Has anyone used two Algebra curriculum at the same time?

[Melissa in CA]

As I was talking to my 18 yo yesterday about his college math courses, I asked him if he felt that BJU's Algebra was a good precursor to College maths. He said, yes, and no. He felt that BJU taught the process much better than his college Algebra classes, but that he was at a disadvantage in some ways because he had to relearn the way the college textbooks/teachers taught the process (I don't know if process is the word he used...). He definitely said that BJU's way of doing things made more sense and was easier to follow, but it would have been good to learn both forms so he would know what his college teacher was doing.

 

So, now I am wondering how to proceed with my youngest. We are planning to use BJU's new Math 7 this coming year. I am wondering if perhaps I should add on a Friday Pre-Algebra course. Getting him started on his pre-Alg. Then next year, 8th, finish his pre-alg and get an early start on Alg 1 so I can perhaps fit in two different Alg curriculum. I already own BJU's Alg 1 with DVD teacher, a 45 min video each day. So, I don't know what other Alg program I could get that would teach differently and not overwhelm us with too much math. LOF? Lial? Jacobs? Saxon? TT?

 

This is just in the thinking stages right now. It's probably not even possible to do this without completely confusing him. I don't know. Perhaps I'll just stick with BJU and forget about it, or drop BJU and pick something more college friendly. What? I don't know.

 

Anyone been-there-done-that?

[HollyDay]

Interesting thread. I must tell you that I have been very disappointed with BJU math. Dd's math ability has greatly gone down the last 2 years of using BJU. We will not continue with it.

 

Okay, now for the disclaimer. Others here use and love it. It must work well for them, so they can give you a more positive view.

 

Back to the math question. There are some algebra programs that teach differently. LOF, Principals from Patterns (MMM algebra 1), MUS all come to mind. I am told TT is also a bit different, but I have not seen it to comment on the differences.

 

Jacobs gets great reviews and is highly thought of. Key to Algebra should also be helpful.

 

HTH some!

[Corraleno]

I plan to use at least 2 different Algebra programs, too, to really solidify the concepts. Since your son specifically said he wished he'd learned "the way college professors teach it," then I would suggest Chalkdust, because they actually use college textbooks and the DVDs were originally made for college.

 

You can get the "plain label" Chalkdust DVDs quite inexpensively and buy the text and solutions manual second hand. I think I paid about $70 total for all three -- and the program covers Alg I and Alg II so you can use it for 2 years. If you want to do the BJU math, I'd do that first, then follow with Chalkdust Alg I and then just continue with that through Alg II.

 

Here are the ISBNs for the "plain label" versions of Chalkdust:

 

DVDs: Houghton Mifflin Mathematics Instructional DVD Series Student Support Edition, 4th Ed., for use with Elementary Algebra / Elementary & Intermediate Algebra / Intermediate Algebra (lectures are by Dana Moseley)

ISBN 0618753966

 

Text: Larson & Hostetler, Elementary and Intermediate Algebra: A Combined Course 4th Ed.

ISBN 0618388362

 

Neptune & Fitch, Student Solutions Guide, Elementary & Intermediate Algebra 4th Ed.

ISBN 0618388389

 

Just google the ISBNs and you should find lots of choices. You can also use the DVDs with the separate Larson textbooks (Elementary Algebra and Intermediate Algebra) but I don't have the ISBNs to hand for those texts.

 

Jackie

[Melissa in CA]

Thanks Holly! I forgot about MMM's Algebra, that might be something different to try. I already own LOF Beg. Alg but I'm not sure talky-ready math is the best approach for this particular child. I may try it out on him though.

 

So what did you use before BJU math? We have had good success with it and I think it's a solid program, but I can see how it might not be the best for children who need more daily review of previous concepts. My ds is currently taking his Standardized test for this year, so I'm anxious to see how he scores in math. He's always been in the top 10% and he's been using BJU math since 4th grade. He's at that age though, where digging in to school work that he doesn't enjoy, just doesn't happen. He does only what he needs to do to pass his math tests...beyond that, I don't think he puts in a great effort in actually LEARNING anything. We'll see. I do like BJU, but I am not against trying something new should he need it. ;)

[Melissa in CA]

I plan to use at least 2 different Algebra programs, too, to really solidify the concepts. Since your son specifically said he wished he'd learned "the way college professors teach it," then I would suggest Chalkdust, because they actually use college textbooks and the DVDs were originally made for college.

 

You can get the "plain label" Chalkdust DVDs quite inexpensively and buy the text and solutions manual second hand. I think I paid about $70 total for all three -- and the program covers Alg I and Alg II so you can use it for 2 years. If you want to do the BJU math, I'd do that first, then follow with Chalkdust Alg I and then just continue with that through Alg II.

 

Here are the ISBNs for the "plain label" versions of Chalkdust:

 

DVDs: Houghton Mifflin Mathematics Instructional DVD Series Student Support Edition, 4th Ed., for use with Elementary Algebra / Elementary & Intermediate Algebra / Intermediate Algebra (lectures are by Dana Moseley)

ISBN 0618753966

 

Text: Larson & Hostetler, Elementary and Intermediate Algebra: A Combined Course 4th Ed.

ISBN 0618388362

 

Neptune & Fitch, Student Solutions Guide, Elementary & Intermediate Algebra 4th Ed.

ISBN 0618388389

 

Just google the ISBNs and you should find lots of choices. You can also use the DVDs with the separate Larson textbooks (Elementary Algebra and Intermediate Algebra) but I don't have the ISBNs to hand for those texts.

 

Jackie

 

Thanks Jackie! So the books & DVDs with the ISBN's are the actual books used with the Chalkdust program? I did think of Chalkdust, and was actually going to ask about it but forgot to add it to my original post.

[HollyDay]

We used Saxon prior to BJU.

[Storm Bay]

Yes, we combined Gelfand's Algebra with Lial's and later with Dolciani.

 

I've never done BJU math and cannot comment on it as we have other math favourites.

[momtotkbb]

This was our first year with BJU and we used BJU Alg I. DD really liked it and loved that it wasn't lots of review. I also had her complete the Keys to Alg --she liked that they were little booklets that she could easily take with her and write on.

[Corraleno]

Thanks Jackie! So the books & DVDs with the ISBN's are the actual books used with the Chalkdust program? I did think of Chalkdust, and was actually going to ask about it but forgot to add it to my original post.

 

I believe Chalkdust was originally commissioned to produce the DVDs for Houghton Mifflin's college division, then they got the bright idea of repackaging them and selling them directly to homeschoolers for 5 times what you can buy them for from Houghton Mifflin. The lectures are the same, and at the beginning of the "plain label" Houghton Mifflin DVDs, it says "produced by Chalkdust." It even says on the CD website that "DVDs may be available at no charge to colleges adopting textbooks published by Houghton Mifflin." So it certainly seems that they are the same DVDs.

 

The texts for Basic Math, Prealgebra, and Alg I & II are republished by Chalkdust with their own covers -- I suspect this is partly to disguise the fact that they are using college texts. They do not republish Trig, Precalc, or Calculus, they just sell the standard HM textbooks. Pongo (see thread linked below) has confirmed that CD's republished "Alg I" text is the same as the Houghton Mifflin Elementary Algebra text.

 

It seems that Houghton Mifflin is discontinuing selling the Algebra DVDs as 2 separate sets and is now selling an updated, combined set of 13 DVDs. However, you can still use these with the separate Elementary and Intermediate texts if you want; when you start the DVD you click on which text you are using, and it presents you with the appropriate lessons.

 

I got the text, DVDs, and solutions for combined Alg I & II for around $70, versus paying $783 to buy those 2 programs separately from Chalkdust, so I'm a happy camper. :)

 

Pongo is the one who figured all this out, here's a link to the thread with the original discussion about it:

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89513&highlight=chalkdust+%24%24%24

 

Here is a link to the combined Algebra DVDs:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0618753966/ref=olp_product_details?ie=UTF8&me=&seller=

 

Here are the ISBNs for the separate Elementary & Intermediate Alg texts, if you prefer to do it that way:

 

Elementary Alg text: ISBN 9780618753536

Elementary Solutions: ISBN 9780618388196

Intermediate Alg text: ISBN 9780618218783

Intermediate Solutions ISBN 978-0618218806

 

Jackie

[lllll]

We've used more than one program for math for quite a while now. I used R&S for oral drill. 16dd is about to finish up with R&S 8 now. Meanwhile, she's also doing 2 different algebra books. One is more theory. Another is more problems. They complement each other well and I can see where it helps develop a certain flexibility in her thinking. She sees that there's more than one way to view a subject, depending on the author's take. But she also is able to see that the math itself is still the same. That never changes.

 

It takes a little longer to do it this way, but the results are worth it to me. I guess you just have to decide if it's that important to you.

 

A few things that speed up the process:

 

white boards - ditched the pencil and paper and she does all her work with me sitting at the table near her (quietly). I check it instantly while she still remembers her thought processes.

 

Make one the basic program and use the others as 'enrichment'. One program is for learning inside and out - she takes notes, makes flash cards, etc. The other is for 'fun'. She can go as fast or as slow as she wants. The fun one we don't worry about too much. The basic one I don't hesitate to repeat sections if I'm not sure she got it all.

 

Work as a group for part of the math time. I've found it really helps for them to discuss their math. I mean, how many people do you know who really talk about the math they're learning? It makes it more fun, they help each other develop their mathematical thinking, etc. You will probably have to make the time for them to do this or they never will. (Didn't see your dc in sig., so just assuming you have others at home?)

 

 

 

Finally, the actual program is important, to be sure, but IMO it's just as important for them to see a wide variety of ways in which the same topic is covered. Try not to get stuck on the actual program to the exclusion of the other. I know that's hard to do on a board like this where we're all discussing curr. constantly; but it can be done. :)

 

HTH

Kathy

 

PS - You might also want to post this on the High School board, if you didn't already.

[Melissa in CA]

I believe Chalkdust was originally commissioned to produce the DVDs for Houghton Mifflin's college division, then they got the bright idea of repackaging them and selling them directly to homeschoolers for 5 times what you can buy them for from Houghton Mifflin. The lectures are the same, and at the beginning of the "plain label" Houghton Mifflin DVDs, it says "produced by Chalkdust." It even says on the CD website that "DVDs may be available at no charge to colleges adopting textbooks published by Houghton Mifflin." So it certainly seems that they are the same DVDs.

 

The texts for Basic Math, Prealgebra, and Alg I & II are republished by Chalkdust with their own covers -- I suspect this is partly to disguise the fact that they are using college texts. They do not republish Trig, Precalc, or Calculus, they just sell the standard HM textbooks. Pongo (see thread linked below) has confirmed that CD's republished "Alg I" text is the same as the Houghton Mifflin Elementary Algebra text.

 

It seems that Houghton Mifflin is discontinuing selling the Algebra DVDs as 2 separate sets and is now selling an updated, combined set of 13 DVDs. However, you can still use these with the separate Elementary and Intermediate texts if you want; when you start the DVD you click on which text you are using, and it presents you with the appropriate lessons.

 

I got the text, DVDs, and solutions for combined Alg I & II for around $70, versus paying $783 to buy those 2 programs separately from Chalkdust, so I'm a happy camper. :)

 

Pongo is the one who figured all this out, here's a link to the thread with the original discussion about it:

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89513&highlight=chalkdust+%24%24%24

 

Here is a link to the combined Algebra DVDs:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0618753966/ref=olp_product_details?ie=UTF8&me=&seller=

 

Here are the ISBNs for the separate Elementary & Intermediate Alg texts, if you prefer to do it that way:

 

Elementary Alg text: ISBN 9780618753536

Elementary Solutions: ISBN 9780618388196

Intermediate Alg text: ISBN 9780618218783

Intermediate Solutions ISBN 978-0618218806

 

Jackie

 

Thanks again Jackie. I found everything (DVDs (new), combined Alg 1-Alg 2 text, and solutions manual) for $42 including shipping. I went ahead and bought it. Who knows, maybe I'll like it better than BJU and use it instead. :confused: Or, figure out a way to combine them.

 

Now I am wondering....

If you use the 2 year combined text, do you stop in the middle and do Geometry, or do you complete Alg 1 & 2 and then do Geometry?

 

ETA: Is there a Teacher's Manual?

[Sunshine State Sue]

We used MUS Algebra and LoF Algebra this year.

 

It looks like you've made a decision for Chalkdust. It gets good reviews.

[HollyDay]

Melissa!! Where did you find it??

[Melissa in CA]

Melissa!! Where did you find it??

 

It was all on Amazon! I purchased from the lowest prices in the "used/new" catagory and even with shipping it only came to $42. I didn't think I should pass that up, KWIM? :blink:

 

I just did a search with the ISBN's Jackie gave me... :001_smile:

[Pamela H in Texas]

Well, we do two of each upper math. *I* did two when I was a kid due to re-entering public school. Then my daughter ran through a second upper math sequence due to circumstances with how we did her education as she was so young when she started the high school sequence originally. I felt that another run-through would be a good thing before moving on. Well, and then we happened to get LOF so she ran through those "for fun." And my son is doing his second currently. It's a pattern we're very happy with.

 

BTW, and we're math people. I really think a second go-around made a huge difference for each of us. For non-mathy kids, I can only imagine the positives of doing so would be compounded.

[AngieW in Texas]

I've never even looked at BJU, so I can't help you there.

 

However, my middle dd did do two complete programs for Algebra. She did Jacobs Elementary Algebra and Kinetic Books Algebra I. She dropped Jacobs a little past halfway through because she decided that she liked KB a lot better. When she was doing both programs, she would do all of ch 1 in KB and then all of ch 1 in Jacobs. Then she did ch 2 of KB and then ch 2 of Jacobs, etc. I didn't try to align topics. She just worked through both books in order.

[Corraleno]

Now I am wondering....

If you use the 2 year combined text, do you stop in the middle and do Geometry, or do you complete Alg 1 & 2 and then do Geometry?

 

ETA: Is there a Teacher's Manual?

 

I'm planning to do algebra I & II together, then geometry, then trig/precalc, and calc. But I'm also planning to have my son go through TT Algebra I before we do Chalkdust, as a gentle introduction since he'll be doing this in 7th grade. So I'm planning to have him do TT Alg I and start CD Alg I in 7th, then finish CD Alg II and maybe run through LoF Intermediate ALgebra in 8th. Then we'd do Geometry in 9th and go from there.

 

I think there are TMs, but my impression is that they really aren't necessary. There are a LOT of practice problems, so assigning just the "odds" is not a problem. For example, in Chapter 4, there are 6 sections, each of which has 80-90 practice problems, plus a Chapter Review with 144 problems and a Chapter Test with 23 problems. The Solutions Guide has solutions for all the odd practice problems as well as ALL the problems (odd & even) in the review sections, chapter tests, cumulative tests, etc. So for me the only reason to buy the TM would be if I felt that 45-50 practice problems per lesson were not enough! :tongue_smilie:

 

Jackie