Ibbygirl Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 I've been hearing so much on here about CLE and R&S for math that I have been doing some browsing on their websites and looking at sample pages. My daughter is going into 7th grade and has been using Singapore exclusively for Math since the 5th grade (she actually started with 4A&B, but we did it in 5th grade due to a learning gap). Before that she did Saxon. After looking at the sample pages for the CLE and R&S for 6th and 7th grade I'm wondering why Singapore seems to teach entirely different skills for these same grades?? It's making me nervous as to how she will do on her evaluation. She always seems to score lower in math than all her other subjects on her end of the year tests and I'm wondering if maybe using Singapore may be why? Would it be a good idea to mix it up with another curriculum? Or would that just be too much or worse, mess her up all together? I liked the CLE that I saw online, but the pre-test for the 7th grade covers topics from their 6th grade course, that my daughter hasn't learned yet in Singapore. Sheesh, I feel like I"m just rambling here and not making any sense. Grrr. I should have drunk a cup of coffee before posting. I guess what I'm wanting to know is, 1) would it be a good thing to do both CLE and Singapore for 7th grade or would that be too much math/too many concepts? 2)Is it better to just focus on one curriculum and don't worry about how she scores on the evaluations? Has anyone else here mixed Singapore and CLE? Thanks to all who reply. I'm sorry for writing the question so schizo. Hopefully I made some sense. I guess sleep is always a good idea before posting. :blushing: ;) :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 After looking at the sample pages for the CLE and R&S for 6th and 7th grade I'm wondering why Singapore seems to teach entirely different skills for these same grades?? How important are the assessments? If you are really worried about getting maths in the US order, then you might like to add in another programme, but Singapore will cover most of the concepts in time. Best wishes Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibbygirl Posted May 26, 2009 Author Share Posted May 26, 2009 How important are the assessments? If you are really worried about getting maths in the US order, then you might like to add in another programme, but Singapore will cover most of the concepts in time. Best wishes Laura :iagree: with you and I thank you for your reply, but my concern is how it makes my daughter feel when she is taking a test and she doesn't know the answers. She gets a good deal of test anxiety beforehand and it has an effect on her self esteem when she doesn't understand questions or know the answers. She thinks she is stupid if she doesn't do well no matter how many times I tell her that is not so. I also worry that if she does poorly on the evaluations in math year after year, that she will think that homeschooling "doesn't work". Am I just being crazy and thinking way too much?? I really liked the look of the CLE from the sample pages and I'm wondering if it would be good to use like a supplement. Can someone who has used CLE math tell me how intensive it is? Does it require a great deal of time? Are there many problems and drills (like Saxon)? I am planning to add math drills to keep the facts fresh over summer and I was planning on continuing them next year when school starts up again. Would CLE fit for this? Are these pages directly out of the student text or is there more to the program than this?? http://www.clp.org/documents/2719/original/Math_701.pdf I apologize for asking so many questions, I just want to the best thing for my daughter and it is so hard to know sometimes if I am doing something right or wrong for her. I really appreciate any help or advice that I can get here. Thank you all so much for being such a knowledgable and supportive group. :grouphug: Blessings, Jennifer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brindee Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 :lurk5: I am all ears on this one :bigear: My dd will be in 7th grade as well. She's doing LoF Beginning Algebra, and I got CLE 8 to supplement with. If it works okay, we'll take however long it needs to take to get through these two books. I'm fine if it takes 2 years! I'm fine if it takes 1 year. I just want her to "get it!" However, I wonder if I should have just gotten the CLE 7 and do the LoF and CLE 8 later ??? I'd like to hear from those who have used these grades and see what they think! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3byzaz Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 I am a huge CLE Math fan and have only used Singapore's early books. I think that CLE is so well done and so solid without being difficult. I think that it reviews well so they retain, but not ad nauseum. You could do both for the different approaches. I have only used CLE 100, 300 and now 400. I have the 500 and have looked over the S&S for 700. I think that you should have her take the placement test. You don't have to do a WHOLE 'level' either. You can order individual lighunit's. You could start her in the middle of 6th and let her 'catch up' if you are concerned about grade level. CLE teaches things at different times just like every other curriculum, so people tend to think it is 'ahead'. I think it is more of just different and not to be confused with difficult at all. Brindee...you helped me a lot with some math decisions--thanks!! I think that just based on reading so much about CLE in general, it's probably best to go lower rather than higher...at least a little bit. Maybe pick up some 700 level also so that she is frustrated going to the 8th in 7th grade...it might be a little much? But, I'm not sure on that...check out the S&S if you haven't already on the yahoo group! HTH! Maureen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibbygirl Posted May 26, 2009 Author Share Posted May 26, 2009 Thank you for your replies. Maureen, I'm sorry I'm being thick, but what does S&S mean? I checked the abbreviation sticky, but I didn't see it. Do you know where I can get the placement test for 7th grade? Is it online? I know every child is different, but can you tell me on average, how long it takes your children to work through one lesson in CLE? Thank you so much for your time and your reply. :) Blessings, Jennifer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibbygirl Posted May 26, 2009 Author Share Posted May 26, 2009 :lurk5: I am all ears on this one :bigear: My dd will be in 7th grade as well. She's doing LoF Beginning Algebra, and I got CLE 8 to supplement with. If it works okay, we'll take however long it needs to take to get through these two books. I'm fine if it takes 2 years! I'm fine if it takes 1 year. I just want her to "get it!" However, I wonder if I should have just gotten the CLE 7 and do the LoF and CLE 8 later ??? I'd like to hear from those who have used these grades and see what they think! Thank you for your reply, Brindee. :) Did your dd take a placement test for CLE? Is that why you are starting her in the 8th grade curriculum? I'm doing LOF also. But we do that mostly for fun. lol I tell her she has to finish her school before she can do LOF so to her, it's just a fun book. :) hehe She's doing LOF Fractions and is halfway through it already. I bought it a few weeks ago. I also got the Decimals book to work with next school year. She has a tendency to forget facts and I can see the need for adding daily drills which we haven't been doing, so I was wondering if CLE might fit the bill for this? Maybe I can get away with sneaking in a second math curriculum by telling her, "this is your math drills. Singapore is your math curriculum." hehe ;) :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matryoshka Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 I've been using Singapore all along, and to supplement have been using Math Detective which introduces some of the "missing" stuff in the Singapore sequence, and Math Mosaics, which include both drill and grid coordinates in each sheet. I also had them do Venn Perplexors, because I know US math likes Venn diagrams. These have all been relatively painless to add. But my kids just took the Stanford tests for the first time this year - scores aren't back till the end of June - guess I'll just have to wait to see if anything lined up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibbygirl Posted May 26, 2009 Author Share Posted May 26, 2009 I've been using Singapore all along, and to supplement have been using Math Detective which introduces some of the "missing" stuff in the Singapore sequence, and Math Mosaics, which include both drill and grid coordinates in each sheet. I also had them do Venn Perplexors, because I know US math likes Venn diagrams. These have all been relatively painless to add. But my kids just took the Stanford tests for the first time this year - scores aren't back till the end of June - guess I'll just have to wait to see if anything lined up! Thank you for the recommendations. I'll google them and check them out. Please let me know how your kids did when you get your scores back. :) Thanks so much for your reply. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lisasaysto Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 We have been using Singapore for three years now, and I've never heard anyone say things are missing except drill. Can someone tell me where I can learn more about this, because now I'm starting to question a program I thought was working really well for my son! Yikes! We aren't required to test in Mississippi, so that is not a factor for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibbygirl Posted May 26, 2009 Author Share Posted May 26, 2009 We have been using Singapore for three years now, and I've never heard anyone say things are missing except drill. Can someone tell me where I can learn more about this, because now I'm starting to question a program I thought was working really well for my son! Yikes! We aren't required to test in Mississippi, so that is not a factor for us. Ay, I don't want to freak you out. I love Singapore and will continue to use it, I just noticed that compared to some American math programs they teach concepts in a much different order. I noticed that the R&S and the CLE were pretty close and I reckon that Saxon is also, but I just noticed from the sample sheets that they got much more into some topics than Singapore has for the same grades, but the reverse is also true I think, I think there are probably some things that Singapore has already covered that have yet to be covered in the American programs in the same depth. I was just looking for something to supplement my daughter's Singapore with so that she will do well on her evaluation. It really affects her (and my husband) if she scores poorly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
profmom Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 We have been using Singapore for three years now, and I've never heard anyone say things are missing except drill. Can someone tell me where I can learn more about this, because now I'm starting to question a program I thought was working really well for my son! Yikes! We aren't required to test in Mississippi, so that is not a factor for us. My current 6th grader has always used SM, but we usually add a test prep book for math to make sure she has covered everything that is likely to be tested. I love the mathematical thinking in SM, and I think the bar method for word problems is ingenious! However, here are some things that I've noticed that SM doesn't cover in in elementary: negative numbers probability coordinating graphs (x,y) Venn diagrams some terminology (line of symmetry, some shapes--not all, other little things) Roman numerals & tally marks These are just off the top of my head, but I think this list covers a lot of them. Using a test prep book has helped some in the past. None of these things are super complicated, but I admit that I've gotten tired of trying to expose my kids to these things before the Stanford. Maybe the SM Standards edition would include more of these concepts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibbygirl Posted May 26, 2009 Author Share Posted May 26, 2009 My current 6th grader has always used SM, but we usually add a test prep book for math to make sure she has covered everything that is likely to be tested. I love the mathematical thinking in SM, and I think the bar method for word problems is ingenious! However, here are some things that I've noticed that SM doesn't cover in in elementary: negative numbers probability coordinating graphs (x,y) Venn diagrams some terminology (line of symmetry, some shapes--not all, other little things) Roman numerals & tally marks These are just off the top of my head, but I think this list covers a lot of them. Using a test prep book has helped some in the past. None of these things are super complicated, but I admit that I've gotten tired of trying to expose my kids to these things before the Stanford. Maybe the SM Standards edition would include more of these concepts. Was the test prep book enough for your dc to make up the slack? Which one did you use may I ask? Thank you so much for your reply. :) Jennifer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matryoshka Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 We have been using Singapore for three years now, and I've never heard anyone say things are missing except drill. Can someone tell me where I can learn more about this, because now I'm starting to question a program I thought was working really well for my son! Yikes! It's really no big deal (especially if you don't have to worry about the "standard" S&S on standardized tests, which I don't either - we took the tests just to familiarize them with the format). I was just about to make a list, but I looked back and profmom beat me to it - I think those are exactly the things. None of them are rocket science and have been very easy to cover with the books I mentioned earlier. Math Mosaics are really great for both drill and grid coordinates, and we just do a page a week. Math Detective also just a lesson a week, and I don't even have to teach it, they just do it themselves. Singapore Standards Edition, I am pretty sure, does put all this US Sequence stuff in, so that's another way to go if you're worried. At this point we're just about done with Primary Math, so I'm just staying the course. :001_smile: The mathematical thinking in Singapore is just great. My dd is currently attending school in Germany, and was having a bit of trouble with a word problem, because it was in German. My cousin explained it to her and went through this long formula to get the answer. Once my dd had figured out what they were looking for, she figured it out in less than half the time it took my cousin to write it out with the formula. I'm going to be really curious how Singapore's S&S lines up with the 5th grade math in Germany! She'll be back in a few weeks, I'll let you know. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen500 Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 Thank you for your replies. Maureen, I'm sorry I'm being thick, but what does S&S mean? I checked the abbreviation sticky, but I didn't see it. /QUOTE] S&S= Scope and Sequence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibbygirl Posted May 26, 2009 Author Share Posted May 26, 2009 The mathematical thinking in Singapore is just great. I agree. I LOVE Singapore for this very reason. It teaches you how to think mathematically. I am learning so much from going through it with my daughter. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibbygirl Posted May 26, 2009 Author Share Posted May 26, 2009 Thank you for your replies. Maureen, I'm sorry I'm being thick, but what does S&S mean? I checked the abbreviation sticky, but I didn't see it. /QUOTE] S&S= Scope and Sequence Thanks for the translation. :) hehe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibbygirl Posted May 26, 2009 Author Share Posted May 26, 2009 I've been using Singapore all along, and to supplement have been using Math Detective which introduces some of the "missing" stuff in the Singapore sequence, and Math Mosaics, which include both drill and grid coordinates in each sheet. I also had them do Venn Perplexors, because I know US math likes Venn diagrams. These have all been relatively painless to add. But my kids just took the Stanford tests for the first time this year - scores aren't back till the end of June - guess I'll just have to wait to see if anything lined up! I just wanted to make sure if these are the products you are referring to? Can you tell me if they are? Thank you so much for your time and help. :) http://www.amazon.com/Riverdeep-SW50031D-Carmen-Sandiego-Detective/dp/B000AQD6GE http://www.shopping.com/xPO-Mindware-Math-Mosaics-Subtraction-Secrets-Ages-6-to-10 http://www.amazon.com/Mindware-Venn-Perplexors-Mindwares-Problems/dp/1892069466 Blessings, Jennifer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3byzaz Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 what does S&S mean? Sorry--scope and sequence...I am so lazy when I type. Do you know where I can get the placement test for 7th grade? Yes, I think I read that you can download them now from the Christian Light site. I know every child is different, but can you tell me on average, how long it takes your children to work through one lesson in CLE? My son. who has worked through the 300 level and almost all of the 400 level takes about 30-40 min. to do a lesson. Then, there is the correction process which takes time too. He is really focused on it, though...and doesn't dawdle or get distracted like with other subjects and other math programs. Could be maturity, though. Good luck with your decision...remember to try CLE, you could just get one LU for like $3.10 plus shipping! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matryoshka Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 I just wanted to make sure if these are the products you are referring to? Can you tell me if they are? Thank you so much for your time and help. :) http://www.shopping.com/xPO-Mindware-Math-Mosaics-Subtraction-Secrets-Ages-6-to-10 http://www.amazon.com/Mindware-Venn-Perplexors-Mindwares-Problems/dp/1892069466 The Mindware ones are right - there are Math Mosaics for Addition, Subtraction, single and double-digit Multiplication, Division, Fractions and Decimals. You solve the problems, then graph your answers on a grid (grid coordinates!) to make a picture or solve a maze. There are 3 different levels of Venn Perplexors. You can also get them from Rainbow here: Math Mosaics Venn Perplexors The Math Detective Series is not the one you linked, but the one from Critical Thinking Press, for one-stop-shopping, also available at Rainbow: Math Detective Another fun place to get those topics like probability, variables, grids, etc. is Zacarro's Challenge Math. I have it but we've only gotten to the first couple of chapters. I'm hoping to do it alongside 6a/b next year. These are great supplements that hit those few "missing" topics in a fun way without having to slog through a whole second curriculum which is also going to duplicate the bulk of Singapore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibbygirl Posted May 26, 2009 Author Share Posted May 26, 2009 what does S&S mean? Sorry--scope and sequence...I am so lazy when I type. Do you know where I can get the placement test for 7th grade? Yes, I think I read that you can download them now from the Christian Light site. I know every child is different, but can you tell me on average, how long it takes your children to work through one lesson in CLE? My son. who has worked through the 300 level and almost all of the 400 level takes about 30-40 min. to do a lesson. Then, there is the correction process which takes time too. He is really focused on it, though...and doesn't dawdle or get distracted like with other subjects and other math programs. Could be maturity, though. Good luck with your decision...remember to try CLE, you could just get one LU for like $3.10 plus shipping! Thank you kindly for your replies. Is there a way to find out what each book covers to be able pick a book that has the skills she needs to work on? I'm looking at the site but I can't find an index for grade 7's book. Thank you. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lisasaysto Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 Thanks for the reassurance, y'all. I'm new here, and I think I'm in information overload. Taking a deep breath now. :blush: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibbygirl Posted May 26, 2009 Author Share Posted May 26, 2009 The Mindware ones are right - there are Math Mosaics for Addition, Subtraction, single and double-digit Multiplication, Division, Fractions and Decimals. You solve the problems, then graph your answers on a grid (grid coordinates!) to make a picture or solve a maze. There are 3 different levels of Venn Perplexors. You can also get them from Rainbow here: Math Mosaics Venn Perplexors The Math Detective Series is not the one you linked, but the one from Critical Thinking Press, for one-stop-shopping, also available at Rainbow: Math Detective Another fun place to get those topics like probability, variables, grids, etc. is Zacarro's Challenge Math. I have it but we've only gotten to the first couple of chapters. I'm hoping to do it alongside 6a/b next year. These are great supplements that hit those few "missing" topics in a fun way without having to slog through a whole second curriculum which is also going to duplicate the bulk of Singapore. Oh that's perfect!! Thanks so much! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
profmom Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 Was the test prep book enough for your dc to make up the slack? Which one did you use may I ask? Thank you so much for your reply. :) Jennifer The test prep book (Better Test Scores ordered from BJU) was ok, and it did seem to work for my oldest. However, what I think would have worked better is if I had been more consistent with Math Minutes during the year! You can see samples at the link, but it's 10 problems a day a few times a week. These seem to cover every topic needed for test prep, but it's spread out over the year so you can gradually talk about them instead of all in the last 2-3 weeks before the test (the way I have always used the test prep book). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christine in al Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 ? Christine in aL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
profmom Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 ?Christine in aL It may take care of the testing issue! I haven't had a chance to try yet. I've always used the U.S. editions, and my 2nd dc has been on a B-A schedule (3B & 4A this year). The site says to only change to the Standards edition at the A books so, if we stay with SM with this child, I would give Standards a try with 5A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matryoshka Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 What about Singapore Standards Edition ?Christine in aL I'm pretty sure the Standards Edition takes care of the "problem" with lining up with testing - it was specifically rewritten and reorganized to align with CA standards, which I'm assuming line up pretty well with what would be on a standardized test. I do know the negative numbers, grid coordinates and variables are all in there. I haven't looked at it that extensively, though, since I feel comfortable with the US edition at this point, and it's been working great, and I don't feel like switching this late in the game. So there. :tongue_smilie: If I were starting out now, I might very well go with Standards, though, for this very reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibbygirl Posted May 27, 2009 Author Share Posted May 27, 2009 The test prep book (Better Test Scores ordered from BJU) was ok, and it did seem to work for my oldest. However, what I think would have worked better is if I had been more consistent with Math Minutes during the year! You can see samples at the link, but it's 10 problems a day a few times a week. These seem to cover every topic needed for test prep, but it's spread out over the year so you can gradually talk about them instead of all in the last 2-3 weeks before the test (the way I have always used the test prep book). Thank you .:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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