2nd Grade Math Question

[SparrowsNest]

Not sure if this is the right forum, but I have a question.

 

My daughter is in ps in 2nd grade. Her homework last night included what I felt were some pretty difficult (for 2nd grade) word problems, such as...

 

John's mother gave him $6.25. He already had six coins in his pocket. Now he has $7.65. What were the six coins?

 

or

 

The Red Team had 25 more points than the Blue Team. In the next game, the Red team got 15 points and the blue team got 45 points. In the game after that, the Red team got 5 points and the Blue team got 10 points. Who has more points?

 

I don't remember my older boys doing problems like this in 2nd. :confused:

 

She just looked like a little deer in headlights; she had no idea how to set up this type of multi-step problem. Once I showed her the steps broken down, she could do each of the steps, but I don't think it would've been something she'd've understood without a lot of handholding. I guess I am just concerned about her -- she's still working on borrowing in 3-digit subtraction and is just now getting those 1-20 basic facts (i.e., 15-8= __) down. I thought that was grade appropriate, but now...

 

OK, I don't know what the point of this post is! LOL I guess I'm just wondering if this is typical 2nd grade work?

[Trivium Academy]

No, it might be typical ps work but it's not age-appropriate at all. There are too many abstract concepts for a younger child to be able to successfully learn from this format.

 

You can give her help by give her the coins she needs to count up to $7.65 from $6.25 but it will develop on how much concrete math she's learned (and retained).

 

I can't believe how convoluted the word problems are stated! :glare:

 

The Red Team had 25 more points than the Blue Team. In the next game, the Red team got 15 points and the blue team got 45 points. In the game after that, the Red team got 5 points and the Blue team got 10 points. Who has more points?

 

With this one, I would put this on a piece of paper with your dd:

 

Game 1

Blue Team: ? points

Red Team: +25 points

 

Game 2

Blue Team: 45 points

Red Team: 15 points

 

Game 3

Blue Team: 10 points

Red Team: 5 points

 

Red Team: 15+5+25= 45

Blue Team: 45+10=55

 

The Blue team won more points even though you don't know how much in the first game.

 

Next you'll be solving for x in a complicated algebraic equation without any foundation. Urgh.

 

hth

[SparrowsNest]

There are too many abstract concepts for a younger child to be able to successfully learn from this format

.

 

OK, that's what I was thinking as well. She is such a sweet girl and very diligent worker, but she just had no idea where even to start on these, and when I was thinking about it I realized that these have to be reasoned out in multiple steps, which is not a grammar-age skill (at least as far as I understand!).

[Ali in OR]

I also have a 2nd grade dd and we use Singapore and supplement with Horizons--both very strong programs that if anything are on the accelerated side. We just finished money in each of them and we did not do anything close to the difficulty level of the money problem you mentioned. The two step word problems we will do today in Singapore's challenging word problems are on this level:

 

Roy and Paul have $85 altogether.

a) If Roy has $67, how much money does Paul have?

b) Who has less money? How much less?

 

I am a former high school math teacher and fully intend to provide my dds with a very strong math education. But that does not mean that I'm going to push difficult problems as young as possible. If you tackle topics before kids are really ready for them, the kids will just get frustrated and think that they aren't good at math. If you wait a year or two, they will understand it far more easily and quickly. There is no need for second graders to be assigned such problems for homework. Now, if the teacher wants to have a more challenging "problem of the week" that the class goes through together, or extra challenges for math whizzes, I'm okay with that. But for regular homework? Doesn't look age appropriate to me.

[Jennifer in NH]

My daughter is just starting 3rd grade Singapore math. There are 2 step word problems in there ,and I expect we will try to work through them....She would have not handled them at all in 2nd grade math...heck, even one step word problems she sometimes get confused at! For the record: she is pretty good at math!:001_smile: ( now if I can only get her reading!;))

[Jennifer in NH]

I also have a 2nd grade dd and we use Singapore and supplement with Horizons--both very strong programs that if anything are on the accelerated side. We just finished money in each of them and we did not do anything close to the difficulty level of the money problem you mentioned. The two step word problems we will do today in Singapore's challenging word problems are on this level:

 

Roy and Paul have $85 altogether.

a) If Roy has $67, how much money does Paul have?

b) Who has less money? How much less?

 

I am a former high school math teacher and fully intend to provide my dds with a very strong math education. But that does not mean that I'm going to push difficult problems as young as possible. If you tackle topics before kids are really ready for them, the kids will just get frustrated and think that they aren't good at math. If you wait a year or two, they will understand it far more easily and quickly. There is no need for second graders to be assigned such problems for homework. Now, if the teacher wants to have a more challenging "problem of the week" that the class goes through together, or extra challenges for math whizzes, I'm okay with that. But for regular homework? Doesn't look age appropriate to me.

 

I just have to say I totally agree!:iagree:

[SparrowsNest]

Thanks so much to those who shared their viewpoints. I feel much relieved! :)

[Gretchen in NJ]

I am also a former PS Math teacher. One of the main reasons we choose to homeschool is because of the math program. Our PS was using Everyday Math. The word problems were similarly too advanced for our dd grade level.

 

They want them to think before they have the tools to solve such a problem. Its crazy to frustrate a child like that.

 

Gretchen

[SparrowsNest]

I am also a former PS Math teacher. One of the main reasons we choose to homeschool is because of the math program. Our PS was using Everyday Math. The word problems were similarly too advanced for our dd grade level.

 

They want them to think before they have the tools to solve such a problem. Its crazy to frustrate a child like that.

 

Tomorrow is our spring conference, so I'm going to bring this up with her teacher. I'll see what she says about this! She is a very experienced (i.e., 30+ years) ps teacher. It'll be interesting. ;)

[Gailmegan]

Those types of questions are in Saxon Level 3, nearer to the end of the year.

[SparrowsNest]

Gailmegan, is your 6 year old doing these problems, then? (Seeing that you are doing Saxon 3 w/ Rabbit...) Wowsa!

[ArwenA]

No, it might be typical ps work but it's not age-appropriate at all. There are too many abstract concepts for a younger child to be able to successfully learn from this format.

 

You can give her help by give her the coins she needs to count up to $7.65 from $6.25 but it will develop on how much concrete math she's learned (and retained).

 

I can't believe how convoluted the word problems are stated! :glare:

 

The Red Team had 25 more points than the Blue Team. In the next game, the Red team got 15 points and the blue team got 45 points. In the game after that, the Red team got 5 points and the Blue team got 10 points. Who has more points?

 

With this one, I would put this on a piece of paper with your dd:

 

Game 1

Blue Team: ? points

Red Team: +25 points

 

Game 2

Blue Team: 45 points

Red Team: 15 points

 

Game 3

Blue Team: 10 points

Red Team: 5 points

 

Red Team: 15+5+25= 45

Blue Team: 45+10=55

 

The Blue team won more points even though you don't know how much in the first game.

 

Next you'll be solving for x in a complicated algebraic equation without any foundation. Urgh.

 

hth

 

 

My thoughts exactly (except stated much better).:)

[Cindyg]

We're doing a pre-algebra program, and I would expect to find this type of question in that program. However, the text would first explain how to do this type of problem. The curriculum would not expect the child to discover how to solve this on her own.

[Nestof3]

These are similar to some of the Singapore Challenging Word Problems my son is doing. He is not great doing them on his own, but I talk about them with him. I show him how to set up pictures and charts to organize the information. I figure eventhough they are challenging for him, when we work together on them, he is learning how to take on a problem.

 

John's mother gave him $6.25. He already had six coins in his pocket. Now he has $7.65. What were the six coins?

 

[i would have him count out $6.25 and put it into one pile, then give him some play dollars and coins and have him work it out. I consider word problems to be a great time to use manipulatives. I always have a few different ones on the table when it's word problem time. If my son is stumped, I will also help jump start him in the right direction.]

 

or

 

The Red Team had 25 more points than the Blue Team. In the next game, the Red team got 15 points and the blue team got 45 points. In the game after that, the Red team got 5 points and the Blue team got 10 points. Who has more points?

 

[i am teaching my son, Nathan, to set up a chart for these problems. Show her how to make a chart with like this. Then she can fill in the info she knows, and then she can figure out how to calculate the rest -- the unknowns.]

 

 

I always try to get my son to first understand what is going on, and then to draw a picture or a chart. Since we have just begun working on these more difficult problems, I do help guide him, but he has already begun creating his own charts.

[Nestof3]

Here are three problems he did today. Now, we really are only at the beginning of the 2nd Grade Challenging Word Problems book.

 

I photocopied the workbook pages' three problems and the three charts he made to solve the three problems. I hope this helps. Warning: we are still working on handwriting. :eek:

 

 

 

[SparrowsNest]

Dawn, that charting is really helpful, thanks! We'll try that if I see these again.

 

I like the way Singapore has the question in two parts, i.e., helping them to think through it. That seems a little more friendly than just throwing the whole thing at them at once! Which level of Singapore is that?

[Nestof3]

Which level of Singapore is that?

 

Level 2. We are not actually using Singapore Math, but I liked the word problems. We are only on page 11. They seemed pretty advanced compared to the regular 2nd grade level work he was doing, but I wanted him to do "real" math each day too.

 

My first grader started his level 1 at the same time as my 2nd grader started his level 2. We spend half of the math time on whatever math skill is next on the SOL objectives, and then the second half on word problems. We have really been in what I would call "word problem training" since starting this book. I have been trying to show my son techinques, how to use tables to help him solve, etc.

 

I remind him of the steps each day.

 

1. Read the story and imagine what is going on in the story.

 

2. Draw a picture or set up a chart that will help you fill in what the story tells you and what you have to figure out.

 

3. Fill in what the story tells you.

 

4. Look for clues that will let you figure out what you don't know.

 

5. Set up the problem mathematically to solve the clue.

 

6. Fill in the answer to the clue.

 

7. Check to see that you've answered all the questions -- solved the whole problem.

 

I like using the word "clue" -- I think it helps him think more positively about it.

[Gailmegan]

Gailmegan, is your 6 year old doing these problems, then? (Seeing that you are doing Saxon 3 w/ Rabbit...) Wowsa!

 

Yes, he is. He loves math and is always adding numbers and finding patterns in his head. When preparing for K I found Saxon's placement test online and had him take it. He placed into 3 then, so we've been doing it for 2 years now, but he will be done and moving onto 54 next year. The hardest part in the begining was that he didn't read, so the lessons went very slowly with me having to read everything to him. Now the only frustration is that he does the work in his head and can't often remember how he did it when he has to recreate the number sentence. I always hated showing my work too - at least he comes by it naturally LOL