SWR problem

[Bokons]

Ds7 is up to list J-4 in SWR, so he knows all of the phonograms now. The problem is that he doesn't use them when he is reading. For example, when he came across the word "points", he didn't see the phonogram "oi" unless I pointed it out to him or gave him hints (what phonogram do you see?). Even then, it might take him a while to see it, but if I show him the phonogram card, he can say it. This happens with other multi-letter phonograms as well.

 

Will it just take time for him to become a fluent reader? He is doing CLE math 2, and half of the time, I still need to read the directions to him. I was thinking that maybe I should use something like OPGTR to get him reading fluently, and just use SWR for spelling. This is my first time teaching one of my dc to read using SWR.

 

Any suggestions appreciated.

Edited July 13, 2009 by ballzy
typo

[fractalgal]

Ds7 is up to list J-4 in SWR, so he knows all of the phonograms now. The problem is that he doesn't use them when he is reading. For example, when he came across the word "points", he didn't see the phonogram "oi" unless I pointed it out to him or gave him hints (what phonogram do you see?). Even then, it might take him a while to see it, but if I show him the phonogram card, he can say it. This happens with other multi-letter phonograms as well.

 

Will is just take time for him to become a fluent reader? He is doing CLE math 2, and half of the time, I still need to read the directions to him. I was thinking that maybe I should use something like OPGTR to get him reading fluently, and just use SWR for spelling. This is my first time teaching one of my dc to read using SWR.

 

Any suggestions appreciated.

 

You might try AAS. It could be used as a review. Now that your son knows the phonograms, he could work through AAS which introduces the phonograms more slowly and then reinforces them. After using SWR, AAS will seem easy to him and probably build his confidence.

 

Another thing that might help is Phonics Pathways which groups the words together in lists with similar phonogram sounds.

 

My daughter was able to use SWR successfully without much review, but for my 6yo son, I find myself wanting to reinforce SWR with something else for similar reasons as yours. Sometimes my son will recognize the multi-letter phonograms and sometimes he misses them and sounds them out seperately.

 

Perhaps part of the issue is that your son is still quite young and has only been exposed to the words/phonograms for a short time that eventually with more practice he will understand them when he sees them.

 

Good Luck :)

Edited July 12, 2009 by fractalgal

[PeterPan]

Are these books he is trying to read, or books you assign to him? Remember, SWR encourages no forced reading. In other words, if he can't read it, you don't need to push him to but can let the process work out. He's only at list J4 which, despite his age, means he can decode at a late 1st grade level. That means he'll comfort read a K5 level book. We're talking stuff like Bob books, Go Dog Go. If is beginning to comfortably read books like that, then I'd leave him alone and keep going with SWR.

 

If he is not moving toward books like that on his own, you might give him a gentle nudge. When my dd was at that stage, not quite taking off yet, I made booklets using her SWR words, putting one sentence on each page of a little folded booklet, then letting her illustrate as she read it. That way there's no pressure, but they're moving forward with their skills. If you come to a word he doesn't know, no problem. Just explain the sounds using the SWR techniques and move forward.

 

Make sure you reread your SWR manual to get more tips and ideas. There are lots of gems in there, and you don't necessarily see them all the 1st time through. Did you make flashcards for him to practice reading his spelling words? Have you gone back to the beginning and repeated lists? Sanseri wants you to go back and repeat lists, so everything gets hit twice. With my dd I repeated those lists 3 times!!! But when she took off reading, wow did she take off. To me it sounds like you're ready to go back to list A and start over. He'll do them faster and on a whole new level, because it's familiar. It will probably solidify some of the things he's struggling with, because he'll see the finer details in the context of things familiar. SWR is not just about rushing forward but about going back and reviewing too. Don't be afraid to do that. Those test scores on diagnostics are NOT just a reflection of how far forward you go in the lists, but of how well things are clicking in their minds. That's why Sanseri cites evidence that you can teach a whole classful of kids with lists that are too easy for them and they STILL PROGRESS. I saw it quite a bit with my own dd. Don't be afraid to go back and repeat those earlier lists!

 

When you go back, you can do things in new ways. If you skipped the enrichments, do them this time. You might like to get the My Wise Grammar (is that the right name? I forget) they sell that makes it easy and has phonogram practice built in. I liked dictating the Wise Guide sentences. Play phonogram bingo. Do a learning styles assessment for free at http://www.educate.com and tailor your phonogram practice to his best learning style (kinesthetic, whatever). Try writing on a whiteboard or in the sand since it's summer. But definitely go back through. I bet if you do that, it will solidify these skills and help him move forward. Sooner than you think, he'll be reading your emails and real books! :)

Edited July 12, 2009 by OhElizabeth

[Mandamom]

deleted

Edited July 12, 2009 by Mandamom

[kalanamak]

 

Will is just take time for him to become a fluent reader?

 

My son does the same thing, but he is slowing and incrementally getting better and better. Our stumbling block is that now that he is clipping along pretty quickly, he seems to "resent" hitting a word that slows him down, and would like to guess from context and a few letters (I notice he lights on the tall ones....l, t, b, d, etc) and keep going. Can't blame him.

 

Today (!) I'm going to start working with the AAS tiles in conjunction with SWR as a change of pace and a new "route into the brain". (His mind and eye are simply faster than his writing, and I don't want that to slow him down. I'm so happy his writing is neat, I decline to push for speed at this point.) I know they have initial appeal, because he is making words on the board during his play time. I'll try to remember and update you if it makes a significant difference.

 

(Oh, and we went through Reading Pathways (after Phonics Pathways) for confidence and speed-building, and kiddo did them both without a fuss.)

Edited July 12, 2009 by kalanamak
Just read a previous post.

[Bokons]

You might try AAS.

 

Sometimes my son will recognize the multi-letter phonograms and sometimes he misses them and sounds them out seperately.

 

 

Good Luck :)

 

I've heard of AAS, but I'll have to look into it more. My ds does the same thing sometimes with sounding out phonograms separately.

 

Thanks for the ideas :).

[Bokons]

Are these books he is trying to read, or books you assign to him? Remember, SWR encourages no forced reading. In other words, if he can't read it, you don't need to push him to but can let the process work out. He's only at list J4 which, despite his age, means he can decode at a late 1st grade level. That means he'll comfort read a K5 level book. We're talking stuff like Bob books, Go Dog Go. If is beginning to comfortably read books like that, then I'd leave him alone and keep going with SWR.

 

I'm having him read these books to me. Ds doesn't pick up books to read on his own. So far, we've been reading through the second Pathway reader (Days Go By), I just started the first McGuffey reader with him, and we also tried the Nature Reader 1, but that was still too difficult. He can read parts of some Dr. Seuss books. We don't have Go Dog Go, but I'll see if I can get it from the library and see how ds does with it.

 

If he is not moving toward books like that on his own, you might give him a gentle nudge. When my dd was at that stage, not quite taking off yet, I made booklets using her SWR words, putting one sentence on each page of a little folded booklet, then letting her illustrate as she read it. That way there's no pressure, but they're moving forward with their skills. If you come to a word he doesn't know, no problem. Just explain the sounds using the SWR techniques and move forward.

 

Make sure you reread your SWR manual to get more tips and ideas. There are lots of gems in there, and you don't necessarily see them all the 1st time through. Did you make flashcards for him to practice reading his spelling words? Yes, I made flashcards of the spelling words for him.

 

Have you gone back to the beginning and repeated lists? Sanseri wants you to go back and repeat lists, so everything gets hit twice. With my dd I repeated those lists 3 times!!! But when she took off reading, wow did she take off. To me it sounds like you're ready to go back to list A and start over. He'll do them faster and on a whole new level, because it's familiar. It will probably solidify some of the things he's struggling with, because he'll see the finer details in the context of things familiar. SWR is not just about rushing forward but about going back and reviewing too. Don't be afraid to do that. Those test scores on diagnostics are NOT just a reflection of how far forward you go in the lists, but of how well things are clicking in their minds. That's why Sanseri cites evidence that you can teach a whole classful of kids with lists that are too easy for them and they STILL PROGRESS. I saw it quite a bit with my own dd. Don't be afraid to go back and repeat those earlier lists!

 

I haven't gone back and repeated lists with him. When I ask him to practice the flashcards of words from earlier lists, he complains and says he knows them already, but I will start this summer from list A again. I hadn't thought of repeating lists.

 

When you go back, you can do things in new ways. If you skipped the enrichments, do them this time. You might like to get the My Wise Grammar (is that the right name? I forget) they sell that makes it easy and has phonogram practice built in. I liked dictating the Wise Guide sentences. Play phonogram bingo. Do a learning styles assessment for free at http://www.educate.com and tailor your phonogram practice to his best learning style (kinesthetic, whatever). Try writing on a whiteboard or in the sand since it's summer. But definitely go back through. I bet if you do that, it will solidify these skills and help him move forward. Sooner than you think, he'll be reading your emails and real books! :)

 

Thanks, Elizabeth!

[Ellie]

It might just take time.

 

Personally, I wouldn't muddy the waters with something in addition to SWR. It is complete all by itself, and other phonics/spelling methods do teach differently.

 

Are you following the method faithfully, or are you sort of tweaking it? Sometimes tweaking causes less-than-satisfactory results.

[Bokons]

My son does the same thing, but he is slowing and incrementally getting better and better. Our stumbling block is that now that he is clipping along pretty quickly, he seems to "resent" hitting a word that slows him down, and would like to guess from context and a few letters (I notice he lights on the tall ones....l, t, b, d, etc) and keep going. Can't blame him.

 

Today (!) I'm going to start working with the AAS tiles in conjunction with SWR as a change of pace and a new "route into the brain". (His mind and eye are simply faster than his writing, and I don't want that to slow him down. I'm so happy his writing is neat, I decline to push for speed at this point.) I know they have initial appeal, because he is making words on the board during his play time. I'll try to remember and update you if it makes a significant difference.

 

Thank you, that would be good to know.

 

(Oh, and we went through Reading Pathways (after Phonics Pathways) for confidence and speed-building, and kiddo did them both without a fuss.)

 

My ds also likes to guess the word after a few letters sometimes. He mixes up fourteen and fifteen in his math book because he just reads the first letter and the last few letters.

[Bokons]

It might just take time.

 

Personally, I wouldn't muddy the waters with something in addition to SWR. It is complete all by itself, and other phonics/spelling methods do teach differently.

 

Are you following the method faithfully, or are you sort of tweaking it? Sometimes tweaking causes less-than-satisfactory results.

 

I am tweaking a bit, but I do the finger spelling when dictating the words for the first time. We haven't really done any of the rules, so when I start from list A again, I will have to add those in.

 

I will try and persevere with SWR. I know that it is a good program :).

[PeterPan]

Colleen, I don't know how to say this, but I think you're being impatient. When you use SWR to teach them to read, you are NOT supposed to hand them 1st grader readers and make them read. Honest. He's not yet ready to read those things, which is why he's guessing. Do you have anything super-simple like the Bob books? He could probably read K5 level books. Get some stuff like that and put away those 1st grade readers. Make booklets with just his spelling words, nothing else. I was forced to read with the McGuffey readers when I was 5, and the memories of that are so bad I've never understood why anyone would use them.

 

My guess is that he's just on the cusp. Try rereading the pertinent chapters in SWR and see if you get more inspiration.

[Bokons]

Colleen, I don't know how to say this, but I think you're being impatient. When you use SWR to teach them to read, you are NOT supposed to hand them 1st grader readers and make them read. Honest. He's not yet ready to read those things, which is why he's guessing. Do you have anything super-simple like the Bob books? He could probably read K5 level books. Get some stuff like that and put away those 1st grade readers. Make booklets with just his spelling words, nothing else. I was forced to read with the McGuffey readers when I was 5, and the memories of that are so bad I've never understood why anyone would use them.

 

My guess is that he's just on the cusp. Try rereading the pertinent chapters in SWR and see if you get more inspiration.

 

You're right, Elizabeth, I am being impatient. My first two dss read earlier, so I guess I am feeling worried that ds7 is not picking it up as quickly. He would be going in to grade 3 if he was in school (kids here start K if they will turn 5 by Dec. 31st), so he is definitely not reading at grade level. I know it is something that I should try not to worry about. I have read about kids who pick up reading later and catch up to their peers.

 

Where can I get list of K5 level books?

 

Thanks :).

[yslek]

Everywhere I've lived, the K cutoff was between late August and Sept. 1st. Around here, he'd be going into 2nd. (B has a mid-September birthday; he will be 11 for most of his 5th grade year.)

 

Something you might look at for reinforcement of past lists is spellingcity.com. You can search for spelling lists or create your own. It won't help to reinforce phonograms or spelling rules, but does provide some fun games (hangmouse, crosswords, etc.) to practice spelling with.

[PeterPan]

Yeah, I would think of him as going into 2nd, not 3rd.

[FO4UR]

I am right there with you, Colleen. My ds turned 6 in January so he's just months younger. fwiw - he would be starting 1st grade in the fall here. There is a huge difference between 1st and 3rd.....not much difference between 6 1/2 and 7 1/2. I wouldn't stress about "grade level." It won't help anyone.:grouphug:

 

My ds's ability to spell is WAY better than his ability to read. I am :lurk5: this thread.

 

I was given a set of Abeka 1st grade readers, and have been having him read about 3-4 stories per week. It starts slow, with cvc words. I am listening to OhElizabeth's advice though...:bigear: At bedtime, he always asks for "one more chapter" so I make a deal that if he sounds out the chapter title, I'll read the chapter. If he stumbles on a phonogram I just say the sound for him and move on.

 

I have already planned on going back (again) to Section A. I have tweaked and tweaked SWR.....so this time, I am not going to tweak (no fingers crossed behind my back:tongue_smilie:). I am going to do as many enrichments as I can. I think my ds might have a mild case of dyslexia. I have searched these boards over for the magic reading curric, and I keep coming back to SWR. SO, ......I am right there with you!

 

One thing I am going to do that is not exactly in SWR (there I go tweaking again....doh!) is spend time with one phonogram per day and build words on the white board together.

 

I am going to build some books this time around too! Great idea Elizabeth!

[Bokons]

Everywhere I've lived, the K cutoff was between late August and Sept. 1st. Around here, he'd be going into 2nd. (B has a mid-September birthday; he will be 11 for most of his 5th grade year.)

 

Something you might look at for reinforcement of past lists is spellingcity.com. You can search for spelling lists or create your own. It won't help to reinforce phonograms or spelling rules, but does provide some fun games (hangmouse, crosswords, etc.) to practice spelling with.

 

I'm in Canada, and I know that Ontario and BC both have K cut-off dates of Dec. 31st. Alberta even had a cut-off of Feb 28th, I think! Anyways, I do think of my son as going into grade 2 rather than grade 3. He is also quite immature for his age, so being in grade 2 will give him an extra year to mature.

[Bokons]

I am right there with you, Colleen. My ds turned 6 in January so he's just months younger. fwiw - he would be starting 1st grade in the fall here. There is a huge difference between 1st and 3rd.....not much difference between 6 1/2 and 7 1/2. I wouldn't stress about "grade level." It won't help anyone.:grouphug:

 

My ds's ability to spell is WAY better than his ability to read. I am :lurk5: this thread.

 

I was given a set of Abeka 1st grade readers, and have been having him read about 3-4 stories per week. It starts slow, with cvc words. I am listening to OhElizabeth's advice though...:bigear: At bedtime, he always asks for "one more chapter" so I make a deal that if he sounds out the chapter title, I'll read the chapter. If he stumbles on a phonogram I just say the sound for him and move on.

 

I have already planned on going back (again) to Section A. I have tweaked and tweaked SWR.....so this time, I am not going to tweak (no fingers crossed behind my back:tongue_smilie:). I am going to do as many enrichments as I can. I think my ds might have a mild case of dyslexia. I have searched these boards over for the magic reading curric, and I keep coming back to SWR. SO, ......I am right there with you!

 

One thing I am going to do that is not exactly in SWR (there I go tweaking again....doh!) is spend time with one phonogram per day and build words on the white board together.

 

I am going to build some books this time around too! Great idea Elizabeth!

 

My ds can also spell better than he can read. He does pretty well on most of his spelling tests.

 

I'll have to read SWR again because I haven't looked at in about a year ( just using the Wise Guide).