that I would add to this list that I think is very helpful for parents who are looking for answers:

 

"What Your Explosive Child Is Trying to Tell You: Discovering the Pathway from Symptoms to Solutions" by Dr. Douglas Riley

 

Here's a good intro article on sensory issues:

http://www.tsbvi.edu/Outreach/seehear/fall97/sensory.htm

[Parrothead]

Did you crawl inside my head this morning? My dd attends a one day enrichment program (art, music, pe, etc). We had a huge blow-up this morning because her pants didn't fit right, and her shoes weren't tied right, and she forgot her recorder, and she was all in a twist about having missed the 2 weeks before Christmas break. She fell apart and I have to admit I got mad at her. Her personality is so different from mine and I just don't get all this anxiety over nothing!

Yup, that sounds like a sensory issue. My dd has problems if her sock aren't on her feet just so. Tags are a big issue here also. Things have to feel right to be comfortable. I asked dd to describe what she feels with tags and she said it is like being poked with a fork all day. Who can live like that? The easiest thing to do is to cut tags out.

I have friends with kids on the Autism spectrum that they say have sensory issues. Can this be true for a kid who does not have Austism? Sorry if I sound dumb. :001_huh: My dh is an anxious, worrier type and I always assumed she got it from him. He's now on Paxil and is fine, so why wouldn't I think I should look for more helps for my dd than just getting mad at her for being so sensitive?

Yes, children without any other issues can have sensory issues. For some children sensory issues rule their lives. For others sensory issues are a bothersome nuisance that need to be tended to daily - sort of like chores.

 

I started to read Spirited Child and that didn't seem to fit. Then I read Highly Sensitive Child and that didn't fit either. Maybe Sensory-Sensitive Child? I always assumed that sensory sensitivity manifests itself in sensitivities to environment mostly, like food texture, temperature, noise. She does have the noise one to some degree, and is very sensitive about her clothes fitting just right, or shoes being just right. She can not do school if her brother and I are talking. I have to create a bubble for her to work in! She gets distracted very easily.

She may have sensory issues to auditory stimuli and a touch issue. It may be something mild enough that you can work with her to accommodate her or she may need a bit of OT.

 

Aside from the clothes and distractions issue, her biggest thing is emotional sensitivity. She falls apart if I correct her behavior because she says I'm "mad at her". She gets her feelings hurt very easily, is very tenderhearted. Sometimes a scary image from a commercial on tv can stay with her and cause her not to be able to sleep (but I suppose that's any kid). She gets very anxious about new situations and needs to know exactly what is going to happen and that she's prepared.

Some of that may be sensory but it may be learned behavior. What do you do when she falls apart and thinks you are mad at her?

 

Does this sound like sensory sensitivity? I hope the OP and I can get to the bottom of this!

Check on line for information about sensory integration disorder.

[Parrothead]

What happens when she complains about him making too much noise? Do you tell him to be quieter or do you have her move to where there is less noise?

If he really is being disruptive, I stop it, but I tell her that we are not able or going to be completely quiet. I tell her I need to work with him just as I need to work with her, and it involves talking. If it's not school & she's complaining, I do tell her if it bothers her she can go somewhere else.

I was wondering if it was something like just trying to get little brother in trouble. Being bothered by other people is usually a sign to move some place else. Adults do this all the time. Either they move or become offended and file a lawsuit. Let her move to a room where she is comfortable. But also make sure she isn't dawdling while she is alone.

 

When she tries to argue with your authority do you argue back or walk away? You can't argue with one person doing the arguing.

I tell her that I am the parent & she is the child, and that she needs to obey me.

At least you aren't arguing back. When you argue with a child you have lost control - and they know that.

 

Do you answer her questioning of you and your authority or do you give her The Look so she stops with the questioning?I probably should just give her The Look-but it probably wouldn't work! Instead, I go on and on explaining why she shouldn't be questioning me. Hmmmm....

You should only have to explain who is in charge once then consequences of some type should become involved. Of course you will be tested a few weeks/months/years later to see if the explanation is still valid. Again, explain once and move on.

 

How would you react to an adult who acts like your dd does now? Would you cater to them or walk away?Good question. It's bad that I don't know, right?

;)

 

 

Let her know you are upset, angry, mad. And let her deal with it. I do, but then I feel guilty because she will cry or get angry. Then she feels like she's bad, mean, you name it.

You can't control how someone else feels. Did you ever get angry at your mother? Did you ever cry because of something she did/said or as a result of a consequence? It happens. Probably to every child. You can feel guilty, but don't let the children know. Unless it was some hideous mistake like punishing the wrong child.

 

What does she do when she is angry because she hasn't gotten her way? Is she having temper tantrums at 7 years old? Not total tantrums, but it varies.

You know that best thing to do with tantrums of any type is to put the tantrum where it can't be seen (the bedroom) or walk away from the tantrum. Who wants to subject herself to that kind of behavior? It is embarrassing.

 

People of any age behave badly because they are allowed to or because they have learned that it gets them what they want. I know, I know. I never thought I would be an enabler. I have to figure out the right way to deal with this/handle her.

Sometimes that takes trial and error. If Correction A doesn't work move on to Correction B, C, D until you find one. Then stick to the solution that works like glue.

 

As for kids with sensory issues, they need certain allowances to be made, but it is not an excuse for bad behavior. I know a lady who has a 5-year old boy (he will be 6 in March). She is forever saying "But he is only 5," as an excuse not to discipline him. I've asked her at what age does she want him to learn not to talk back, slam the door, kick the dog, etc. Along the same line if a child has a sensory issue with loud noises, at what point do you make them stop yelling at you.

Edited January 6, 2010 by Parrothead

[happyWImom]

Aside from the clothes and distractions issue, her biggest thing is emotional sensitivity. She falls apart if I correct her behavior because she says I'm "mad at her". She gets her feelings hurt very easily, is very tenderhearted. Sometimes a scary image from a commercial on tv can stay with her and cause her not to be able to sleep (but I suppose that's any kid). She gets very anxious about new situations and needs to know exactly what is going to happen and that she's prepared.

 

Does this sound like sensory sensitivity? I hope the OP and I can get to the bottom of this!

 

My dd is the same way emotionally!! She is very anxious and a worrier, and is very tenderhearted also. I'm so glad it's not just us! (Not that I want you to go through this :001_smile:) I hope to get some good advice for the both of us. Then I start second guessing my curriculum "Is this the best thing for her, should I not do both dc together, is something gentle like Oak Meadow the answer?".