Merry Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 Ok, we in this WTM group are picky about grammar and vocabulary, aren't we? But it seems like that the leaders in my church are not as picky. Yesterday, our church put on a Christmas play which was cheesy by the way and stated that as incredible as it sounds, God wants to get to know us and He wants us to get to know Him. The problem though is that He already knows us and has known us since we were first conceived in the womb. I understand that they were trying to say that God wants to have a relationship with us but couldn't they have trusted the Bible to speak for itself and to just say that God loved us, etc. instead of twisting the words to sound more personal or something? As it is, the implication is that God is limited in His knowledge which is a serious error in my book. Or am I making too much of this? Does this fall in the category of a personal peeve or is it something bigger? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonshineLearner Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 This is a reason that Christians need to know: Bible Content and Bible Catechism. I was just looking at a Church site that was talking about Theology and Scripture Knowledge and one on "Christian Living". A Mentor of mine, believes that Churches should do an (anonymous) Test every few months to measure if their Church Members are growing in Grace and Knowledge. Grace and peace be yours in abundance through the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord." 2 Peter 1:2 It is one of the Churches duties to provide Bible Knowledge, hopefully at a scholarly level, to their congregation. Classical Speaking.... Pastors use to be the ones to tutor capable students... in their studies. It's a problem with our generation that it's more important to be "cute/fun" than "Biblical/accurate". I think it's prevalent in more than one area of Church Gatherings. :-) Carrie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 ... instead of twisting the words to sound more personal or something? I think it is so very wrong to misquote, twist, or other wise profane any Bible passage, verse or word. If someone can't make their (religious) point using what is inspired by God, then maybe their point isn't worth making. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daisy Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 I'm agreeing with you but I'm also going to say, "good luck." :glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMA Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 (edited) Ok, we in this WTM group are picky about grammar and vocabulary, aren't we? But it seems like that the leaders in my church are not as picky. Yesterday, our church put on a Christmas play which was cheesy by the way and stated that as incredible as it sounds, God wants to get to know us and He wants us to get to know Him. The problem though is that He already knows us and has known us since we were first conceived in the womb. I understand that they were trying to say that God wants to have a relationship with us but couldn't they have trusted the Bible to speak for itself and to just say that God loved us, etc. instead of twisting the words to sound more personal or something? As it is, the implication is that God is limited in His knowledge which is a serious error in my book. Or am I making too much of this? Does this fall in the category of a personal peeve or is it something bigger? Could the play refer to this: Jeremiah 1, 4-5: The word of the LORD came to me thus: Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I dedicated you, a prophet to the nations I appointed you. (Catholic NAB) Louise Edited December 7, 2009 by LMA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happi duck Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 We once visited a church that had a skit instead of a sermon. The point of the skit was Jesus apologizing to a woman for how her life turned out.:glare:(We didn't go back:tongue_smilie:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
specialmama Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Ok, we in this WTM group are picky about grammar and vocabulary, aren't we? But it seems like that the leaders in my church are not as picky. Yesterday, our church put on a Christmas play which was cheesy by the way and stated that as incredible as it sounds, God wants to get to know us and He wants us to get to know Him. The problem though is that He already knows us and has known us since we were first conceived in the womb. I understand that they were trying to say that God wants to have a relationship with us but couldn't they have trusted the Bible to speak for itself and to just say that God loved us, etc. instead of twisting the words to sound more personal or something? As it is, the implication is that God is limited in His knowledge which is a serious error in my book. Or am I making too much of this? Does this fall in the category of a personal peeve or is it something bigger? I don't know. I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt. It was a play, a cheesy play, not a sermon empowered by the Holy Spirit. Many people acting in a play ad-lib. They paraphrase. They know the meaning of what they are to say, but they use their own words. I think it's likely the innocent mis-communication of someone who is trying to talk to a certain (lost) audience, trying to make them understand. It wouldn't have bothered me. I'd extend some grace to the actor/actress. Now, the above example, about a play where Jesus apologizes? That is blatant twisting, there's no paraphrase miscommunication there. I'd have left too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie4b Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Ok, we in this WTM group are picky about grammar and vocabulary, aren't we? But it seems like that the leaders in my church are not as picky. Yesterday, our church put on a Christmas play which was cheesy by the way and stated that as incredible as it sounds, God wants to get to know us and He wants us to get to know Him. The problem though is that He already knows us and has known us since we were first conceived in the womb. I understand that they were trying to say that God wants to have a relationship with us but couldn't they have trusted the Bible to speak for itself and to just say that God loved us, etc. instead of twisting the words to sound more personal or something? As it is, the implication is that God is limited in His knowledge which is a serious error in my book. Or am I making too much of this? Does this fall in the category of a personal peeve or is it something bigger? You could be right, but the English word "know" can have different meanings. Some translations of the Bible use the word "know" for instance, to mean sexual relations, and the Bible uses the relationship of a husband to his wife as a metaphor for Christ's relationship with his church. Under this meaning of "know", there is a level of intimacy that requires a two way interchange. God is omniscient and knows our every thought; however, the knowing that is intimacy requires two willling beings. So in the play, "get to know you" could reasonably mean the intimate kind of "know" not the omniscient kind of know. It is very consistent with the desire for relationship statement that came with it. If it bothers you, I would talk with your pastor about it. Don't "make a case." Just ask what he thinks. If it was a children's play, it's very possible that he heard the line at the same time you did and cringed himself. A lot of stuff written for kids does have very sloppy translation and if the play director didn't notice it and correct it herself or himself, that may be why it slipped by. If otherwise in your church's teaching from the pulpit and to kids (if they have Sunday school in your church) is orthodox and you're satisfied with it, I would keep this minor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angela in ohio Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 This is what bugs me about signs in front of churches that say things like, "I miss you. God." God's Word is sufficient without us having to make up things for Him to say. A lot of it is done in the name of making God's Word palatable to the unsaved. It's a shame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merry Posted December 8, 2009 Author Share Posted December 8, 2009 Thank you, Laurie. I did feel that I was missing something here but your explanation makes sense. I never heard of the other meaning of "know". The pastor himself was in the play so I assume that he supported this song. It was not just a children's play or skit but a full length play for the whole church. I didn't ask him about the word because our church is big and growing much bigger and he's not very good about answering individual emails. And yes, the church seems to be sound Biblically but it has been trying out new trends which unsettles me so I guess I was already on edge when this came up. Also I wonder if there are other people like me or are new to church that might misunderstand the way the word was used? I am fifty one years old and have been attending church all my life but still, I was confused. Is this knowing thing one of the new trends or a new emphasis placed on the gospel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danestress Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Yesterday, our church put on a Christmas play which was cheesy by the way and stated that as incredible as it sounds, God wants to get to know us and He wants us to get to know Him. besides the fact that I absolutely loathe anything in the form of a skit or play, I don't see what the problem is. Jesus himself said that in the last days, many will say "Lord Lord" and that he will say, "I never knew you." There may be different types of "knowing" a person, but I don't think it's theologically wrong to say that God wants to know us, even though I also think it's theologically true that God already knows us inside and out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merry Posted December 8, 2009 Author Share Posted December 8, 2009 nonbelievers. I forgot about that. I guess that I was already nervous and on edge when watching the play so I lost some perspective. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie4b Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 (edited) Thank you, Laurie. I did feel that I was missing something here but your explanation makes sense. I never heard of the other meaning of "know". The pastor himself was in the play so I assume that he supported this song. It was not just a children's play or skit but a full length play for the whole church. I didn't ask him about the word because our church is big and growing much bigger and he's not very good about answering individual emails. And yes, the church seems to be sound Biblically but it has been trying out new trends which unsettles me so I guess I was already on edge when this came up. Also I wonder if there are other people like me or are new to church that might misunderstand the way the word was used? I am fifty one years old and have been attending church all my life but still, I was confused. Is this knowing thing one of the new trends or a new emphasis placed on the gospel? The use of the verb "know" in terms of sexual relations is actually King James Version, rather than a modern usage. As I thought more about this, I remembered a more directly applicable verse. Matt. 7:22-23 Matthew 7:22-24 (New International Version) 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!' I looked at American Standard and King James, and they also use the word "knew" in this context. So I think it was actually quite a legitimate phrase to say God wants to know you, though I agree with you that it could have been misunderstood by kids or people unfamiliar with the Bible. You still might approach the pastor (I wouldn't email--just ask him about it the next time you see him. Something like: I've been wondering about the phrase in that song that said God wants to get to know you. I understand it can mean wants intimacy with you, but I was also concerned that maybe the kids or adults not familiar with Scripture might think it meant that God was not all-knowing. What's your take on that?" That way, you've expressed your concern and conveyed trust/respect toward your pastor by asking for his perspective. Edited December 8, 2009 by Laurie4b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ereks mom Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Ok, we in this WTM group are picky about grammar and vocabulary, aren't we? But it seems like that the leaders in my church are not as picky. Yesterday, our church put on a Christmas play which was cheesy by the way and stated that as incredible as it sounds, God wants to get to know us and He wants us to get to know Him. The problem though is that He already knows us and has known us since we were first conceived in the womb. I understand that they were trying to say that God wants to have a relationship with us but couldn't they have trusted the Bible to speak for itself and to just say that God loved us, etc. instead of twisting the words to sound more personal or something? As it is, the implication is that God is limited in His knowledge which is a serious error in my book. Or am I making too much of this? Does this fall in the category of a personal peeve or is it something bigger? ...desires a relationship with each of us. Yes, you're right; He does already know us, but that doesn't mean we know Him. As someone else pointed out, the play was probably trying to communicate our need for a relationship with Christ, albeit in a "cheesy" way. I'd be willing to give the benefit of the doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 It would bug me as well. Church readings, hymns or songs, liturgies, and sermons should be doctrinally pure. Otherwise we are profaning God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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