Catherine Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 (edited) I have noticed this before, but this year, "third grade" he is copying longer passages, and his utter inability to spell really shows-he can't even spell correctly when it is right in front of him!! He also leaves out words and phrases. I think it would be a bit draconian to make him copy the entire two paragraphs over. Wouldn't it? Or would you do this? What would you do? ETA: here is his copy of a narration that he spoke and I wrote. We did not edit the original for phrasing or sentences (run-ons, etc.). He is 8 1\4 years old: The book Paradise lost was writtin by John Milton. He was blind and so he told the story to his daughter and she typed it. The reason the book is called Paridise lost is because it is basically the first chapter of the Bible. Its about how Adam and Eve lose paradise. At the beginning of the story, god creates Adam and Eve and the Earth and night and day and Eden. Then, Satan hides inside a snake, which did not alredy have its venom. and did not crawl on its belly it stood upright and Satan convnees them to do a wrong thing. At the end of the story, Michael shows adam the future. Then god shows Even in a dream. I included capital letters in the correct places when I wrote down his words. I also included commas although in some places he skips them and once he turned on into a period. TIA for any feedback. Just trying to get a sense for what is "normal"-this would most definitely NOT have been normal for my other two sons at this age. Edited September 30, 2009 by Catherine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katilac Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 He was working from a clean copy that you wrote, correct? With correct spelling and punctuation? I don't know if it would be all that effective to have him copy it over, if you think that he is making a genuine effort. How does he do on shorter pieces? I would back up to the point where he can neatly and correctly copy the passage, even if that's one sentence. (His narration can be just as long, just have him copy the first sentence instead of the entire thing). I'd stay at his 'perfect' level for a bit, and very slowly increase the level of copywork. Another consideration: are you nearby while he is doing copywork? His concentration and performance might increase if you sit with him and help him focus his attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catherine Posted October 1, 2009 Author Share Posted October 1, 2009 I think I need to make a very neatly printed, or typewritten, copy, just to be absolutely sure he can see it properly. Yes, I make sure that I punctuate, spell, capitalize, all words as they should be. No, my bad, copying is the one task that I do not sit with him for. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaichiki Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Perhaps, after he copies it, you could sit down with him and walk him through checking his work. When doing dictation and/or copywork with dd, I usually ask her: Did you start each sentence with an uppercase letter? (She looks and corrects the letters she missed.) How 'bout the names? Do *they* all begin with an uppercase letter? Go back and look at the type of punctuation you used at the end of each sentence. How many commas are in the original? How many do you have? Would you like to check your spelling? As she gets older I intend to write this down for her on a "cheat sheet" (just like above) and have her check it without me sitting right there talking her through it. Hopefully, she'll eventually memorize that list and maybe even catch the errors as she makes them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdeveson Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Ds used to have trouble copying from the start. In third grade I began to dictate to him. I dictated everything, including the punctuation. For example, I'd say: "Capital P - Peter wore his brand new red sneakers - period." I watched while he worked. If he began to write a word incorrectly, I'd correct him immediately. At first, we would stop me every 3 or 4 words and ask for spelling. I gave him the spelling and went on. As time went on, he needed less and less help with spelling and at some point he asked me to stop dictating punctuation because he wasn't a baby. :glare: He's a wonderful writer now. Not ever having copied didn't hurt him any. There are many ways to skin a cat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdeveson Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 As she gets older I intend to write this down for her on a "cheat sheet" (just like above) and have her check it without me sitting right there talking her through it. This is a great idea. My writing program (CW) uses a similar cheat sheet and once they learn how to use it, it works very well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerryAtHope Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Truthfully, the example you gave is much better than I expected from the description you gave--but that could also be because I have seen shorter copywork assignments that were much, much worse than this! Maybe your older two were just really gifted in LA? I don't think what you showed us is all that bad. What I would do is have him go back and edit the piece either later that same day, or the next day. Ask him to see what errors he can find. I use the COPS acronym--Capitalization, organization (includes neatness, legibility etc...), punctuation, and spelling. I have my kids focus on one at a time as they edit. If he doesn't find all of the errors, you could put a light pencil X next to each line, one for each error, or you could underline the words in your original copy that he spelled incorrectly. He can then find them and fix them. Also underline cap & punctuation errors. For my kids, this would have been a long piece to copy at the beginning of 3rd grade (we worked up over the year to paragraph length--although my daughter could have done it by Nov. or Dec. of her 3rd grade year), and really wouldn't have been too bad of a job. Encourage him to say the sounds as he is writing, and to chunk things by syllables. I notice that his errors tend to be on the words with more than one syllable, and that probably reflects his inexperience in writing longer words. Also, I'd make sure before he copies something that he can read all of the words. If he can't, show him how to read it and also how to chunk it into syllables. HTH some! Merry :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prairie rose Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Have you ruled out vision problems? My 9yo is is horrible at copying still. We took him in for his eye exam this week and found out he needs glasses. I would check his vision if you have not already done so recently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom0012 Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 My son has the same problem with copywork. At first, I couldn't believe how many mistakes he would make considering there was a correct copy right in front of him. If you think your child is putting his best effort into it, I don't think I'd have him re-copy it the same day. I have my son try to correct it himself and then I show him any additional mistakes. If there are a lot of mistakes, I have him copy it again the next day and he usually improves. I also have my son using the Daily Paragraph Editing books by Evan Moor and I think this has helped him see some of the things he needs to work on with his copywork. Lisa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom0012 Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Truthfully, the example you gave is much better than I expected from the description you gave--but that could also be because I have seen shorter copywork assignments that were much, much worse than this! :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchel210 Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Yes...I agree as well...My son also has Dysgraphia which is another reason he cant copy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 An easy experiment would be to give him very short copywork assignment and see if the same sort of mistakes occur. That would help determine if it is inability or inattention. (FWIW, I have never given my kids a copywork assignment more than a paragraph in length. I have a very specific purpose behind the copwork assignments I give.........sentence structures, various grammar/mechanic concepts, and paragraph construction.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen in NS Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 What would you do? I would go backwards, start over again with copying one sentence. Sit with him, correct him as he goes along. Ask him questions if you have to correct him - "What type of letter goes at the beginning of a sentence?" "What punctuation mark comes at the end of a telling sentence/statement?" etc.. With spelling, since the word is right in front of him, maybe have him say each letter or sound aloud as he looks at and then copies each one? Let him build up his skill and confidence by doing one sentence, then move on to two sentences, etc.. Slowly build success instead of correcting lots of mistakes that have already been made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonia Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 I would go backwards, start over again with copying one sentence. Sit with him, correct him as he goes along. Ask him questions if you have to correct him - "What type of letter goes at the beginning of a sentence?" "What punctuation mark comes at the end of a telling sentence/statement?" :iagree: Sit with him and correct his mistakes as they happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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