This is pretty much where I am. I can only conclude that life gives you hard choices sometimes, and feeling fulfilled is sometimes only possible at the serious expense of other very important things. Personally, I have my Christian faith to help me with this, knowing that this life is not all there is. Otherwise it would sometimes be depressing to the point of despair honestly. I don't know why some people have to make harder choices than others, but it's a reality. We're all coming from different places. I personally do not have a choice available to me that would be peachy for everyone (DH, myself and children). Huge compromises have to be made somewhere.

As far as free or low cost activities, free meals and enriching things for kids, those are great if you have a parent who cares enough to sign the child up. I would have benefited from some of those things but I didn't know how to sign myself up as a kid and no adult in my life cared enough to help. I guess working or not, financially struggling or not, a parent who actually cares and parents makes a big difference.

I would be interested in a possible spinoff from this. I wonder how many of us are first or second generation SAHMs or working outside the home Moms. I am a first generation SAHM. My mom briefly, and begrudgingly stayed home for short periods when she was with my dad. After she left him when I was 8, she was a working full time single mom, and the way that she was doesn't do any favors for any negative stereotypes about kids in single mom households. I came home to an empty apartment and watched TV for hours. Dinner was often non-existent. I often went many days without so much as exchanging a few words with my mom (her choice... too occupied with the boyfriends). So I guess it's not hard to connect those dots. That's at least one big part of my choices with regard to this subject today.

As far as being a valid economic choice it is getting harder and harder each passing year. I know many women do it because their husbands make decent money but some of us make huge sacrifices to do. Being a one very-modest-income family, and being a SAHM, I in no way feel like I am doing what is normal or expected or supported. But I do it because my time being present and available with my kids is worth more than any job I can think of.

I provide childcare, education and manage many household matters, for example, and it is seen as invalid by some people because they happen to be my own kids. If I were getting paid to do it for someone else's kids/ household or they were getting paid to do it for mine, it would all of a sudden be seen as valid to these same people. Getting paid = valid to some people, I guess.

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It just goes to show that people are different and what works for some may not work for others. If you can handle not eating breakfast and it helps your goals, forget what "they" say and go for it! When I don't have breakfast I overeat later. I've lost 30 lbs in the last year (at the top end of normal weight for my height now) eating breakfast every day. Avoiding carbs and getting plenty of good fats is the big thing for me.

It seems like some moms call their 3 year old a toddler when they are trying to hang on to the littleness. Especially if it's their last child.

I like H & M camisoles because they have adjustable straps like a bra. I adjust the straps so that they come up higher and eliminate cleavage situations. I wear them under my shirts pretty much every day. They are long too eliminating muffin top exposure.

My thought is that happiness, depression and medicating ourselves is complicated and always has been. In my experience medication is not some magical solution. Every depression med I've been on came with some awful side effect. Sometimes people decide it's worth putting up with if it makes it easier to want to go on living. Sometimes not. General health, nutrition, past trauma and circumstances in a person's life are absolutely huge and with all the time and energy it takes just to survive, relatively few people have the resources to spend hours at a counselor, let alone find one that's actually a good fit. When people say "you need counseling" it's like, ok, that's the easy suggestion. Easier said than done in real life.

Love/ hate. I am doing it mainly because it's the right thing to do for our particular journey, not because it's easy, it's not. The way I see it is that it's very hard, very important work. Some of the good is that I'm an INFJ who longs for meaning much more than money. Also DH is like the world's most supportive, loyal, stress-free, easy going guy who often believes in what I'm doing as a SAHM more than me. That is huge. I am thankful I don't have to deal with a DH who looks down on what I do, or who holds his bread-winner powers over me in some way. I would not be a SAHM in such a scenario. That said, being poor sucks, lol. I am in no way a SAHM because we can afford it or because the general circumstances are favorable. We live in a semi-ghetto area. It's no Leave it to Beaver over here. Gangster rap wafting through the windows, beer cans blowing down the street, etc. And because of that I think it adds to what is already an alienating profession (SAHM). I am the weird white lady with no job in my neighborhood. I sometimes go into a spiral of disillusionment feeling like I'm only here because my husband and kids can't fire me. And because I've only had low paying, easy-to-get jobs in my life, AND I've been fired a good number of times, I sometimes think I'm just not good at anything, so that's why I'm here. Sorry if it sounds depressing. I just think about these things a lot.

I can definitely relate. We live in TX now and I can't comprehend the TX pride. I guess it comes with having grown up here, or maybe from people who can afford to live in a nice area. We came here because of an opportunity, and also because of the lower cost of living, but at this point I realize the lower cost of living is misleading and that the areas that bring it down are places no one would actually want to be, and the nice parts are not affordable at all. I just try to tell myself this is where God has us right now for reasons that do not seem understandable to me much of the time. Personally I left southern California as a young adult amid recovering from drug addiction and my (divorced) parents doing their own thing including one of them moving to Europe to meet some love interest from the internet. It seems there was forces beyond my control pushing me out, and moving back is not an easy thing when one's job transferability is basically non-existant and options are very risky with young children to care for, and very modest income to work with. I look back with probably rose colored glasses to an extent though. And I probably wouldn't appreciate California had I never left. But I do often wish I could have stayed somewhere where I somewhat fit in. I do not fit in here. But it helps meeting people who have moved from CA which seems to be pretty common everywhere since CA cost of living is generally very high pushing people out.

I can't really speculate on the reason but it does happen. It's not unheard of. As much publicity as anti-gayness gets, in some circles there is quite a lot of acceptance and even enhanced social status that being gay comes with in real life. David Bowie once remarked in an interview that he was a "closeted heterosexual" for a long time, and that people thinking he was gay helped his image.

I've had a somewhat similar run-in at Walmart. I had my 1 year old with me and was very distracted and possibly headed for the newly opened check out when I should have been aware of another lady. She was very angry. I said I was sorry and she said "No you're not!". I was pretty shaken up. She was staring me down with her hand on her hip like she was about to do something to me. I left feeling like I had killed one of her family members. I guess you can never underestimate people's ability to get highly upset over trivial matters.

I'm out of the loop with recent shows but always thought Malcolm in the Middle was/ is brilliant. It's on Netflix instant.

Thanks so much, all. I know I may be getting ahead of myself with my oldest being 7 years old and all. But it's how I am to ponder the big picture and let it motivate me. I would be crushed if my kids had the type of relationship I have with each of my parents. And trust me I'm not trying to blame them for everything. It's just messy, fractured relationships for many reasons. For example my mom kinda stopped parenting when she left my dad when I was a young child. It's hard to respect someone who you grew up listening to having drunk / high sex with boyfriends while you were trying to go to sleep as a child. Stuff like that. I want to be someone my kids can respect and admire. I want to parent them when necessary and befriend them when necessary. It's a lot of work and sobering to think of the vulnerability involved.

I want to believe this is possible. Do you have a good and enjoyable relationship with your parents and/ or adult children? I have little to no personal experience with this. But in trying to change the pattern I am making choices that reflect my huge commitment to my children. This is not without sacrifice of course, and when I read some of another thread on here about how parenting adult children is the hardest and most painful, it fills me with a sort of dread. Is it basically a pipe dream to have some sort of payoff in parenting when they grow up? Is it pain and sacrifice all the way through? They make you sleep deprived and frazzled when they're babies/ toddlers, and then just grow up to break your heart constantly? It's depressing. I know there are no guarantees. But I want to hear that a good parent to adult-child relationship is possible.

Again, thank you everyone. The mind games are already somewhat in effect and I anticipate, as someone mentioned, that it could get worse. My dad and his wife mentioned how his knees and other things are going bad, he's getting old, we don't know how much longer he'll be around etc, all he wants to do is see me and my kids, how he cares about me... Meanwhile 24 hours earlier he was yelling at me on the phone about all the "stupid sh*t" I do. I guess the fact that his wife puts up with this makes him think others will too. Does he ever just wonder though why no one likes him (wife aside) and he basically has no friends and strained relationships with his kids all around? I do get twinges of guilt. He is getting older (70's) but they almost make it sound like he has dementia or something, so his behavior can be excused and that's not true. He acts exactly like he's always acted and his memory is just fine. How else could he remember the taco thing and all my other minor offenses over the years? To some extent I wonder if it's good to let some things pass due to his age and obvious issues and damage from his past but should people just be allowed to have zero control over their behavior? Maybe there's some old school, old country mentality like you could get treated like complete and utter poop but you just deal with it because having family members in your life is non negotiable. I refuse to believe that he's too old to change. At this point his age is more of an excuse it seems. Besides, isn't not giving up on someone a good thing? I mean, I am giving up on him in a sense... I'm giving up on acting like everything is ok. Isn't it good to not put up with their awful behavior and want better for them?

Well my dad actually called today. I want to say thank you to all of you who helped give me some needed perspective and strngthen my backbone. He and his wife called me on speaker phone and asked if I could come visit by myself, without DH and kids since it would be a nice break for me and more affordable. I was shaking and sweating because I knew I had to stand up to him. I politely told him that the relationship we have is not strong enough for things like me visiting them. I told him I don't think it's normal or ok for him to be so rude and disrespectful all the time, cursing and insulting me and fixating on my offenses to him and his wife. His wife chimed in with a little lecture about accepting him for who he is, how he's not going to change and how he's like that with everyone. I said that's fine for her to feel that way but I just don't agree that it's ok. I told them there's a reason they only see us twice a decade. I said we would visit if we could pay for it ourselves (not going to happen any time soon). It's bittersweet. I don't like confrontation, but I don't like my DH, kids and I being treated like garbage in the name of some fantasy about having a caring and involved grandparent. It feels good to say the truth. How he acts is not normal or ok.

I truly appreciate the input, everyone. Yes, my dad could be described as kind of a bully with no social skills. I always thought it was because he was from a different country... that's part of it, but definite;y not all of it. Speaking of which, when he came to the US he joined the Army right away and learned to speak English there, involving many curse words and foul language that he just never let go of. He can't express himself in English without cursing. Like I said there are many more ways that he is aggressively nitpicky about things, the taco thing is one example and I don't have time for more right now. He also likes to lecture me about how I do such stupid things in life, like our recent move to a different state that he says "was stupid". He loves to talk trash bout DH too. As far as me mentioning a number of very serious issues off hand, this is my life and I don't know any different. This stuff doesn't just happen in TV or movies. And I know that people mean well when they suggest counseling. I've been in a few different forms of counseling off and on over the years but it's not as easy as people sometimes make it sound. Counseling requires time, money and childcare. As far as counseling with my dad (over video conference or whatever) he would probably laugh hard if I suggested it. He just thinks I'm a PITA and that's all there is to the "problem". This is not a person you can reason with or who really cares what you say. Anyway, thanks again everyone. I am learning about what is acceptable and what boundaries to lay down and how. It will probably be a lifelong process.

Lol, that makes me sound pretty good. In real life I am so far behind all these women around me, at church, homeschooling, marriage, financially, daily productivity. But honestly the people whose backgrounds that are the most similar to mine are living out their lives in tragic ways. I credit God's grace as the reason I am doing anything good and right these days because it's no stretch whatsoever that I should be dead, in jail or at least with a troublesome criminal record, hiv positive, a stripper etc. Many people around me in real life look at me/ DH and probably think we are a bit loser-y but they don't even know the half of it how far I've come, and I guess they don't need to know.

Honestly, this makes my day. Because sometimes it seems like all this awful stuff I've done/ have done to me/ lived through all amounts to pointless hardships. I get discouraged thinking nothing good has or will come out of it and that I'm just a screwed up lady trying to live a normal life now, finding it hard to relate to others since many who have been where I am are not living normal lives now. But this is like a hug from God. Not to sound dramatic but really.

I tend to agree with that assessment of abuse. Maybe I chose the wrong wording. I was molested (repeatedly forced against threats of violence to preform sex acts) as a child (by someone who is not my dad) and there is no doubt that's abuse. It's had deep and wide waves of damage in my life. It also angers me when people are quick to lump in any undesirable encounter in the same category as that. But my perception is also probably pretty warped. I am trying to learn what is normal and acceptable. I guess my topic title should be more like "how normal/ acceptable is this?"

Yeah, this is a whole 'nother topic. I'm quite sure my dad has severe PTSD and other issues. He was born in a country and at a time that was very badly affected by the Nazis. He is impenetrable though. You can't tell him anything. He knows everything and everyone is stupid. Getting help for him would be one heck of a challenge.

Yeah, that. I want a grandparent experience for my kids. I am hanging on to the idea of a loving, supportive, kind, enjoyable extended family experience. It's just so far from reality. I guess it's hard for me to accept. When I see friend's parents be so sweet and loving with their kids, I feel like I'm burning up with envy. Some people have no idea how good they have it in that regard.