Diagnosing Asperger's

[blazingtrin]

I just wanted to get some feedback on the diagnoses process for Asperger's. I have known for some time that my Joshua has problems. Ever since he was 2 I suspected ADHD, and sure enough when he was six he was properly diagnosed with that. But the ADHD doesn't cover all his quirks, and recently his Psychiatrist has brought up the subject of Asperger's. He seems to fit a lot of the characteristics, but has no sensory issues or rituals. He obsesses over things, has a lot of social issues, kind of lives in his own world. For a while he wouldn't want to be touched, but seems to have grown out of that. What annoys me the most is that he acts like a little professor. He spouts off random facts to anyone who will listen and will get into arguments with adults when they don't agree with his facts.

 

A serious aspect to his issues, whether it's asperger's or not, is that he has a serious lack of judgement. For instance, if he wants something he will take it regardless of his training about stealing. It's like I am raising a three year old who will never grow up.

 

Well, I didn't mean for this to turn into a rant. I'm mostly curious about the diagnoses process because we have an appointment in October to have him assessed and diagnosed. I also would like to know if any of you have experienced the lack of judgment on the part of their Asperger's children.

 

Thanks for your help.

 

Kari

[Dobela]

I have an adult brother with Aspergers/Autism and lack of judgement remains one of his biggest issues. He gets hung up on what he perceives the truth to be an that leads to all kinds of other problems. It has even landed him in serious legal problems lately because he refused to listen to a true authority. Sadly we still refer to him as 37 going on 3. We didn't fully realize the extent of his problems until I had a child and my child began passing him up socially and emotionally.

 

My brother doesn't have any noticeable sensory issues but I believe they are there and underlying some of his behavior - including his temper. Some of his angry outbursts, we have noticed, are when he is tired, overwhelmed, recently been in a noisy situation, been in a place with lots of flashing lights, and so on. And while he doesn't have any rituals per say, things must be completed in a certan order (his order) or he will either become very angry or completely disengage. It has meant the loss of more than one job.

[Jill- OK]

This may vary from dr to dr, but the psychaitrist we saw used a few different written tests, as well as simply talking to me and dd and evaluating.

 

One written test was for my husband and I to fill out (separately), and one was for dd. (She's old enough to read and write, I'm sure it would be administered to a child who is younger, or not yet literate).

 

The results of the written tests give a scale, for autism/Asperger's diagnosis. (Either high, moderate, or low possibility).

[Jill- OK]

I haven't noticed that, per se, but I think you'll find a lot of overlap between Asperger's and other "issues". (ADHD, OCD, etc.)

 

Kids diagnosed with Asperger's may have certain commonalities, but they're still individuals, and sometimes don't easily fit the AS 'mold'. My daughter doesn't really resemble other kids I've known with Asperger's, although I'm sure there are other kids like her. The lack of judgement may be an indivudal thing, or a symptom. ::Shrug:: (I'm sure that was helpful, LOL!)

[motherdear]

My son was diagnosed with the "smattering" of Aspergers 3 years ago, at age 9. For many years I kind of thought something was wrong, but being one of those who doesn't believe in labels, I put it off. It was at a speech therapy evaluation (he has a stuttering problem), that a therapist brought to my attention the possibility that he may have an autism-related disorder. I took him to his pediatrician with a list of ANY even questionable behaviors he displayed-to name a few: speaks loudly, must always be in charge, doesn’t seems to notice his pants are halfway down his rear-end, inability to take polite hints or facial expressions, starts talking about unrelated topics during discussions, has “young†interests for his age. The list even included things that could very well have been personality quirps, but the list included every possible behavior hubby and I (and input from friends) could think of. My pediatrician sat with me (he’s wonderful) as I read my list of concerns (with teary eyes). He gave me a referral to a Boston neurologist whom gave us the “official†diagnosis. It was very hard to hear that label, but it does not change that sweet loveable, helpful child we were blessed with; and we have become aware of effective ways to help our son.

Anyways, to answer your concern, be sure you get a doctor who will give you every bit of TIME you need and make your list COMPLETE, getting input from others who have contact with your son, even if you’re not quite sure if the behavior is Asperger related. A good neurologist knows what to ask to make his determinations. Also, be sure to get support group names, organizations which may be of help to you, titles of resource materials, websites—whatever he can offer! I hope this helps! God bless!

MJ

BTW- Did you know Bill Gates has Aspergers?

[Year Round Mom]

Great question. We have an appt with a child psychologist in a few weeks to find out if ds5 has Asperger's. Interestingly, we are going without him the first appt. That's a good idea to make a list of any and all behaviors we find in our son to bring to the initial appt. I'm definitely going to do that!

[MarthaM]

I read a book recently:

The ADHD-Autism Connection: A Step Toward More Accurate Diagnoses and Effective Treatments

 

 

that talked about the similarities in not only behavior but the possibly biological connection of these disorders. Asperger is on the Autism spectrum and this book and many psychologists are now asserting the ADHD is also on this spectrum.

Martha Mason

[KinderSafari]

Read, read, read about it.

 

The difficulty with any autism-related struggle (ADD, ADHD, Asperger's) etc. - is that it never seems black and white. Every child/adult is different in how it effects them.

 

The problems really need to be addressed when it starts effecting other people in the world.

 

I am convinced my son has Asperger's. He tested "borderline". I'm certain he didn't get the full diagnosis because he has been homeschooled his whole life and lacks the severe problem issues kids usually run into in schools. He has been involved in sports and activities - horrible at sports (no coordination - has Sensory problems) and dropped out after awhile. And even in the field trips we do with our homeschoolers I still need to closely supervise him (almost 14 years of old) and his 4 year old brother has better common sense than he does.

 

It's like others above explained. We can teach him the basic rules of behavior and he can parrot back every right answer about how to behave. But when he is IN a situation, those practice situations and solutions fall out of his head and he just REACTS. Gets angry quickly over things we can't usually predict (but he can explain later), and can't just let go of things, even when an authority figure steps in to tell him to drop something. He'll go on and on about the injustice of something. He speaks loudly. Has little awareness of those around him. Frequently has his socks over his pants leg, or one pant leg up to his knee without noticing it, shoes untied, etc. Lives in his own world.

 

Academically - math and science come easy for him and I've found him reading math books "for fun". However, his brain is like a puzzle and doesn't put things together in sequential order. He'll be able to read x+7yx-4zt times 49 over 2 (or whatever) like "The cat on the mat" and come up with the answer just like that. But then he might struggle over 10 divided by 2. It's too easy and irrelevant to him. I've described it as putting a puzzle together one piece at a time, and none of the pieces fit together until the very end. Maybe put down a cloud piece first, then a piece with grass on it, then a piece of the ocean...I'm just hoping that all the pieces will connect when they're all placed down.

 

My biggest concerns are that he can't "problem solve", becomes angry over petty things, and won't let things go. These things are necessary to be able to keep a job, and I don't know how else to train him besides reading little social stories (helpful) and continuing to involve him in small supervised group activities.

 

My hope is to help him find a job he can do from home and not have to interact much with people....

[PrincessAriel]

Your description of your son as a little professor made me think of this article about Nonverbal Learning Disorder, which has some traits in common with aspergers.

 

http://www.jewishpress.com/pageroute.do/38968

[Misty]

Jill,

What part of Oklahoma are you in? We're about 20 minutes SW of OKC.

 

To the original poster....

 

Our psychologist spent two days testing each of my daughters before diagnosing them. She gave them IQ tests, abbreviated achievment tests, ADHD screenings, and a few other things I'm probably not thinking of. My husband and I had to fill out questionaires regarding behavior and other things and I had to fill out a teacher questionaire since we homeschool. Each day took 2-4 hours, depending on the child.

 

As for lack of judgment... Yes, I would say two of my daughters have this issue (I have three with Asperger's), but not in an extreme way. I think it would be worse if they didn't have my constant guidance. Public school would definitely be interesting! Thank God for homeschooling! I do worry about what decisions they will make in early adulthood though.... *sigh*

 

Good luck!!

[8filltheheart]

I just wanted to get some feedback on the diagnoses process for Asperger's. I have known for some time that my Joshua has problems. Ever since he was 2 I suspected ADHD, and sure enough when he was six he was properly diagnosed with that. But the ADHD doesn't cover all his quirks, and recently his Psychiatrist has brought up the subject of Asperger's. He seems to fit a lot of the characteristics, but has no sensory issues or rituals. He obsesses over things, has a lot of social issues, kind of lives in his own world. For a while he wouldn't want to be touched, but seems to have grown out of that. What annoys me the most is that he acts like a little professor. He spouts off random facts to anyone who will listen and will get into arguments with adults when they don't agree with his facts.

 

A serious aspect to his issues, whether it's asperger's or not, is that he has a serious lack of judgement. For instance, if he wants something he will take it regardless of his training about stealing. It's like I am raising a three year old who will never grow up.

 

Well, I didn't mean for this to turn into a rant. I'm mostly curious about the diagnoses process because we have an appointment in October to have him assessed and diagnosed. I also would like to know if any of you have experienced the lack of judgment on the part of their Asperger's children.

 

Thanks for your help.

 

Kari

 

Hi Kari,

 

Getting an accurate diagnosis for any psychological problem is an extremely difficult process. Our ds is 17 and when he was little the immediate label was ADHD (affirmative without a doubt!). However, his issues were definitely more complicated. We, regretfully, didn't pursue more diagnostics until he was 12 when he started having severe OCD problems b/c of a change in routine (we moved and I was injured and in a wheel chair for a few months.)

 

From 12-16 we went through multiple diagnoses. His pediatrician, who has an autistic dd, was convinced ds was an Aspie. However, his therapist and behavioral neurologist weren't. He was labeled everything from OCD, ODD, bipolar, to anxiety etc. However, with the exception of the OCD and anxiety, very little of it made sense. He has zero ability to gauge social situations (for instance thinking attention from other kids making fun of him is actually their liking him and his being popular), cannot see "big picture" objectives but needs specific directions, etc.

 

Ironically, after yrs of arguing with psychologists and psychiatrists that we thought he has Aspergers, the one therapist that we never even discussed Aspergers referred us to an Aspie specialist!

 

Our ds was having extremely violent tendencies when we wouldn't let him do what he wanted (all associated with his OCD behaviors which included things like drawing the same picture over and over for 20 hrs while refusing to stop to eat, etc.) When we would interfere and try to get him to stop and eat or go to bed, he would physically temper tantrum like a 2 yo in a 16 yo body. We put him in CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy) after we had to have him admitted to the psychiatric unit after he attacked me b/c I wouldn't let him on the computer.

 

It was the CBT therapist who told us that CBT was not helping ds at all and that he believed that ds had been mislabeled. (It was a rather funny situation b/c he was trying to be very gentle b/c he didn't want to upset me by telling me he thought ds was a high functioning autistic and I burst out laughing b/c here was the one dr we hadn't even tried to persuade telling us he believed ds was autistic!!)

 

The psy we were referred to did the following:

 

Integrated Visual and Audiotory Continuous Performance Test (IVA)

Quantitative electroencephalogram (QEEG)

Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children

Woodcock-Johnson III Tests of Achievement

Personality Inventory for Children

Gilliam Asperger's Disorder Scale (GADS)

MMPIA (I don't remember what this is)

Conner's Parent's Rating Scale (CPRS)

Conner's Teacher's Rating Scale (CTRS)

 

He was officially diagnosed as definitely Aspergers after the testing. But, getting to this point was not easy. Having the label really hasn't made it any easier either! :tongue_smilie:

 

One book that the CBT therapist recommended that is a good book is Parenting Your Asperger Child by Sohn and Grayson.

 

The first books I ever read (many, many yrs ago) that confirmed it for me were the ADHD Autism Connection and Temple Grandin's Thinking in Pictures.

 

Good luck in getting an appropriate diagnosis.

Edited June 12, 2009 by 8FillTheHeart

[Jill- OK]

Jill,

What part of Oklahoma are you in? We're about 20 minutes SW of OKC.

 

 

We're about that close to OKC, too. :001_smile:

[Misty]

Jill,

I just realized I spoke to you through PM last year as my youngest daughter was being diagnosed. I just went through my inbox and found some old messages from you that were very helpful to me at the time!

 

We should try to get together sometime this summer!

[elise1mds]

Read, read, read about it.

 

:iagree:

 

 

My son's only 6 and hasn't been officially diagnosed with Asperger's, but I believe he will be as he ages. Right now he's just PDD-NOS, though he also has ADHD and anxiety. When we had him evaluated, the pediatrician had a hard time diagnosing him because he had all those issues, and she was sort of hoping that the medication we eventually began for the ADHD would help him out in the other areas as well. Turns out that the meds are great for helping him focus but don't alleviate any of the other symptoms... so I'm looking more and more into Asperger's and reading up on it and trying to figure out things to do to help him in that regard.

 

I am loving the book I'm reading right now called "The Complete Guide to Asperger's Syndrome" by Tony Attwood (http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Guide-Aspergers-Syndrome/dp/1843106698/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1245094730&sr=8-1). It has a lot of information in it, including current-at-publishing-time information about how Asperger's is commonly diagnosed and what tests are available for that. Since your son is older, you'll probably also appreciate that he also talks a lot about Asperger's in teens and adults, and maybe you'll be able to see your son in there. The very last few paragraphs in the book discuss an imaginary Asperger's kid (who he introduces in the first paragraphs) who has grown up, and it's soo reassuring.

 

Oh, and if it helps... my son's lack of judgment drives me BATTY. This morning, I found bar soap stuffed down the bathroom sink drain (so much that it wouldn't drain until I cleaned it out) and 10 shirts stuffed in the top of his closet that he was supposed to have put away in his drawer. He thinks it's perfectly fine to sneak out of his bedroom at night and go into MY room, which is also forbidden to the kids unless permission is given, and take out books. I love that he wants to read, but for heaven's sake, ASK!

 

Good luck :)

[brownie]

Maybe you ought to find an autism support group in your area or maybe your ped and ask about diagnosis procedures in your state. In our area, we saw a dev pediatrician. I only paid a co-pay. We got the diagnosis and then the state started covering all the therapy. In fact at that point they started covering all my cop-pays for everything which made my husband and I uncomfortable. I did pay for a private full scale IQ but only bc I didn't trust the school to do it right. I could have forced them to and in fact we had initiated the process but I wasn't impressed so we found someone else. My point is, it varies by state so you need to get some info and it ca be very confusing/overwhelming.

 

As far as ADHD vs Asp, the big difference is that ADHD knows what to do socially but is too impetuous to do it. They do something inappropriate before they can think it through. Asp just doesn't know what to do, doesn't understand the feelings of others. Also, Asp is supposed to have an obsession. Many many Asp have ADHD though.

 

Brownie