.

Thank you for understanding. I am definitely NOT angry or trying to be condescending (one must be careful when reading tone INTO another's typed words). Again, let me reitirate that I do NOT think teachers or principals or really ANYONE for that matter should be trying to FORCE religion down anyone's throat. But I also don't believe that someone (from ANY religion) saying a prayer in front of you will damage your psyche or your self-esteem or your own personal religious beliefs (or lack thereof). And if it is distressful for you to hear another's prayers you might want to consider thinking of the prayer as just words if it helps you get by and keeps you from getting angry and indignant and filing lawsuits. And I have offered my example of what I see and hear every day in another country as proof positive that one who is a devout follower of one religion CAN endure the prayers of others on a DAILY basis without running to the courthouse and complaining. In fact, I think it enriches my life to be surrounded with people of different faiths and seeing them expressing their faith even if I don't agree with it. It is a rich cultural experience and not an OFFENSIVE one if you choose to see it that way. But if you'd rather spend your time being angry about it, that is your choice as well but I feel bad for you. Life is too short. Hope that clears it up.

I thought TDVC was hilarious and A&D was pretty good so curiosity will get the best of me and I will get it. :D

Nope. You were definitely trying to bring the "Oh, you only feel that way about OTHER people's religions" angle in ... when really, all I've talked about in this thread is that we should just stop getting so darn OFFENDED by other people's religions. And if taking their prayers as just "words" helps that effort along then so be it. Maybe it would clear up some of the court dockets as well.

I am super impressed. CONGRATS!!!!!!!

I appreciate it and I'll take it as prayers (and not just words). But don't try to twist my words. I don't appreciate it.

I am exactly the same way. Now I don't even bother with them and just give the stuff away to start with. Saves me the trouble of setting up the sale! :D

nice try. I have not said what I choose to do in seeing these as just words versus prayers. I merely pointed out what SOME may choose to do (you know, in an effort to not walk around offended all the time). But I suppose they could choose to sue people instead.

If you think that teenagers are the least bit intimidated by their teachers or would hesitate to speak their mind about this topic (or any topic really) then you have not been inside a public high school in a while. I taught high school for over a decade and teens these days are anything but shrinking violets. You can't even coerce a teen into doing their homework assignment much less coerce them to pray if they don't want to.

A person can CHOOSE to be highly offended if someone of a differing religion prays in front of them or they can CHOOSE to see them as just words and not a "hex" placed upon you and let it go for goodness sake.

I find it disingenuous that people believe it to be so honorable and in the best interest of the nation to sue to have the 10 commandments taken down but I have not heard of lawsuits banning Victoria's Secret billbords. Why are we so RABIDLY against one but find no fault with the other? Because one is located on government-owned property and the other is not? Seriously? So it isn't about the prayer or the billboard...it's about who owns the property where it takes place? :001_huh:

When Harry Met Sally Only You

And in my public school employee's union, we got "duty-free" lunch periods.

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I watched my best friend go through this exact scenario. It was awful. I am so sorry. :grouphug:

I didn't say it was OK. In my original post I even said he should lose his job but I could never accept a PRISON SENTENCE for this. And at the heart of the matter, for me, is our tendency to get so offended over everything that we sue everyone for everything. And maybe it's because I am living in a new culture where people from all different religions live side by side...not in perfect harmony...but without trying to force the other one to STOP being what they are. On one single street you will see a christian church, a mosque, a buddhist temple, a hindu temple, etc. You will hear calls to prayer, see altar-type things with offerings to buddha sitting outside as you pass by homes and businesses, religious festivals abound and block traffic all the time, businesses and schools are closed for various religious holidays and no one gets upset. People wear whatever religious paraphanelia and clothing they want wherever they want and no one bats an eye. I see police officers, paid for with everyone's tax dollars, stop what they are doing and get out their prayer mats when the call to prayer is made and no one sues the police department because they are praying on tax dollar hours. No one here is suing to have all the altars to buddha in public places taken down (and no one defaces them either like you read about people defacing nativity scenes in the U.S.)...they wouldn't dare. It would be so disrespectful. No one is suing to have the muslim public calls to prayer banned. This doesn't mean that all the groups are perfect and love each other perfectly. They do not and there are social issues between them. But they do respect everyone's right to their religion and do not try to stop each other from expressing that wherever they feel led. And that is the difference between "freedom OF religion" and "freedom FROM religion". I would rather learn to live peaceably among all the other religions and expression of those religions than live in a religious vacuum.

The room was filled with people who helped make this project happen. The leaders of the meeting wanted to thank them and they did so in a way that was the most meaningful way they knew how...they prayed blessings and thanks. Now maybe the people in the room do not believe in God but if someone chooses to honor you and they use the most meaningful way that they know of to do it (asking their God to bless these people), I would feel HONORED not "co-erced" or "infringed upon". I have friends who are missionaries. They were visiting a village that was very remote and they brought much needed medicine and food to this village. To show their gratitude, the village (not christian) prayed THEIR way of praying to THEIR gods, did their tribal dances to THEIR gods, and even slaughtered and roasted several chickens in honor of my friends even though food is so scarce that this was a monumental expense for them. And my friends are also vegetarians. Now what should they have done in this situation? Turned their backs and walked away? Gotten unbelievably offended that these people would DARE to offer up prayers and rituals of thanks to their OWN gods instead of to the christian god? Scorned them? No. They smiled, choked down the meat when offered to them, and thanked them for the blessings and honor bestowed on them. Because they have class and compassion and care for their fellow man. The tribal people were NOT trying to convert them just as these principals were NOT trying to convert their audience. But to offer such a prayer of blessing (no matter what religion it comes from) on a group of people is an HONOR not an OFFENSE.

I am a slightly crunchy conservative. I cried when Clinton was elected and again when Obama was elected. I want clean air, and a clean earth, but I also want more personal responsibility and less government interference. We are pretty conservative christians but kids have seen the HP movies. I don't own any denim jumpers, I am a working mom, and I still believe the Bible is literal. I don't know where I fit sometimes.

That is a very good question. There are things that we, as believers, are compelled to do, like offering a blessing and prayer of thanks to God for a new building that will serve the children of the school...prayers of blessing for those who may have donated to the cause...prayers of thanks to the workers who built it... Prayers like this are not meant to "proselytize" and even if you don't believe in God, how can your heart be so hard that if someone prays to the God they believe in to bless YOU for your help you get offended and want to put them in jail? I live in a country populated by muslims, buddhists, hindus and others. When our christian school children from our christian school here gathered up and delivered: ¼ ton of rice 32 kilos of powdered milk 50 liters of cooking oil 32 kilos of Milo 6 bags of onions 8 bags of garlic A whole lot of love to a very poor muslim community and they were so grateful and they were offering prayers (out loud) to their God, prayers of thanks, prayers of blessing over us and our christian children...all muslim prayers... and we felt so happy to have helped them and to be the object of their muslim prayers of blessing and thanks. We did NOT leave there talking about "How dare they express thanks to us christians with muslim prayers. I am so OFFENDED!" Can't we extend a little graciousness to one another? Take things in the spirit it was meant? Not jump to be offended so easily?

Well, I guess we just differ on this one. I think our overcrowded prisons should be saved for actual criminals...you know...people who do things that harm others. So yes, I am celebrating that no one's tax dollars will be spent incarcerating two men for praying. ymmv.

http://www.earnedmedia.org/libc0917.htm They were cleared of all charges! WOO HOO!

Update on #10 http://edition.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/09/17/florida.school.prayer/index.html They violated a district policy, so suspend them, fire them, whatever you feel good about doing...but jail time? Seriously?

I have similar heart issues and I am on Coreg (Carvedilol) which is a calcium channel blocker. I could not go on a beta blocker because I have VERY low blood pressure and beta blockers lower it even further. It works pretty well but paired with a low dose of Paxil is perfect and I feel great!

No cotton pickin' way. But I am overprotective and proud of it. :D

I just realized that we have been without cable TV for over two months now and it hasn't even fazed us! We have always had cable but when we got to Malaysia we decided to skip it as an experiment, Two months later I realized that my kids haven't asked for it one single time and dh and I didn't even notice. Woo Hoo! To be fair, we do HAVE a TV and we have watched a couple of movies since we got here. But I was nervous to get rid of it and now I have no idea why. ??