What's Going on at a Nearby Elementary School

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

As a rough analogy -- if there is a town where many of the surgeries are being botched, is the solution to have an army of volunteer medics to assist ?

 

Ah but your analogy does not hold at all! If it did, how come *we*, with no degree, can teach children to read???

 

To be a surgeon takes real knowledge, and a 'real' degree. To teach a child does not 'demand' a degree. Many many generations were taught by people with no degree. Many generations died from being operated on by people with no degree!

[Perry]

Sure, I understand that a tutor could be greatly helpful. But I find something very, very sad about this straight-faced appeal that "something must be done" and the happy claim that a tutor who's received three hours of training can greatly improve these students' reading skills -- clearly, there is a very big problem. I just don't think a volunteer corps should be expected to teach children to read. This is the JOB of the teachers.

 

I agree that it should be the job of the teachers, and that if they were using really good instruction most of those kids would be able to read. But I also believe that you could probably adequately train volunteers to teach reading in 3 hours, if you were using a really good curriculum (like ABeCeDarian). Unfortunately, they won't do that, so it will a total waste of time.

[angela in ohio]

Sure, I understand that a tutor could be greatly helpful. But I find something very, very sad about this straight-faced appeal that "something must be done" and the happy claim that a tutor who's received three hours of training can greatly improve these students' reading skills -- clearly, there is a very big problem. I just don't think a volunteer corps should be expected to teach children to read. This is the JOB of the teachers.

 

As a rough analogy -- if there is a town where many of the surgeries are being botched, is the solution to have an army of volunteer medics to assist ?

 

No, but the docotors don't have a union, and the hospitals don't get away with trying out new medical methods on all of the patients hospital-wide without any proof that they work. ;)

 

I'm not saying I agree with it, I'm just explaining why it is happening. Volunteers with a few hours of training are doing a better job. It doesn't take a teaching degree to teach a student to read (in fact, a teaching degree may get in the way of teaching.) It takes time and care and a pretty basic understanding of how to read.

 

I'm not anti-teacher. Dh was a teacher for years. Like I said, there are a few who care, and they find a way to teach effectively despite the schools.

[lgm]

Interesting appeal from a district that undoubtedly has enough Title I money to have reading specialists, Orton-Gillingham, etc.

 

My guess is that the tutor will become an unpaid 1:1 paraprofessional. The duties will include bringing breakfast trays down to the classroom, escorting students to the bathroom, persuading the child to engage with his work rather than wander mentally and physically, as well as reteaching the lesson during the classwork period. Hopefully some will value education and be the smiling grandparents that can get that message across.

[angela in ohio]

Interesting appeal from a district that undoubtedly has enough Title I money to have reading specialists, Orton-Gillingham, etc.

 

My guess is that the tutor will become an unpaid 1:1 paraprofessional. The duties will include bringing breakfast trays down to the classroom, escorting students to the bathroom, persuading the child to engage with his work rather than wander mentally and physically, as well as reteaching the lesson during the classwork period. Hopefully some will value education and be the smiling grandparents that can get that message across.

 

In every program of this type that I have seen, the tutoring takes place after school. A tutor works one on one with a student in one specific academic area.

[Tammyla]

Jm2cents This in some way validates the ability of an untrained homeschooling parents ability to teach.

 

Our local elementary schools use volunteer reading mentors aka tutors every day.

 

Well, in case this makes you feel any better (or maybe worse)....

 

Does anyone else find anything, well, curious about this?

[lgm]

In every program of this type that I have seen, the tutoring takes place after school. A tutor works one on one with a student in one specific academic area.

 

In this area, there are so many students that qualify for tutoring that the district cannot hire that many tutors, even if every certified teacher agreed to take the job. (Finding bus drivers to get the students home is another problem) Instead, elementary NCLB mandated tutoring has been done by pullout and pushin with math and LA specialists during the regular school day. In the middle school, the failing students must take an additional LA and/or math period. They can come to afterschool tutoring also and stay up to 3 hours after, with free transport home. The high school does the same as the middle school, only they add in a certified math teacher on duty every period to help all students - not just at-risk, sped, or LD students. They also have every teacher's schedule arranged to have a free period for 'office hours' daily plus one afternoon a week so that students can get help if they wish to do so. NHS also provides peer tutoring.

 

IMHE, the problem isn't so much curriculum, as inability to persuade the students to engage in the lesson. That failure swells to inability to plug all the resulting gaps. My district is trying though - they've tested every K-8 child for math and reading skills and arranged to teach the missing skills. Still doesn't solve the problem of the many children who won't attend to lessons without their hands held. Oppositional defiance is huge. "I don' wanna' and "I don' hafta" is a common phrase by the ones who haven't learned to position their body and go off to la la land. Maybe it's different in Detroit than it is in the NY metro area. Shrug. Maybe we're better off making trade school free for all who drop out, no matter what age they are when they decide they are ready for an education.

Edited January 3, 2010 by lgm

[AuntieM]

Just want to comment that this thread is full of interesting exchanges -- thank you all for the great dialogue!

[Tammyla]

Here they tutor during school hours in the hallway due to limited classroom space.

 

We also have before an after school programs for working parents that are monitored by a teacher or two along with volunteers or aides. They can work on lessons, but it's very noisy most of the time.

 

In every program of this type that I have seen, the tutoring takes place after school. A tutor works one on one with a student in one specific academic area.

Edited January 2, 2010 by Tammyla

[stripe]

Ah but your analogy does not hold at all! If it did, how come *we*, with no degree, can teach children to read???

 

To be a surgeon takes real knowledge, and a 'real' degree. To teach a child does not 'demand' a degree. Many many generations were taught by people with no degree. Many generations died from being operated on by people with no degree!

My analogy was predicated on surgeons doing horribly. So if there was another profession where the people weren't doing it, would we rush to bring in slightly trained assistants to make up for their mistakes OR would we do something else more drastic like a) fire the professionals, b) evaluate the system to figure out what is going wrong, c) see if the professionals are lacking some critical service that is undermining their ability to do their work, and so on.

 

[i think there actually [i]is[/i] an analogy here to the doctor/midwife issue about a hundred years ago, when doctors decided that hospital births were safer and then, as births were brought into hospitals -- devoid of an understanding of germ theory, doctors went from dealing with corpses and sick people, to the delivery room (without washing their hands), and childbed fever rates rose dramatically. The hands-on training that most midwives had was adequate for most births, and their lower germ environment made a huge difference, in that case. I also don't think a degree in and of itself doesn't make someone a good surgeon. In the extreme past, many pioneering surgeons were self-educated.]

 

Anyway, stepping back from the analogy, I am not anti-teacher at all. What I am is shocked that there is some belief that it is ACCEPTABLE that trained teachers cannot teach students, and nor should they be expected to (!), but 3 hours of training will resolve the problem and all will be solved.

 

I think it's selling the children short, and expecting too little from teachers, and I cannot believe no one involved with the program seems to have observed this fact, or wonder if the city of Detroit could perhaps save lots of money by replacing all teachers by minimally trained volunteers!

Edited January 3, 2010 by stripe

[angela in ohio]

I cannot believe no one involved with the program seems to have observed this fact, or wonder if the city of Detroit could perhaps save lots of money by replacing all teachers by minimally trained volunteers!

 

I'm sure many are aware of it. The fact is that they can't do anything about it. :glare:

[nitascool]

 

Thought You might enjoy this.