Courting? Dating? Young teen. . . I need a plan!

[Peela]

 

Now that I have rambled... before making assumptions about what a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship looks like to you child, TALK TO THEM, but more importantly, LISTEN TO THEM. You may not be on the same page, or even in the same book. But it will lay a foundation of communication and trust, which will benefit all.

 

:iagree:

I should know better than to enter into these threads because it seems all the most conservative people respond.

I dont have a problem with sex before marriage, or if my kids never get married.The marriage thing is a non issue for me, and that doesnt mean I want my kids to be promiscuous or to have sex early- its more the emotional health of the situation that I am watching for. So if the OP is a conservative Christian she is going to resonate with all the conservative Christian responses more than mine. But I find them way out of my experience. I don't find my teens, when they spend time with a person of the opposite sex, rushing off to have sex with them, honestly. They have plenty of self esteem and we have open communication- my dd does share with me, deeply . I was a teen- and a promiscuous one- so I am not naive about what can happen, or the ingenious ways teenagers can keep secrets from their parents. But it is more likely to happen in certain situations- alcohol, low self worth, too strict parents, too lenient parents, bad peers- than in a situation where kids are nurtured and the communication is open, and reasonable boundaries are also set. Doesn't mean its not going to happen, but the projections people make onto teens seem rather that they have a deep fear around it all and want to control it far more than I feel comfortable with. I am into setting some healthy boundaries, watching like a hawk, but not that much into controlling my kids bodies and lives, after a point.

At 13? I just wouldn't worry. I would deal with things as they come up and use it all as a teaching and learning experience. The more open you can be about it, the more likely the kids will share with you, if they dont feel shamed into secrecy.

[mom31257]

We're at the same place in life, needing to go ahead and develop a plan. I do feel that taking things as they come and deciding then is good, because each child is going to different in their level of maturity, responsibility, etc.

 

As far as teens having sex, safe sex education and the such, I have pretty strong opinions on wishing this country would get our fascination with sex under control. It may be leading to people not feeling so "victorian" about sex, but is it really helping our society as a whole? I get tired of every magazine cover talking about advice on detailed aspects of it. My kids could read early, so why should 5 years olds be asking what's an org***? (BTW,I don't know if I'm allowed to put the word. I'm not afraid to say it.)

 

My dh teaches in a school that has a very high rate of teen pregnancy and poverty. Our community has huge numbers of single mom households. Our kids have asked us why they don't see more kids out with dads. Honestly, he sees it actually celebrated in the cultures of his students. The music they listen to and things they watch are filled with sexual images. 14 year olds come up to him and proudly showing him pictures of their baby, when they are pregnant with number 2. The problem is they are continuing the cycle of poverty, and seemingly encouraged to do it. The education problems in that school are enormous, and a lot of it is the homes the kids are being raised in. Kids are raising kids, so education isn't important or passed on. His students have pitiful vocabularies and no desire to learn.

 

So seeing those results of the sexual revolution has discouraged me from jumping on the band wagon.

[PineFarmMom]

I agree with St Clair as far as the stats are concerned, stats are what they are. You may not agree with them as far as your personal experience is concerned but stats are about averages.

 

 

 

My point is that I doubt the statistics themselves and question the groups the actually cover and how far-reaching those groups are.

Edited October 23, 2009 by Texas T

[mom31257]

My point is that I doubt the statistics themselves and question the groups the actually cover and how far-reaching those groups are.

 

 

I agree. I don't put much stock in any statistics I see. Statistics can be manipulated to present just about anything you want them to. I got a survey in the mail, and the questions were worded in such a way as to elicit specific responses. My sister told me the way they came up with the autism numbers that are being advertised. They called several thousands parents and asked if their child had autism. They didn't ask for medical records of the diagnosis or anything. How accurate is that?

[hillfarm]

In a conversation with a fellow homeschooling mother of 3 preteen sons, I was horrified when she commented that my 11yo dd was quite popular with the boys. I was so not ready for all that her words implied. As soon as I was able to unstick my tongue from the roof of my mouth, I asked why dd was so sought after.

 

My friend laughed and said she had asked her sons the very same thing. Apparently it is because dd is not afraid to poke dead things with sticks and will bait her own hook.:tongue_smilie: Such an accomplished young lady!

 

Seriously though, we have tried to keep our flow of s*x education information up to date with dd's ability to comprehend and her hormones. Instead of keeping quiet about a few unwed teen girls we knew who became pregnant, we discussed the situation with dd and asked what she thought about it (her comment in one situation nearly caused me to roll on the floor, "Well, you would have thought she could have seen that he wasn't good breeding stock--even I can see that and I'm only 10.") We have discussed situations in our extended family where teen girls have made very poor decisions and what the consequences have been.

 

We are evangelical Christians, but I totally agree that we cannot MAKE dd follow our rules as she gets older. However, I believe we can educate her to the dangers and consequences and offer her as much support and sounding board as possible.

[justamouse]

at 13 I would let things happen in a group setting, or they would be invited to my house. But I wouldn't drop them off at the mall together. Something I learned from being a Big Sister-the more you dig your feet in about a girlfriend/boyfriend, the tighter they bind themselves to that person and start to resent you. You don't want it to be a us against them thing. So, sometimes you just have to watch it runs it's course and guide it so that their hearts aren't terribly broken and that it stays safe.

 

I'd say just make sure they know about safer sex practices. Other than that, I wouldn't worry about it.

 

I've found this to be true because when it comes down to it, you cannot control another person heart. When my Dd was 13 she fell hard into 'puppy' love with an older boy who was shipped off to Afghanistan. She had kept her feelings to herself (from me and him) and cried rivers when he left. But the one thing I learned is that you cannot make their feelings out to be less than they are. They need to be acknowledged and empathized with.

 

Quite untrue. Truth shows that sexual activity at too young an age leads to miserable sex lives and major baggage.

 

 

This is making me laugh. That may be your truth, but it's not mine. I'm with the That's Been Through The Cow poster.

 

At 13, I would stick with supervised movies at the house, outings with the family, etc. I wouldn't forbid the friendship or anything, but I'd do my best to keep it light and make sure she doesn't toss the rest of her friends of life in favor of time with him.

 

:iagree:

So if the OP is a conservative Christian she is going to resonate with all the conservative Christian responses more than mine. But I find them way out of my experience. I don't find my teens, when they spend time with a person of the opposite sex, rushing off to have sex with them, honestly. They have plenty of self esteem and we have open communication- my dd does share with me, deeply . I was a teen- and a promiscuous one- so I am not naive about what can happen, or the ingenious ways teenagers can keep secrets from their parents. But it is more likely to happen in certain situations- alcohol, low self worth, too strict parents, too lenient parents, bad peers- than in a situation where kids are nurtured and the communication is open, and reasonable boundaries are also set. Doesn't mean its not going to happen, but the projections people make onto teens seem rather that they have a deep fear around it all and want to control it far more than I feel comfortable with. I am into setting some healthy boundaries, watching like a hawk, but not that much into controlling my kids bodies and lives, after a point.

 

At 13? I just wouldn't worry. I would deal with things as they come up and use it all as a teaching and learning experience. The more open you can be about it, the more likely the kids will share with you, if they don't feel shamed into secrecy.

 

:iagree:My oldest son was sexually active and although I didn't agree with his decisions, or his girlfriend (and told him why without judging) I realized that the lines of communication were open and he was sharing with me instead of hiding it. That was a very good thing. Now that he is broken up with her, we talk about it even more and he admits I was right. It was a learning experience-one that hurt him, but those lines are still open and he's growing. It's awesome to know that he trusts me like that.

 

Here's what I know from going through this with my oldest daughter.

 

Her sense of self is amazing. She knows she is going to college, what she wants to do and who she wants to be. Her self esteem is high, and so she doesn't go looking to a boy to lift it. She knows she is beautiful as she is, she is well loved and she is secure. Does she have boys follow after her? You bet. I would drive them home and they were copious in their praise of her brains and her beauty.

 

She flicks them off like gnats.

 

Her brother even warns them, "You are so going to get shot down."

 

They are just not mature enough for her, and she knows it. One of her best friends is 21 and is interning for a big city DA and is the same way. These girls have brains and they don't want to parent or coddle a boy. They want mates who will run along with them and they know there aren't many in thier age group.

 

So, what I'm saying is build your daughter up. Let her know that she is precious and smart and is capable of anything she puts her mind to. Be her strongest supporter and her biggest cheerleader and she will be able to navigate these waters without overturning her boat.

[StephanieZ]

:iagree:

I should know better than to enter into these threads because it seems all the most conservative people respond.

I dont have a problem with sex before marriage, or if my kids never get married.The marriage thing is a non issue for me, and that doesnt mean I want my kids to be promiscuous or to have sex early- its more the emotional health of the situation that I am watching for. So if the OP is a conservative Christian she is going to resonate with all the conservative Christian responses more than mine. But I find them way out of my experience. I don't find my teens, when they spend time with a person of the opposite sex, rushing off to have sex with them, honestly. They have plenty of self esteem and we have open communication- my dd does share with me, deeply . I was a teen- and a promiscuous one- so I am not naive about what can happen, or the ingenious ways teenagers can keep secrets from their parents. But it is more likely to happen in certain situations- alcohol, low self worth, too strict parents, too lenient parents, bad peers- than in a situation where kids are nurtured and the communication is open, and reasonable boundaries are also set. Doesn't mean its not going to happen, but the projections people make onto teens seem rather that they have a deep fear around it all and want to control it far more than I feel comfortable with. I am into setting some healthy boundaries, watching like a hawk, but not that much into controlling my kids bodies and lives, after a point.

At 13? I just wouldn't worry. I would deal with things as they come up and use it all as a teaching and learning experience. The more open you can be about it, the more likely the kids will share with you, if they dont feel shamed into secrecy.

 

I really appreciate your input, so please don't "know better" than posting!!

 

FWIW, Me, the OP, is not a conservative Christian. I am a liberal Christian. (LOL, don't hear that too often, but we are out here!) -- as in Episcopal, gay-bishop-supporting, earth-shoe-weariing, etc. :)

 

However, I do find that I learn so much from people of all different perspectives, including many conservative Christian moms. That's one of the things I love about these WTM boards is the clear evidence of how much we loving & involved moms have in common with each other. I think there is much more common ground than not, despite what many politicians and journalists (who thrive on discord) would have us belive. :)

 

I really appreciate everyone's insights. I am coming to feel much more calm about the whole thing after several days of reading your posts and discussing the situation with my in-real-life mom friends as well . . . and several more occasions for dd and the boy to be together. . . and more talks with dd and the other mom. . .

 

FWIW, for the last year I'd been referring to this boy's feelings (to a few close friends and to dh and dd) as him "being sweet on" dd and now I've referred to them as the other's "sweethearts" when telling my girlfriends about it (tho not to dd or the kids, etc). . . I don't know if that term has any official connotations but it felt right to me. . .

 

I actually feel uncomfortable a bit with the "hanging out" label as it seems like so many young people "hang out" with eachother in a rather uncaring way -- as in one (usually the girl) gets serious feelings and the other takes advantage and then there is just hurt all around. Maybe it was just my friends, but in college there was a lot of "hanging out" that seemed to involve the girl not getting what she wanted (a sweetheart!) and the boy getting exactly what he wanted. . . Just left a bad taste in my mouth, I guess.

 

I agree that the "dating" label and the "boyfriend/girlfriend" labels are pretty mature but am not sure that the connotations need be serious. . .

 

It seems a trend with the teens in our circle to get "married" on facebook! I don't totally get it but it seems to be totally play acting, with them marrying their friends -- either of the opposite sex or in at least one case two best girl pals (and that is not a romantic relationship at all!) I guess each generation has their own set of labels, lol

 

I surely hope and fully expect for any serious physical relationship to be many years down the road, but I realize I can't control that and so I want to be able to rely on dd to make her own wise choices.

 

One of the hard things for me in this is realizing I have to have *those* conversations with dd sooner rather than later, just so she isn't totally ignorant of the possible consequences of a relationship. Goodness, it was only a couple years ago, literally, that my dc realized it was *possible* to conceive children outside marriage!! I had to pretty much lay it out for them, as they were walking around thinking it was only possible to procreate in marriage! (I told them that people can breed just like animals, or they can make a family together . . . via marriage, etc!) A year or so prior to that I had to correct their impression that the act of kissing made you married! (All those disney fairy tales, etc with the kiss in the wedding!)

 

I guess this is all just one more parenting milestone that throws me for a loop. I remember so vividly the first times dd had an opinion at all that was resistant to me -- when she became a toddler -- how shocking the transition from parenting an infant to a toddler. . . Now the transition from parenting a child to a teen-turning-into-a-young-woman . . . I wasn't ready. Like every one here, I just want to be a good mom to her in this new phase.

 

My dd is a wise, beautiful, talented, frog-touching, boulder-climbing, wonder. She is a miracle. I just want to help her enjoy her childhood and her teen years, while preparing her for a happy and productive adulthood. I think dating was crazy, scary, heartbreaking and it was also tender, touching, exciting and fun. I don't want dd to miss one wonderful thing in life! I want her to have it all!! This is just a Big Thing and so I am working hard to do a good job at parenting her.

 

It would be easy for me to do this if I believed in the clear rules many families have, but I just don't believe in rules for the most part. I am lawless, lol. So, I will muddle along and make it up as we go and hope for the best. So far, so good.

 

*Thank you each for sharing your wisdom!*

 

My favorite poem (and one I listened to about 10,000 times during dd's infancy):

 

On Children by Kahlil Gibran

 

Your children are not your children.

They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.

They come through you but not from you,

And though they are with you yet they belong not to you.

 

You may give them your love but not your thoughts,

For they have their own thoughts.

You may house their bodies but not their souls,

For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow,

which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.

You may strive to be like them,

but seek not to make them like you.

For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.

 

You are the bows from which your children

as living arrows are sent forth.

The archer sees the mark upon the path of the infinite,

and He bends you with His might

that His arrows may go swift and far.

Let our bending in the archer's hand be for gladness;

For even as He loves the arrow that flies,

so He loves also the bow that is stable.

[PineFarmMom]

Not worth the pettiness

Edited October 24, 2009 by Texas T

[justamouse]

I'm not overly concerned at your laughter. I'll continue to lead my children towards wisdom and the real truth and away from foolishly ruining their bodies, emotions, and spirits.

 

 

Ha! And I'm not leading my children towards wisdom and away from ruining their bodies, emotions and spirits? Mine are doing pretty awesome, thanks. A friend of mine wrote this on a blog post that I won't link here because ..well, she doesn't need the flames. But I wish I had written it myself.

 

Okay, look…I was sexually active at seventeen. Do I regret it? Only my choices in partners, frankly. The actual sex wasn’t all that great, but because I was well educated on the topic of birth control, how to use it, and the consequences for NOT using, it didn’t ruin my life. Am I any less godly because I lost it early? That’s not for me to say. Do I want my kids to follow in my footsteps on this issue? HELL no…BUT…if they choose not to listen to my endless refrain of, “Wait, it’ll be better if you WAIT, please for the love of God, WAIT,” they’ll know how to use a condom.

 

Because really? Purity isn’t power. KNOWLEDGE is power. Teenagers have a nasty tendency to think they know best, whether it’s about the proper amount of time one should spend prepping for the geometry midterm or whether they should be screwing their significant others in the back of the nearest Chevy Bronco. Since they already think they’re invincible, let’s make SURE they know how to protect themselves against becoming parents too young and, incidentally, truly life-ruining consequences like AIDS, hepatitis, herpes and cervical-cancer-causing viruses. Whaddya say? Is it really that radical a concept?

 

The side benefit of all this icky education about sex is fewer unwanted kids being raised by under-educated parents, which have a tendency to be a drain on society. It never fails to amaze me how the very people who rail the loudest against “the government forcing sex-education on our families” (and for “government” in this equation, please read “your kid’s sixth grade health teacher,” a threat to our God-given liberties if ever I’ve seen one) in the schools are also the ones who ***** and moan about the so-called Welfare State. Fewer babies born to folks who don’t finish high school means fewer kids on public assistance, folks. Do the math. Literally.

 

Think abstinence education isn’t a widespread phenomenon in this country? Think again. Right now, it’s the ONLY federally funded sex-ed in the United States. The current administration has spent…wait for it…over a BILLION taxpayer dollars on trying – and failing – to get our kids to JUST SAY NO to sexy-time. Why do I say “failing?” Because abstinence education – which isn’t really education at all, but propaganda that in at least one case compares a non-virginal teenaged girl to a dirty toothbrush - doesn’t work.

 

This paraphrased from a recent UNICEF study (yeah, UNICEF, those pinko-commie-terrorist-liberals who have a vested interest in…uh…feeding hungry children): The United States has the highest teenaged birth rate among 28 developed countries. In Japan, Korea, the Netherlands, Switzerland and Sweden, less than 10 per 100,000 teenagers give birth per year. In the good ol’ USA? An average of 40 girls under the age of twenty per 100,000 pop out rugrats each and every year. And the numbers are highest in the Bible Belt, go figure.

 

Is this because other countries have higher abortion rates? No. The U.S. is currently holding at around 20 abortions per 1000 women per year, whereas European countries average around 12 per 1000.

 

The difference between countries where girls and boys don’t become mommies and daddies? SEX EDUCATION IN THE SCHOOLS. The real thing, with pictures and graphs and frank discussions that name body parts. Gross, I know. But apparently effective.

 

Here’s some more statistics for ya: In a study of 12,000 young adults who’d done the whole “purity pledge” thing, a full 88% said they went ahead and had sex with somebody before the walked down the aisle. Another study of 16,000 teens searched for and found no – nada, zip, zilch – difference in the number of sexual partners, STDs and pregnancies between “purity” pledging kids and sexually active kids (like me at seventeen).

 

One more statistic? If I haven’t already bored you to tears with all the hard numbers? If U.S. teen-pregnancy, abortion and birth rates were brought down to…let’s say…European levels? You know, where they teach ACTUAL SEX ED?? We’d save a billion dollars a year that at the moment goes to economic losses and health care costs associated with teens getting knocked up. This doesn’t even count the dollars we spend on treating teenaged STDs and their aftermath.

 

And yes, sometimes kids who are taught how to use contraceptives don’t use them anyway. And sometimes contraceptives fail. And wouldn’t we all be much happier and safer if our kids would just WAIT to become sexually active, preferably until we’re DEAD?? Of course we would. But so long as there’s a better-than-even chance that we can prevent SOME unwanted pregnancies and diseases among our kids, shouldn’t we give it our very best shot? I mean, isn’t that a true no-brainer?

 

In closing, allow me to point out that in the larger scheme of things, if MY teenaged daughter is sexually active, and YOUR teenaged daughter is sexually active, but only YOUR daughter gets knocked up? I WIN.

 

I’ll take my victory lap on the day my daughter graduates med school without a baby on her hip.

[PineFarmMom]

Sounds like we are at an impasse. The proof is already in the pudding for me, so I stand quite firmly in my views, thanks. :)

Edited October 24, 2009 by Texas T

[Karenciavo]

Ultimately, especially considering what you say in your OP, it helps if your child agrees with whatever you come up with, but I don't agree that if you disagree it will shut down communication. If either side becomes unreasonable, then yes, but if you're respectful and your daughter feels your decision is based on love for her and wanting the best for her even if you disagree communication should remain open.

 

We have a no dating till you are in a position to marry policy, we also hope the boys will not casually date once they get to that point. Both of my older two boys see wisdom in this way of thinking, haven't discussed it with ds7.

 

I've read so many great books on raising kids. . . I need some on raising teens! I need some guidelines for dating, courting, supervision, etc. -- with the aim of maintaining communication, respect all around, self control, etc.

 

I don't want to be unrealistic about this and I don't know that I actually want to impose *rules* on dd about what she can do with her own body. I have worked hard to teach my kids that they alone own their bodies and I don't want to muddy that or shut down communication. . .