We did end up talking. Silence wasn't doing us good, anyway. It was a little confusing because there are statements he makes that make me think maybe he is starting to see reality a bit more. Then he'd say something kind of off the wall that brought *me* back to reality. On my side, I know that the gas lighting is getting to me, I'm forgetting that I am not dealing with a fully there person. Interesting: he did not have a realistic expectation of what separation would mean. he said he'd want us to still be working together (I couldn't do that, the work we do is really involved and not something we can do with minimal interaction), and talk about the kids and life a lot. I told him that was unrealistic, that he couldn't just call and talk with me about the kids and his day whenever it was convenient for him. I said it had nothing to do with love or being enemies, but he can't have a happy family life and me as a support system, while keeping an apt and checking out if the grass is greener on the other side. And he got really quiet after that. So idk if I've made progress, but at least he is starting to see consequences somewhat (other parts of the conversation show he sees consequences as unavoidable but very vague).

I instantly got the image of you walking around the house with one of those coin dispenser belts that people in casinos wear. This is definitely something I could do. The kids may not be any better at chores, but at least I'd look awesome.

Just me, the baby, and him tonight. eta: I missed a wonderful opportunity here to say "Him, me, and the baby makes 3". obviously need more chocolate.

Got back from my meeting with my priest. More spiritual comfort that I'm not alone than any practical idea of what to do. He said to ask my DH to come and talk with him and see if he is willing. He says that he understands if I need to either leave or have DH leave, if DH is not willing to work through this together. Today I am much angrier than before. For that reason alone I am avoiding any confrontation or discussion with him today on this topic, because I will definitely escalate, and that is not my decided-upon goal at this point. He'll be home soon. I am oscillating between acting as normal as possible (to avoid escalation and hopefully give him reminder about the good thing we had) or locking myself in the TV room and watching North and South again. I'm hungry though so option 1 may win out just so I have access to the kitchen :)

Hi everyone. Looks like I missed the excitement. :) I know you are all coming from a place of caring, I will not take offense to anything said. I'm sorry to those who have gone through something similar, if it is bringing up bad memories again, but I appreciate learning from your experience. I'm not quoting people, but a few thoughts that I want to address: - As obvious as it is to us that he is pushing me towards unhappy measures, that could end in divorce, I sincerely do not believe he understands this. It doesn't absolve him from responsibility, but I need to take it into consideration when I'm planning my own moves. If I want my end game won, I can't lose sight of the playing field. - I am certain, and don't want to explain the exact way I am certain, he is not currently in a sexual relationship with someone, and has not been in the past. - I am certain it was his first date with this person, and he has not met with anyone else. The infidelity in thought and texting has been there, but it is not more than I have stated. Cold comfort right now, but the truth, not wishful thinking on my part. - I know he will continue to escalate things to sexual relationship(s) unless things change, and unfortunately I can't create the change required. He'll need to come to it himself, and soon. - I called his mom and told her. I feel really really wretched doing this, it feels like a betrayal of trust. Maybe it makes it more real. But I know that it is necessary and we are past the whole betrayal thing (ha, to put it mildly), and my vows didn't explicitly state that I shalt not tell thy mother of thine mental illness. - Stephen Ministry was good. First time meeting them but it turns out I knew the people well already from my parish, so they were sympathetic, already know my kids, and generally know my husband. So it was good to talk to someone who has seen us in Mass every week for the past 8 years, and me longer, and has interacted with DH when he's stable. I think those were the main areas that needed clarity and updating. Oh, and thanks for the advice re: making sure there is room somewhere for him if he agrees to admit himself. Thank you all so so much for everything. I'm glad I reached out when and where I did, it is making all the difference in my confidence to handle this to best of my ability.

Well Stephen Ministry called and got me in, so I guess I'm going to go there now, and see if talking through this with someone gives me clarity on what and when.

Okay guys, I'm oscillating a lot over here. The kids are gone for a few hours so I have the opportunity to indulge myself in scenarios. I have re-called the lawyer to be moved up, left voicemail. Same with priest, but he's booked today, so called the Stephen Ministry and they said they'll see if they can get someone to talk to me today. I have to be calm again in 2.5 hours to give enough time for my nose to unredden and pick up kids, so trying to accomplish a lot in the meantime. Options as I see them: 1 - he can agree to stop dating, get more intense treatment, and stay in the house. 2 - he can voluntarily admit himself to a hospital 3 - involuntary admission, but only an option if there is physical threat, and at this point there is no hint of that. 4 - he can leave the house. 5 - I and kids can leave the house. When these things could happen: A - tonight, at 9pm (or later) when he comes home B - tomorrow night, kids would not be in the house C - Friday night, kids again not in the house D - at point of crisis, i.e. unplanned. E - later. F - crazy right now, I drive up and just confront him. probably not the most reasonable option, ha. I think with all of these options, I will have to inform his family of the diagnosis and his current behavior either today or tomorrow; basically, I need to tell them before this explodes. Still unsure about how to handle my own family.

Hi Catwoman, thank you, you are giving voice to a growing percentage of me. The internal line I had was his sleeping with someone else. Frankly before yesterday the thought of him *dating* hadn't really crystallized because I was under the impression he was considering, um, faster end game options, not developing a relationship. So he hasn't technically crossed. But the more I look at the situation I'm wondering if in actuality my line is this instead. He's not home until 9pm tonight (legit) or later (not legit). So, like I said in the earlier post, I want to slow the train, and delay to Friday (meeting priest on Wednesday, he has psychologist appt on Thursday, I think I have the lawyer on Friday). But I also have until 9pm to change my mind and speed things up. I do have suitcases packed for me and the kids. But I am considering packing one for him instead, it seems more appropriate, though he will take it as an aggressive move. But maybe that is the best option now. Yes, I am sure about the mental illness. But, I'm no longer sure about being able to help him through this episode as I have been (i.e. in the same house). And yes to documentation.

I boil the chicken, then shred once cool enough to handle.

Yes, but have not gotten any actual advice yet (part of the reason I'm trying to delay to Friday).

Well, not much to update except gory details. This feels very self indulgent, but here I am typing anyway, lol. The TL;DR is he's actively working to push this to crisis and idk how to respond, or when. He came home after 10pm last night, after saying he had to go into town in the morning for the library. I did call him midday and confront him over it when he started evading basic questions. Basically he said all the same stuff, with an extra dose of feeling trapped and if he didn't go through with his date then he would feel "a profound sense of loss and I don't know *what* I'd do", and there is nothing wrong with how he is, it is just who he is. I kind of lost my cool and told him every action has an equal and opposite reaction. He did admit he isn't thinking about consequences, so long as he gets to "live." He's trying now to engage me on text, but I'm basically just sitting here. I don't know if I should try to normalize relations to deescalate or not. He might get the impression all is well, and it most certainly is not. On the other hand, I want to get through the week before I start shaking Pandora's box. Also, I'm not used to taking action when my emotions are high, I tend to wait until I cool off so I don't act on passion alone. The schedule this week happens to end with him not around kids at all until Friday so I think I'm going to take the time to continue plans and regain my level, unless he forces my hand early. Technically he hasn't crossed my internal line yet (but like, he is doing pirouettes on it) and my aim is still to slow this train, not add fuel to the fire. I cannot compute that my life has changed so much in so little time. He was so excited for the baby, delighted, he literally said life was good. Now he's saying he's never enjoyed family life and wasn't meant to be married. It's just surreal. I don't think I've fully caught up to what's going on. Thanks for indulging me. I'll keep future updates to things that materially change the situation.

Mother of huge babies myself :) This is the first time I've gotten the gear I wanted. Totally worth it. Love my carseat this time and go out more because of it. Agree with the portability factor, especially if you use it with a stroller or one of those converty things. I do recommend going to a store and trying to lift the carseat alone though before deciding -- esp with big babies, these things can get heavy and some feel like they hid a ton of bricks somewhere in the mold. (eta: this wasn't something I'd ever thought about before with past kids, because price and gifts were the main factors) Get the gear you want, I vote.

Thank you, I need it. It's getting worse. If there wasn't mental illness involved, and he was just like this, I'd know what to do. But right now I have to take into consideration that this isn't really him and escalation on my part is mostly counterproductive. There's a line, though, and he seems determined to cross it. Hopefully not before I get my safety nets completed. Hopefully never, actually, but hope is thin on the ground right now.

:grouphug:

Yes, it's been difficult. FWIW, I've started to see a decline in my parents, and I think this is where most of this eta some of the more controlling attitude is coming from, especially with my mom (who is in the driver's seat when I say "my parents"). They weren't always like this, and aren't even always like this; but, it is relevant to my current decisions which is why I brought it up. eta: my sisters agree with my assessment of mom, and have taken the approach of telling as little negative as possible about their lives. They live in a different state though, so can get away with more than I can 15 minutes away.

I think they threatened me with it before just to try and intimidate me into compliance. They know there is no real reason for taking kids, but want to express the magnitude of displeasure. In the case of a separation and then reconciling, they would probably say that he is mentally unstable and so a danger to the kids. They may know they don't have a chance of being able to actually do it, but they would definitely cause as much trouble as possible to try and stop a reconciliation.

Thank you, this gives me a good idea for approaching my kids on this. I don't want them to confuse their dad with the illness. Thank you for sharing how you dealt and planned for a similar experience. I'll have to think about who I can trust that I can confide in and still see him as a person and not a ... well, who can distinguish the illness from him. Right now I hope that the parish priest will be one of those, and maybe he can introduce me to someone else as well. I hadn't realized how isolated we are. Documentation has begun, thank you for the idea of recording. I actually have recording devices for my work, so this is easy to accomplish. Sad I have to use it with him though. :( Thank you, I think there are a couple things going on but yes, the hyper sexuality is definitely tied to his state. You know, I don't see myself as a bad wife when I think about it. I know this is not me, not me at all. I think what is keeping me from reaching out is that I know how some people (my parents, to be frank) will react, and the domino effect it starts will not be able to be stopped. If we separate, my parents will support me. BUT they will not support me getting back together with him regardless of medication, treatment, anything like that. They do not see mental illness as "a good excuse", they see it as weakness of character. My mom's first marriage ended because of infidelity and she is militant on this issue. They have already threatened to take the kids from me over my decision to home school. If I tried to fix my marriage after a separation has occurred, I really think they would try to take the kids away from me. So, I'm hiding because I do not see how telling them or involving them does anything but make the situation worse. And they would try to poison the kids against him, as they can already barely keep their contempt for him concealed (dislike of him is based on his being a composer and not holding "a real job" even though he makes more than enough to support us; they also believe he is forcing me to home school the kids even though I am the driving force behind it). Short of moving away afterwards, I don't know how else to handle them. As another aside, I do think the spending thing has started. He just called me that he's getting a gym membership. :\ eta: Wow, I just saw my wall of text. Sorry to anyone who actually reads all of it. I'll start to work on brevity.

Ok, I'm going on a reply-binge as it were. Thank you all for your concern, support, advice, ideas. I have read each post multiple times. Sorry for the length of this in advance, and I am already trying to shorten it. Lookd for the number, idk where he's going though and he got irritated when I asked directly. He just left for the appt, so opportunity is missed this time. I know who he is meeting with next week though (psychologist) so I will reach out to them. Maize, thank you for this and all the links and information. He is obsessive about his brain function (ironic?) and refuses meds because he does not want to mess with his brain chemistry and potentially lose something. Showing him, when he's more stable, that it is directly and physically changing his brain is probably the best bet to changing his mind on this subject. On the sleep, I read one of the abstracts and it mentioned that stabilizing sleep patterns when someone is in his state can help, so I'm double downing on that course of action. Yes, and she is perfect, btw. At least I'm getting a lot of oxytocin from hugging her all the time. I do think a new baby is part of what triggered him into this episode. He did bond with her much better, earlier, and he had less anxiety during the pregnancy and first week of baby than the past couple of kids. But, I think the anxiety of another baby, more obligation (including financially), and the lack of sleep that happens with a newborn pushed over an already creeping episode. See, I'm having trouble pinning down what stage he is in, he sleeps well ONCE he is sleeping. And gets extremely irritated right before bed because "no one is letting him go to sleep." I'm hoping the melatonin will calm him down. I saw the other suggestions as well, thank you. I'm going to try melatonin first since he is most open to what he knows. Thank you for this perspective. It makes entire sense. I think I engage in conversation mostly to just keep him open and talking. A huge "thing" with him is whether or not he feels listened to. Normally, I can calm him down and help him see things rationally by just doing active listening and asking only a few questions to help him see another side of stuff. So, that is why I've been allowing myself to engage as much as I have. But, I do agree that it is an waste of energy, and I do think the efficacy of this approach is either wearing off or just not enough. Being reminded that he has a diagnosis does not go over well, he sees it as an attack/dismissal/betrayal of his emotions. IDK. Adding credence to his delusions isn't the answer, and maybe I'm coming across that way. Thank you, I will change my approach. Thank you. I'll have to tell his mom, I think, if it goes further. If he leaves or I ask him to leave, he will probably go to her first to get a place to stay -- understandable. But, she is a huge huge enabler and we've been over 3 years of her enabling his brother with a drug/alchohal addiction, which my husband was always telling her she was doing more harm than good. She only stopped (well, mostly stopped) after multiple police calls and some other unsavory incidents. I really hope that she will not do the same thing again. Thank you, yes, I do need to know where my line in the sand and plan for if it is crossed. And have legal knowledge for if it continues to escalate. I guess I've had my head in the sand; past episodes did not escalate as quickly and really topped off at this point, so this is new territory that I am trying to travel with old shoes. I need to update my skill set and knowledge. Right now, I know he is still trying to set up dates and texting new people. I know it hasn't gone further than that but he is actively planning to get it there. Once he's contacted someone and they start to respond positively, he really doesn't have an off button; it's on the other person to pull back. In the past they always have because I think the craziness of his state is hard to hide for long; usually once they cut off contact he goes through "what am I doing?" depressiveness and is able to see better, stop and not contact anyone else, then go into recovery mode. I just realized how wrong it is that this has happened enough for there to be a pattern that I can articulate in written words. Anyway, I guess my line in the sand is physical contact, even though I have trouble looking at him/ touching him when I know the above is going on. But the line for separation, I guess, would be physical contact. I'll start to look for a lawyer that can explain what this would mean for me, practically.

So, OP here. I've decided to continue the conversation with my "real name" for a bunch of reasons. One of the reasons is that, when I originally made the post, I thought I was going to do a vent, get support, then just let it go. But, I don't really feel able to let go yet, and I've already dropped enough hints for the sleuths to put together, and it is tiring trying to wash the personal details out. Still doubtful I want this associated with "me" though, especially in 6 most when this is past (hopefully) and I want to ask about more benign marriage advice, I don't want the first reaction to be "well he's crazy!", lol. Re: my own mental health. I've called my parish, the priest will get back to me next week (he's out of town right now). I spoke to a helpline counselor today, which gave me some clarity but also raised my stress level because after I told them the entire story they seemed a whole lot more doubtful of a happy resolution to this than I was. Not that it would just take time and work, but whether or not it is even possible. So, I guess a stronger dose of reality than I was already on? I've always been an optimist, maybe I am too biased, but I don't think he's so far gone as to be written off. In the situation itself: DH sat me down for a "logical" discussion of our choices. Positive-Minus-Interesting lists on each one. The choices were open marriage or separation. It didn't go well. I convinced him to do a PMI for stay-with-more-treatment, which he did grudgingly, and also grudgingly admitted that it did have less negatives than the other 2 choices. But, he's still stuck on the open marriage option and trying to convince me of it. He has bouts of "this is crazy", "I'm sorry I'm putting you through this", "I wish I didn't feel this way, if it could go away I would be relieved, but its never going to", "this is just a phase", "I just need some work", interspersed with "this is who I am", "I'm not ill", "this isn't going to go away", "why is it wrong anyway?", "don't judge me", "I don't need to be fixed, I need to be myself." So, he isn't consistent, very conflicted, and still feeling betrayed by everyone else's view of reality. And in denial there is anything wrong with him. He sees nothing at all wrong with his actions, and does not remember/acknowledge being stable/different. The good news is that he is still communicating with me and trying to convince me to go along with the crazy, not just running off crazy on his own. Baby steps and looking for advice: 1.Medication is a definite no-go topic right now. I did get him to agree to at least taking a natural something to help him sleep, trying to at least stabilize some part of his routine. Melatonin is what he thought of. I looked it up and a couple websites noted it may be a depressive for some. Any experience with this? Or, suggestions on some other supplements that could help? He does drink chamomile tea sporadically but I don't know if it actually does anything for him. 2. Kids. Got to say something to at least the 8yo if this continues as is. And even if he stays and the episode ends and he comes to himself, we need to say something to prepare for the next time.Whatever I say at this point, though, he won't like. so how do I approach this without tipping him farther towards crazy and seeing me as an enemy? He is seeing a naturopath (?) tomorrow, it was scheduled a few weeks ago. I don't know how truthful he'll be about his state. He also just closed 2 big jobs, and once he focuses on the work he usually regains some objectivity on other areas of life. He'll begin the work in a couple of weeks though, so that half hope is a while off. Thank you for your help thus far, and support. It means more than I can say.

We have a No Solicitors sign on the door, and over the doorbell I have taped a piece of paper that says "Do Not Ring Doorbell". They would have to push through the paper to ring the bell. No one has pushed it yet, I think it's been up 6 years.

I hate dates. BUT, I recently tried a date-and-pecan-sandwhich and it was great. Take a pecan, put a date on it, put a pecan on top. Eat. It's like a pecan pie. It works with medjool (sp?) date at least.

Thank you! I did not know this was a thing. The website does not inspire me to trust and greatness, but good to know it's there. Okay, so this is the general idea of it. My DH is a composer, and he's been gradually doing more and more of this type of work helping other songwriters and composers with their music. A lot of it is reworking what they have, finishing something they started, and generally just getting them to the stage they can show their work to others. The problem is, we don't know what to call this. He does NOT like the word coach and has a negative association with it. Consultant feels more corporate than someone you get on a one-on-one basis, which is how most of these artists work. We also don't know if "creative coach" actually describes it or if it would be confusing (seems like a 50% split here). I guess since there is such a thing as the Creativity Coach Assoc. though, this is what he would be called. Unless someone has another idea or has run into this before and knows the title?

"Creative Coach" What does this person do? What is the first thing that comes to mind? Who would hire this person's services? Trying to see how ambiguous this is.

Thank you for the notice.

Well, this morning I came out of my room and walked by the kid's bathroom. [For background, we got a new shower head in their bathroom a couple weeks ago, partially to combat the fear, though it hasn't had any affect.] My daughter was there combing her hair. Her wet hair. "Your hair is wet." "Yep." "Did you take a shower?" "Yep." "Um...ok...how did it go?" "Good." "Was...was the water the right temperature?" "Yep." "...So it went well?" "Yeah. And my hair doesn't even have any knots. I think the new shower head is better for my hair. It's like a luxury shower head, isn't it Mom?" "Yeah, it's a nice shower head...Ok...Well...just let me know if you need help doing your hair." "Yep." So, there you go! Looks like we are over this bout of fear. It'll come up again, I'm sure, so I'll keep all your ideas in mind and start research to prepare for next time. Thanks for the help! :)