joannqn Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 I really don't know what I'm doing when it comes to teaching accelerated kids. I changed curriculum for my daughter last year after we got her test results back because it was obvious that I wasn't challenging her at all. Now I have this year's results back and I'm wondering if I need to do some more tweaking. The test we use through our virtual academy is a computerized adaptive test. All grades, 3-12, take the same test. The test results come back with what percentile the student is compared to his grade level. It also has a RIT score, which can be used to evaluate progress over time, as the scales are stable from year to year. The scales tell you the median score for each grade 2-10 in each section of the test. So here's what her scores look like: Last year, she was 8yo/3rd grade. This year, she is 9yo/4th grade. Language Usage: Last year: 231 = off the scale (10th grade is 225) This year: 227 = off the scale (10th grade is 225) Reading: Last year: 225 = 9th grade This year: 225 = 9th grade Math: Last year: 215 = between 4th/5th grade This year: 224 = 6th grade So, while I obviously don't have to worry about her falling behind, I'm wondering about the lack of progress in language usage and reading. Would you just not worry about it assuming that eventually her actual age and her achievement level will meet and then she'll start progressing? Or would you change curriculum so that she can make progress each year? Her lowest section on her reading test was reading comprehension, which really baffles me. It was at about 4th/5th grade but she seems to comprehend what she reads well. My guess is that she was stumped by inference, deduction type questions. While we reads very well, she prefers to read books that are way below her reading level because of content...she is only 9 and likes to read books that appeal to 9 year olds, like Spiderwick. She did well on the other reading test sections which were word recognition, knowledge of text components, think critically and analyze, read different materials for a variety of purposes. We started using Michael Clay Thompson this year because I was trying to avoid repetition and work that was too easy. We started with the Island level, completed it, and have done part of the Town level. While she is learning a little with this curriculum, I'm wondering if it is enough. We also use Spelling Power and IEW. What, if anything, would you change, do, or add for curriculum next year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 I wouldn't worry. Tests like these are not very sensitive and are undoubtedly not designed to bring in accurate results for children who are far from the average. As far as reading comprehension is concerned, I suspect that you are right: her decoding skills are running far ahead of her comprehension skills. That's something that will probably sort itself out in time. Calvin has always read at least five grades ahead of his age, but has only in the past year been comfortable doing any kind of inference or deduction. If you wanted to, you could look at Reading Detective, or something similar, but waiting may well be all that is required. I don't know whether you have seen them, but I have some reading lists for advanced readers. They attempt to marry age-appropriate stories with an interesting level of language use. Best wishes Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt_Uhura Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 I wouldn't worry at all either...not at the level she's performing. Maturity comes into play and higher level books can be inappropriate. She is doing great. The main question is...does she love learning? Does she pursue learning on her own? Is she investigating topics she is passionate about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joannqn Posted May 12, 2009 Author Share Posted May 12, 2009 I wouldn't worry at all either...not at the level she's performing. Maturity comes into play and higher level books can be inappropriate. She is doing great. The main question is...does she love learning? Does she pursue learning on her own? Is she investigating topics she is passionate about? To answer your questions... No. No. Not really...unless you count buying and playing with Webkinz (the stuffed animal not the website) and Spiderwick "investigating topics she is passionate about." She also likes being read to. By not realizing she was ahead, I spent the first three years of homeschooling teaching at grade level rather than at her level. Thus she learned to be lazy and to dislike "school". Occasionally, she'll come up with something neat on her own like yesterday. I suggested that she research stop motion filming and she says that she already did. I'm guessing that she spent 12-20 minutes looking at websites. Now she's trying to come up with something else to do a film about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mamasteff Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 I'm going to disagree with Laura as far as the "tests like these are not very sensitive" - you mentioned it was the computer based adaptive test, it is VERY sensitive to correct and incorrect answers and adapts accordingly. A couple of thoughts as a mom and teacher who uses these tests: 1) 10th grade is usually as high as these tests are going to take you. I would definitely not be concerned about "not progressing." Your reading level may not have changed in the last 10 years, but your education is progressing as you (as an adult) continue to read, think and respond. This is the goal for your student. 2) Your teacher should be able to get you a report showing the number of and type of questions that she "missed" in reading comprehension (if not the precise questions), so that you will be able to precisely identify them. (Sounds like you already have a good idea of what area is her weakest, and good suggestion by you and Laura as to why). Then, you very naturally introduce those questions in to her current reading schedule - create your own to help her learn to deduce and reason. 3) By the way, as a 4th grader, she really is not READY for the logical stage quite yet... this will develop in the next year or so! (have to reference WTM here - helped me understand the working of the child's brain better than most pedagogical tomes.) Even as an extremely gifted child, there are parts of the brain that are not ready for the leaps of logic quite yet. All of those infer and deduce questions are logic level. You can't teach what time develops. (by the way - she is about a year younger than mine, and her scores are eerily similar! this year we have been boosting her math attitude by reminding her that while those were her "lowest" scores, she is still above grade level. Encourage her to think of herself as GOOD at math!!!) For next year... you didn't mention what her spelling looks like, but everything else she has strong scores in. My recommendation, if you were in my virtual school class, would be to have her read those "classic" children's books that most of today's kids think are way too difficult. Secret Garden, A Little Princess, Treasure Island, the "real" Robin Hood, anything by Louisa May Alcott. The older books (100 years ago) will be written at a much higher level, but are interesting for younger kids. Natural spelling and vocabulary lists can be drawn from those unfamiliar words in the chapters. You're doing a great job! (Pat on the back). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melinda Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 I don't have any advice, but I have to tell you how cute that video is. She did a good job! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt_Uhura Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 Is this computerized adaptive test available to anyone or is it specific to this virtual academy? I would just help her to pursue areas of interest and try to find things that spark her love of learning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joannqn Posted May 13, 2009 Author Share Posted May 13, 2009 1) 10th grade is usually as high as these tests are going to take you. I would definitely not be concerned about "not progressing." Your reading level may not have changed in the last 10 years, but your education is progressing as you (as an adult) continue to read, think and respond. This is the goal for your student. That makes sense. Even though the school says they won't care if her scores drop or don't move, I'm still worried they might if it doesn't move forward over a couple/few/several years. They tell me that they are only concerned when the scores drop below the 30th percentile. 2) Your teacher should be able to get you a report showing the number of and type of questions that she "missed" in reading comprehension (if not the precise questions), so that you will be able to precisely identify them. (Sounds like you already have a good idea of what area is her weakest, and good suggestion by you and Laura as to why). Then, you very naturally introduce those questions in to her current reading schedule - create your own to help her learn to deduce and reason. I'll ask if they can get me a report like this. I was not aware of this possibility. I'm not entire sure what exactly induce/deduce/infer etc. mean when talking about types of questions so I'll be looking for some information/curriculum. 3) By the way, as a 4th grader, she really is not READY for the logical stage quite yet... this will develop in the next year or so! (have to reference WTM here - helped me understand the working of the child's brain better than most pedagogical tomes.) Even as an extremely gifted child, there are parts of the brain that are not ready for the leaps of logic quite yet. All of those infer and deduce questions are logic level. You can't teach what time develops. Ok, I'll wait on that then. We've been doing mindbenders which she enjoys. The grade 3-6 books are mostly easy, although there are a few that stump her. (by the way - she is about a year younger than mine, and her scores are eerily similar! this year we have been boosting her math attitude by reminding her that while those were her "lowest" scores, she is still above grade level. Encourage her to think of herself as GOOD at math!!!) Funny! My daughter hated math. It took a long time to undo the damage using Saxon caused. Switching to MUS made a big difference; now she tolerates math. For next year... you didn't mention what her spelling looks like, but everything else she has strong scores in. My recommendation, if you were in my virtual school class, would be to have her read those "classic" children's books that most of today's kids think are way too difficult. Secret Garden, A Little Princess, Treasure Island, the "real" Robin Hood, anything by Louisa May Alcott. The older books (100 years ago) will be written at a much higher level, but are interesting for younger kids. Natural spelling and vocabulary lists can be drawn from those unfamiliar words in the chapters. The spelling, punctuation, capitalization section was her second highest in the language usage test. She's a really good speller overall. I started having her read higher level classics this last year after getting last year's test and realizing she was capable of so much more than I was requiring. She's been reading Little Women for about 3 months; it's taking forever because she is not enjoying it. Up until recently, I was letting the kids choose their own books and reading the classics aloud as a family. You're doing a great job! (Pat on the back). Thank you. I'm pretty sure that I didn't teach her most of it though. She knows things that I've never taught her and I'm baffled by how she learned it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joannqn Posted May 13, 2009 Author Share Posted May 13, 2009 Is this computerized adaptive test available to anyone or is it specific to this virtual academy? It is the MAP assessment. I know that it isn't limited to just our virtual academy. I'm not sure if you can get it outside of taking it through a public school. Perhaps you have a school nearby that uses it that you can participate in their testing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sindaena Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 I'm going to disagree with Laura as far as the "tests like these are not very sensitive" - you mentioned it was the computer based adaptive test, it is VERY sensitive to correct and incorrect answers and adapts accordingly. You're doing a great job! (Pat on the back). MAP isn't very sensitive at the top end. You can look at this site: http://www.geocities.com/gordonite32/misc/MAPtest.htm or search MAP measures of academic progress gifted to read more discussions of the lack of sensitivity for high achieving children. Just the same you (and your dc!) are doing great. :) Elizabeth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joannqn Posted May 13, 2009 Author Share Posted May 13, 2009 MAP isn't very sensitive at the top end. You can look at this site: http://www.geocities.com/gordonite32/misc/MAPtest.htm or search MAP measures of academic progress gifted to read more discussions of the lack of sensitivity for high achieving children. Just the same you (and your dc!) are doing great. :) Elizabeth Thanks for the link. I didn't understand half of it but noticed that it said high achieving students experience negative growth, which is what happened here. I was also able to locate a percentile chart. All three come out lower than last year. Language usage dropped from 99th to 97th. Reading dropped from 99th to 94th. Math dropped from 88th to 80th. So, is there a recommended test for gifted students? The MAP is easiest for me because the school takes care of it. All I have to do is download the program and give them remote access to my computer to proctor it. I can use any other test that the state of WA recognizes...but I have to pay for it, proctor it (if I qualify to proctor it) or find a proctor, and submit the scores. I can get the costs reimbursed but it comes out of our student fund that we have no problem spending on other things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 Where do you think her level is? My son also tests very high. But it sometimes is for the wrong reasons. Bright kids can be very good at taking tests, but may still need more instruction in whatever area. So I would go with what you know her level is from working with her. Standardized tests aren't really designed to help much with major curriculum decisions; they are better for confirming impressions you already have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowan25 Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 I don't know whether you have seen them, but I have some reading lists for advanced readers. They attempt to marry age-appropriate stories with an interesting level of language use. Best wishes Laura This is totally off the original post, but WOW!!!!!! I love these lists and this is exactly what I'm looking for. My 5 year old now has books she can read! :) Thank you for taking the time to do this and post it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joannqn Posted May 13, 2009 Author Share Posted May 13, 2009 (edited) Where do you think her level is? My son also tests very high. But it sometimes is for the wrong reasons. Bright kids can be very good at taking tests, but may still need more instruction in whatever area. So I would go with what you know her level is from working with her. Standardized tests aren't really designed to help much with major curriculum decisions; they are better for confirming impressions you already have. The thing is that I don't know if I'm choosing curriculum that covers all of the areas. I watched part of the test and kept finding things that we didn't cover. I don't know if we didn't cover it because I'm missing things or because it will be taught in later years. Some of obviously later years; I've been shocked (both last year and this) by how difficult some of the questions that the test gives her. But others seem like things that should have been included in our curriculum at levels we've covered but weren't. The thing is, I don't know where these gaps are unless I see them in another curriculum or on a test question. It is these gaps that prevent me from just jumping her several grade levels ahead curriculum-wise. ETA: For example, we don't have any reading comprehension or literature beyond independent reading and read alouds. We talk about the books but I don't really know what questions to ask or what to point out without a guide. It's basically limited to "what happened in the book" or me pointing out things (ie. foreshadowing) that occur to me from the limited knowledge that I remember from public school. I've been thinking about getting Teaching the Classics in hopes it would improve my ability to discuss/teach literature. I've also thought about getting her something like Lightening Literature. Edited May 13, 2009 by joannqn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donna Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 ETA: For example, we don't have any reading comprehension or literature beyond independent reading and read alouds. We talk about the books but I don't really know what questions to ask or what to point out without a guide. It's basically limited to "what happened in the book" or me pointing out things (ie. foreshadowing) that occur to me from the limited knowledge that I remember from public school. Lightning Literature is an excellant program. If you aren't quite sure if she is ready to do it yet or just want to save it for a little later down the road, the "Suppose the Wolf Were an Octopus" series is excellant. Each level of the books has books lists and for each book listed there are questions that cover all the different levels of thinking knowledge, comprehension, application, analysis, synthesis, and evaluation. After using LL with my oldest, I was looking for a LL type program for my younger two and theses books really were exactly what I was looking for. The book choices are great books and the questions will help them to begin thinking in ways that will make LL very easy for them when they get there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joannqn Posted May 13, 2009 Author Share Posted May 13, 2009 Lightning Literature is an excellant program. If you aren't quite sure if she is ready to do it yet or just want to save it for a little later down the road, the "Suppose the Wolf Were an Octopus" series is excellant. Each level of the books has books lists and for each book listed there are questions that cover all the different levels of thinking knowledge, comprehension, application, analysis, synthesis, and evaluation. After using LL with my oldest, I was looking for a LL type program for my younger two and theses books really were exactly what I was looking for. The book choices are great books and the questions will help them to begin thinking in ways that will make LL very easy for them when they get there. My biggest concern about the Suppose a Wolf Were an Octopus series is the fact that it seems many of the books they cover are exclusively published/sold by Fireworks Press. We don't have the money to be buying books/novels. All of our literature comes from the library. That, and we've already read some of the books at various levels. Do you think that they would still be worth it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budeb Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 I wouldn't know how to put a video together like that. Good for her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budeb Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 (edited) oops, wrong spot Edited May 14, 2009 by budeb oops... wrong spot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joannqn Posted May 14, 2009 Author Share Posted May 14, 2009 I don't know whether you have seen them, but I have some reading lists for advanced readers. They attempt to marry age-appropriate stories with an interesting level of language use. Thank you for the link to your lists. I looked through the lists for 7, 8, 9, and 10 years of age and see a few that we've tried, but most we haven't. So, we'll pick some more to try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 What really helped me, more than any test ever did, to place my son (younger) language arts wise was to give him the K12 LA placement test and then use all of the materials without modification at the level he placed for about 4 months. When my son was just beginning K he placed into their grade 2 program and in January of his K year we began using the grade 2 materials. I found out what was easy and difficult at that level and then for his 1st grade year I chose materials accordingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arch at Home Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 Your comment made me look twice. I did a quick check of our online catalogue and more than half of the books are in our online catalogue though I did not find many of the Fireworks Press. With as many books listed I think that I can work around the Fireworks books or request them through Interlibrary loan. I even found an old copy of Suppose the Wolf were an Octopus in our library so I will get to preview prior to purchasing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.