It covers all the highlights of the Medieval Age (including non-Western Civ events), offers some worthwhile activities (eg. keeping track of the Chinese Dynasties to see how they flow, the excellent timeline suggestions, the quizzes which keep reviewing the information in a painless way), and allows enough to time to explore and expand to your (and son's) heart's content. In summary, MOH 2 covers the basics so you can dig deep when and how you will. HTH,

I agree with the suggestion to read For the Children's Sake. An oldie but a goodie. Also, since you are looking at "easing up", you might look at Bluedorn's Teaching the Trivium and even Latin Centered Curriculum (both books have a "less is more" philosophy, although quite different in implementation.)

Sing Spell Read and Write + Alphaphonics--used with all five children (starting way back in '92). SSRW for a fun, easy, doable phonics program, Alphaphonics for drill practice. Abeka K math: I like this text as an easy, colorful intro into math. We only ever used the workbook--no teacher's materials. If we couldn't figure something out, we skipped it. R&S Math: used 1-7th since discovering it 8 years ago R&S Bible: Grades 5-8: This four year program covers the entire Bible. I've been very pleased with it, and it has worked well with my wide variety of learners. Jensen's Grammar: used with four of the five so far (8th grade); next year will be my last time through.... Sonlight K-100--started way back in '93 with this and all my children have gone through most of these cores (and all the wonderful books) in some fashion or another. This coming year we will be going through Core 100 for the last time. Sniff, sniff. (Sonlight's claim to help you build a home library is true--when my college daughters come home, they will usually pick out a book to read and relax by, and most often it's a Sonlight book....) It took me 5-7 years to find some things (math, for instance) but when I find something that works for me and my students, I stick with it. I'd rather work around known problems and shortfalls than get something new and have a new host of difficulties to straighten out.

Hake is a complete grammar book, set up with a methodology patterned after Saxon Math---one new topic is introduced per day, but the cementing of the concept is spread out over weeks and weeks of review. I think Hake would be especially difficult to use to target a specific area to work on. I can't think of one text that would cover everything you wanted: capitalization (the list is pretty short--most upper elementary texts would cover everything you need to know regarding capitalization), advanced punctuation (try a high school text or Jensen's Punctuation (more on this text below), and for formatting quotes, etc, that is generally covered in the writing portion of English courses on a need-to-know basis and a good grammar handbook would have the information. If you wanted just *one* text for all the above, I would recommend Abeka's Grammar series--pick 7th, 8th, or 9th grade depending on her past experience. They review punctuation and capitalization rules thoroughly and mainly in one place--at the beginning of the book. Of course, those topics are hit again as they are met going through the remainder of the text (eg. when studying the noun chapter, the rule about proper nouns being capitalized will again be brought to the fore). Abeka's worktext is very easy to use, with clear examples, and many exercises (we do a small portion of the "underline all the nouns" type and most all of the "construct a sentence to fit this grammatical construction"--those exercises require a greater mastery). It is also cheaper than Hake's if you can live without the tests and quizzes (we happily do). For a thorough introduction to punctuation, I would recommend Jensen's Punctuation. This worktext (can be used as a consumable or not--your choice) is also based on Saxon's methodology, but because the topic is already narrowed (punctuation), it works well to *really cement* those punctuation rules. It used to be published in two parts, Major Punctuation and General Punctuation, but now is combined into one text. The Major Punctuation portion does a great job of explaining proper use of semi-colons. Your daughter will definitely need to understand clauses, phrases, and subordinating clauses before beginning it. General punctuation covers most other punctuation needs. I like to use this text, though, in high school as it helps the student really nail down properly constructed and punctuated sentences which counts greatly in the standardized college testing game. HTH,

As a previous poster stated, Sonlight 100 includes few books that are considered "American Lit"--only three that I counted (Red Badge of Courage, Call of the Wild, To Kill a Mockingbird)--they reserve more traditional titles for their Core 400 program. I have most of the Core 100 program from my older children (bought when it was called Core 7) and my 9th grader has already read many of those books. He will be using primarily the Hakim portion. I am not concerned with how "high school" level it is because (after visiting my daughter's college classes (private school, merit scholarships), I have discovered that the most important element of high school content subjects (lit and history in particular) is the interaction the student has with the material (types of writing, discussion of ideas, planning and executing projects)--if that is at a high school level, my student will be well prepared for college (and beyond). However, you mentioned All American History--I've not really looked at it because my crew is (on average) too old for it. I do know that it is published by a Christian publisher, so it may be closer to what you are looking for. HTH,

I have several of the LL&C courses: Speech, British Christian Authors, World Lit I, and LL7. There *is* literary analysis taught in these LL&C courses--generally one "lit. analysis topic" per reading, sometimes two. However, what really strikes *me* about the LL series, is that the analysis is *very much geared* to using it in the student's compositions and writing exercises. Individual works are *not* heavily analyzed; one aspect (the lesson "topic" xxx) is analyzed fairly comprehensively--how did the author achieve xxxx; how can you achieve xxxx in your writing. I don't have the American/Brit. Lit courses--just the "topical" ones above. I think the Am. Lit course was their first, and it therefore has all the "learning curve" mistakes and missteps. Both the British Christian authors and World Lit courses have a lot of *very helpful* background information, suggested other readings, discussion questions and *projects grouped by category, ie., "art", "religion", "history", "hand's on", etc.*, all of which go beyond the merely reading scheduled books, answering the comprehension questions, reading the lit. lesson, and doing the required writing assignment. So, in summary, LL= learning about literary analysis primarily to appreciate the author's accomplishment and attempt it yourself. LL ~= (not equal to) deep thorough analysis of all literary aspects of each work read. (For those looking for more lit to accompany a World Geo course, the author of World Lit I has a one-year weekly schedule integrating both World Lit courses, missions reading, and BJU's World Geography text. Just wanted to pass that along). FWIW,

I've been homeschooling more than 18 years--my two oldest are now at university, and I found it to be *really* hard to combine older students with younger ones--one or the other gets shortchanged. That is why some people choose TOG (we don't for lots of reasons)--I just mention that because TOG is topic-based--the students often study similar/related topics but use *completely* different books that present differing levels of information. Older students need to be exposed to the deep thinking aspects of history, but younger ones still need just the "story" of history. It sounds to me like you are willing to read aloud from a "spine" text? I would personally NOT use Notgrass as a spine for the 3rd grader and possibly not for the 6th grader--depends on the maturity of the child. You can use it for "ordering" of topics, using other resources, but that seems like a lot of work to me. Notgrass is *designed* to be used independently. Is it possible for your 8th grader (assuming a mature learner here) to use it as such? That would free you up to read aloud from a better suited text for the elementary children--you have *lots* of choices there because there is so much great literature for elementaries covering American history. Or, if your third grader is a good reader, you could just have him/her read bunches from the Childhood of Famous Americans series and call that "history", freeing you to concentrate on the two oldest. I personally solved the problem of "wider age spans" by letting my older ones "loose" as they reached a certain maturity--they had their own course of study that may or may not have paralleled what their younger siblings were doing. These days I don't have any elementaries anymore, and all three still at home study similar things (for history, at least), but with different curricula. For example, next year, all three will be studying American History: the 11th grader will be using Notgrass, the young 9th grader will be using Sonlight 100 and Smarr American Lit, the young 7th grader will be using BJU's 8th grade American History text brought to life by all the Sonlight 100 readers. My reasoning: The oldest is ready to grapple with primary texts (not easy to slog through sometimes) but he is NOT a talker (Asperger's) so heavy-duty discussion is out; the middle one is at a true dialectical stage and working through a non-Christian text (with Christian commentary and discussion) should work well with him; the youngest is a true bibliovore and can devour a book a day if I let her, so Sonlight's abundance of fiction will suit her just fine, while BJU will provide "the facts" of history. Later, as a true high schooler, she will tackle American history one more time, on a deeper level. Only the middle one's program is Mom-intensive; the two others will be more independent in their history studies next year..... (This doesn't mean NO discussion; it just won't be the basis of their studies). Believe me, I know the struggles you are going through, trying to find the "right" curricula for your students for the coming year. Hope these thoughts help some. (Also, for hands-on, the best I've found is Hands and Hearts kits--a little pricey, but doable and fun for the kids).

You can read the complete TCOO at http://www.mainlesson.com and get a very good feel for it. It is possible that Guerber's American history books are also on the web--perhaps a search would turn them up, but Nothing New Press has a few representative samples. I would suggest you do that first, to get a feel for the flavor of the books. Also, if you are planning to read it aloud, see how well it flows for you when doing so. (I've discovered the hard way that some really good books just don't work well when read aloud). You can't really go wrong. They are both well-written narrative histories geared for upper elementary into junior high. We ended up with TCOO and have been happy with it. Since you are using it at as a supplement, I would go with the easiest book to work with.... HTH,

BJU's 7th grade World Studies text this year to finish off world history. This text picks up with a quick review of the Middle Ages, so it worked fairly seamlessly with MOH. We used the Activity Book for mapping work (at least one map/chapter) and at least one other suggested activity (either from the activity book or the teacher's guide). However, now that MOH 3 is out, take a good look at it! HTH,

is Benjamin West and His Cat Grimalkin by Marguerite Henry. It is one of my top 10 books for elementaries--an absolutely delightful look at early Americana from the point of view of Benjamin West's Quaker childhood and how he becomes America's First Artist. I know there are other books that cover Benjamin West, but this is the best--a true living book.

Like the others, I cannot compare *directly* to TT because I chose to go with MR after a thorough comparison of the two. However, I can tell you *why* I decided to go with Math Relief. First, my thoughts about TT: 1. I found the TT's textbook very engaging. I didn't mind the "wordiness" of the text and thought the authors brought in interesting historical/real world notes on the various topics. A definite plus. 2. TT's methodology is decidedly "incremental" ala Saxon. In short, this means that each lesson introduces a small bit of new information, has a few practice problems on the new bit of information, and includes a problem set consisting of problems mainly from previously studied topics. In other words, most of the problems in a given problem set *do not relate* to the topic of the lesson, but to previous topics. I, personally, do not like this approach. I used R&S for elementary math and thought it had a well executed mix of practice on new topic with just enough review of the old unlike Saxon which was too much review and not enough new. 3. The problems to be solved in TT problem sets are on the lighter side compared to *many* other standard algebra texts. This makes the problem sets more doable for many students. However, my children have always done well in math (even if not their favorite subject), and I didn't particularly desire "easier" problem sets. 4. The video instruction consists of a white board with writing and a voice over. It seemed to be decently done, but my personal preference is to have an actual person teaching. Now, for MR: 1. Mr. Firebaugh is an experienced Algebra teacher with *years* of teaching experience. This shows in the kinds of information he imparts while teaching the lessons. As one poster noted, he won't assume that the student knows algebra and begins at the very beginning, defining terms, etc. My very bright student was frustrated with understanding terms and their associated signs from a previous math program (eg. why is 1-7 the same as -7+1 when there is no + sign in the first equation) from a previous math program and Mr. Firebaugh's explanations on what a "term" consists of cleared up all his questions. 2. The lessons build on themselves and the exercise problems start out with what the student knows and builds in complexity--in one given set and over a few days. 3. There is no textbook (I would prefer one but only worksheets are included) but honestly, that has never been an issue for either of my two students who have used the program--the teaching on the videos has truly been sufficient. And if you did run into a problem, Mr. Firebaugh is pretty quick about responding to emails. 4. The approach is no-nonsense, so there is none of the engaging, chatty side bars of mathematical interest found in TT. On the other hand, the student *does* learn algebra and finds the study of the topic itself engaging. 5. The content is not *dumbed down* in any way, but the combination of the DVD instruction (Mr. Firebaugh is seen talking and writing on a white board) and progressively challenging problem sets have contributed to successful learning here at our house, for two very different students, and I have no qualms about whether or not they will be prepared for higher math and science--something I would be concerned about if I went with TT. 6. One last thing. The previous poster wondered if there was enough "content". I would say yes. Mr. Firebaugh's program is sold in 3 phases. The first two phases cover the "basics" of algebra. The last phase covers important topics for any student planning to take Alg. 2. For example, the students work quite a bit with deriving and using the quadratic formula which is often a topic covered in Alg. 2. HTH,

If you haven't read the entire Ralph Moody series (Little Britches is only the first, that would be a MUST, imo. Penrod is a fun book for boys starring a mischievous (but well-meaning) boy of 12. Shadow Hawk by Andre Norton was a favorite as well--it is also published by Bethlehem books. Ali and the Golden Eagle is a riveting story (published by Sonlight) that centers around an American businessman befriending an Arab boy who trains a golden eagle like others train falcons. Fascinating look at another culture. The Hobbit held the interest of my family for many weeks while we read it aloud. Kidnapped by RLS is a classic that we just recently read aloud and was enjoyed by all. And while we are on classics, The Adventures of Tom Sawyer is an another worthy read, just right for the ages of your children. (It is much more lighthearted than Huck Finn). Rolf and the Viking Bow ranks in my top 10 of historical fiction for kids--lots of twists and turns as well as discussion fodder on justice and law. How about some of James Herriot's stories since you mentioned being burnt out on historical fiction? They are an engaging look at life as an English vet meets up with many colorful characters. For comic relief, look into the humorous stories of outdoor life by Patrick McManus. He's written many titles over the years; I think the older ones are better than the newer ones. One possibility: They Shoot Canoes, Don't They? Have fun reading!

are based on the fact that we've been on the mission field now for 12+ years. Your friend still has *very* young children. In many foreign countries, 5 and even 6 is not considered "school age." I say that just to give a little perspective! :) My input on her choices: 1. Sonlight K--we *still* have most of our Sonlight K books (well, actually all of them from K-Core 100 which haven't fallen apart from use) and my youngest is 12 now! They are not kidding about "building a library." The ability to read-aloud and treasure books with such young children is not to be missed. It is, IMO, more critical than more formal seatwork and reading instruction. 2. For reading, SSRW is a complete program that would be an excellent choice because it *includes a good selection of phonics readers*, step-by-step teaching, fun phonics practice with the games and songs, and a reasonable workbook (good for practicing handwriting and oral spelling). And with SSRW you *can* use whatever handwriting style you want. (Did you know that way back when, SSRW *was* the phonics program of choice offered by Sonlight?) One thing your friend *didn't* mention was arts and crafts. If she is not going to have much available on the field, I would highly suggest some PreK-K craft books. Christian Liberty Press puts out two books (K and 1) that are very reasonably priced and Abeka's art books are good, too. With Abeka, I always went with one year behind (ie. K for a first grader) because my child was able to do more of it on her own. And at the very least, your friend needs a homemade playdough recipe! HTH,

I've not been in your situation, but I would *first* check out reading ability--both decoding and comprehension. A very easy to use resource fairly available in the homeschool world is: At Last! A Reading Method for Every Child by Mary Pecci. (You can google her name--she has a website and forum). Ms. Pecci has successfully used her method of teaching reading (a good one but you wouldn't *need* to use it) with *many* older, disadvantaged adults. In a nutshell, in one chapter of this book she gives directions for quickly assessing decoding (phonics knowledge) and separately, a quick test on comprehension. Often times with older learners, there are gaps in their knowledge base (ie. they know *some* phonics rules but not all). Ms. Pecci's quick and easy assessment will help pinpoint any holes. There may very well be other, equally good or better, reading assessments out there; I just happen to be familiar with this one. Best wishes for success to the both of you! Also, I concur with the suggestion to incorporate audio books and videos--a lot of information can be assimilated in a short time that way....

I personally think it is "standard"--not too difficult nor too easy. Re: grammar--if you have been fairly diligent in teaching grammar with a solid program (Abeka, R&S, CLE, or something similar), you will have no problem with BJU grammar. The truth is that *most* (not all) grammar knowledge is covered by 7/8th grade and the remaining years review, adding a bit more esoteric info and, most importantly, covering writing style in the high school years. The Literature program has always been favorably reviewed by Cathy Duffy and Mary Pride. Perhaps your friend was referring to the fact that BJU is best taught--the TMs are a must for more than an answer key. This may make it more "difficult" if you are expecting to just hand your student the text (literature) or workbook (English) and have them make their way through it. You will have to be involved at some level as the teacher. I personally suspect this must be the issue (time required of the parent) because of the suggestion regarding using ACE--a total student-driven workbook approach. Do as GVA suggested and take a good look at the materials through a homeschool store, motel meeting, or even over the web (that is what I do as I live overseas). HTH,

Winners: Jr. High: Jensen's Grammar CW Aesop/Homer: Older Beginner's Lightning Lit 7 (Whole book studies) BJU Literature 7 (Anthology w/ literary analysis) Math Relief Alg. 1 R&S Math 7 BJU World Studies (gr. 7) + Sonlight Readers/Read-Alouds Latin in the Christian Trivium Hewitt High School Syllabi (history)--good ideas for projects Apologia General and Physical Science OK: Wordly Wise Vocab--the kids like doing these booklets, but I often wonder if it is just brain candy for them. (I guess for junk food this is not too bad!) CW Older Beginner's, BJU Lit, and LitCT were the only new programs--I've already graduated two students--most of our curricula is now made up of the tried and true for our family. :-)

to leap from TT7 to an algebra program because the scope and sequence of TT7 is slower than *many* other publishers. (Disclaimer: I think TT is a valuable addition to the homeschool market just because it is "slower.") It *might* be possible to continue with TT's algebra program because it is also slower in its introduction of content (as well as depth). And I completely agree with others that you need to think through the purpose of the acceleration in math. If your daughter is a true math lover, I would bring in enrichment before I would accelerate even more. If she is not a math lover, why the rush? I speak from experience with my oldest--I had her in Algebra early because she *could* be, but the reality of the experience is that she took 2 1/2 years to complete algebra because while very bright, she wasn't mature enough yet to tackle it. I've not made that mistake again! You might find it helpful to look at the placement tests for Saxon, Math-U-See, and TT and see how she does with those.... Or look at a sample page from BJU math tests. (I mention these because they are all readily available online--there might be others). That would give you an objective measurement to see how your daughter is truly performing mathematically. HTH,

:iagree:

the Latin Primer series (Canon Press) is very straight forward, uncluttered, B&W. I used LP 1 and 2 with my daughter. Book 1 is *very* basic, mainly vocab. and "endings" learning, Book 2 is more of a true "learning Latin" text. I bought the Teacher's supplement (it is supposed to go along with a video component which we didn't use) because it had *quizzes* in there which were excellent reinforcement for the main text. I think there are samples on Canon Presses' website.... HTH,

An overarching methodology in PLL (and ILL for that matter) is broad exposure to *correct* English, both written and oral. There are no "find the mistakes in this sentence" or "which of these two answers is better" exercises. Rather, from the beginning, the child is exposed to (and helped to create) good sentences--complete sentences, rich sentences. It is an *English* text, not a grammar-text per se. A young child using PLL will be exposed to grammar topics, especially the basics that need to be mastered (beginning capitalization and punctuation rules). Your child will also work with word classes (ie. parts of speech) but they won't be identified as "nouns", "adjectives", etc. PLL was written in the era when correct use was encouraged in young children and analysis was left to later elementary years. The idea of teaching beginning students grammar terms and analysis is fairly new. I loved using PLL and ILL and easily followed up with a rigorous English text (R&S) *at the right time* and I think my children are better for it. HTH,

no time to answer fully right now. In short: the English and History feedback was very good, the math and science is just record-keeping (you give and grade all daily work, quizzes, and tests except for their own quarterly tests which are meant to provide objective feedback on such objective courses). Hewitt is very easy to work with (you can sub your own math program for their recommendations or even science, for example). You can enroll for feedback in just one or two subjects, or go for the whole program which can lead to a diploma. Also, their course requirements are outlined in the syllalbi they offer. I highly recommend that you buy a few of the syllabi for various courses as that will be 1. minimal outlay (they are *very* reasonably priced) and 2. a good opportunity to study in detail what each course would require of your dc. If you have any more specific questions, please let me know. Also, there is a Hewitt Yahoo group (can join from Hewitt's website) that is low-volume but a good place to ask questions of representatives from the company....(and others, but mainly from Hewitt staff). HTH,

Bumping because I'd like to know, too. My 14 year vastly prefers 3-D modeling to drawing....

There is a lot of new *terminology* in that chapter--perfect, imperfect, emphatic, etc. She knows the concepts if she has been speaking correctly all her life; she has just never had to really think about it. (She will, though, when she attempts to learn a foreign language). One thing I did with my children is I had them make a chart showing the term in one column, a definition (their wording) in another column, and a sample usage in a third column. We like charts here and I wouldn't hesitate to let her use her homemade chart in answering the oral and written exercises. I think language learning (English AND foreign languages) are the ultimate in "Building Thinking Skills" and well-worth the time and effort to master. HTH,

Bear with me; I majored in math. I've really enjoyed the insights you've shared here (I even PMed you earlier today--don't know how to do rep points). I can see the "Victorian Woman" consensus being well-known in the society of that day and thought knowledge of that would make a rereading of Jane Eyre quite interesting. But!! (not trying to be snarky) I don't get the symbolism you mention above--red=passion, veil=hymen, etc. Are you saying the Bronte had all that in mind when she wrote? Or perhaps only subconsciously? In this thread, it has been easy to see how each poster's "life perspective" has greatly influenced their "take" on the book, so is this symbolism really inherent in the work itself or something that *you* with your previous knowledge of wedding customs see (apart from anything the author intended). This is the part of lit analysis I just don't get--symbolism *unless* the author has explicitly stated said symbolism (perhaps not in the writing itself but by some other means.) However, since *you* seem to get symbolism, could you please explain to me how you make these connections and determine they are intended by the author? TIA for shedding some light on the mysteries of Lit. Analysis,

I think Jr. High is an ideal time to study American history. I personally would choose to do only 2 years of American History at that level--that is enough time to cover deeply areas of interest, but still cover the whole span without getting sick of it. I do think you would want to touch on American history at the senior high level and four years (the 3 you mentioned plus one more as a junior or senior) might be too much. However, you may have good reasons for your plans and I realize that. What to use totally depends on what approach you want to take. Literature-based? Look at Sonlight or Ambleside Online (the 4th-6th grade selections would definitely be challenging enough for grades 6-8) or even Veritas Press (again, most of the suggested books would work well for a 6-8th grader). Each of these programs offer different kinds of help. Sonlight is structured day by day. Ambleside Online week by week with active Yahoo groups. Veritas Press Guides that accompany their cards provide tests, projects, supplementary activities. Perhaps you want a Textbook approach that you can personalize? Get one at the reading level of your child and supplement with books, videos, field trips, and projects of your choosing. (This is more work for you than the other choices). Well, those are a few suggestions to get you started. You might get more suggestions if you share what approach you are thinking of taking with history and how big a subject you want it to be in your homeschool (eg. the centerpiece with art, science, geography centered around it vs. lets-cover-the-topics-and-move-on vs. something in between. HTH at least a little bit,