Gosh, I'm such a newbie - but I've got an ADHD + SPD kiddo, ruled out ASD (or so I thought)...would you mind explaining why ADHD + SPD is an ASD diagnosis waiting to happen??? I think they're all related, personally...but very curious...

Thank so much for y'alls insights! .I am concerned about compliance with VT type work and the ability to cooperate with potential VT therapy. I've been making phone calls, finding out costs and options and such for both... For the sensory integration therapy prairiewind - how do you think the therapy helped get your dc 'organized'? I know my DS has sensory issues - he seeks input, constantly taps, bounces against an exercise ball, likes "squeezy hugs", seems to need touch, would like to just wear underwear only - but will definitely not wear restrictive clothing or socks with shoes, can get overwhelmed with noisy/bright/crowded places or situations, etc. So I've learned about things to help him, but idk - the integration / therapy / organization seems kind of woo-ey to me? As in, I wonder if the time with a therapist will help him overcome issues (treat) or just give him/us tools to help him deal with the issues (i.e. the processing problem is always there). Hope my questions here make sense - I am not opposed, just wondering.

Hi All. I have long mostly lurked on this board and benefited greatly from y'alls threads. I have the results of my DS 8's neuropsych exam and think I am ready to get perspectives on next steps. Any thoughts/advice you have would be greatly appreciated. I've been thinking about how to be most clear in this post/with my questions. I am surprised by how emotional I've been since DS's exam/getting the results, so I hope I've managed OK here. Ok - IQ test showed big gap between verbal and auditory (strong) and visual-spatial (very weak). Full IQ was average. Working memory - average, Processing Speed - impaired (75, 5%). [VCI - 108/70%; PRI - 84 - 14%] Report noted how much DS's lack of attention and hyperactivity interfered throughout. I was in the waiting room and can say that on a lot of tasks he was having trouble just focusing, following instructions, completing, etc. He did try! He was especially inattentive on the visual tasks/tests - so I don't know how much of that gap is due to that or a real difference/problem. He was in the 90% range for memory/learning tests - but again, big gap between auditory and verbal (superior) vs visual (low average to impaired). So here's the alphabet soup of diagnoses for DS (from this exam and previous evaluation/treatment): ADHD - combined type, Sensory Processing Disorder, Specific Learning Disability - Reading (is this the same as saying "dyslexia" ?! - I am not sure!), Rule-Out ODD (I can't comment out this without spitting nails!) Recommendations from Neuropsych: Reading intervention, Auditory Processing Evaluation, Vision therapy evaluation, SPD treatment, ADHD - related behavioral stuff, Executive Function work. If anyone wants more info on exact tests/results that might have comments or insights, I'm happy to give them, just didn't want this post to get too long! Probably failed there... So where would you start? DS is homeschooled, has been since 6 (after a try at Kinder). He is very resistant to learning to read, and wouldn't complete the full reading evaluation in the exam. We have been using Logic of English Foundations - he is struggling through level B right now. I was not surprised by the reading disability dx. Sigh. No meds for ADHD - tried them and they did.not.help (did stimulant and non-stimulant trials). Known about ADHD/SPD for a long time, but never done formal therapy for SPD. In particular - OT for SPD and Vision Therapy would be out-of-pocket and expensive. If you had to choose - which would you start with? I've been reading the many threads on neuropsych evals and results - thanks in advance for contributing to another one!!!

So every time I see this title I think about what my big sis told me when I was trying (trying...trying..) to potty train my DS - she said, "Just don't duct tape him to the toilet!" I was like, whaaat?! She was a social worker...yep...you guessed it....she had to have a talk and report and require parenting classes for a young mom who had duct taped her dc to a toilet to try to potty train....Her point was not actually to make fun of the young woman, but rather that it can get so frustrating and we can be so focused on the results that for one weird bad moment something like that might seem like a good idea...but it's not...so don't do it... Ok- way more to the point...my ds loves lots of compression-type activities, so now I have a whole new category (tape!) to investigate. So thanks for sharing.

Wow - tape! This thread is inspiring. OhElizabeth thanks for the link to the video. I didn't quite understand. DS is big time sensory seeking - he bounces against a big exercise ball (and on it and over it) and has things to tap and fiddle with. But I have never really explored other possibilities to help him get stimulation. He doesn't like clothes, period. (We call him "Captain Underpants") So I've not tried the vest/tight shirt thing. But I wonder if that would be different....

Thanks, y'all. I will try to find the right balance between relaxed and prepared. LOL. DS is actually anxiety prone. My biggest fear, I guess, is a meltdown and/or refusal if he starts thinking he's getting stuff "wrong". I have broken it up into two days - but now I'm wondering if I'll manage to get him there for the second day. But I am going to think positive and plan for some treats attached to it. He does love games and play acting and stuff, so if it is as kid friendly as they tried to reassure me it would be, it could go just fine. DH is planning on taking off the first day - which will be a treat for DS in itself. DH is also often better, tbh, at staying calm and making difficult things easier/more fun than I am! DS is old enough, and we have had some talks about his struggle to learn to read, so I am also going to do some thinking about what might be helpful to share with him about the testing. I am thinking about making another call, though, and finding out what tests they plan to do - DS has had a diagnosis for ADHD and been thoroughly evaluated for autism (no), so while it might be interesting to get another take, I also don't want to "waste" the time on stuff we know? IDK. Thanks again for the encouragement and support!

Hi Anna's Mom - Longtime lurker here - just wanted to offer hugs and say I hope you and your dd are recovering from the long day of nueropsych testing. I am taking my ds 8 - also with adhd, perfectionism, anxiety stuff, in for testing next month. It was helpful to read about your experience and I appreciate your being willing to share it.

I now see that my same questions, just about, were posted by Anna's Mom on the Nervous...thread. Reading it gave me a lot of respect for y'all and the support offered by people here!

Mostly a lurker here... DS 8 is ADHD, has sensory issues and...stuff. Really struggling to learn to read/write. We are taking a break from it for now. Good insurance, thank goodness - so we have a neuropsychologist evaluation scheduled for next month. Breaking it into two half day sessions. Crossing my fingers that DS can make it through and cooperate. Hoping to learn stuff, but not sure what to expect. What should I expect of the exam process and/or the results? Any questions I should ask? I feel a bit blind on this, though I've read some threads on here and done some online searches. TIA for any thoughts/advice!

Just wanted to come back to this thread to say thanks - we've been having fun with books on the lists y'all have generated all year! (And kept my county's interlibrary loan busy..) Lots of the trickster tales have been really fun - like Precious and the Boo Hag, Flossie and the Fox. My boy loves reading about kids getting the upper hand in life! So many of the suggestions here have been so good - we have read intentionally about racial/ethnic equality and struggles (well, lightly - for a 7 yo) [inter-racial family here] - but I really wanted a wealth of books with non-white/non-American characters just going about life - like 'mainstream' characters get to do. Thanks everyone for taking the time to contribute to this list. I've made my own master copy to pass on to others when the time comes!

Wow - this thread is so helpful! Thanks to all who took the time to share!!!

Hi Chris - I meant books I'd read-aloud to DS. Thanks for checking! The complex language in stories in picture books is something I really like - it means we can still be cuddling up reading beautiful books on the couch, even though we've started to add chapter books. DS is not "picking up" reading easily - so the books we go with for him to practice are mostly phonics based readers or simple stories with lots of words he knows. Keeping reading interesting and fun though is high on my priority list. And I can't help having a stealth agenda at the same time...hence this list! Yet more good suggestions y'all - thanks! Farrar - I really appreciate the authors list - I thought of the diverse books/diverse authors point, but just wanted stuff to choose from, so didn't want to restrict. Little did I know this board would produce so many great book suggestions! Another thing about pursuing author/illustrators is that consistency seems to go over well with DS, so we tend to find a good author/illustrator and read several of their books, until we've had our fill.

Wow - now I have several years' worth of reading, a new app and a brand new Amazon wish list! Many thanks y'all!!! Tanaqui - hope your sis loves your list, too! Now I'm off to my library website to place some holds!

Suggestions of titles and/or authors? I'm not looking for books about diversity/tolerance/justice issues. Rather, just for books that have non-white main characters. Something along the lines of Jack Ezra Keats' books. Picture books preferred - longer/more complex is good. These will be read-alouds for DS 7 - a very beginning reader. Any chapter book suggestions would be appreciated too. I'd file them away for the future. I've found some that meet this requirement - but most of these are set in other countries, not in the US, and are really 'about' other countries/cultures/myths/etc.

Thanks for the link. Got the 3000 piece map puzzle on my wall...lost a couple months' of evenings to it...enjoy!

Hi Jennifer132 - kudos to you for getting help for you and your little one. I am not anti-medication - so if that is the route you go, nothing but support and hugs from me. But - what you said about anxiety, and flare-ups after mistakes just waved a flag for me. I have a DS 7 with ADHD and...issues...and hitting himself in the head is fairly regular in my house. Just wanted to advocate that you pursue evals for your DD. And maybe consider your own expectations, especially with regards to schoolwork. My DS' frustration tolerance is low - and that includes making mistakes / having errors pointed out. He is a strange kind of perfectionist, wants to get everything right the first time.... Telling him to go to his room is, to him, a sign that he's failed.... to stay in control, etc. A really difficult thing for him/me. Under-react. Your dd hitting herself in the head is not time for you to panic. You stay calm. Her overreaction is likely to just as quickly dissipate if you do not feed it. Focus on what is causing her frustration - not the behavior she is exhibiting (at least not in the moment). Don't treat it as a discipline problem. Treat it as a puzzle for you (and your dh/family) to solve, together. Involve her in this/discuss as much as (age appropriate) possible. What can you/she do to not have these outbursts? If it's pointing out errors - can you not point them out? Seriously. Can she self-check? Can you point them out after she's done the work - like days later, when it's a discussion that's not real-time with her effort at doing the work? Think outside the box on this. Her emotional well being / your household is far more important than correcting mistakes on a worksheet. In other words, you need to do one of several things about her outbursts: 1. think differently about them = accept them, redirect them, help you/her to avoid them 2. solve the underlying frustration I hth. I have a challenging child. Learning is so much less important than him growing up to handle himself and get along with others. Think about your end goals with your dd, and how to meet them. She will learn the 3R's and science/history - but what is far more important is whether you have a solid relationship and she is able to self direct/self-motivate in the end.

What a great moment citrusheights5!!! I like the idea of it being due to the bump on the head....but that's my sarcastic/dry sense of humor...and my recurring fantasy of reaching inside my DS' little brain to massage it into shape...you know, just a little tweaking... But seriously, likely due to both of your efforts, and a great accomplishment. Way to go!

Hi - Wanted to introduce myself. Been lurking on this site for a while, benefiting from y'all's wisdom, so I thought, now that I've registered I should introduce myself. Someday I'll figure out the avatar thing...promise. HS'ing DS 7. Started last fall. I consider DS 1st grade. DS is an ADHD'er so, we are looking to play and learn while bouncing and running! His 'special' ness definitely saved him from school! I'm beginning to see that it has unexpected benefits for me as well. I work part-time, DH full. We live in the (usually) hot desert southwest. Look forward to "meeting" y'all.

Aw your post OhElizabeth and y'alls replies have helped me this week! Thanks for sharing! DS has just started wanting to do stuff that makes me think - wow, he'd be great for Kinder now (he's 7 - and sure kinder would be below him on some stuff, but dead on for other things - writing/drawing/interested in doing that for longer than 5 seconds). And then I think - how cool we get to do this together now! Now I have days...so this thread is awesome for t-h-o-s-e days. Lots of hugs on steeling yourself to questions while you get out a standard answer that satisfies all!

The "same" affect? Maybe the (neurological? behavioral?) response is not exactly the same ...but neurotypicals also see increased focus/attention, decreased emotional response/hyperactivity on "ADHD" stimulant medications. Brain science is coming along...lots of evidence from brain imaging/studies showing those labeled ADHD have neurological differences...yes. I guess I am mostly against the idea that a response to ADHD meds is a good "test" of the diagnosis. Even neurotypicals would do better on tests of attention/focus on stimulant meds. There's been tests of this too....plus hard to sort out the peer reviewed science - categorization of ADHD needed to even do the studies, after all. Yes, ritalin is certainly a 'well-studied' med. But scientists are still arguing about long term studies' take away message about benefits of medication, though... All of the above is no argument against OP's seeking treatment, including medication, if that seems the best option/worth a try for her dd.

Lots of interesting comments in this thread! Mom to ADHD DS 7. It's a disorder if it's a problem for the person. Whether it's a problem depends mostly on the environment. That sounds really vague. But parents/family/schools/other groups vary widely in expectations and willingness to allow for differences in kids and their behavior/needs. I have two family members I visit. We have a great time with one - she rolls with it, easily allows us to say no go to a typically problematic activity, thoroughly enjoys DS and his enthusiasm, energy and curiosity. Does not overreact if DS overreacts (positively or negatively). I have another...it's stressful with her for me/DS. It's a good thing DS is not theirs. One of the most important things that we do (at this young age) is manage the environment and expectations for DS so that it is not (so much) of a problem for him, or for us/others. I hope this gives us the time and space to allow DS 7 to grow, mature, and learn to handle the situations that challenge him - including focus/attention/frustration tolerance/impulse control/emotional regulation, etc. The A#1 way we do this is to homeschool. No way could he go to school and not get the message that he is defective/deficient/lacking/wrong. And that message is so so negative. Talk about lasting impacts. Drs./experts/teachers....rolling eyes if they think school would be better. Whatever - they clearly have no clue on this. :lol: We don't medicate now, but we tried several kinds (stimulants and a non-stimulant). The benefits were not worth the side effects for us/DS. The side effects can be bad. And only you/your family/dc can decide if it is working/worth it. No expert, friend, etc. can do that for y'all. So frustrating..hugs. Sometimes I would give anything to have someone give me instructions I could just trust and follow. :crying: We might revisit meds again when DS is older. Until then - we do school in a way that (most days!) plays to his strengths. Do you have an exercise ball? We have two - shorter for sitting/bouncing on. Bigger for going all out! Very short focused "lessons". Changed expectations. Lots of play, outdoor time, exercise, breaks. Lots of big movement activities - acting out/experiments/etc. for science/history. Math is almost all oral. DS does not yet write. Reading is coming, slow and steady. In my mind, he is the perfect candidate for delayed schooling/interest-led schooling. So for the next 2 - 3 years we'll move him forward with reading/math and stay with fun and interesting with most else. I know down the line....cross that bridge when we get there is my current mantra. Some pet peeves of mine - yes ADHD exists and is not just b/c these kids are asked to sit too much. LOL. I've got video of DS at 12 months...revealing...come to think of it, I've got video of him at 3 months that is interesting too. He was born moving! Shoot, the sonogram tech commented on his movement while trying to get a pic/measurements/tell us if he was a boy/girl when he was 20 weeks in utero!!! Little did we know... That said, sigh, I really do think as others suggested that we have environmental triggers here - as likely with autism/allergies/cancers/the list goes on. But how is suspecting that supposed to help me help DS? I don't know that it does. Diet stuff was not a miracle cure for DS, though it does make a difference. Exercise makes a difference. So does paying attention to sensory stuff. Finally, imho ADHD is probably a poorly fitting label for a group of (related) observed behaviors that have multiple causes. In other words, its useful as a device to organize our ideas/test treatments, etc. The book, "ADHD Does Not Exist" is on to something, at least. But I wasn't totally satisfied - I don't think the author's list of other causes exhausts what we see with kids we think are *true* ADD/ADHD. But it was a good, thought-provoking read. And yet at the end of the day, all we have to do is get DS to adulthood - intact and competent to make his way in the world. We work for and hope for more...but that is the bottom line. Stimulants help everyone focus/pay more attention. The idea that they are *calming* for those with ADHD, but would do something else to those without it is just a myth. Try them and see for yourself. There's a reason they are abused by those with who want extra help to stay awake/pay attention/cram for tests/etc. Not excusing such (poor!) decisions...just saying. But yes, for ADHD people the difference could be more than a few extra points on the test, it could mean being able to pass it at all. I totally hear you about being fed up with people who think ADHD is (solely) caused by schools or intolerant societies. Gotta love 'em, but some people find a great thing (i.e. homeschooling) and think it is the cure for all and everything! :laugh: Don't let those people inside your head when you and yours are deciding on the best (for now, anyways) course of action for your dc. Y'all are a great group to be in conversation with about this! Now to googling articles mentioned here...

Y'alls are way more fun (The Pill and all that...) Eating raw cookie dough will give you spiders in your tummy...I could totally picture them and I stopped stealing bites! Apparently a common story in my family, but I don't know if it qualifies as an old wives' tale. Yeah, I sat annoyed on the poolside waiting for lunch to digest....seriously, people.

My DS was 6.75 - (he's only 7 now - we are excited about this development!). He needed a focused, intensive phonics reading program. But hearing him sound out "n--u---t; n-u-t; NUT!" is music to my ears! I am one proud mama. We keep "reading practice" short, sweet, and slow and steady here!

So when my DS was 4 he and DH went to our local, small grocery store. DH came home with DS looking totally shell shocked. He told me what happened. DS, as usual, got one of the little kids' shopping carts that the store provides. This time DS tried to put a gallon of milk in it. Too heavy for him, so he set it down hard...it busted and started leaking. DH headed to DS to try to take it from him and DS (probably worried he did the wrong thing!) took off running...with the cart of leaking milk. So there's DH trying to catch up to him and now hollering at him to stop and there's DS running for his life with his trail of milk. DH said it took a store employee to help corner DS and by then every last aisle had been hit (it's not a big supermarket). Not "clean up on aisle 4" but "clean up whole store." By the time DH corralled DS and got him thru the checkout line he said there was like a half dozen employees mopping. Before poor DH got halfway through the story I was laughing so hard I was crying. Finally, DH relaxed and started laughing too. I was so like, "Man, better you than me, buddy." This experience is our go-to comparison for "challenging" times while out and about. :)

Haven't tried bacopa with my DS. PM me if you want the full articles below. The "CHP" [bacopa extract is a main ingredient] referred to in the first article is now being sold by an Israeli company under the name "Nurture and Clarity". Double blind clinical trial on preparation with bacopa: Journal of Attention Disorders 14(3) 281– 291 © 2010 SAGE Publications DOI: 10.1177/1087054709356388 A Compound Herbal Preparation (CHP) in the Treatment of Children With ADHD: A Randomized Controlled Trial M. Katz,1 A. Adar Levine,2 H. Kol-Degani,2 and L. Kav-Venaki2 Abstract Objective: Evaluation of the efficacy of a patented, compound herbal preparation (CHP) in improving attention, cognition, and impulse control in children with ADHD. Method: Design: A randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial. Setting: University-affiliated tertiary medical center. Participants: 120 children newly diagnosed with ADHD, meeting DSM-IV criteria. Intervention: Random assignment to the herbal treatment group (n = 80) or control group (placebo; n = 40); 73 patients in the treatment group (91%) and 19 in the control group (48%) completed the 4-month trial. Outcome measure: Test of Variables of Attention (TOVA) administered before and after the treatment period; overall score and 4 subscales. Results: The treatment group showed substantial, statistically significant improvement in the 4 subscales and overall TOVA scores, compared with no improvement in the control group, which persisted in an intention-to-treat analysis. Conclusions: The well-tolerated CHP demonstrated improved attention, cognition, and impulse control in the intervention group, indicating promise for ADHD treatment in children. Open label trial on Bacopa: Adv Mind Body Med. 2014;28(2):10-15.) An Open-label Study to Elucidate the Effects of Standardized Bacopa monnieri Extract in the Management of Symptoms of Attention-deficit Hyperactivity Disorder in Children Usha Pinakin Dave, PhD; Sunila Rajeev Dingankar, MA; Vinod Swaroop Saxena, MD; Joshua Allan Joseph, MVSc; Bharathi Bethapudi, MVSc; Amit Agarwal, PhD; Venkateshwarlu Kudiganti, MD