which writing curriculum for 2nd/3rd grade is like public school?

[Penelope]

I'm curious if anyone knows of and/or uses a more typical curriculum rather than WWE, CW, IEW, and the other ones that are popular here.

 

Reading over the 2nd grade standards for my state was quite an eye-opener. Informational writing using research from several sources, charts and graphs, rough drafts and then publishing a final? :001_huh: Persuasive writing? I know narration, copywork, dictation are building valuable skills, but it seems there are other skills (not only creative writing which I have no problem not requiring) that are not being addressed. I have read WWE hardcover, and TWTM, and CM. I don't know why I have trouble letting this go.

 

Anyone know of an inexpensive, more traditional writing resource that I could look over? I don't necessarily mean the creative writing prompts, I mean skills that are taught in typical schools that are not covered at this age with the classical approach.

[Samiam]

I think the reason you are not seeing those topics addressed in classical writing curriculums that you mentioned, is because those curriculums are mostly elementary age based. The classical thinking is to set the base, the groundwork, for this age. All of the things you talk about would come later, in the high school years, after the child has solid base in the basics.

 

The goal of classical writing programs is to turn out a wonderful writer, not just a copy-cat artist, so if a classical writing program or combination of programs, were followed through high school, I think all of the topics you mentioned would be completed.

 

I think the common thought is often that those topics are introduced to young, to random and to scattered, for a young elementary child to really grasp, comprehend, and perform. That is why so many students who come from public schools end up in college with very weak composition skills (according to certain college professors). Their writing "base" was never that solid to begin with, and then the writing blocks were haphazardly stacked through their school years.

 

Of course, that doesn't apply to all public school students, but it's the general thought of classical writing proponents.

[Tidbits of Learning]

Modern Curriculum Press has one called The Write Direction

http://www.textbooksheaven.com/servlet/the-641/Modern-Curriculum-Press-/Detail

If you click on detailed description it will tell you more info.

[Colleen in NS]

not just a copy-cat artist,

 

I think the common thought is often that those topics are introduced to young, to random and to scattered, for a young elementary child to really grasp, comprehend, and perform. That is why so many students who come from public schools end up in college with very weak composition skills (according to certain college professors). Their writing "base" was never that solid to begin with, and then the writing blocks were haphazardly stacked through their school years.

 

I was perusing a local advertising site last night, to see what tutors in my area are doing and charging. (I advertised services there last night, and wanted to see what kind of competition there is and how I could distinguish my ad)

 

A LOT of the English-skills tutors for high school and university were geared towards "fixing your essays!" "you supply the notes, I'll write your essay!" "I'll edit your essay and fix it for you!" type of thing. I didn't see anything about preparing high schoolers or university kids to write their own. It was eye-opening for me. I mean, I know editing is necessary, and it's necessary sometimes to have someone else look at it for you - but the "feel" I got was that most of the tutors were there to help with the "quick fix for class, so I can turn this paper in."

[MamaofTwo]

I was perusing a local advertising site last night, to see what tutors in my area are doing and charging. (I advertised services there last night, and wanted to see what kind of competition there is and how I could distinguish my ad)

 

A LOT of the English-skills tutors for high school and university were geared towards "fixing your essays!" "you supply the notes, I'll write your essay!" "I'll edit your essay and fix it for you!" type of thing. I didn't see anything about preparing high schoolers or university kids to write their own. It was eye-opening for me. I mean, I know editing is necessary, and it's necessary sometimes to have someone else look at it for you - but the "feel" I got was that most of the tutors were there to help with the "quick fix for class, so I can turn this paper in."

 

 

Wow! And this is how we prepare our future leaders? Yikes! I would like to think that by the time my girls reach high school/college they'll be able to write their own essays.:glare:

[Sue G in PA]

You might want to look at My Access Writing...the Buyers co-op has it as a group buy right now. It's all online and looks very cool. I was going to get it, buy my dh wanted to see what sort of instruction they'd get at the ps.:001_huh: Funny, but as my older kids begin ps this year, I was told by the testing coordinator that they were all weak in writing. Well, duh. That's b/c we followed the WTM/classical method of copywork, dictation, narration, etc. I don't agree with the methods used at ps. Making 2nd graders write research papers is absolutely ridiculous. I'm now in the spot where I want to continue w/ this classical method, but how do I do that when my dc will enter ps this year? I'm afraid the ps will ruin everything I've tried to do, KWIM? Anyway, I digress...hope you find what you are looking for.

[melmichigan]

Our public school now uses this and it is available to homeschoolers, and well reviewed although expensive.

 

 

http://homeschool-curricula.suite101.com/article.cfm/best_homeschool_writing_curriculum

[amsunshine]

This may not be much help to you, but I am toying with using IEW's Fables Myths and Fairy Tales or All Things Fun and Fascinating next year. These have a classical flavor, but also include an introduction to citing multiple sources, outlining and doing rough and final drafts. It looks to me like it represents a kind of "middle ground" between what is done in a typical classical hs environment and ps. Then, as IEW progresses into higher levels, other skills like expository and persuasive writing are brought in.

 

HTH.

Edited August 18, 2009 by amsunshine

[dragons in the flower bed]

Penelope,

 

Great Source's program, Write Source, meets these standards, and so does Write!: Foundations and Models for Proficiency.

[dancer67]

BJU is a typical PS writing course in their LA text. Write Source, and anything by Houghton Mifflin, McGraw Hill, etc...

Scholastic as well, but they are more supplemental. Public Schools like to use graphic organizers a lot too.

[FairProspects]

For Write Source, do you need the teacher's manual too? It seems kind of expensive and from what I could see, the student book looked pretty self-explanatory. Will the material be easy to teach without the teacher manual?

[talexand]

I used Write Source last year with my kids. In our case they go to school half time and year by year writing might be at home or at school depending on schedule. The school uses the 6-trait methos which is what is taught in Write Source. The kids do original writing very early. I like the Wtite Source textbook and tried to use it without the teachers guide but it is not broken down in sections that can easily be turned in a daily plan. There is a chapter on each style of writing that they will work on in the year (Descriptive, narrative, expository, etc.) Each grade goes through these styles but at a deeper level year by year, from what I have observed in the 2nd grade and 4th grade books. I had trouble turning it into a daily/weekly plan. I am not good at this in general so you might be better. It is also short on writing prompts. Of course you wouldn't just write one descriptive paragragh and then be done but there might be just one writing prompt in the book. Maybe the rest is in the teacher's guide or maybe there is another source or weekly schedules. Its also not hard to find a source of writing prompts separately but I just felt like something was missing.

 

I don't have the answer, I just wanted to share my experience.

[Penelope]

I think the reason you are not seeing those topics addressed in classical writing curriculums that you mentioned, is because those curriculums are mostly elementary age based. The classical thinking is to set the base, the groundwork, for this age. All of the things you talk about would come later, in the high school years, after the child has solid base in the basics.

 

The goal of classical writing programs is to turn out a wonderful writer, not just a copy-cat artist, so if a classical writing program or combination of programs, were followed through high school, I think all of the topics you mentioned would be completed.

 

I think the common thought is often that those topics are introduced to young, to random and to scattered, for a young elementary child to really grasp, comprehend, and perform. That is why so many students who come from public schools end up in college with very weak composition skills (according to certain college professors). Their writing "base" was never that solid to begin with, and then the writing blocks were haphazardly stacked through their school years.

 

Of course, that doesn't apply to all public school students, but it's the general thought of classical writing proponents.

 

Thank you.

 

I hear you on public schools generally not producing good writers. In high school I was cloistered with the honors students so it wasn't until college when I looked over friends' papers that I saw how many college students could not form grammatical sentences and coherent paragraphs.

 

I do understand the classical philosophy, I think. I just don't know if I agree with it completely. I agree with the foundational ideas, but when I see that fourth graders in WWE are still only just writing narrations and taking dictation with no other independent writing, I feel concerned. Maybe my issue is that I do want to build the foundational skills, but I am not sure my son needs to go through all 4 years of WWE at that pace. Maybe I need to spend more time looking at other classical writing programs that move ahead a little sooner.

[Penelope]

Thank you, everyone, for the other ideas and links! I really appreciate it.

 

I should clarify that I'm not necessarily wanted to replicate the public school. I just want to familiarize myself with some of the assignments they might be doing at a given grade level, and some of the teaching ideas. Like many here, I have mainly been of the mindset that public school methods= bad= poor writers. I guess I just want to see and compare up close, for myself, and see the differences in technique.

[amsunshine]

I do understand the classical philosophy, I think. I just don't know if I agree with it completely. I agree with the foundational ideas, but when I see that fourth graders in WWE are still only just writing narrations and taking dictation with no other independent writing, I feel concerned. Maybe my issue is that I do want to build the foundational skills, but I am not sure my son needs to go through all 4 years of WWE at that pace. Maybe I need to spend more time looking at other classical writing programs that move ahead a little sooner.

 

I'm definitely not an expert at this and am still feeling my way through, myself, but....here's what I think:

 

WWE is just one interpretation of what classical writing should look like for grammar stage -- and even SWB implies in WTM that WWE is geared more toward average to more reluctant writers. She suggests other programs for less reluctant writers in the grammar stage (Writing Strands or IEW). Further, there are other classical writing programs to consider: i.e., CW, Writing Tales and IEW, to name a few.

 

Also, you could always go through WWE at a faster pace -- according to your child's needs and abilities.