Memorizing math facts is important - but kids at this age need to be able to associate those facts with something tangible. That's where manipulatives (in your case fingers) come in. I didn't focus a lot with dd 10 memorizing math facts - we did no flash cards - as a matter of fact I don't think she would have done flashcards. However, here we are finishing up 4B and she has memorized her addition, subtraction and multiplaction tables. She has used them and used them and used them over the past years and has memorized them even without drilling it into oblivion. She understands the concept of addition, subtraction and multiplication - even is she didn't have the answer memorized she knows how to calculate it and isn't that what math is really all about anyway? Just MHO....LOL JoAnne:tongue_smilie:

I wouldn't say she's behind or that you've lost momentum - however, having a gifted child myself I have to say you might want to consider looking at the "levels" and skimming over the things she already knows. The fastest way to kill a child's joy of learning is to tie them to a level rather than to let them grow at their own pace. Nothing says you can't do modified school days through the summer. I don't know what your state requires but if you need to make something up to meet requirements the summer is a good time to do it. HTH, JoAnne

I understand what it's like to teach multiple children. I think if the program you use is TOO teacher intensive you won't do it. It's going to have to be something you can teach and your son can learn from. Most kids (notice I didn't say all kids) need manipulatives at this early age. Number sense is an abstract concept and they have to be able to tie that abstract concept to something concrete - ie manipulatives. Now, I'm not saying go hog crazy on manipulatives or anything - we used M&M's for math, cheetos, carrot sticks, raisons, pennys etc. Start early - that's the best advice I can give you - start with number sense and 1:1 correspondence - count things often, count by 1's, 2's, 5's 10's etc. When you've done that decide if you want to use a spiral approahc or a mastery approach. Saxon and Horizon are a couple of spiral approach programs. Mastery programs are those like Right Start, Math U See, Singapore Math. MUS is a good program to start with for the busy mom IMO because the DVD teaches the parent how to teach the ath, and can be used for the student to watch as well. Not only that again IMO it has the best approach for teaching place value I've come accross. I tried Right Start and couldn't do it - too scripted, too time consuming etc. We did MUS for a year, but it wasn't working for my dd (who is actually very good at math) and so we moved to Singapore Math which has been a good fit for my kids. However, keep in mind that the best math program for me, or any other homeschool my be the worst for you and yours. If you're interested in MUS you can watch the demo on their website. If you want to look into Right Start I'd suggest thoroughly reading about it. Also - don't forget the importance of play - it's amazing how kids will take to a subject like math when it is in a game - think Snap, etc... Leap Frog used to make a group of card games for math, my kids were having so much fun playing the games they didn't realize it was really school work! I throw math into our everyday lives. For instance, I tell them "Ok there's going to 2 extra people at dinner tonight - how many places do we need to set - ok, if everyone is going to eat 4 TBSPs of beans how many TBSPs of beans do I have to make to be sure I have enough for everyoen?" Or - I'm going to make a cake - we're going to double this recipe - it says I need 1/2 cup oil - if I'm making twice as much cake how much oil will I need total etc...etc. I find cooking and grocery shopping make for excellent math lessons especially in the really early years. HTH, JoAnne

Oh my goodness - you hit the nail on the head! I noticed a few months ago that when I should have had PMS dd got it (you know the old idea that women in the same house have cycles that align). At any rate, I am 100% certain she has hit puberty - she hasn't started her "cycle" yet but her hormones are definitely in gear! The insomnia and anxiety were getting worse during that time of the month. However, it has been better since we started the supplement with Valerian root. Although I don't think I have PMS - (tongue in cheeck here!) I do notice that I actually have more insomnia as well during that time. At any rate, thanks for the input.

YEAH!!! We've found a combination that works. First we use a fan for white noise in her room. I've reinvented the bedtime routine - schedule etc. I no longer let her sleep late just because she didn't sleep because I've found it starts a vicious cycle with her. She can take a short nap during the day if needed but no sleeping until 10:30 or 11. We've also added a product called Power to Sleep PM. I found it at the Sunshine Market one morning. I didn't find anything about valerian root and kids so I asked a doctor I work with he said it is fine for my dd (fyi she is almost 100#'s and is nearly 5 ft tall). So far it is working fairly well. There have been 1 or two nights that have been a struggle - but I think part of that has to do with hormonal changes than anything else. At any rate, thanks for all the advice and commiserating. I was so desparate when I posted - desparate and exhausted! JoAnne

The keyboardtownpals don't require them to spell yet. It is just simply where the keys are on the keyboard. I get the price thing. Also I have an Aspie too - she hated the program. Loved SpongeBob typing though... I hated it but she can type. Also - YES typing makes writing MUCH easier with SN kids. HTH, JoAnne

Can people compare - tell me what you like/don't like. I'm not sure which to use for dd 10 (going into 5th) who is a reluctant writer - unfortunately we didn't do a lot of copywork/narration early on. I'm also looking at WWE for ds 7 going into 2nd grade. I don't know if I'm sold on copywork and narration but after dd's problems with writing I figure it can't hurt to try it. Thanks for the input. JoAnne

Keyboard Town Pals - they sell it as a CD Rom on Amazon however the publisher is: http://www.keyboardtownpals.com/ It's around $40 can be CD Rom or web based. It really does work. I don't know how an 8 year old would feel about it. My dd 9 hated it but ds 7 loved it. It uses puppets - and is written specifically for kids to learn where keys are on the keyboard. HTH, JoAnne

For the money - if you could only choose one program - artistic pursuits or Atelier which would you choose? Also - thanks so much for the feedback I really appreciate it. JoAnne

Another question - How many art project is in each module of Atelier? If I purchased say 4a Atelier for dd 10 and ds 7 and book 1 from Artistic Pursuits would that cover a year? 6 months??? wow.. this is getting pricey! JoAnne

Has anyone tried Artistic Pursuits and Atelier? I'm wondering if someone can compare the two and tell me what they liked/didn't like about each.

My mom is a a teacher - and they have to tie their lesson plans to state standards to demonstrate how they are addressing them. I don't get that complicated - there really isn't a need to. However, what I do is at the end of the year I write goals for each child. For instance last year ds 7 was improving phonics and reading, addition and subtraction and improving handwriting. Everything other than that was gravy. This helps me to focus my hs dollars and to be sure I am addressing the needs of my kids. I have a tendancy to go overboard - there are so many great programs and I want to do them all! :tongue_smilie: Keep in mind that hsing is not public schooling. Teachers in ps have 20-30 kids - they have to be able to identify where those children are and set goals for them because there are so many of them. Plus they have to be accountable to principles, the state education department etc and have to prepare the kids for standardized testing. HSer's don't have to do all of those thigns - perhaps they have to prepare for standardized tests - but I don't know very many hsers who don't know what their children's learning challenges are. That type of lesson planning is almost overkill in hs. I have a schedule based upon my goals and the curricula I'm using. I don't care if what I'm using meets the standards the education system in my state has set because they are so incredibly low. HTH, JoAnne

I think a lot depends on your kids and their individual levels. It was too hard for me to combine my two. DD 10 is very advanced and runs through things. DS7 is much less interested in history and although he is very advanced in math and science he takes a lot longer with history. He is also not interested in sitting and listening in on read alouds. For this reason I had to split them. DD is an auditory learner and loves the literature approach of SL - ds is visual and frankly SL offers nothing for him. I know PLENTY of people who combine multiple kids (a friend with 6 has two in the upper core and the other 4 in a younger core - she is doing Core K with her 4,5,7 and 8 year olds and Core 5 with her 10 and 11 year olds). HTH, JoAnne

I have a couple of ideas for you that may or may not work for your family. I have a VERY reluctant writer in my dd. We use Voyages in English - the 2006 version. I can not stress the publication date enough. There is a version from the 1960's that I could not use for a great many reasons. The 2006 version has two parts to one book, the front part is writing and study type skills. They introduce pre-writing, drafting, content editing then publishing. This technique has worked well for dd. (FYI we've done IEW, and Writing Strands - neither of which worked for us). For prewriting I help her by writing her ideas down. We start with a 5 minute brain storm period where she comes up with all the ideas she can in 5 minutes. We could also use a tape recorder for this but I've just always been the scribe for this portion. Then she organizes the ideas, does a rough draft, edits it for content to see if she needs to add or change anything, then she edits for grammar/spelling (usually does the rough draft through publishing on the computer) and then publishes. The back of the book is all grammar. That said, VIE also has a workbook style grammar program called Exercises in English. This is a very sound program as well. If you are interested go to www.voyagesinenglish.com Just so you're aware VIE and EIE are published by Loyola Press - however the program is more secular in nature. I have not seen any Catholic doctrine in the books at all. As a matter of fact they use these books in a local Christian school a friend of mine's daughter goes to. HTH, JoAnne

Just to throw a kink in everything has anyone heard of Academy of Science for Kids? They sell science kits that are complete. In addition to the science kits you get free acess to the Discovery Kids website that has TONS of info, tests, readings etc for each and every project. My kids LOVED the kit and it literally does include everything but the water. There was no running around looking for supplies - we had EVERYTHING. Now, I did add in some library books on various topics just cause I wanted them but my kids were content to read about it online. Here's a link: http://www.academyofscienceforkids.com/ FYI - depending on which kit you choose, how often you do science, how often you do experiments you could use just two kits in a year - or stretch one out the entire 36 weeks. We have done it both ways. When we made one kit last a year we did studies for 1 week on the topic then the next week we did the experiment. HTH, JoAnne

Someone already mentioned Ambleside online - that would be a good place to start. It's free. Anothe choice would be find a SL core IG used (would be fairly cheap - I've seen them as low as $15). Then use library books instead of purchasing the books themselves. I've also done this by using the catalog - didn't purchase the IG just read the books and made up my own questions but is more work. HTH, JoAnne

Depending upon why his handwriting is bad.... you could use something like Loops and Other Groups for cursive. My dd used it and her writing is now beautiful. She also used HWT for years - but the Loops and Other Groups made the difference. We got it free from an OT but you can buy it online. The other option is purchase the HWT paper and make your own practice for him. HTH, JoAnne

I plod through and get done what I can get done. Sometimes I wonder what all has been absorbed! However, I don't want dc to think that if they're in a mood the world is going to stop - they have got to live with this issue the rest of their lives and that might mean on days when they are having trouble focusing they still have to get up and go to work etc. That being said I've found that keeping things consitent in the house really helps - that means even if it is an "off day" we at least do some school because it is a school day. When I've given in and thrown in the towel things just get worse. They need that consitancy - they sometimes need the work to keep their minds off the other things as well. HTH, JoAnne

Just some ideas for savings/bringing in some income. First - what about in home child care? I don't know if this is a possibility for anyone but it might allow you to keep homeschooling. Another idea is medical transcription or medical coding. There are classes at most community colleges in one semester you could be done taking classes at night. I realize this might not be an option for everyone - but just an idea. At any rate A LOT of medical transcriptionists work from home as do a lot of medical coders. You could work at night at home after the kids are in bed and hs during the day. My DH lost his job in 2004 - after a year of searching he went back to school. However, we are in a pretty unique situation. I am a nurse and was able to go to work full time - three days a week. I still do the hsing. However, I do have a thought for the moms reluctant to let the dh take over - my dh had the SAME issues at fist. However, he learned to work with the kids and now is regretting going back to work full time because he really cherishes the time he has with the kids. He went through a HORRIBLE depression that he was able to come through. It was very hard for him to think he wasn't supporting his family. At any rate, he did the hsing for a while, it gave him a sense of purpose. I wrote out the schedule and told him exactly what had to be done. He did it. At first it was a huge chore but he got through it. It was an opportunity for him to grow and to bond with his kids. When he was working he worked 60-80 hour weeks sometimes. That didn't leave a lot of time with the family. His entire outlook has changed and family has again become his focus. Also - I have a couple of $$$ saving ideas - I don't know if any of you have gone through the SHARE program or Angel food ministries but they provide a box of food (enough food for a family of 4 for 1 week) and they accept food stamps for around $30/box. The quality is pretty good. We've used both programs before and found it to be a great help. Here are links to their websites: Share is - http://www.sharecolorado.com/ They are in several states. If Share is not in your state try Angel Food - their website is https://www.angelfoodministries.com/ HTH, JoAnne

OK - this might not be inclusive as I've choosen to forget many of the over-priced wastes of money I've bought that just plain didn't work for us. Things that didn't work for dd: MUS - started out great, I loved it - she HATED it. Shirley Grammar - too scripted First Language Lessons - boring Real Science 4 Kids - Chemistry level 1 I hate to admit this because *I* really liked the idea of it especially with the new KOGS books - but there is too much covered with the KOGS, boring and a bit over dd's head. Voyages in English copyright 1966 - (LOVE the 2006 VIE though!) Itallic handwriting SL LA1 - the OLD LA where they learned about antecedents LONG before nouns were even introduced! SL I Can Read books - oh my goodness - do people even talk like the characters in those books? DD HATED it - she used to tell me "Mom, these are NOT grand!":lol: WRTR -AGH! what??? this was awful! WP AS1 - but I made it work with LOTS of tweaking - basically got rid of their spine and their schedule and used the books. Great book choices - but the schedule was absolutely useless! Misses for DS - WP Hideaways in history - BIG waste of money and time - too disjointed WP Accelerated LA K - again BIG waste - very disjointed SL K - which suprised me because dd LOVED this core! Real Science 4 Kids - prelevel chemistry - he's just not getting it! 100 EZ Lessions - which is how dd learned to read Phonics Road - I so wanted this to work - but it didn't SL's I Can Read Books - I guess I'd forgotten how bad they were! Ok - that's enough negatives! :tongue_smilie: This was fun in a cleansing sort of way! JoAnne

Same here - and I keep getting sucked in as well - even though I KNOW the schedule is disjointed, nothing flows and it's overpriced - and you have to wait for your books - I don't think I've ever had an order from them go the way it was supposed to! JoAnne

Singapore makes (so long as Sonlight isn't sold out of them that is) some supplemental books one is Intensive Practice which is just that INTENSIVE, Challenging Word Problems - which is actually a good blend, and the Extra Practice books. Like I said if you don't find them on Singaporemath.com try Sonlight. JoAnne

A couple of thoughts for you - First - I'd go mastery - something like MUS might be just the ticket for her. Also if she has a slight learning disability (which is a pretty broad term) find out how she learns - is she visual ie needs manipulatives, is she an auditory learner who needs to hear it, tactile etc. Finding out how she learns is going to really help with her success. Second I have dd turn her paper sideways so the lines form columns - you can accomplish the same thing with graph paper. What happens is they have trouble keeping things lined up and the columns help them follow better. Meet her where she is not where you hope/want her to be. If she uses her fingers ok - maybe she is visual/tactile - maybe you could find a suitable manipulative for her. Also know that she might not memorize things as readily as your children. She might not have the perfect recall. If that's the case make sure she understands the concept, can do the problem (ie knows that 3X6 is the same as 6+6+6) etc. Hope this helps, JoAnne

Voyages in Engish/Exercises in English - the 2006 or 2011 editions ONLY. The earlier editions were published by the Sisters of Charity etc and are very Catholic. The newer editions are still published by a Catholic company but I assure you are secular in nature - used in some public schools. It is a very thorough program. The front of the books is a writing/study skills program and the back half is all grammar. If you go to www.voyagesinenglish.com you can see samples etc. JoAnne

Any of the One Small Square books would be good. You also might look at the books in Winter Promise's Animal World curricula - there might be some good books in there. JoAnne