LauraGB Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 (edited) I think my dog has pica. She is a 6 month old lab mixed w/some kind of hound. She is small, about 35 lbs. She eats everything. From the top of my head: shoes (3 pair, 2 pair of slippers), socks, pencils, pens, blankets, towels, toilet paper (eats them right off the holder!), tissues, legos, and so much more. She even shredded and ate the foam insert of a cushion from one of our couches. I don't mean that she shreds most of the above, she eats them. One good thing is that she seems to have outgrown raiding the litter box. Last week she was vomitting all day. In one of the piles of vomit, I found part of a latex glove. The only way that I can see that she would have gotten this is if someone left the door to the closet where we keep the garbage can. Shortly after that, I had to help her by pulling a very long (about a foot long or so) piece of weed barrier from her behind that was too long to express herself. She has regurgitated at least 2 socks of which I am aware. We have used bitter apple spray, but unless we were to apply it hourly to our entire house with a paint sprayer, it only momentarily deters her. She gets at least 30 -60 minutes rigorous outdoor exercise daily. We walk her. She has all manner of heavy duty chew toys; kongs, nylabones, etc. We reprimand her and redirect her to something she can chew on, but she prefers the sneak attack (it is not uncommon to walk into the dining room and see her ON the table looking for pencils). We have "puppy proofed" the house as adequetly as we possibly can considering some things cannot be helped always. She is kennelled when we are not home. I've spoken to the vet about this and she suggested we get insurance for future stomach surgeries to remove items. She said it is typical behavior for her breed(s). She is a good, sweet girl. She's smart and does will with commands; sit, stay, come, etc. I don't think its an obedience issue. She is incredibly food driven. I don't want her to kill herself in her quest to find a new snack. Any advice?! (Btw, I addressed Hornblower because about a year ago, you gave me some very helpful tips and info for assistance with our golden who was to undergo a second acl surgery. We have since lost her due to incredible complications with healing from the second surgery, but I don't think I ever thanked you for your advice. So, thank you :)) Edited October 4, 2009 by LauraGB it sounded like my vet was a good, sweet girl... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st_claire Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 Does she have chew toys? You should praise her lavashly when she chews those. If she chews something else, take it away and give her the chew toy. How is she getting to all these items? I would make sure that until the issue is resolved, she is not allowed out of her crate unless she is attached to you by a leash and/or you are activly watching her. It's up to you to make sure she doesn't get to these items. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LauraGB Posted October 4, 2009 Author Share Posted October 4, 2009 (edited) Does she have chew toys? You should praise her lavashly when she chews those. If she chews something else, take it away and give her the chew toy. How is she getting to all these items? I would make sure that until the issue is resolved, she is not allowed out of her crate unless she is attached to you by a leash and/or you are activly watching her. It's up to you to make sure she doesn't get to these items. She has tons of chew toys (all tougher textures, colors, shapes, etc) and we do redirect her. She doesn't love them as much as she likes the things she isn't supposed to have :glare:. We have proofed the house as well as we can - things we use regularly are placed high enough where she shouldn't be able to get them, but she is quite agile. I cannot hide the couch or the toilet paper ;). We have taken all the necessary steps within reason (kids live here, too) to keep dangerous items away from her. When she was a baby, we kept her leashed to one of us at all times. This is more difficult now that she is older. I hate to kennel her all the time because we want a companion, not a dog in a cage. And she has a terrible howl and painful bark, which she will do until we let her out to come lay by where ever we are. It breaks my heart (and honestly shatters my nerves) to hear her sound so pathetic when she's in the kennel and were are home. I am hoping to find some advice about how to train her to leave inedible things alone. Edited October 4, 2009 by LauraGB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st_claire Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 But how does she get the item in her mouth long enough to eat it? As I said, crate her and only let her out while you are activly watching her. If you don't have time to watch her right then, she goes in the crate. After a few weeks or months, you can very slowly start to give her some more freedom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadiegirl Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 I think if your patience with her holds out, you'll see a huge difference in another 6 months or so. I know, from personal experience, that that seems like forever when you are dealing with a garbage disposal! We have one and her name is Sadie---she went thru everything when she was a pup and then bam! She quit. We always crate trained her and let her out when we went outside and ran and played her ALOT...during school and at night, she was in her kennel with LOTS of chew toys. When she got most of her adult teeth was when we saw a decline in her destructive chewing. We now have 2 Labs and they love to chew but we give them hoofs, and Kongs. Plus, I still think the key to it is plenty of exercise...my boys run them with 4-wheelers and we also play catch with Sadie in the lake(she retrieves a dummy duck!) Good luck and hope it works out as these dogs are incredible family dogs...worth the effort in the long run!(My sister-in-law had a yellow one that was similar to yours and she gave up on it and let it run wild and it eventually got hit by a car and had to be put down...she didn't understand the age and breed of the dog and thought it was a problem! very sad situation) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingersmom Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 I had a Norwegian Elkhound who I would describe as a Hoover vacuum. Anything in his path he would suck up (he would reject things though). I had a German Shepherd who did not like walll to wall carpeting so he ate it (not pretty). I put child locks on the cabinet with the garbage can and later switched to one you had to step on. It was kinda like having a baby around the house, you just dont leave things lying around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonshineLearner Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 I'm not Hornblower:-) BUT, if she has stuff in her like string.... DO NOT pull it out!! You let them poop.... and you can cut it to where it should be even with their little "tushie" but don't pull! You can cause damage. With ours, when we first got him, he chewed paper towels, and it took me forever to realize what he was eating. Crate, leashed to someone... those are good hints. I did move the trash to a little metal one with a lid... on the counter. If he got into something and I knew about it, a banana was the trick that would make everything ok. If I needed him to kinda hurry things through... banana and liver.... Kongs. If you're feeding dry dog food... this is what I did. I purchased 3 or 4 black kongs (tougher durability) I took dog food, put liquid in it.... put in freezer and he ate that for his food. (Doggie Popsicles) I remember praising God, literally!! 45 minutes of him being entertained with food!! It was INCREDIBLE! Then, I had a kong washer... ( kinda like a bottle brush) and I'd wash and refill for the next meal. I fed him twice a day. (I'm not sure... maybe it was two kongs a meal??) When they were freezing, I put a cup underneath so that it catch any "juice" and you can experiment with putting something on the little end side to help keep it all in while freezing. Lots of ball throwing. When your puppy is being bad, you roll up a newspaper, and hit .... YOUR head:-) with it and say "Bad Mama" cuz it means they are bored... and they need something to do... At least that's what our trainer told us:-) Carrie:-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MommyOwl Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 Your puppy may need some additional 'mental' stimulation to wear her out. Daily obedience work in addition to her physical exercise may help. A local trainer or pet store with obedience classes can help you out if needed. They can also teach you how to teach her to "leave it." (Basically, you put her on a leash, walk her past an tempting item and say "leave it" with a firm but gentle tug on her leash and continue walking by. Praise her with a pat, piece of kibble or a toy. Repeat...and repeat...and repeat...:)) Some other ways to tire her out mentally... *Stuff her kongs with melted cheese, peanut butter, frozen dog food, etc. There are recipes on-line. You can do the same thing with other hollow bones. Adjust her meals accordingly so she doesn't get fat :lol: *Rotate out her toys like you would with a young child. If it's out all the time, it's boring. *We just made a special feeder for our two very high energy wiems - my BIL who trains dogs gave us the idea - take a 2in. pvc pipe cut to about 18/24". Seal one end and on the other end, attach a top that can screw on. Drill a hole (or two) on the side (long-end of pipe) large enough - but not too large - for dog kibble to come out one at a time. Your puppy will need to work hard to get her dinner - and it is kind-of loud as it bangs all over the house - but hopefully it will exhaust her. One of the most difficult things we had to do was teach our dogs to hang out in their crates quietly when we first got them (one was a puppy, one was a 1-1/2) when I couldn't watch to keep them out of trouble. Don't worry that she will be crated forever - she will eventually mature. Stuffed kongs worked wonders and I didn't feel so guilty when they were crated; so did the well-timed squirt with water along with the command "Quiet!" It takes a long time - and ignoring the whining can be dreadful - but hang in there:). Best of luck - she sounds like a real sweetheart and will bring your family many years of joy! Mary Alin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LauraGB Posted October 4, 2009 Author Share Posted October 4, 2009 Thanks so much to everyone for taking the time to help me out! There are some really great suggestions we need to start implementing. I guess I need to get over the guilty feeling I have about the kennel and start using it more as a tool rather than simple confinement. With our other dog, we never even owned a kennel until she needed to stay put for healing from her surgery. All these behaviors are completely new to us. There's just something about seeing the poor thing behind bars, you know? But, I suppose better there than in an urn. And the door is always open, and she does go in there to snooze or hide things, so she doesn't exactly dislike it. And about the helping her with the weed barrier thing - I know! I totally panicked! I could not think AT ALL! She was dancing around, terrified, then the kids started freaking, and then I couldn't think at all! (Obviously, I do not do well in a crisis situation; no nursing for me, thanks) And it was even more alarming when I pulled it out the last about 4 inches - the texture of the weed barrier twisted like it was to conform looked a lot like an intestine. I seriously panicked. I thought 'Oh my gosh, I killed the dog!' When I figured out what it was, well, then I was relieved and quite frankly, pretty mad. Thanks again...going to print off all the suggestions and go over them all with the fam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LauraGB Posted October 4, 2009 Author Share Posted October 4, 2009 My sister-in-law had a yellow one that was similar to yours and she gave up on it and let it run wild and it eventually got hit by a car and had to be put down...she didn't understand the age and breed of the dog and thought it was a problem! very sad situation) :crying::crying::crying: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elizabeth Conley Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 (edited) Crate the dog unless she is directly supervised. Crate her in the most used room in the house. Only let her out when someone's on duty. Sure, the dog-duty person can also be doing his/her schoolwork or peeling potatoes, but the dog-duty person must be reasonably on task. The dog-duty person's job is to correct and redirect the dog from chewing. After a while, when the dog no longer acts out while the duty is present, then the duty may go to the bathroom without the dog. If the dog can handle this, then the duty can range farther and longer. The goal is for the dog to be able to keep from eating non-food items while in that environment. After a while, extend the dog's territory to a second room, with the dog-duty system still in place. Transfer ownership of the dog's consumption of non-food items to the duty, and to the adults in the home. If she eats something she shouldn't, then the humans have fouled up! Issue yourselves stern lectures, swat yourselves on the noses with rolled up newspapers, and try, try again. Eventually your dog will outgrow the worst of this, and establish a new pattern of behavior. I'm not sure when the dog will be entirely reliable while alone in the house. Always, always crate the dog if you're going to be gone for a few hours or more. Until the dog can keep out of mischief for a few hours while the people are home, don't even try to leave without crating. Keep in mind that your dog is in real danger from the non-food items it is ingesting. Pennies are toxic. Other coins are pretty bad. Shrimp or crab shells have been known to kill dogs. Some odds and ends like trash bag twists still contain lead. One of my friends paid 5000 dollars in emergency vet bills because her boxer consumed an entire bottle of gorilla glue, which it was unable to pass. This is life or death, so don't place your young dog in situations she can't handle. Edited October 4, 2009 by Elizabeth Conley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elizabeth Conley Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 We went through this with both of our golden retrievers, who both matured into lovely ladies. Since our standard joke about hard times is "This too shall pass - like a dog straining out a peach pit", we've been largely philosophical about this. Our favorite way to buy time from a naughty puppy is do unroll a newspaper sized sheet of rawhide and spread peanut butter in it, then reroll it and give it to the young dog. This usually keeps them entertained long enough for the humans to get a two hour break from puppy minding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vettechmomof2 Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 Everyone gave some really great tips for you. THe only other thing I will say is that she needs MORE exercise. A tired dog is one who is unlikely to do much damage. A young dog like her and being working breeds as well NEEDS things to do. 60 minutes a day is a nice start but she needs more. You need to tire her out. Also, do not pull anything out of her bum, cut it off and watch for signs of an obstruction. Puppies and young dogs can be tiring and most will grow out of this to a point but remember that not all will. You need to secure your house. baby proof it. We keep our toilet paper on a top shelf next to our toilet for that very reason, and our cats:glare:. Cabinet locks are used, kenneling when we are not home and our puppy(who is 20 months old) still gets a nap. Again exercise, exercise, exercise. Training in short increments and ball playing or whatever fun activity should be done on top of the exercise though. You need to keep their mind worked. Take her to a new park, obedience class,etc. The change in environment can actually tire them out for you later because it is working the mind more, new things to sniff and to look at. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornblower Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 Hi Laura - You've had tons of great advice already. She's just a baby - well, a toddler! - and since it's in her nature by virtue of breed & temperament, you just need to supervise her a lot more. I'd really keep her tethered to you or in the same room so you can always watch her. For quiet time I'd put her in an x pen or an oversized crate & yes, rotate the toys. Pups this age can over tire themselves & sometimes you need to put them down for a nap just like a toddler. I personally think the chewing when it's excessive can be displacement activity for an overly stressed or prematurely weaned dog so think about whether that's her case & whether you can incorporate calming routines into her life. I also ditto the exercise. WAY more. Don't over do running & chasing balls - that can stress their joints. Instead they really need long rambling walks with lots of opportunity to sniff & play time with buddies. At this age, I'd say 3 1/2 hr walks + play time + several small clicker training sessions. Get her brain working on problem solving (clicker training is so great for that) & that will tire her out. Remember she has a short attention span so keep training brief but frequent.... I'd feed her twice a day or more & put all her food in a kong & freeze it so she needs to work at getting it out. Also I'd implement a bit of leadership training by using the techniques in this article called "leading the dance" http://www.dragonflyllama.com/%20DOGS/Writing/LTD.html Start getting it firmly in her brain that nothing great happens except through you. You are the route to all fun things & everything she wants happens when she pays attn to you & does something simple as a sit. Try out some toys from canine genius http://www.caninegenius.com/ rotate the toys, offer new things. I know at least one tech who says she'll never adopt a lab or lab cross because of the # of surgeries she's assisted at & the things they've pulled out of lab tummies :tongue_smilie:. OTOH, the woman who does malamute rescue (I have a malamute X) has some really great photos of things her dogs have eaten - parts of a desk, gyproc walls, pieces of a deck....I know some mals have destroyed entire couches..... Some dogs are just orally fixated :D They do grow out of it eventually. Usually. ;) For her safety I'd work hard on the 'trade' bhvr so that she'll drop anything in her mouth at a simple command. Just in case you see her running off with a razor from the shower for example. Trade is a wonderful game & if you play it right, the dog will always give things up because you'll build a strong tradition of giving the dog something better. The Sue Ailsby site (the leading the dance lady above) has tips on this bhvr - it's a mix of Zen and Leave It. Best wishes & I'm happy to hear I was able to help you with your golden but so sad to hear you've lost her. The only thing wrong with dogs is that they don't live long enough... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LauraGB Posted October 4, 2009 Author Share Posted October 4, 2009 :) Thanks so much for all the great advice! It looks like we have some people re-training - I mean dog training - to do.;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonshineLearner Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 Of course, you realize, no blankets or pads in the crate/kennel until you can trust her with them. Surgeries are expensive..... Carrie:-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LauraGB Posted October 5, 2009 Author Share Posted October 5, 2009 Of course, you realize, no blankets or pads in the crate/kennel until you can trust her with them. Surgeries are expensive..... Carrie:-) LOL - learned that the hard way months ago. We had used a regular, washable bed pillow and case in there...once.:D I do feel bad that she lays in there on the cold plastic, so I put a rug in there and so far she has left it alone (the edges poke out around the kennel so she can't really get to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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