DS has perfected the art of procrastinating with assignments he doesn't like/want to do. Usually I'm so busy that I don't keep up enough to know he's not done the assignment until I have time to catch up and realize it's not complete. It's a source of angst in our house but I've hit a point where my stand response is "I don't care. Do it anyway." I also tell him, "Do you think a PS teacher would let you get away with this?" (No.) "Then why should I?" He never has an answer for that.

Yes he is, he's just not interested in the areas they typically offer.

Maryanne, you didn't step on toes. DH has fibromyalgia. He is willing to help homeschool, just not always able to physically do so. And yes, DS does take advantage of the times when dad is napping or just "out of it" to goof off and not do his school work or chores. If DH is feeling really bad that day, then he will usually let it happen. There have been plenty of nights I've come home and asked DS for XYZ, comment that it's incomplete, and then he gets in trouble with DH b/c he told DH it was done. DH doesn't like being made to feel embarrassed or that I'm blaming him, so he's been working much harder to keep a closer eye on DS to make sure he doesn't get away with as much. That's why he's also (for right now) working more in sync with my efforts to do what needs to be done. I still need to put together my Mockingbird guide for DS to start on Tuesday, but with both of them reading/listening to the book hopefully there will be more discussion about it.

:grouphug: I am so sorry Rose.

I have not looked into tech school classes because he's never expressed interest in attending anything like that. Our DE is only state-funded if you're a PS state so we'd be paying $$$ out of pocket. The CC has a pre-approved list of DE classes, but kids can request to take other courses so it may be possible for him to take remedial classes. Technically I can give him DE credit no matter what he takes b/c I'm not held to any graduation requirements other than what he's going to need to get into his chosen college. The website isn't clear on what courses they can take or how much homeschoolers pay and I had already requested clarification on those.

Possibly. He can certainly pick apart and debate the stuff he watches with DH well enough. There's definitely a disconnect between the ability to discuss it out loud and write it on paper. We're just not sure if it's a reluctance to write in general, problems making the mental/written connection, lack of knowledge, or something else entirely. That sounds like it would be wonderful but, alas, my kid isn't a LOTR fan. Weird, I know. ;) That's a possibility. Thanks for the suggestion!

We use the DIVE CDs for science. DS has to take notes on his lectures, write out vocabulary words, complete a review question worksheet after the lectures, and then write up the answers to the video labs. He has a written exam every 8 weeks. We don't do any extra science writing.

I feel I should add that DS has been called into the youth ministry field. With his goal set to become a youth pastor, he will need these skills in order to write sermons or lead Bible studies with others. If it was something I could fluff off and do on a cursory level, I would, but I don't feel I can without doing him a disservice towards his career goals. He struggles with putting together paragraphs so we do lots of short answer questions to help strengthen that process. Once we get to a point where we both feel comfortable with the short paragraphs we should be able to move on to writing short essays.

I would love to get him tested for LDs, believe me I really would. DH feels very strongly against the practice of psychologically labeling people for whatever reason. I do continue to work on it, but it's a very slow process and I have to wait until I have the right words to speak at the right time to speak them. Like someone said early in the thread, I don't need diagnoses to learn how to help them. I do my research and implement whatever I can that I think will help. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't and we go back to research mode until we find something else to try. I will not, however, run the risk destroying my marriage to go against my husband's wishes. FWIW, I don't think any LDs he might have is causing problems with the analysis process, just possibly the part of getting it from his brain onto paper.

I was one of those kids, so was DH and DS20. While I enjoyed English, I don't like analyzing a book to the Nth degree, which is why we don't dig that deep. DS is an average student and we're all okay with that. He can excel when he chooses to and sometimes he does. It just depends on his mood on that particular day. We dig deep enough that I know DS knows what he's talking about. Writing out analysis questions in study guides is our compromise in lieu of writing papers b/c that's a bigger battle we're still working on. I'm too critical when it comes to teaching him writing and until I can find a way to outsource it somewhere, we compromise. Had he taken the notes as he was supposed to and combined his notes with our discussion, he would have had absolutely no problem coming up with decent answers to the questions. Probably not SN answers, which I wasn't expecting that level of anyway, but definitely something much more substantial than what was submitted. I think part of the problem was that DH hasn't ever read Gatsby and so he couldn't talk to him about it. Even if he is talking to his friends about it, that doesn't negate the fact that he should have been able to give well thought out answers and chose not to do so.

Possibly, but I think it's a chance we're going to have to take. If he truly doesn't remember learning or didn't learn/grasp lit analysis skills in 7th or 8th grade like he says, then my expectations are too high b/c I'm expecting him to use skills he doesn't have and I haven't taught. If it simply serves as a review session to remind him that he does know how to do this and simply needs to apply it correctly then it still wasn't time wasted. I think I'm going to have him fill out Glencoe's study guide and then flesh it out with oral discussion questions a la SWB. I can also check out an audio version from the library, which DH thinks might help if he can listen to it while he's following along with the book. I do wonder if that's contributing to the issue. Even if there aren't LDs, there are at least some EF issues that come with the ADHD. Writing has always been a struggle for him. I remember him being in 3rd/4th/5th grade - whatever year it started - and being completely paranoid about him being able to pass the TAKS writing test. He ended up doing quite well on it and I stopped worrying b/c the teachers convinced me everything was fine. Fast forward to last year at home and it became apparent that he passed the TAKS tests because he'd been taught the "give 'em what they want" game but writing an actual paper of some sort was an entirely different beast. Outlines were a horrible battle until I realized his brain works in full sentences and not keywords and phrases. Summarizing was another horrible battle b/c he simply can't summarize. I took it to be he couldn't as in he didn't know how, but in reality it really is that he simply can't summarize right now. His brain just doesn't work that way. I cannot even tell you how long I spent on our first WWS summary trying to get him to understand that summaries don't need all the little details, but to him, it's every bit as important to know WHERE they met the man as it is to know THAT they met the man, even when the location doesn't impact the summary one bit. I ended up outsourcing writing to my dad (a retired tech writer) but that fell by the wayside after my dad got sick and I haven't figured out what to do instead. English - grammar, writing, vocab, spelling, etc. - has always come naturally to me and I simply cannot wrap my mind around how to decently teach it to someone that just doesn't get it. I'd really like to outsource to something online, but can't find anything I can afford right now.

Hmmm... According to DS, he *didn't* do any significant literature analysis in middle school, despite the fact he was in Pre-AP classes, and is agreeable to going back to the basics to pick up what he has apparently missed. Not quite sure I believe that either, but if he's not going to complain about going backwards then I'm most certainly not going to argue with him about it! Now I'm off to find a middle-school study guide for To Kill a Mockingbird to start him off with.

This is exactly our dilemma. It's definitely a power struggle, and one I don't know how to easily correct. Most of his friends are of differing ages, so I don't really know what they've read or haven't read. He's got a couple friends that will gladly talk books with him if they've read them but it would be difficult to get everyone to read the book as a group. DH and I cornered DS earlier tonight while we were driving to a friend's soccer game. He did admit that he knew a PS teacher would fail him for turning in work like he gave me, but didn't give a reason why he thinks he can get away with it at home. He did just see what I'm typing and apologized after finding out it was my rant. He said he turns in incomplete work b/c he doesn't understand it, to which I replied that he doesn't bother to ask for clarification either. And he really can't use the excuse that I'm not available b/c (1) I've been off work today and thus at home and readily available to answer questions and (2) he knows he can call, text, or email me while I am at work to clarify. He does it all the time. So his excuse really doesn't fly with me.

I am glad to know I'm not the only one with a kiddo like this. I think you and OE are correct though in that I'm just not asking the right questions to get the answers I'm looking for. Even though we discuss before and during enough that he *should* be able to answer the questions post-reading, he's not. Whether it's b/c of laziness or lack of note taking or just the fact he's a stubborn 16 yo boy, I don't know. We spent 3 weeks analyzing short stories at the beginning of school year. I think part of it is he's getting spring fever and part of it is just being tired of school in general. We've also done a lot more analyzing this year than last so that might be part of the issue, too. Besides Gatsby and the short stories, we've done 3 Progeny Press guides and a play, and read 2 biographies. Still scheduled is poetry (which I'm going to push to summer), 1 more novel analysis that I need to rethink my process for, 3 non-fiction books to read and 2 more plays. He refuses to write in books, but we have stacks of post-it notes laying around. Maybe I can encourage him to use those for the next book. We talk about everything to help him with the writing process, but he's required to write out at least some of the literature guides b/c he needs as much practice writing as possible. We've finally gotten sentences down for the most part and are working on writing decent paragraphs, thus the reason he is supposed to be writing paragraph answers. He only had 4 questions plus a list of symbols, which I thought was quite an easy assignment. Oh believe me, he knows that game very well. To well unfortunately, because he plays it on a daily basis. We're actually working hard to stop that kind of attitude or at least teach him when it's appropriate to use it. He knew exactly what kind of answers were expected; he chose not to provide them. I do check, and if he's not done what's required then he loses tv/game privileges and I make him go do it. But if I'm not home to follow through, DH usually doesn't enforce it. That's an entirely different issue.

Good options. Maybe I'll see if I can get him interested in any of them. To answer the question though, we were discussing it b/c he asked to discuss it, to analyze it, because his friends in PS have or will and he likes to be able to discuss it with them. Maybe he knows and just doesn't want to discuss it with mom and dad? I suppose that could be an option. All I do know is that I need to rethink my plans for the rest of the school year. Either find more detailed but simple questions and spoon-feed them to him by chapter or give up analyzing in favor of reading-only and let him bring discussions to us. We were supposed to do a poetry unit study next but I think I'll postpone that for summer work.

Dog - Abigail / Abby Cats - Rory (DH insists his real name is Oreo), Sgt Fluffy Boots / Sarge, Grayson / Gray DS & DILs cats are Ginger (Ginny) and Waffles

Actually, he did have the questions ahead of time and he was supposed to be making notes of brief examples and page numbers by his questions so he could go back and answer the questions. Every day I'd asked him what he read and he could tell me about the chapters so I knew he was reading it. I'd ask if he was making his notes - "No, but I'm going to go back through after I read it through the first time." I just sigh and tell him that's fine but he still needs to make notes while he's reading the first time. This is what he always does and what he always says, and what I always say. By the time he's done reading a book through the first time, he doesn't want to read it again, whether he liked it or not, and then proceeds to do a substandard assignment b/c of his own laziness in doing it correctly the first time around. I like the link and maybe I'll have to try questions like that again. We got away from it last year b/c all he'd do is whine about how there were too many questions and it was stupid and "this" is why he hated English in PS. I think he just hates English class, period. LOL I have been on the special needs board before but I lurk more than I post there. The issue isn't that he's not ready to analyze at a high school level, he can and does analyze very well when he wants to. He can analyze the dickens out of anything when he's in the mood to do so. In fact, some of the analytical discussions he's had with DH over Biblical, political, and social issues just amaze me. But that's what interests him so he's willing to put the effort into it. I just don't know how to get him to put that level of effort into every day assignments that he feels are stupid and pointless.

Yes, we've discussed the book and he knows his answers need to be longer. The exact instructions for this assignment was "Explain your answers using full sentences and details from the book." We go through this every.single.time. I've dropped my expectations as much as I possibly can to be at a high school level and if I drop them any lower we'll be backtracking. I've done it before and I'll do it again if I have to, but it's frustrating to both of us b/c I know he knows this and he hates it when he thinks I'm treating him like a "stupid little kid". Part of the issue is that he doesn't want to get a GED b/c he knows a diploma is looked upon more favorably. But yet he doesn't want to do the work required to get the diploma. It's like we're in this never ending circular battle and all we're doing is spinning our wheels. We've definitely had this problem too. Sometimes his answers are completely out of the box as far as the answer sheet is concerned, but at the same time they're so logically correct that you can't say he got it wrong or that he doesn't understand what he's talking about. That's why it's so frustrating when he turns in stuff like he did this morning. I know he CAN do it, he just won't. He knows that 3-5 sentence answers are what I'm looking for. If he can efficiently answer the question in less than that, then fine, I'd gladly accept it. But you can't tell me "he's a reliable storyteller if he knows what he's talking about" and not back it up with examples and think I won't mark off points or make you redo it. Yes, I do. I went through and put together a lengthy list of American Lit novels in decade order then let him pick which ones he wanted to analyze. He also got to pick which ones he'd do using a PP guide for and which ones would be mom-made, as he puts it. Here's his other answers, just for comparison. Q: How does the geography of the novel dictate its themes and characters? What role does setting play in The Great Gatsby? A: The geography of the novel helps tell about their lives and lifestyle. The setting(s) show what the character's have been through. Q: How does Gatsby represent the American dream? What does the novel have to say about the condition of the American dream in the 1920s? In what ways do the themes of dreams, wealth, and time relate to each other in the novel's exploration of the idea of America? A: "Gatsby" is the "American dream" due to the fact that he's sweet, rich, and successfull. Everyone wanted to be rich or own land. It relates to the themes of dreams, wealth, and the time by explaining what it's like to have "achieved" that dream. Forgot to add that my initial response to his answers varied between "Really??!" and "duh."

Oh I don't expect fabulous answers. I'd just appreciate it if he'd put at least a little effort into his answers. And yes, he will be fixing his paper.

There aren't any vocational options where we are except CC or a college-type tech school. I'm looking into online classes but most are out of our budget. Co-ops aren't an option either because I'm the only driver and unable to participate due to work.

Feel free to commiserate, agree, argue my logic, offer advice, or whatever else you want. It won't bother me b/c I just need a place to vent some frustration with someone else that will understand. DS is 16 and a sophomore. We've been homeschooling since halfway through 8th grade/13yo. I work full time and try to teach as much as possible b/c DH, while home, just isn't physically capable of being a FT educator. I know DS has ADHD, probably combo type (self-diagnosed but you could almost write the DSM criteria based off him). I strongly suspect we're also dealing with dyscalculia and maybe even some type of processing disorder. Unfortunately, any type of evaluations and formal diagnoses are NOT an option b/c of DH's personal views on the subjects.. There's absolutely nothing I can do to change DH's mind on this matter and believe me, this was my hill to die on for years. All it ever lead to was arguments and tears and a very conflicted marriage. Yes, it does DS a disservice and it makes things much harder than they need to be but I work with DS as much as possible to teach him tips that will help him be successful and don't allow him to use any of it as an excuse. But it's days like today that I feel like a complete and total failure. PS is not an option and I know that even at my worst he's getting a better education at home than he would at PS, but I am very seriously wondering if it wouldn't be better to just let him get his GED and find a job and be done with the stress homeschooling puts on us. So what's the source of my emotional outbreak today? We're using SparkNotes for a study guide on The Great Gatsby. The question taken directly from SN: "What is Nick like as a narrator? Is he a reliable storyteller, or does his version of events seem suspect? How do his qualities as a character affect his narration?" DS's answer (grammar/spelling mistakes are his): "A good one; he is a reliable story teller if he knows what he's talking about. His quallities don't really affect his ability to narrate." SN's answer can be found here. *SIGH* Now, I know SN is an ideal answer and most teens probably wouldn't give that type of answer. But I know he knows how to analyze a character b/c I remember him learning this in school. He hasn't forgotten he just won't apply it to what he has to at home. It's not just English either; we have this battle with *everything* he's assigned in *every* subject. Having him talk about it instead of write it doesn't make it much easier. I think I'd have an easier time finding a needle in a haystack. Sometimes I feel like we need to go back to the very basics of the logic stage and start from scratch again. Sometimes I feel like I cut way too many corners just so we can check off the box and be done. I honestly don't feel like he's going to be ready for community college in 2 years. To be perfectly honest, I'm tired of the stress, the frustration, the arguments and fights, bribes and discussion. I'm tired of DS's apathy about it all. I'm tired of DH's inability to pull his own weight on what was ultimately HIS decision. I'm tired of feeling like I have to do it all because I just can't. I'm just tired of it all and I've reached a point where I really just don't care anymore. Maybe I just need to be the one to call it quits on my part and let him unschool from here on out. At some point he'll realize he can't pass a college entrance exam and get motivated on his own, right? Edited to remove quote per SWB request

This looks great. Thanks!

No there isn't. I'm signed up as a teacher and my son uses my login to complete his classes. It's easier this way because there's only one account for me to log into and it still tracks his quiz grades and overall progress. As of this morning, teacher accounts get 12 free months before the $20/mo begins.

Our 10th grade plan MATH: Geometry (Power Basics) HISTORY: American History (Notgrass Exploring America) ENGLISH: EG101.com/Daily Grams Vocabulary culled from reading American literature unit studies and PP guides still trying to find our way with writing SCIENCE: Integrated Chemistry & Physics (DIVE Science CD and internet textbook) FOREIGN LANGUAGE: American Sign Language 1 ELECTIVES: Christian Worldview (various resources) Informal Logic ACTIVITIES: church youth group church youth volunteer choir archery

8th - Algebra 1 & General Science (he was still in public school) 9th - Algebra 1 & Earth Science 10th - Geometry & Integrated Chem/Physics 11th - Consumer Math & Biology 12th - whatever he chooses