I suspect it depends on the particular doctor. The data they gather is still subject to their own individual selection and interpretation (and limited by the fact that they only observe the patient in their office, an artificial setting). Our son was evaluated by an autism specialist in conjunction with an NLD specialist, because our choices were limited by our insurance company. There was never any suspicion of autism on our part because he has never shown any sign of it, and since we also have an adopted child with Aspergers, we're intimately aware of every aspect of the disorder. :tongue_smilie: The idea that he might be on the spectrum literally drew laughter from the rest of the family when the doctor who did his eval zeroed in on a spectrum or NLD diagnosis. Orthopedic problems were perceived as toe walking. Insufficient eye contact was interpreted as an autistic behavior. Only problem is, the lack of eye contact occurs each time he is thinking about an answer to a question, and has nothing to due with social discomfort. I do the same thing because visual distraction interferes in my thinking. His language scores were higher than his non-language scores, but I think his language scores are higher because he reads a lot. He doesn't have any particular affinity for language vs math (another sibling has a language disorder, and he exhibits many of the same traits). There were no "red flags" for CAPD, even though he has trouble hearing someone right next to him in the car talking, hearing when someone is whispering directly in his ear, or picking up all the comments in a 3-way conversation. He describes what he hears as "unintelligible babble". But his hearing test is normal. The only part of the eval that seems to fit is the visual-spatial stuff and handwriting. I can't help but wonder if there is a bias toward finding autism/NLD since that is their specialty.

I could have written your post - I'm considering the exact same questions, so here's what's been going on with us so far. We took our 15 yo for a neuropsych because one of our other kids is dx'd with CAPD and we noticed similar behaviors. The evaluator we went to was an autism specialist (purely by coincidence - member of a group practice who had an opening) and seemed to zero in on Aspergers as the likely diagnosis (mentioned lack of eye contact, walking strangely). I found that incredibly odd because he doesn't show symptoms of Aspergers in other situations. Possible explanation: In "The Mislabled Child", the authors mention that working memory overload can lead to poor eye contact (his working memory scores were quite low) and his atypical walking is due to a previously diagnosed orthopedic problem. He is absolutely not on the spectrum. None of the criteria fit. But see how fast that assumption was made?:) He does have visual-spatial and motor problems, and in his case, the score discrepancy between verbal and non-verbal fits the NVLD profile. But in the Real World, he consistently tests higher on achievement tests in math concepts rather than in computation (seems opposite of the typical profile from what I've read). He's accelerated in math (although he skipped the subject entirely last year) and picks up new concepts almost immediately. Ditto science, and he also thinks very relationally, and is highly logical. No trouble with reading comprehension (difficulty with reading comprehension is a common weakness with NVLD, but he scores very high on achievement tests there, also). His achievement test scores are higher in the verbal than math (same results as the WISC). I have to wonder - realistically speaking, when both scores on a WISC are in the average or above average range, how does that translate into a "learning disability"? Clearly, he has Impaired Visual-Spatial Perception, handwriting difficulties and problems with Executive Function (illustrated by the low working memory score), but I believe his performance in the Real World proves that they exist independently of the other pronounced cognitive weaknesses that comprise a diagnosis of NVLD. His Real World performance seems to belie the outcomes of the tests that were administered, which is somewhat odd, but it is what it is. :) If someone were to label those weak areas as a particular learning disability without connecting it to the wider disability of NVLD, that would make more sense. As part of the diagnostic process, social difficulties (inability to hold normal conversations, read facial expressions, etc.) seem to be emphasized also. This is so off the mark in my son's case. Regarding what are considered "normal" social behaviors - what allowances are made for personality (ie a person who is by nature shy and reserved as he is)? Shy and reserved does not equal "anti-social". And should a 15 yo be considered socially inept because he doesn't have a girlfriend yet? Because he's religious and not sexually active? These are the types of psychological probes that would make many 15 yo's uncomfortable, yet they were part of the assessment process and were used as examples of social deficiency afterward. By this standard, anyone whose behavior is motivated by Christian morality in this area is automatically a social misfit needing therapy. The evaluator seems to want to apply the NVLD label, even though it is far from a perfect fit (and implies attributes that he doesn't possess). Admittedly, I may be a bit cynical, but this seems like a convenient diagnosis to slap on person who has coordination problems and comes off as a bit "geeky" if the Aspergers label can't be made to fit. I take with a grain of salt the notion that the observations made over the course of a day by an evaluator who has had no previous contact or opportunity to observe the subject are more accurate than those of other people who observe the subject over a wider range of situations. And even if the WISC scores show a notable gap between the two main areas, if a child is able to perform academically at an average or above average level on achievement tests across the board which are widely administered to the general population of school kids, and functions at an average or above average level in other areas (maybe took longer to learn to ride a bike but rides well now, maybe had difficulty learning to tie shoes but now does not, functions socially within a self-selected peer group of people with similar interests, etc.), is the main criterion, a standard deviation in the WISC scores between verbal and non-verbal, a reliable indicator of an LD label with such wide-ranging symptoms? Not in all cases, clearly, or you and I wouldn't be wondering at the discrepancies between the label and our own kids' functioning. I don't object to labels, provided they are accurate, but if they miss the mark, what good are they? As KarenAnne says, this is a relatively new diagnosis. Maybe it needs more refinement? If I were you, I would bring up my concerns with the doctor and communicate my reservations (or objections) to the diagnosis. If you're convinced it's not accurate, it probably isn't. Trust your own observations and instincts. Good luck!

This is true. It can be difficult to plan too far ahead, but you can observe as you go along and push forward or coast for a while, depending on how well they're able to absorb the material, and also how much time you want to spend tutoring (my rule of thumb is if they can't understand the majority of the work independently after I present a lesson, it's too difficult). Also, they may be ready to move to the next level, but whether or not you decide to have them do so depends on how much time you want to dedicate to math. Maybe there's a different subject you'd rather they be more focused on during a given school year so you choose to de-emphasize the math program for a while. There's no right or wrong approach, no "do or die" formula for success that everyone must follow. :)

:iagree:

Skip to Singapore NEM 1, maybe? One of my kids (3rd grade, almost 8, so similar to your kids) is using it. He also does pages in some of the Prufrock math supplement workbooks. The Kinetic Math looks like fun. Did you get the textbook to go with it or can it be used effectively on its own?

That's great news! It's not easy to find someone you're simpatico with in all regards, so when you do, you've really hit the jackpot! :) We've generally had the most luck with pediatric psychiatrists who understand autism. Speech therapists - one was awful, another fantastic. Developmental pediatrician opposed homeschooling, but audiologist favored it. What amazes me is the number of professionals in these areas who still don't perceive the benefits of homeschooling. One of our kids was "neuropsyched" last week, but from previous experience, I know there's a possibility their profile won't match his reality. It's just the chance we take each time we set foot in the diagnosis jungle! :lol:

This has good reviews (haven't read it myself, but have other books from Prufrock Press which have been fairly useful). http://www.amazon.com/Parenting-Gifted-Kids-Successful-Children/dp/1593631790/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1286465055&sr=1-2 Have you checked your public library system? You can probably find various books on the subject to peruse (lots published on the topic, but not all are particularly useful to own). :)

I've struggled with this issue as well. My kids are also close in age (with 5 boys in the mix). Some LD's to deal with, also. It seems like boys with even the most sanguine temperaments are wired to be competitive, territorial, etc. I agree with the other posters about using different programs to minimize the rivalry (and they also do lots of independent learning). With homeschooling, our kids are reduced to a very small group for comparison - mainly their siblings. So, they can develop a somewhat warped view of their own abilities, particularly if certain siblings are extremely gifted. Using different programs helps to minimize that aspect from both directions (one feeling deficient while the other might feel superior). And I try to avoid investing academics with too much importance in the scheme of things. The LD's, giftedness etc. are just something we try to take in stride. :)

Thanks! I think you've inadvertently tempted me toward ordering it - sounds like just the thing to have my teenagers read! :)

We've had evaluations done privately due to similar concerns. Maybe you could start with a neuropsych and follow up with whatever recommendations proceed from that.

Living With Intensity: Understanding the Sensitivity, Excitability, and the Emotional Development of Gifted Children, Adolescents, and Adults http://www.amazon.com/Living-Intensi...6299697&sr=1-1 Can anyone give us a review? It looks interesting, but I have WAY TOO MANY BOOKS already, and it's not formatted for the Nook, nor does my library have it. Is it worth getting anyway? :confused:

Living With Intensity: Understanding the Sensitivity, Excitability, and the Emotional Development of Gifted Children, Adolescents, and Adults http://www.amazon.com/Living-Intensity-Understanding-Sensitivity-Excitability/dp/0910707898/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1286299697&sr=1-1 Can anyone give us a review? It looks interesting, but I have WAY TOO MANY BOOKS already, and it's not formatted for the Nook, nor does my library have it. Is it worth getting anyway? :confused:

:) Not ElizabethB, but I have this book as well. It's for reading and spelling skills "of approximately 3rd grade level and above". Uses Greek and Latin word roots. Lessons are scripted and activities are included, but it's not a standard workbook with fill-in-the-blanks. "Five units of instruction focus on the following" - I. Letter-sound Correspondences II. Syllable Patterns III. Layers of Language: Anglo-Saxon, Latin, Greek IV. Morpheme Patterns V. Strategies for Decoding and Spelling Long, Unfamiliar Words Excellent approach, but if you want a teacher-friendly, pick-up-and-go program, Rewards is easier to use. HTH! :)

The workbooks have the program essentials neatly collected under one cover. It's much easier to buy the appropriate workbook level and work through those. :)

Visualizing and Verbalizing, maybe? That would be good if he pictures what he wants to say but needs practice formulating thoughts into words. "No-Glamour Idioms" is really helpful for teaching the meanings of idioms. http://www.linguisystems.com/itemdetail.php?id=10580 Also, the Scholastic Dictionary of Idioms: http://www.amazon.com/Scholastic-Dictionary-Idioms-Revised-Marvin/dp/0439770831/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1285964096&sr=1-1

For homeschooled kids who are somewhat "quirky" but not seriously impaired, I can see how some parents might not think there's much benefit to be had from the diagnosis mill, particularly since it's SO expensive and $$ might be better spent on remedial materials, tutoring, etc. And this might also be true in the case of kids whose problems are more severe, provided their parents feel confident and informed enough to deal with whatever their special needs require. I agree that it's important for kids to have an understanding of their personal "wiring", especially as they become aware of their learning differences. If an official diagnosis is helpful in that regard, then it is money well spent. One of our kids is severely dyslexic and we were able to remediate at home, but when I began to suspect CAPD (thank you, Hive!) we had him diagnosed at 10 yo, because we thought he might need accommodations for that down the line. Ditto another son (stealth dyslexia/gifted). CAPD suspicions were also the deal-breaker in his case. Our daughter is on the autism spectrum, and we RAN to the doctor when she was 3 yo because her behavior was quite extreme. I think labels (provided they are the correct ones:tongue_smilie:) are extremely beneficial for our own use, and there's no law that says we have to share them with all and sundry. :)

The concept clicked when we used this number line marker board in conjunction with problem-solving. http://www.rainbowresource.com/product/Student+Number+Line+Markerboard+-20+to+%2B20/014077/1285371326-1162247

And isn't decision-making one of the most exhausting aspects of homeschooling (and the thing that keeps these boards hopping?!!! :)) It would be so nice to just order curriculum, follow the plan, and use it all year! :tongue_smilie: It gets easier when they're old enough to direct their own studies to at least some degree.

I've found their math manual really helpful. :)

Neither! It's the natural result of having a lot on your plate. I have btdt (and it's ongoing :tongue_smilie:). There are only so many hours in the day and only so much energy we can devote to the myriad responsibilities we all juggle. Add to that a strenuous therapy routine, and who wouldn't feel overwhelmed by it all? :D The school work can be sidelined for a season when necessary, and the world won't end. :) If your child is mentally and physically drained by therapy, it seems reasonable to reduce the work load in other areas until you get over the hump. :)

:iagree:

An excess of courses not directly related to the major. Since becoming involved in homeschooling, my perspective regarding higher education has changed. So much knowledge can be gained by a motivated person independent of the classroom, and tuition costs are overinflated (according to the College Board, if the cost of a gallon of milk had increased at the same rate as tuition costs since 1980, we'd be paying $15.00!). Ultimately, education is just another product to be purchased. And who wants to purchase products for which they have no direct use? Case in point: a semester's worth of community service required for a computer science major. I do see the value of exposure to liberal arts (perhaps some "eminent" scientists who have permitted philosophy to replace evidence and logic wouldn't fall prey to this pitfall if they had learned to recognize the difference between the two). "Bean Counters" generally don't make successful entrepreneurs - there's a much wider array of skills required. And people who are able to master those skills are generally perfectly able to understand the nuances of industrial processing and cutting edge technology.

I haven't done a survey but wouldn't be surprised. Seems like it would be a clever marketing ploy to draw people in. :) By "assisting", do you mean a degree program combining business with science? That would be a practical and cost-efficient approach for the student, particularly if its completion required the omission of some of the extraneous courses that seem to punctuate the first two years. :tongue_smilie: If there is a program like that somewhere, seriously, I'd love to hear about it. :bigear: My eldest is at a LAC and I'm amazed by the number of irrelevant courses he's required to take. My next eldest is getting ready to apply to schools. From my experience, physics or history majors seriously interested in moving into business go for MBA's (or at least double majors as undergrads).

Maybe. Babson isn't a LAC, though. I got a degree there, and the people we were exposed to weren't just students running businesses - they were really heavy hitters in the international business realm. http://www3.babson.edu/