Another Lynn Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Last year I had CW Aesop, tried it for a bit, sold it. All the LCC threads lately made me curious enough to try to understand the progym better. So the last few days I've been reading various threads here, other websites, blogs, etc. trying to understand the progym better. I still have a long way to go, but what I've read the last couple days makes me realize I had little (or no) understanding when I was trying CW. I think with CW (Aesop) I was trying so hard to figure out what to do each day and how to follow their instructions for incorporating spelling and grammar that I missed the point of the writing exercises. Or maybe I didn't stick with it long enough. Anyone else feel that way? If so, did you switch to a different progym curricula/book/guide? Which one? I'm not feeling the need to implement the progym immediately, but I would like to have a better grasp of how to use it later if we want to. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 May I confuse you even further? CW is not truly representative of what a classical progym education entailed. Originally, progression through the progym were rhetoric exercises, not writing, and were used with older students in developing the art of argumentation (as in not young children. Typically it was taught to boys over the age of 11.) CW is a modern spin on the progym. http://books.google.com/books?id=21ka6pWJ-pkC&pg=PR10&lpg=PR10&dq=progymnasmata+age+students+began&source=bl&ots=AbVgehiuFH&sig=QMoWCIfREoRkU7wQ8SmBxbcFcpA&hl=en&ei=yW7USqHHFsPN8Qa2j4iJDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=8&ved=0CB4Q6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=progymnasmata%20age%20students%20began&f=false) http://rhetoric.byu.edu/Pedagogy/Progymnasmata/Progymnasmata.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MariannNOVA Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 (edited) Last year I had CW Aesop, tried it for a bit, sold it. All the LCC threads lately made me curious enough to try to understand the progym better. So the last few days I've been reading various threads here, other websites, blogs, etc. trying to understand the progym better. I still have a long way to go, but what I've read the last couple days makes me realize I had little (or no) understanding when I was trying CW. I think with CW (Aesop) I was trying so hard to figure out what to do each day and how to follow their instructions for incorporating spelling and grammar that I missed the point of the writing exercises. Or maybe I didn't stick with it long enough. Anyone else feel that way? If so, did you switch to a different progym curricula/book/guide? Which one? I'm not feeling the need to implement the progym immediately, but I would like to have a better grasp of how to use it later if we want to. Thanks! My questions/thread are only about 1-2 weeks old on basically what you posted. It took me a couple of weeks to wrap my brain around AESOP -- and I was getting hung up at just the point that you mention (that I have shown in red.) When I followed the advice here, read the documents forwarded to me, and tackled one aspect of AESOP at a time, I became quite pleased with it and the results I was seeing. Last week, I truly let the grammar take care of itself in our Latin lessons (pronouns) and I focused on the re-telling aspect of AESOP. It's difficult for me not to try and do whole MAGILLA, but I am forcing myself to take that approach and we are having a positive experience. One week does not make a school year, and I can always tackle those areas that we are not doing right now a little further down the road. THAT is likely my issue and I do work on it every day.:001_smile: If I were going to leave CW (and that is unlikely) I would probably go back to IEW - which all three of my kids are comfortable with -- but they are loving CW. I like the 'non-formula' approach of CW. Edited October 13, 2009 by MariannNOVA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen in NS Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 I think with CW (Aesop) I was trying so hard to figure out what to do each day and how to follow their instructions for incorporating spelling and grammar that I missed the point of the writing exercises. I felt the same way about the WTM grammar and logic stage writing suggestions - trying so hard to implement them and understand how to implement them, that I didn't "get" the overall progression. It wasn't until I heard all three of SWB's lectures on the progression of writing skills, that I finally understood. And because of the way she laid things out in those lectures, I am going to wait until high school and then use her suggestions for implementing progym exercises (yes, from different books). It just seemed easier to me to wait til high school, because the foundations of summarizing and outlining and rewriting will have been laid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narrow Gate Academy Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 I would encourage you not to get bogged down in the spelling and grammar. Use the parts of the program that you need. I am happy with our current spelling and grammar programs, so I didn't want to switch to just using CW for either of those areas. With my oldest, I chose to skip the spelling and grammar portions completely for Aesop and just do the writing portion. With my second DD, I'm using those days to shore up a few skills that she needs more work on. On day 2, we did several lessons of alphabetizing the first few weeks, tried to determine the meaning of a word based on the context a couple of times, and are currently picking out words to look up in the dictionary. Once she comfortable finding words in the dictionary, we'll work on understanding the dictionary entry (ie. pronunciation, word roots, and figuring out which definition is correct for our context.) When we finish with the dictionary, we'll move on to the thesaurus (probably next year for Aesop B). For day 3, we are using the grammar this time around because I feel the reinforcement is good for her. All that to say that CW is designed to be flexible especially the Aesop program. It's OK to just focus on the writing part for Aesop. HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prairiegirl Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 I felt the same way about Aesop. I couldn't figure out what the purpose was behind all of those little exercises. We plugged away at it, though. I gradually gave up the spelling part. I still used the grammar part as we didn't use any other grammar program. I was a bit terrified at progressing on to Homer as I had heard scary stories about it. For some reason, I am not having any problems with it. I am just focusing on one step at a time for each day and not looking ahead. I am trusting that the program will take us where we need to go. I am not really answering your question. :D I just wanted to say that staying with CW was the solution to our problem. Have you looked at Writing Tales? I have heard good things about that program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yslek Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 I did something similar with Aesop last year. In my case, I just wasn't getting through everything I had planned, and needed to simplify somewhere. Plus, WWE had just come out, and I wanted to use that. ;) I sold Aesop, and finished out the year with WWE 2 (with both B & T.) This year we're doing Writing Tales 2, in preparation for CW Homer next year. (I kept reading all these great threads about WT and how well WT2 prepares students for Homer.) I REALLY like the way its laid out. The TM has things broken down by week and day, so I can see at a glance what I need to cover any given day. The boys are doing really well with it so far, too. Kind of makes me wish there were a WT3. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Another Lynn Posted October 13, 2009 Author Share Posted October 13, 2009 Thank you for all the helpful replies! I really appreciate it. I look forward to browsing Momof7's links later when I have more time. Let me ask this... One of the sites I read the other day gave examples of rewriting from a model as succinctly as possible, then writing an expansion exercies, a slant exercise, and another exercise entering the story at a different point, changing indirect dialogue to direct, etc. I don't remember seeing any of this in CW Aesop - did I totally miss the boat? Did we just not use it long enough? It just seemed like narrations with lots of grammar and spelling added in. Set me straight! Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Thank you for all the helpful replies! I really appreciate it. I look forward to browsing Momof7's links later when I have more time. Let me ask this... One of the sites I read the other day gave examples of rewriting from a model as succinctly as possible, then writing an expansion exercies, a slant exercise, and another exercise entering the story at a different point, changing indirect dialogue to direct, etc. I don't remember seeing any of this in CW Aesop - did I totally miss the boat? Did we just not use it long enough? It just seemed like narrations with lots of grammar and spelling added in. Set me straight! Thanks! I didn't stick with CW for very long and taught Aesops and Homer at the same time, but I think those examples are from Homer if memory serves correctly. CW does give lots of writing instruction, not just narrations, even at Aesops level. I dropped the program b/c my personal POV was that it made the writing process far more complicated than it needs to be. I am much happier teaching writing from a less "directed" manner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyNellen Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Changing indirect quotes to direct and vice-versa is in Aesop. Homer A has a lot of expansion/compression-type exercises. Entering the story at a different point (in media res) is covered in Homer B, as is telling the story backwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdeveson Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 I think with CW (Aesop) I was trying so hard to figure out what to do each day and how to follow their instructions for incorporating spelling and grammar that I missed the point of the writing exercises. This is a common complaint about CW. The program itself is wonderful. We're doing Aesop B now and we're making good progress. That being said, the curriculum is extremely clunky and confusing. You have to jump around from one book to the other just to figure out how you're going to teach today. I I find the system awkward. The author could have done a much better job of it, but it is what it is. I still think it's good enough for me to wade through it every week to prepare for next week. If I were to find a program that is as good as CC, and has better support for the teacher, I'd ditch CC in a minute. It is the one subject that takes me longest to prepare for. I'm currently looking at IEW for next year. I love CW, but in middle school I'm going to be way too busy teaching to spend hours trying to decipher CC each week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Another Lynn Posted October 15, 2009 Author Share Posted October 15, 2009 I didn't stick with CW for very long and taught Aesops and Homer at the same time, but I think those examples are from Homer if memory serves correctly. CW does give lots of writing instruction, not just narrations, even at Aesops level. I dropped the program b/c my personal POV was that it made the writing process far more complicated than it needs to be. I am much happier teaching writing from a less "directed" manner. Thanks, Momof7. I always appreciate your experience and your perspective! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Another Lynn Posted October 15, 2009 Author Share Posted October 15, 2009 Changing indirect quotes to direct and vice-versa is in Aesop. Homer A has a lot of expansion/compression-type exercises. Entering the story at a different point (in media res) is covered in Homer B, as is telling the story backwards. Thanks Nancy! It is helpful to see which programs cover those specific exercises. Thanks for going to the trouble :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Another Lynn Posted October 15, 2009 Author Share Posted October 15, 2009 This is a common complaint about CW. The program itself is wonderful. We're doing Aesop B now and we're making good progress. That being said, the curriculum is extremely clunky and confusing. You have to jump around from one book to the other just to figure out how you're going to teach today. I I find the system awkward. The author could have done a much better job of it, but it is what it is. I still think it's good enough for me to wade through it every week to prepare for next week. If I were to find a program that is as good as CC, and has better support for the teacher, I'd ditch CC in a minute. It is the one subject that takes me longest to prepare for. I'm currently looking at IEW for next year. I love CW, but in middle school I'm going to be way too busy teaching to spend hours trying to decipher CC each week. Thanks Toni! It's good to know I'm not alone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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