bluemongoose Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 I know that BJU is considered rigorous, so when is the best time to start it? If you had to choose between 6th grade or 7th grade life science, which would you say is the best to start? I want to use Apologia's elementary science before I move them over to BJU because all of my elementary students can work together (thinking ahead here...not done having kids;)). What I don't want is to wait until it would be too big of a leap from Apologia to BJU. So is 7th an ok starting place or is it best to ease in with 6th??? p.s. I am NOT sciencey by any means, so I plan on using the DVDs for BJU. DH is very sciencey so he will help with Qs in the evening and on weekends. Same goes for math!:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiddenJewel Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 We started with BJU Life Science in 7th and didn't have any issues not having done BJU in 6th grade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemongoose Posted October 9, 2009 Author Share Posted October 9, 2009 Thanks HiddenJewel! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibbygirl Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 There is a big jump between 6th and 7th grade for BJU science. The 6th grade has one student text and one teacher text but the 7th grade has two texts for each! :eek: When I was doing my lesson plans for this year (7th grade) I had to plan to read a couple of pages of science each day of the week in order to finish it up by summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiddenJewel Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 There is a big jump between 6th and 7th grade for BJU science. The 6th grade has one student text and one teacher text but the 7th grade has two texts for each! :eek: When I was doing my lesson plans for this year (7th grade) I had to plan to read a couple of pages of science each day of the week in order to finish it up by summer. The Life Science is a very full course! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paisley Hedgehog Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 nm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom31257 Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 I'd say to start with Science 6. It is designed to be a full-year course and is an excellent overview of all disciplines (Earth science, Life science, and Physical science). Starting in 7th, they spend a full year on each topic. Also, it will give you a taste of what BJU expects from both teacher and student. Would starting in high school be too late? We started Rainbow Science this year (7th), and I had planned on doing BJU DVD's in high school. I like high school science a lot, and have taught Apologia Biology and Chemistry in the past. My degree is in math, though, so I thought the DVD's would be the best option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paisley Hedgehog Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 nm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 (edited) Well with all those great responses, I forgot what the question was, lol! Can I ask the ages of your dc? I think that's a great plan to use the Apologia elementary books in the early years. We did some of them and started BJU with their 3rd gr level. (We bump it up a year.) We enjoyed the 4th gr book a LOT, so I'd probably start there, just if I were picking a level. It's an easy one to add kits to like Snap Circuits, the 3D anatomy models, etc. That's why we had so much fun. The 5th gr book fell flat with us, but that was probably my fault, new baby and all. We're into the 6th gr book now, and it's a lot more fun. I went through yesterday making lesson plans for the next few months, and I'm looking forward to it. In my opinion, you can't know what science you'll use because you don't know the reading levels and work styles your dc will be at when they reach that age. Some kids NEED Apologia to succeed. BJU assumes a very solid student with reading who can read the textbook, answer study guides, etc. Half of the rigor is the reading comprehension, honestly. It gives my bright little one a run for her money. I'm with Shari that if you're just pulling a level out of a hat, it's good to do 6 to get in the swing of things for 7/Life Science. That way you don't have a shock or wonder what hit you and can work on textbook reading skills or any issues like that. I think it's the same teacher for the dvd in 6 and 7, isn't it? And doesn't she also teach note-taking skills, etc.? We're liking 6, highly recommend. And yes, I think BJU science is probably the ultimate of the common homeschool science options. That's just my personal opinion, but I'll keep it. It makes me chuckle how the Apologia elementary books and GDfS keep adding things like worksheets, etc. It's like they all want to become BJU. If you have a visual learner and want all those elements with workbooks, study guides, reading skills building, etc. BJU has it all, in one place, professionally done. It's pretty easy to implement at this level too. (4th-6th) At the lower levels it's light enough, and kids are so young, I'd feel free to just do what you want. We did all sorts of things, even on top of the BJU science. The usborne books are fun, books from the American Chemical Society, topical books, One Small Square, nature study, lots of trail guides. Just do whatever you like! You can alternate seasons of the apologia elementary (which I also like) with times where you do kits and things. There are lots of fun introductory books for kids where they cover simple machines, chemistry, etc. You'll have a two-page spread and then an activity. That became my absolute favorite way to work for elementary. So easy to implement, and once they hit about 8 they can do the whole thing on their own! That's the other thing you can't really predict, is how your oldest is going to want to become independent and what will fit them when it happens. You're just going to have to go with the flow. You may find yourself wanting dvd or computer-driven science to accomodate him, something like Science Explorations. So basically you could go into BJU any time between now and 7th and be fine. You'll know what to do when you get there. :) Edited October 10, 2009 by OhElizabeth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibbygirl Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 Can I ask the ages of your dc? My dd is 12 and a half. We're using BJU Life Science for 7th grade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom22ns Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 I did 6th with ds last year and I'm doing 5th with dd and 7th - Life Science with ds this year. 5th is just ok, but we LOVED 6th. It was a great intro to BJU science. The life science course is SO much more intense. You could start there without doing BJU elementary courses, but I think getting used to their style makes it a little easier. The 7th grade course is not all that different from my high school biology class and I went to a good high school and have a BS in biology. It is a lot of information crammed into tiny amounts of time and space. We do labs about twice a week. I think we will make it through the whole thing in a year though and if so I will be even more impressed :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paisley Hedgehog Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 nm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 Well I got confused there, because I was asking the ages of dc of the op. So do you feel like you got your question answered? I like the 6th grade book a lot, so I'd at least start there. 4th was good. 5th may just have been me. Some of this depends on how life goes, what mix seems good at the time, finances, whether you're pregnant, that sort of thing. The upper levels of the BJU science are NOT independent, so you have to have time or else $$ for the dvd's. The dvd's aren't actually that bad a deal, when you consider they come with the texts and tm's too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemongoose Posted October 11, 2009 Author Share Posted October 11, 2009 OhElizabeth- My Kiddo is in K (a young Ker, missed the school cutoff) and we are about to start Astronomy. DD is very bright and I try to get the meatiest stuff possible to keep her interested. I know that in thinking about this ahead of time I may have to change it up from what I am planning due to the child, finances, or needs at the time. I just like to have my ideal printed down, and if everything works out, follow that! If not...tweak it to fit. If upon arriving at 6-7th grade we can tell that BJU is too much, we will just go on with Apologia for her and the same with the others...but if they can handle it I want to give them the "ultimate" homeschool science! I think my real question has been answered, 6th is probably a better place to start BJU. I had thought this originally, but then apologia had the announcement of the two new books to the series and I started to question which I wanted to do. So thanks for the help! I really appreciate it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiddenJewel Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 Well I got confused there, because I was asking the ages of dc of the op. So do you feel like you got your question answered? I like the 6th grade book a lot, so I'd at least start there. 4th was good. 5th may just have been me. Some of this depends on how life goes, what mix seems good at the time, finances, whether you're pregnant, that sort of thing. The upper levels of the BJU science are NOT independent, so you have to have time or else $$ for the dvd's. The dvd's aren't actually that bad a deal, when you consider they come with the texts and tm's too. You also have the option of Dive into Science with the BJU high school courses. My dd did BJU Life Science and Earth and Space Science independently with no problems. She is also a very strong vocabulary and comprehension. BJU 7th+ could definitely be a struggle independently without that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 Mongoose, you should put ages and info with your little smilies... :) I'm thinking here what I would probably do. We did the Apologia elementary astronomy when dd was K5, and it was wonderful, definitely like that. You can use the astronomy books by HA Rey with it to good effect. We would trace the Rey constellations and put them into a notebook, fun fun. You can get star charts that glow in the dark for nighttime viewing. Lots of fun memories! We did some other things like some books by the American Chemical Society. I think in retrospect I would feel more free to do a lot of different things. I found my favorite way of working is very WTM-ish: read a two-page spread in the book and do a project. There are books on simple machines, chemistry, physics, all sorts of things. I'd feel free to do all kinds of stuff. The BJU4 was fun, but you could have covered roughly the same things other ways and in other curricula. I think some of the apologia books are disinterestingly hyper-detailed, but that's just me. So if you do a variety of things for a few years and go into BJU 6 in 5th (we're talking an advanced dc here), I think you'll be very happy. As long as her reading comprehension is good, I don't think you'll have any trouble. BJU at the lowest levels is sort of pesky with an advanced dc. There's not enough content to really satisfy them, but what there is is good. So you sort of end up enforcing the assignment and kicking up the level. A program that starts off with more detail or is more interest-driven will accomplish about the same thing more easily and with less stress. There's nothing done formally in those earlier years of the BJU science (3-5) that you can't repair or formalize quickly come 6 and later. That's assuming good reading comprehension, writing skills, etc. Now with all that said, I will say that the BJU science is a good way to build reading comprehension. Reading a textbook is very different from pleasure-reading and flying through fiction. You'll see that for yourself. When we introduce a concept early on that is typically considered hard or tedious (academic reading, grammar, latin, whatever), but introduce it while the dc is still young and adventurous, they seem to respond to the challenge as fun. Well that's going a bunch of no-where, lol. Have fun with your science. If you have fun, you won't have regrets. If you have a couple skill holes, you can make them up later. If you kill your joy and worry the whole time, you can't go back and change that. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 BTW, are you aware of the physics first movement? Just something more for you to read about, since you're researching, hehe. My nephew is in a school where they do physics in 9th grade. I thought it was crazy, but as I started researching on the high school boards, it appears to be the new thing. It makes sense when you think about it. You do physics in 9th, chem in 10th, and that makes a foundation for the biochem portion of bio in 11th. At that point the student is old enough and mature enough to do bio to the AP level and also do an AP physics (or whatever they want) class for 12th. And when you funnel back from that, you get physical science, earth science, and life science for 6th, 7th, and 8th. So if you do the BJU6 science in 5th (told you this was going somewhere!), you're in good position to get to physics in 9th. Physical science is the foundational course for understanding physics and chem, so don't skip that. I missed it due to changing schools and sequences, and I always wondered why that stuff in chem and physics was so unfamiliar to me, lol! So anyways, that's the research I did a month or two ago trying to figure out my junior high sequence. If you happen to like that, then it means you can basically do whatever you want between now and 5th, then go into the BJU stuff and be right on track formally. Oh, and my plans for junior high? You can go read the thread I had on the high school board. It involves rearranging the BJU stuff to be more logical and inserting a few other curricula here and there. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyAberlin Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 Where did Apologia have the announcement of the 2 new books and what are they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angela in ohio Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 It will depend more on their basic skills than their science background. My dd have each had little science background (we don't do science formally in K-5,) and they jumped right into junior high science. They do have great reading and study skills, though, which has been key. My second dd went from no science to BJU Earth & Space Science, which is the 8th grade text, because I wanted to combine them (7th and 8th are fairly even in difficulty.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemongoose Posted October 11, 2009 Author Share Posted October 11, 2009 LadyAberlin- http://www.jeanniefulbright.com/home.html OhElizabeth- I did have at one time the ages in my siggy, but I got tired of explaining myself when someone questioned why I was doing a 1st grade year with my 4yo. That whole better late....movement. It happens often (not much here, but on other boards a lot) so I rarely confess ages unless I feel like the person will give me real help without the need for me to defend myself...obviously you are one of those that understands the advanced kiddos and is willing to help :001_smile:. Ok you gave me a bunch of new stuff to digest....AH! So sorry if I am being tedious, but I am one of those has to say it back to get it people. You are suggesting that I start 6th grade BJU in DD 5th grade...Are you saying 5th as in when the school would allow her to go into 5th by age...5th by when she would go into 5th if I had tried to test her in early due to her late birthday...or 5th by when she is doing 5th grade work? Those are 3 different years!!! So 6th BJU in 5th and then BJU 7th in 6th, 8th in 7th, 9th in 8th, 12th in 9th?, 11th in 10th? and 10th in 12th? :confused: Sorry I think I am lost! Are you saying 12th would not be BJU but something else that is AP? If so where does BJU bio fit in or do you skip it altogether??:001_huh: As for comprehension and writing....she is doing really well right now, so as long as that continues, I do not see it being a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiddenJewel Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 So 6th BJU in 5th and then BJU 7th in 6th, 8th in 7th, 9th in 8th, 12th in 9th?, 11th in 10th? and 10th in 12th? :confused: I would only do BJU Life Science early than 7th grade with a student who was very advanced. It is very meaty! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyAberlin Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 BJU's Bio is their 10th grade science. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom22ns Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 I would only do BJU Life Science early than 7th grade with a student who was very advanced. It is very meaty! :iagree: I think that my dd who is in 5th could have handled the 6th grade text this year, but she would not be able to handle the life science in 6th, in spite of being very bright, reading well ahead of age level, etc. Ds is acing Life Science in 7th, but I think he would have hated it and really struggled to get through it last year. It would have just been to much. He is highly gifted and learns best through reading, but also has multiple LDs so it can be hard to judge what a more typical student will do compared to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 I was merely suggesting what it appears you've already figured out, that some kids will do better with the materials advanced. You need to look at the materials yourself when the time comes and see what you think. I haven't really sorted out what we'll do next year for science. I need to see them in person. I'll probably get around to that in January. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemongoose Posted October 12, 2009 Author Share Posted October 12, 2009 OhElizabeth...I really appreciate you taking the time to give me thoughtful responses. Hopefully you dont see my confusion as a negative thing. I am running on lack of sleep, so little things confuse me right now LOL! I am going to spend a while to think about what you have put out there....I will be following your posts to see what you end up doing next year, so do tell! And yes....I am figuring it out along the way that some kiddos like to work at a more advanced pace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paisley Hedgehog Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 nm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemongoose Posted October 12, 2009 Author Share Posted October 12, 2009 Thanks Shari...that is a good point! Debbie...that is interesting as well. I wouldn't want to start 6th early to only get roadblocked in with 7th. I am having to learn how to balance this "advanced" thing. It is not straight across the board in each subject. For example... DD is just starting Singapore 1A, but she is 3/4 done with 1st phonics. We have been using Lit (read aloud) and Soc Studies at a 1-3 grade level as her comprehension is very very good. She surprises me all the time with the things she has worked out in her head. We are going to start Science soon, so I don't have any idea how that will go, but she loves all science type books we have checked out so far, so I am sure she will love it. I am not seeking a label for her, I am just trying to figure out how to meet her needs academically. I'll just keep mulling this over.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 I don't think you'll get roadblocked. I HAD to put my dd in the 6th gr BJU science, because she was bored, even with compacting. The Life Science has pretty densely written text and it assumes a certain thought process. What I'm thinking though is that by rearranging the sequence and putting in a couple other texts here and there we'll be fine. Remember BJU's junior high and high school sequence doesn't match what you'll want for a Physics First (Physics in 9th grade) approach. I'm very sold on that in my mind, so it's just a matter of working backward. I want to see the Earth Science and Physical Science books in person to see if one of them might be doable for us next year. That would leave Life Science to either 7th or 8th. It actually seems, on reputation, to be harder than the others. But like I said, I haven't seen them in person. I just don't think it's going to be an issue to find something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiddenJewel Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 I don't think you'll get roadblocked. I HAD to put my dd in the 6th gr BJU science, because she was bored, even with compacting. The Life Science has pretty densely written text and it assumes a certain thought process. What I'm thinking though is that by rearranging the sequence and putting in a couple other texts here and there we'll be fine. Remember BJU's junior high and high school sequence doesn't match what you'll want for a Physics First (Physics in 9th grade) approach. I'm very sold on that in my mind, so it's just a matter of working backward. I want to see the Earth Science and Physical Science books in person to see if one of them might be doable for us next year. That would leave Life Science to either 7th or 8th. It actually seems, on reputation, to be harder than the others. But like I said, I haven't seen them in person. I just don't think it's going to be an issue to find something. The BJU Earth and Space Science is on the same skill level as the Life Science. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyAberlin Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 OhElizabeth where did you read about the Physics first movement? I'd like to look into it. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angela in ohio Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 The BJU Earth and Space Science is on the same skill level as the Life Science. This is true. If I was pressed to say that one was more difficult, I think I would actually say the Life Science. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 It's not just difficulty of the material though. If your student is interested in something, they're going to step up to the challenge of a more difficult text, where they might wilt with a hard text on something they don't like. Timing. I don't know. I'm just gonna have to see all these things in person and choose when the time comes. I'm not even thinking about it for a while yet. She's growing so much, she'll be a totally different person by next fall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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