swimmermom3 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Colleen- I hope you remember the points because you are on a roll. I think you have done a great job in highlighting why so many of us are attracted to MCT and believe in it. Paragraph Writing Made Easy makes me queasy.:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen in SEVA Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Paragraph Writing Made Easy makes me queasy.:D The book as a whole isn't horrible. There is NO WAY this is for 4th-8th graders, as it states. My 5th grade students came into my class already writing multi-paragraph research papers (albeit not very good ones). I purchased it to give my oldest a super-quick overview of what a paragraph should contain because he is starting to write paragraphs and we won't get to Paragraph Town for a few months. PWME has students fill in outlines, rewrite those outlines using parallel construction (switching the order of the words), then write a paragraph from that new outline. This is a great concept (a la SWB!), but unfortunately the paragraphs they start with are of the same caliber as what I quoted above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen in SEVA Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 (edited) Sigh... every time I try to go to bed I remember another item from the last 4 pages I wanted to comment on... 7. Regarding MCT and Life of Fred -- I think it would be fair to say that someone who likes MCT would also like Life of Fred, but I don't think you could say that someone who did NOT like Life of Fred would NOT like MCT. Fred spends an entire chapter explaining how to find the area of a triangle by using Heron's formula, then at the end of the chapter adds as an afterthought "or you could just multiply half the base times height." MCT's Grammar Island has a multi-page conversation in which animal A replies to everything animal B says with the statement "Completely." Eventually, on the last page of the section, animal B catches on that animal A was demonstrating that a statement must be complete to be a sentence. My son found this hysterical. My son also finds most of Life of Fred hysterical. I could see how it would be annoying to someone else. :lol: Edited December 10, 2009 by Colleen in SEVA it's late and there were many typos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lakotajm Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 If I had a subject that we were thoroughly dissatisfied with and I saw some new thing that was taking the board by storm, I'd probably be very tempted, look into the curriculum further, and potentially purchase it with hopes that my dreams had come true. ;) Yes, that is my experience, too. I did that a couple of years ago in utter dissatisfaction with what we were using for history/Bible. Now, though, there's nothing that would tempt me to switch, no "flavor of the month" that would lead me away from what we found for history/Bible. I'm completely untempted to switch!! :001_smile: OK, so I am now curious...what do you use for history/Bible? Lakota Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovemykids Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 [] Also, there are some years, especially grades 1-6, where you have a lot of flexibility. Any math done consistently will get you to pre-algebra. Any grammar done consistently will probably be fine. Some kind of writing program, any writing program, will probably set you up well. But at some point you have to pick a path and get serious. You can't just pick up CW at the end of the sequence, kwim? You have to decide what you want. Some programs are relatively interchangeable, and I think it's a fun idea to rotate between them and balance their strengths and weaknesses. But to assume all programs are equal or get you to the same place in the end is silly. I do not agree with some of this statement, sorry Elizabeth. I do, however, appreciate all of your wisdom that I have found on these boards. I believe that there are many, many ways of getting a student to the same place, albeit minor differences. I’m sure there are jumping in points in CW, maybe not in the final year, I haven’t looked ahead that far, but if a student has mastered the writing skills in the previous programs; why wouldn’t they be able to slide into the program? Of course they could. I am sure that there would be a learning curve, but it could be done. Many times programs will stress that you have to go back and start from the beginning, but it’s simply a marketing ploy. In the end, we all have different goals for our children and we need to figure out what those goals are, and yes, even “get serious†at some point. But you can not deny the fact that “the basics†are just that, basics. Many unschooling parents have their children study very hard for only a few months before entering college, just to nail the basics, it doesn’t take long. (I am sure they have been doing some sort of informal schooling, but it's a point) I would rather have my children learn as we go along, so as not to stress them out unnecessarily right before college, LOL. But it can be done. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 (edited) . I'm wanting to see where it's GOING and what its progression is over the long-term. To be crass, anybody can make a 3rd or 4th grade grammar pop, but how does it compare to rigorous materials in the higher grades? That's what I want to know. .... But to think it is academically superior to some of the really strong options out there may or may not be accurate, at least not over the long-haul. I don't know, haven't had it in-hand. But that's what I'm looking for. I'm looking for specifics on whether it covers rhetoric at the high school level the way CW or the WTM's progression would. It looks to me like MCT does a very fine job of what it does do in the lower grades that I've looked at samples of so far. But I'm not sure the goals and coverage are the same. It goes back to what I was saying in focus. I'm not sure it's TRYING to be a rhetoric or progymnasta approach, so of course it's not going to do those things. I'm pretty convinced you're never going to find perfection in any curriculum. You accept the trade-offs. I think using something that helps you become a better teacher is a great thing. Each person is just deciding their trade-offs and what they need the most. Also, there are some years, especially grades 1-6, where you have a lot of flexibility. Any math done consistently will get you to pre-algebra. Any grammar done consistently will probably be fine. Some kind of writing program, any writing program, will probably set you up well. But at some point you have to pick a path and get serious. You can't just pick up CW at the end of the sequence, kwim? You have to decide what you want. Some programs are relatively interchangeable, and I think it's a fun idea to rotate between them and balance their strengths and weaknesses. But to assume all programs are equal or get you to the same place in the end is silly. I should be safe using it for 3rd-5th grade and then switching, right? You are saying that I need to be sure I want to use it for the long haul and not for 5 years and then panic that it isn't up to standard and try to bail and switch to CW? Is that it? Lovemykids, I often have to remind myself that for DD to go to the same college as her mom she only needs a GED. :lol: (I had more than that, but that is all they require.) She doesn't need to have Algebra done in 7th grade, or be at rhetoric level at 14.:tongue_smilie:I have to balance keeping her challenged with feeling pressured from what others think (like Algebra in 7th or 8th is a requirement for college, for example.) Edited December 11, 2009 by Lovedtodeath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josie Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Funny thing is that I didn't know what everyone was talking about until I read down this thread. Is it the flavor of the month? It definitely will be for some people, but it will work great for others. It is just like all the other possibilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovemykids Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Lovemykids, I often have to remind myself that for DD to go to the same college as her mom she only needs a GED. :lol: (I had more than that, but that is all they require.) She doesn't need to have Algebra done in 7th grade, or be at rhetoric level at 14.:tongue_smilie:I have to balance keeping her challenged with feeling pressured from what others think (like Algebra in 7th or 8th is a requirement for college, for example.) Well, I just wanted to call attention to the fact that not every curricula decision is going to decide the ultimate destiny of our children. The mind is a powerful tool, very capable of performing beyond our expectations in many instances. Let’s give ourselves, and our children, more credit than a curricula choice, that is my point I guess. Also, if we are looking at grades 1-6 as just a set of skills to be mastered by a certain time, why not look at high school in the same manner? It certainly is less intimidating that way, isn’t it? Let’s not belittle some choices and claim that they will not get you to the same goal when it has been proven that there are, in fact, many ways of preparing for college. Making sure that your child is neither pushed too hard, nor neglected academically is what we want to do. We are all here because we share a love for educational curricula; let’s encourage each other in our endeavors. Classical education is a very broad term and there are many ways of achieving one….I think, yes, even an unschoolish classical education, such as what some LCC followers are doing. There is nothing silly about a parents’ hard work and curricula choices, albeit changing the course here and there. I guess I am intrigued by CW, and I certainly like the classical model of writing, but I just don’t think that it is the be all and end all of writing programs. LOL. I believe that you can teach a classical style of writing without CW, if that’s what you truly want. (My dd has been unschooled in a way, in science, but she knows the subject that we have largely unschooled more than most of her other subjects.) GED: yes, many home educated students have a GED and they get into colleges just fine.. That’s all that my children will need as well, because we do not have any tremendous plans for college, we will probably test out in HS, do CC college and then have them transfer to one of the better colleges. But I think I’ll try to make sure that they have a diploma. Not positive about that though. Back to MCT, now this just might be the writing program for my children. Lol. :tongue_smilie: :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joannqn Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 I just saw this post and have NOT read though all 16 pages... We use MCT and on our second year with it. Both of my school-age kids do well with it. My DD, who tests at the high school level in LA, tolerates it well and is challenged by it. My DS, who's most challenging subject is LA, loves it. He looks forward to all of the components of it. I don't particularly like the writing component so we read it as a supplement to IEW, which I prefer for the structure. We use TTC for literature, rather than MCT's Suppose an Octopus series. I like that TTC can be used with any book where MCT's literature series are specific to certain books. Between MCT, IEW, and TTC we're set for language arts for the long haul. At this point, I expect to use these through graduation, though I may add a couple of things in high school for higher levels of writing and literature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Thank you Joann. That was a wonderful addition for me as I try to wrap my mind around this. Lovemykids, I fully intend for my kids to have a diploma, not a GED.:tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovemykids Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 (edited) Thank you Joann. That was a wonderful addition for me as I try to wrap my mind around this. Lovemykids, I fully intend for my kids to have a diploma, not a GED.:tongue_smilie: Yes, I fully intend to give my children a diploma as well. A GED has too many negative connotations associated with it, such as drop out, unintelligent, not having what it takes to finish high school, and so on…even when that is far from the case. What I meant to say was I am undecided about an accredited diploma versus another type of diploma like parent issued or the like. ;) Well, I should also say that we have several local colleges that are rated among the top schools, within driving distance…so we are aiming for those eventually. But I also feel that some sort of art school is a strong possibility for my highly creative girls, so I can relax. (thank goodness) In addition, I do not feel like they have to go to college at all should they choose another path. Just a few more thoughts… Yes, he is our 3 year old Goldendoodle. I absolutely adore him! This is one of the best posts here, I enjoyed your cute dog! :lol: I haven't read any of the other posts, but yes it is just the herd mentality again. Someone said this is a new program, but I bought and used a few of the "land" (i.e., island, town, etc) books with my oldest, who was gifted, around 10 years ago. Maybe it's been edited or updated since then, but I don't think it's changed that much. We liked it, but didn't love it and I sold it. There were a group of us that used it, but none that I have stayed in touch with continued using it with younger children. I've found other things that we like more. Different strokes.... I don't take anything seriously until after the second year of it being enthusiastically reported here. I also take into account how long the poster has been homeschooling (not how old the child is that is being homeschooled) and how much hopping around they do. I tend to pay more attention when someone is cycling through a second or third child and finds something that really sparks their interest because I know they've tried other things for a particular age and find the particular item superior in some way. Thank you for this information. Hmm, something to think about...yes, different strokes. Edited December 11, 2009 by lovemykids added info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovemykids Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Tara, search for MCT on the boards and you'll see how much it's been talked about lately. :lol: It's getting to be a little over the top, don't you think? :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiobrain Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 And tedious! I used to have a life... no wait, that was like, 12 years ago.....:glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Alfred Academy Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 I just saw this post and have NOT read though all 16 pages... We use TTC for literature, rather than MCT's Suppose an Octopus series. I like that TTC can be used with any book where MCT's literature series are specific to certain books. Between MCT, IEW, and TTC we're set for language arts for the long haul. At this point, I expect to use these through graduation, though I may add a couple of things in high school for higher levels of writing and literature. What is TTC? It's not ringing any bells. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danybug Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 I just saw this post and have NOT read though all 16 pages... We use MCT and on our second year with it. Both of my school-age kids do well with it. My DD, who tests at the high school level in LA, tolerates it well and is challenged by it. My DS, who's most challenging subject is LA, loves it. He looks forward to all of the components of it. I don't particularly like the writing component so we read it as a supplement to IEW, which I prefer for the structure. We use TTC for literature, rather than MCT's Suppose an Octopus series. I like that TTC can be used with any book where MCT's literature series are specific to certain books. Between MCT, IEW, and TTC we're set for language arts for the long haul. At this point, I expect to use these through graduation, though I may add a couple of things in high school for higher levels of writing and literature. I am drawing a blank on what TTC is? TIA! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovemykids Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Teaching the Classics :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovemykids Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 And tedious! I used to have a life... no wait, that was like, 12 years ago.....:glare: :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Alfred Academy Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Teaching the Classics :) (slapping forehead) It's sitting on my shelf! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardening momma Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 :lol: It's getting to be a little over the top, don't you think? :D I want to make an MCT joke on every grammar/writing thread now. I'm refraining, though. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.