Teaching credentials (K-12 to university)

[mirth]

Does anyone see a disconnect between requiring teaching degrees within schools at the K-12 grades but none at all at the college/university and graduate levels?

 

Is the idea that teaching youth who have little formal education in any subject is more demanding on the teacher and not to be approached willy-nilly? [by this logic, shouldn't newborn care require all sorts of methodology certs and not be left to the layperson (i.e. untrained parent)?] Or is there just no coherent idea at all? I just find it weird that a high school senior who has just graduated from 12 years of classes taught, as a mandate, by certified teachers in State X's public schools can, a few months later, magically be expected to do just fine at University of X's undergrad classes (usually with 2-5X more students per class than high school days) where virtually no one has a teaching degree.

 

I would like to understand the logic behind this. Is there a well-accepted argument for this?

Edited September 8, 2009 by mirth

[snickelfritz]

in my state, without a teaching degree.

 

My state allows non-certified teachers(but they must have a relevant degree) to pass some tests and jump through a few hoops to be certified. My sister (who does some educational stuff through a university) tells me that our state has more alternatively certified math teachers than traditionally certified (ie....education degree.)

 

They have, in the past, allowed you to do the same for any teaching degree. As of, I believe November, all elementary teachers will have had to get the degree. This goes for special education, as well.

 

I have an engineering degree and got my alternative certification to teach physics and math for high school. I also TA'd for a college class back in the day.

 

Most college students are more able to learn (or they can learn to cope) via a lecture/discussions/study the textbook mode of learning. Some classes have labs, but most did not. And it was usually separate from the class, instead of directly tying in and reinforcing what we were learning. How many college students need to jump around on squares as they memorize something? Some? Maybe. But, that's a big part of how you would teach a kindergartener something. How many kindergarteners would be able to sit for a lecture, discuss it, read the book, and learn the material? You would lose a lot more of them than you would in a college class.

 

ETA: Do I think homeschoolers should have degrees? No. There is too much information out there to help anyone who's interested. Good curriculum that includes adaptations for ages. Advice on message boards, etc....:D

Edited September 8, 2009 by snickelfritz
I tend to go on, and on, and on.......

[lgm]

I've only heard the usual arguments that certification in a profession keeps out the truly awful. A college student, being an adult who is paying tuition, has more avenues to give effective feedback on the truly awful than does a minor child.

 

I'll also point out that in my state, 16 year olds are taking classes at the colleges nearby as a result of the high schools refusing to offer academic challenge and refusing to graduate them early. So, it's not just adult students in college classes these days.

[Julie in Austin]

I'm a certified teacher. Everything I did for that cert. was "classroom management," not content. So I can see why it would not be necessary for college-level educators, where you don't have to deal with behavior issues from students.

[kokotg]

My DH is a public high school teacher without a degree in education (he was a math major). At least in "critical need" fields like math and science, it's usually fairly simple to get certified without an education degree. He didn't even take any classes in education; just did a one year "mentorship" program while he was teaching. He taught for a year with a provisional certificate by just passing a couple of tests.

 

I was in grad school in an English ph.D. program before I had kids. Had I finished and gone on to teach at the college level, I would have had much more teaching experience (I taught 3 semesters of freshman writing, was a teaching assistant for one semester, tutored ESOL, and would have done more had I continued) and "training" (a one semester seminar on pedagogy and a 2 day workshop before each year started) in education than my husband did when he started teaching high school.

[Sputterduck]

My mother has taught graduate classes at a university for many years. She has no teaching credential. She does have decades of experience in her field. Expertise in your field is far more important in college than classroom management. College students shouldn't need to be managed. What they do need is to be taught by an expert.

[Audrey]

Does anyone see a disconnect between requiring teaching degrees within schools at the K-12 grades but none at all at the college/university and graduate levels?

 

Is the idea that teaching youth who have little formal education in any subject is more demanding on the teacher and not to be approached willy-nilly? [by this logic, shouldn't newborn care require all sorts of methodology certs and not be left to the layperson (i.e. untrained parent)?] Or is there just no coherent idea at all? I just find it weird that a high school senior who has just graduated from 12 years of classes taught, as a mandate, by certified teachers in State X's public schools can, a few months later, magically be expected to do just fine at University of X's undergrad classes (usually with 2-5X more students per class than high school days) where virtually no one has a teaching degree.

 

I would like to understand the logic behind this. Is there a well-accepted argument for this?

 

It's the difference between dealing with children and dealing with adults. As Julie noted, a teaching degree is largely comprised of "classroom management" classes -- along with a smidgen of pedagogy and how to read curriculae.

 

University professors don't need to know how to wrangle kids. If they act like children, we can just tell them to leave and that's that. We aren't obligated to hand-hold and coddle, nor do we care that little Johnny's mommy or daddy might get upset. By the time they set foot in our classes we expect them to act like adults. We know our subjects and have devoted considerable time to the methods by which to study them. We have extensive hours of work in our subject field that has given us the vast majority of what we need to teach it to others. Now, granted, some are far better lecturers than others, but this is true for people with education degrees as well.

[mirth]

Ok, I didn't know most teaching certs were in classroom management. So do preK , K, and special ed teachers need the greatest amount of certs?

[sbgrace]

My teaching credentials/class requirements weren't in classroom management. I went to a major state university with a recognized teacher ed. program. I had no classes in classroom management--a weakness really as it does matter and I think most teachers learn on the job.

 

I took classes in pedagogy (how to teach) and lots and lots in my core subject area. I received a middle/high school ed. degree. Maybe that's the difference?

 

Ironically, my master's level classes (M. Ed.) later on had a lot more classroom management stuff.

[Moni]

Does anyone see a disconnect between requiring teaching degrees within schools at the K-12 grades but none at all at the college/university and graduate levels?

 

 

I thought it had to do with the fact the students are minors, the schooling is more or less mandatory, and the credentialing being some sort of oversight for your tax dollars at work for the minors?

I don't think PS is all about the academics anyway, so there is that to consider too.

That and I am just guessing the in-state credentialing process generates some revenue for the State coffers? :lol:

 

But no, I don't give it much thought ;)

:seeya:

[Tabrett]

Ok, I didn't know most teaching certs were in classroom management. So do preK , K, and special ed teachers need the greatest amount of certs?

A teachers "certification" is not in classroom management, they just take classroom management classes or in my case developmental psychology classes:confused:. I had very little classroom management classes. I did have to take classes on how to develop a lesson plan (for children), using technology in the classroom and reading across the curriculum. The types of classes I just mentioned would not be necessary if you are teaching, a mastered subject, to a group of adults/student who can capable of college classes. All the education classes I had were designed to help you learn how to teach children and how to bring the subject down to their level. Again, not necessary for older student.

You don't have to have any type of certification to work in a prek program unless you work at a public school prek.

 

Most teachers are certified for a range of grades. I can teach k-12 all music subjects. The University I attended gave a certification for k-6 and 7-12 in your chosen field. In SC, I am allowed to teach one class out of my field. One year I taught an algebra class the next year I taught 6th grade math on top of my general music and chorus classes.