x-post Need some advice with Math progression please...

[TeaTotaler]

Ds (11) is currently a 6th grader and completed the Sing Math Primary Math series in Oct 2008. We had just made a cross country move and I was dealing with health issues so I did not want to jump in with an Algebra program without doing more research. I decided to have him finish the CWP and IP books we still had added in Zaccarro’s Prim Grade Challenge Math and a few other miscellaneous books borrowed from the library.

A few years ago I purchased Dolciani’s 1977 Edition of Pre-Algebra so I decided to start that this fall even though I know some kids go straight into Alg after SM6. I wanted to solidify concepts before moving onto Alg. Well, ds is not thrilled with the book – doesn’t like the format (it is an old textbook) and says that he already knows this stuff. So we have just been doing a few problems from each section. Am I just wasting his time because of my insecurity of making sure there are no gaps?

I already own NEM 1 (actually two copies of the set…don’t ask) but it scares the life out of me. I am NOT a math whiz and never took Advanced Alg. Ds likes the sample pages of Discovering Math but I feel like he needs to get used to a different format. I borrowed Jacob’s Elem Alg but ds found it too wordy which makes me think that LoF will not be a great fit either. I considered Russian Math but without solutions I don’t think I would be able to handle it.

I would love to use Foerster with the DVDs from Math without Borders but I have never seen the text in person and wanted to get some advice before purchasing more stuff. I also own a used copy of the Chalkdust Elem Alg text and could try that but I’ve read that it is a college text and may not be appropriate for younger kids.

After cruising along through elementary level math I find myself spinning wheels trying to figure out where to go next. My math resource shelf has grown exponentially in the past year!! I think the fact that math is an impt subject I feel more pressure to not mess up. Also ds is mathy and I don’t want to ruin his love for the subject by picking the wrong curriculum. Although, lately math hasn’t been fun for him which is why I thought I should get some advice.

Any thoughts, suggestions.

Thanks for taking the time to read this post. Sorry if I rambled. I lost my first posting when the boards logged me out so I had to retype this.

[Grace is Sufficient]

First, since you've finished PM6 early, perhaps you could use the rest of this year to allow your son to 'test drive' several of the different curricula you already own (or can borrow from other homeschooling families.)

 

Secondly, check your library. Life of Fred is available in ours via interlibrary loan. You may want to let him check it out. I don't know if any others would be available, but it can't hurt to look.

 

I was in a similar situation. We did Singapore thru 6th... I tried NEM 1 during 7th grade, and it was a nightmare, as math is NOT my strength. So the summer before 8th grade, I took him to a convention and let him pick from several options. He chose Videotext, and it worked well for him.

 

Blessings

[Miss Marple]

I chose LOF for my 12 yob after he finished PM6. It was a good fit. Another option is to use Art of Problem Solving Introduction to Algebra. These programs are billed as being for math-gifted students (sounds like your son is math-gifted) and they provide a complete solutions manual to all problems, and there is a placement test:-) I'm using their geometry right now with my youngest. I like the intuitive aspect of AoPS which seems to continue the thinking processes learned in Singapore.

[elegantlion]

My ds is using a 1972 Dolciani pre-algebra. It's labeled Modern School Mathematics course 2, was probably a former 8th grade book. I'm not mathy either and have nice collection of algebra and above books, so I can relate to what you are saying. He thinks it's easy, so far, and doesn't mind the layout.

 

We only made it though Singapore 5a before we switched to pre-algebra this year. One thing I love about the Dolciani book is the terminology. I have not breezed through my other books so I'm not sure how it is addressed. One of the areas I feel is important is that my mathy son completely understand the language of mathematics, I think Dolciani does a great job in that area. My natural inclination is to tell "do this to the top part and this to the bottom part of the 2nd fraction..." which does not get him speaking the language of math. So even if he knows how to do a problem, can he explain in it mathematical terms? Just something else to consider in your quest.

[TeaTotaler]

Cynthia, do you think that it would be more beneficial to follow a more standard text to get ds used to the format? I haven't seen the AoPS books so I don't know how they are set up. On the one hand I so appreciate what SM has done for ds but on the other hand I wonder if now is a good time to transition to tackling a textbook.

 

Thanks for posting.

 

I chose LOF for my 12 yob after he finished PM6. It was a good fit. Another option is to use Art of Problem Solving Introduction to Algebra. These programs are billed as being for math-gifted students (sounds like your son is math-gifted) and they provide a complete solutions manual to all problems, and there is a placement test:-) I'm using their geometry right now with my youngest. I like the intuitive aspect of AoPS which seems to continue the thinking processes learned in Singapore.

[TeaTotaler]

Glad to hear I'm not the only one collecting old and current used Math books :001_smile:. Sad isn't it.

 

I agree about the terminology in Dolciani. I want ds to become familiar with the language of math which is exactly why I thought covering Pre-Alg with it would be good because he's already familiar with the math. I may just continue on with it at a brisk pace before jumping into an Alg program. What are you planning to use for Alg?

 

Trying to keep up with Latin, Greek, CW and Math makes my brain hurt most days.

 

 

My ds is using a 1972 Dolciani pre-algebra. It's labeled Modern School Mathematics course 2, was probably a former 8th grade book. I'm not mathy either and have nice collection of algebra and above books, so I can relate to what you are saying. He thinks it's easy, so far, and doesn't mind the layout.

 

We only made it though Singapore 5a before we switched to pre-algebra this year. One thing I love about the Dolciani book is the terminology. I have not breezed through my other books so I'm not sure how it is addressed. One of the areas I feel is important is that my mathy son completely understand the language of mathematics, I think Dolciani does a great job in that area. My natural inclination is to tell "do this to the top part and this to the bottom part of the 2nd fraction..." which does not get him speaking the language of math. So even if he knows how to do a problem, can he explain in it mathematical terms? Just something else to consider in your quest.

[TeaTotaler]

Thanks for your input. I didn't realize that I could possibly look at LoF through ILL. Glad to hear Videotext is working out for you.

 

First, since you've finished PM6 early, perhaps you could use the rest of this year to allow your son to 'test drive' several of the different curricula you already own (or can borrow from other homeschooling families.)

 

Secondly, check your library. Life of Fred is available in ours via interlibrary loan. You may want to let him check it out. I don't know if any others would be available, but it can't hurt to look.

 

I was in a similar situation. We did Singapore thru 6th... I tried NEM 1 during 7th grade, and it was a nightmare, as math is NOT my strength. So the summer before 8th grade, I took him to a convention and let him pick from several options. He chose Videotext, and it worked well for him.

 

Blessings

[elegantlion]

Glad to hear I'm not the only one collecting old and current used Math books :001_smile:. Sad isn't it.

 

I agree about the terminology in Dolciani. I want ds to become familiar with the language of math which is exactly why I thought covering Pre-Alg with it would be good because he's already familiar with the math. I may just continue on with it at a brisk pace before jumping into an Alg program. What are you planning to use for Alg?

 

Trying to keep up with Latin, Greek, CW and Math makes my brain hurt most days.

 

Based upon recommendations from Jane I have a 1960s Dolciani planned for Algebra. I found a book and a solutions manual. I also have LOF because ds thinks they are great. Since my ds is only in 6th I plan to take 7th and 8th to build a good foundation in algebra. That will still give him time to get through Calculus by the end of high school.

[Musicmom]

This is what we're doing. I was in the same place you are--we did Singapore Math up through 6B, finishing in the early spring of 6th grade. I decided I wanted to switch to an American program for algebra to get ds used to the terminology, and to use NEM as a supplement to keep the Singapore problem solving skills going. I ended up choosing Videotext for the main program. It has proved to be a good combination for my ds. He has done extremely well in math as a result. The Videotext program explains the "why" and "how" very clearly and is easy to implement. It develops a very good understanding of math. I would definitely NOT recommend trying to use NEM alone or as a primary program--it doesn't explain things nearly as well and it does use different terminology (good to know, but AFTER and in addition to the American terminology). It does make a good supplement, though, if you just do a subset of the problems (otherwise it would be overwhelming.) The word problems in NEM are good.

 

HTH

[Miss Marple]

I wonder if now is a good time to transition to tackling a textbook.

 

I never really considered the transition to a traditional textbook form when deciding what program to use. For my youngest, the "attitude" of the text was the most important since he is fully math competent, but still, emotionally, very much a little boy. LOF worked well for that. He would have fared well with probably anything I gave him, but I think he enjoyed the lessons in LOF more than he would have in say, Lial's, chalkdust, etc.

 

For youngest ds I'm looking more for a program that continues the mathematical thinking skills he solidified in Singapore. He would have done well with NEM (which I used with my oldest), but since we transition to university courses at the algebra 3 level in 11th, I prefer moving to a more Americanized sequence. My plan is to continue using AofPS courses until he is ready for concurrent university courses.

 

As far as format goes, I think you'll find that many texts are going to a more user friendly format. So while I may think of a standard textbook like those I had in school, I'm not sure that you'll find that all texts are like that anymore. In fact, my dss have had some classes at the university where the text wasn't even used.

 

Personally, I'd pick a curriculum based on what I want to see accomplished rather than on format.

[TeaTotaler]

Thanks for your input Cynthia. I guess I was concerned about transitioning to a more traditional, textbook sequence mostly because I know that I will have to farm out the upper levels of math. I also need to investigate more thoroughly CC classes, taking courses concurrently etc....all the stuff that's looming ahead for high school.

 

 

I never really considered the transition to a traditional textbook form when deciding what program to use. For my youngest, the "attitude" of the text was the most important since he is fully math competent, but still, emotionally, very much a little boy. LOF worked well for that. He would have fared well with probably anything I gave him, but I think he enjoyed the lessons in LOF more than he would have in say, Lial's, chalkdust, etc.

 

For youngest ds I'm looking more for a program that continues the mathematical thinking skills he solidified in Singapore. He would have done well with NEM (which I used with my oldest), but since we transition to university courses at the algebra 3 level in 11th, I prefer moving to a more Americanized sequence. My plan is to continue using AofPS courses until he is ready for concurrent university courses.

 

As far as format goes, I think you'll find that many texts are going to a more user friendly format. So while I may think of a standard textbook like those I had in school, I'm not sure that you'll find that all texts are like that anymore. In fact, my dss have had some classes at the university where the text wasn't even used.

 

Personally, I'd pick a curriculum based on what I want to see accomplished rather than on format.

[TeaTotaler]

Thanks Paula. I may have to check it with you later to see how things are going with Dolciani. I found a 1973 Ed of Modern Alg Book 1 but the Teacher's Edn is going for over a hundred $ the last time I checked. I'm not sure how to go about finding a solutions manual to match.

 

 

Based upon recommendations from Jane I have a 1960s Dolciani planned for Algebra. I found a book and a solutions manual. I also have LOF because ds thinks they are great. Since my ds is only in 6th I plan to take 7th and 8th to build a good foundation in algebra. That will still give him time to get through Calculus by the end of high school.

[TeaTotaler]

I'm still holding onto NEM (although I still need to sell my second copy;)) hoping to supplement occasionally. If I can just get over the anxiety of tackling it we might make some headway. Thanks for your response.

 

This is what we're doing. I was in the same place you are--we did Singapore Math up through 6B, finishing in the early spring of 6th grade. I decided I wanted to switch to an American program for algebra to get ds used to the terminology, and to use NEM as a supplement to keep the Singapore problem solving skills going. I ended up choosing Videotext for the main program. It has proved to be a good combination for my ds. He has done extremely well in math as a result. The Videotext program explains the "why" and "how" very clearly and is easy to implement. It develops a very good understanding of math. I would definitely NOT recommend trying to use NEM alone or as a primary program--it doesn't explain things nearly as well and it does use different terminology (good to know, but AFTER and in addition to the American terminology). It does make a good supplement, though, if you just do a subset of the problems (otherwise it would be overwhelming.) The word problems in NEM are good.

 

HTH

[LaurieinCA]

My son finished Singapore 6B at the end of 3rd grade. We did LOF Fractions/ Decimals and Percents over the summer, and then for 4th grade used a California Pre-Algebra text and supplemented with Zaccaro's Challenge Math book. Although others may disagree, I don't think he would have been ready for AOPS Algebra right after 6B. The PreAlgebra book filled some gaps, particularly in negative numbers, graphing, and random concepts like compound interest, etc. that we missed by not using traditional textbooks. This year he is in 5th grade (a young 5th grader; he just turned 10 last week), and we are using AOPS Introduction to Algebra. He is currently working on chapter 7. I must say - this is a challenging book! Many of the word problems are culled from math competitions. I enlisted my husband, a physician who aced the math SAT, to help him. I would hesitate to recommend the book as a self-study course unless you have a qualified tutor. They do have online courses, but we have not tried them yet. Good luck!

[TeaTotaler]

Thanks for the info on how your ds is doing with AoPS. I wish I could get a closer look at the books. Their resources are on my short list for the future.

 

My son finished Singapore 6B at the end of 3rd grade. We did LOF Fractions/ Decimals and Percents over the summer, and then for 4th grade used a California Pre-Algebra text and supplemented with Zaccaro's Challenge Math book. Although others may disagree, I don't think he would have been ready for AOPS Algebra right after 6B. The PreAlgebra book filled some gaps, particularly in negative numbers, graphing, and random concepts like compound interest, etc. that we missed by not using traditional textbooks. This year he is in 5th grade (a young 5th grader; he just turned 10 last week), and we are using AOPS Introduction to Algebra. He is currently working on chapter 7. I must say - this is a challenging book! Many of the word problems are culled from math competitions. I enlisted my husband, a physician who aced the math SAT, to help him. I would hesitate to recommend the book as a self-study course unless you have a qualified tutor. They do have online courses, but we have not tried them yet. Good luck!

[Kareni]

Thanks for the info on how your ds is doing with AoPS. I wish I could get a closer look at the books. Their resources are on my short list for the future.

 

I was able to borrow one through inter-library loan. Would that be an option for you?

 

Regards,

Kareni

[TeaTotaler]

I will have to investigate ILL some more at our library. We have a different system here and it has been a little frustrating. Strangely enough, when we lived in a teeny-tiny town in MN I was able to access more books because we were part of a larger system. I did have to get most of our books through ILL and thankfully there was no charge but at least I had access to them.

 

BTW, what was your impression when you looked through the AoPS books?

 

Thanks.

 

I was able to borrow one through inter-library loan. Would that be an option for you?

 

Regards,

Kareni

[Kareni]

... what was your impression when you looked through the AoPS books?

 

It's been a while but my impression was that the material was meaty and not for the faint of heart! We did not use the AoPS material, but I would certainly have considered it had we encountered the books earlier.

 

Regards,

Kareni

[TeaTotaler]

Thanks. "Not for the faint of heart" duly noted.:D

 

 

It's been a while but my impression was that the material was meaty and not for the faint of heart! We did not use the AoPS material, but I would certainly have considered it had we encountered the books earlier.

 

Regards,

Kareni